How do the powerhouse team's do it?

WildDawg · 11-09-2009, 02:10 PM

Teams like Highlands, Trinity, Bell, Boyle, St X, Danville, etc nearly every year put a great football team on the field. I know the immediate answer will be coaching but they need talent to win. How do they have such high powered teams every year? Does it start with youth league programs? Just curious what everyone's thought were on this.

William Muney · 11-09-2009, 02:59 PM

1. consistent coaching, not just the head man but great assistants as well

2. Hard work all year. Sure most teams work hard July-Nov. But the great teams go 50 weeks out of the year. (2 off for dead period)

3. They do the little things well, tackle, turnover ratio, special teams and etc.

4. They all have very coach able kids. How many superstars come from these schools? It is more team. Sure they have some talented players but they rarely break individual records. It is about the team.

Just my .02 worth. From watching the teams from Corbin back in the 70's and 80's. Bell in the 90's and today very closely.

**LeeCoUKFan** · 11-09-2009, 03:12 PM

For those kinda teams up in NKY football is a year round thing for them and they start the kids out young up there. The reason they always have great teams is because they have great weight room programs, the coaches teach the little things and perfect those first, and the high school coaches participate in all the different age leagues to promote and educate the younger players about what you have to do to get better and excel in the higher leagues, the coaches also usually include the younger kids at the high school games to get them interested and excited about playing when they get to high school.

**BellCoBobcats09** · 11-09-2009, 05:27 PM

Alot of your PRIVATE schools can recruit too dont forget that! Bell Co does GREAT every year considering they only dress about 50 players each year and cant RECRUIT while others are allowed. Thats what is wrong with High School sports now days. There rules aren't fair!

**EKUAlum05** · 11-09-2009, 05:53 PM

BellCoBobcats09 Wrote:Alot of your PRIVATE schools can recruit too dont forget that! Bell Co does GREAT every year considering they only dress about 50 players each year and cant RECRUIT while others are allowed. Thats what is wrong with High School sports now days. There rules aren't fair!

:yawn:

**EKUAlum05** · 11-09-2009, 06:04 PM

1. Having a system in place from top to bottom- The best of the best usually have a strong feeder system with knowledgable and enthusiastic coaches, they usually have a JV program, and they usually have a coaching staff who has implemented their beliefs and input into all levels.

2. Administrative Support- Never underestimate the value of having the school administration system support the program. All it takes is one administrator to undermine the entire direction of a program, conversely when the entire administration is behind you see very special things happen.

3. Community Support/Boosters- When the community supports a team the sense of pride kids develop instantly make them better in tough games, and more resilient after a tough loss. Additionally, when a coach doesn't have to worry about funding for his team it exponentially relieves pressure off his shoulders.

4. Strength and Conditioning- The best programs not only have a well defined strength and conditioning program, they typically have trained staff members to implement this program.It's amazing the difference between a team that is one step faster, 10 pounds stronger across the board, and half a step quicker.

5. Confidence and Experience- Your best teams are typically teams who win the close games and win the big games. They have a workman's attitude, they play within themselves, and even when they are trailing and things are not going their way, they still ahve confidence in their coaches and their teammates.

WildDawg · 11-09-2009, 06:20 PM

EKUAlum05 Wrote:1. Having a system in place from top to bottom- The best of the best usually have a strong feeder system with knowledgable and enthusiastic coaches, they usually have a JV program, and they usually have a coaching staff who has implemented their beliefs and input into all levels.

2. Administrative Support- Never underestimate the value of having the school administration system support the program. All it takes is one administrator to undermine the entire direction of a program, conversely when the entire administration is behind you see very special things happen.

3. Community Support/Boosters- When the community supports a team the sense of pride kids develop instantly make them better in tough games, and more resilient after a tough loss. Additionally, when a coach doesn't have to worry about funding for his team it exponentially relieves pressure off his shoulders.

4. Strength and Conditioning- The best programs not only have a well defined strength and conditioning program, they typically have trained staff members to implement this program.It's amazing the difference between a team that is one step faster, 10 pounds stronger across the board, and half a step quicker.

5. Confidence and Experience- Your best teams are typically teams who win the close games and win the big games. They have a workman's attitude, they play within themselves, and even when they are trailing and things are not going their way, they still ahve confidence in their coaches and their teammates.

Very good points. I also think talented kids want to play on talented teams with good coaching. So if Team A is medicore at best, and Team B has a great coach and a winning tradition. Why not go to the school 20 minutes down the road that gives you a better opportunity? I'm not sure how often this happens, but i'd be willing to beat it happens pretty often. You can't blame the kids for making that decision if it does indeed happen. The points you brought up are much more important, but I think this is something you can throw in with them. Good teams/good coaches attract good players.

WildDawg · 11-09-2009, 06:23 PM

BellCoBobcats09 Wrote:Alot of your PRIVATE schools can recruit too dont forget that! Bell Co does GREAT every year considering they only dress about 50 players each year and cant RECRUIT while others are allowed. Thats what is wrong with High School sports now days. There rules aren't fair!

Maybe the kids recruit the schools.

**nky** · 11-09-2009, 06:26 PM

BellCoBobcats09 Wrote:Alot of your PRIVATE schools can recruit too dont forget that! Bell Co does GREAT every year considering they only dress about 50 players each year and cant RECRUIT while others are allowed. Thats what is wrong with High School sports now days. There rules aren't fair!

Tired old argument. Who recuits? Name some of these private schools

backinblack2003 · 11-09-2009, 06:32 PM

BellCoBobcats09 Wrote:Alot of your PRIVATE schools can recruit too dont forget that! Bell Co does GREAT every year considering they only dress about 50 players each year and cant RECRUIT while others are allowed. Thats what is wrong with High School sports now days. There rules aren't fair!

I give you Bell fans credit, you know how to make a thread interesting........:popcorn:

**nky** · 11-09-2009, 06:46 PM

EKUAlum05 Wrote:1. Having a system in place from top to bottom- The best of the best usually have a strong feeder system with knowledgeable and enthusiastic coaches, they usually have a JV program, and they usually have a coaching staff who has implemented their beliefs and input into all levels.

2. Administrative Support- Never underestimate the value of having the school administration system support the program. All it takes is one administrator to undermine the entire direction of a program, conversely when the entire administration is behind you see very special things happen.

3. Community Support/Boosters- When the community supports a team the sense of pride kids develop instantly make them better in tough games, and more resilient after a tough loss. Additionally, when a coach doesn't have to worry about funding for his team it exponentially relieves pressure off his shoulders.

4. Strength and Conditioning- The best programs not only have a well defined strength and conditioning program, they typically have trained staff members to implement this program.It's amazing the difference between a team that is one step faster, 10 pounds stronger across the board, and half a step quicker.

5. Confidence and Experience- Your best teams are typically teams who win the close games and win the big games. They have a workman's attitude, they play within themselves, and even when they are trailing and things are not going their way, they still have confidence in their coaches and their teammates.

Some of the top programs even go into diet and what the athletes should be eating:popcorn:or not eating including supplements

5timechamp · 11-09-2009, 07:09 PM

nky Wrote:Some of the top programs even go into diet and what the athletes should be eating:popcorn:or not eating including supplements

High school coaches and players and supplements could be more interesting than recruiting. My two cents is this on the recruiting. If my son is a solid QB coming up through elementary school and middle school and he can go to our local school and have to fight for press coverage and playoff spots or he can go to a school that is recognized state wide and sometimes bigger than that its a no brainer. I cant blame the kids or parents. If your kid is athletic then put him in the school that gives him the best chance to succeed. :popcorn:

neerfan · 11-09-2009, 07:25 PM

5timechamp Wrote:High school coaches and players and supplements could be more interesting than recruiting. My two cents is this on the recruiting. If my son is a solid QB coming up through elementary school and middle school and he can go to our local school and have to fight for press coverage and playoff spots or he can go to a school that is recognized state wide and sometimes bigger than that its a no brainer. I cant blame the kids or parents. If your kid is athletic then put him in the school that gives him the best chance to succeed. :popcorn:

Easier said than done. Alot of talented players can not afford the private schools. but the schools will get you there if they want. And unfortunatly they are allowed to do this as they dont have a certain district that their players have to live in when the public schools are bound to districts to draw players from. This is an unfair advantage that the private schools have over the public schools and is the reason private schools should have to compete in a district of their own unless they want to quit recruiting and play by the same rules the public schools do. The Louisville private schools have kids from all over the area as well as some fom out of state I am sure. How is that fair to the rest.

BluegrassBuckeye · 11-09-2009, 07:30 PM

nky Wrote:Tired old argument. Who recuits? Name some of these private schools

That's like asking someone to give names of people who cheat on their taxes. It's common knowledge that they do it but it's hard to prove without an audit. Same with private schools and recruiting. Anyone who thinks that the top ones don't do it are kidding themselves. :Thumbs:

**nky** · 11-09-2009, 08:02 PM

neerfan Wrote:Easier said than done. Alot of talented players can not afford the private schools. but the schools will get you there if they want. And unfortunatly they are allowed to do this as they dont have a certain district that their players have to live in when the public schools are bound to districts to draw players from. This is an unfair advantage that the private schools have over the public schools and is the reason private schools should have to compete in a district of their own unless they want to quit recruiting and play by the same rules the public schools do. The Louisville private schools have kids from all over the area as well as some fom out of state I am sure. How is that fair to the rest.

and some county schools pull from across the county because of open enrollment.

**nky** · 11-09-2009, 08:03 PM

BluegrassBuckeye Wrote:That's like asking someone to give names of people who cheat on their taxes. It's common knowledge that they do it but it's hard to prove without an audit. Same with private schools and recruiting. Anyone who thinks that the top ones don't do it are kidding themselves. :Thumbs:

If it's common knowledge then report it to the state. Prove your case with evidence. If not don't make allegations because they're probably false

5timechamp · 11-09-2009, 08:09 PM

Im not picking on Belfry but they get kids that could go to Pike Central and a lot of kids out of WV. Their coach is a man of good character and I dont think he is out recruiting. But these kids know they can go to Belfry and compete for state championships. Cant blame em.

**nky** · 11-09-2009, 08:11 PM

5timechamp Wrote:Im not picking on Belfry but they get kids that could go to Pike Central and a lot of kids out of WV. Their coach is a man of good character and I dont think he is out recruiting. But these kids know they can go to Belfry and compete for state championships. Cant blame em.

Is Belfry a private school?

64black&gold · 11-09-2009, 08:39 PM

nky Wrote:and some county schools pull from across the county because of open enrollment.

Not every district has open enrollment or even more than one county high school.

Big Five-0- · 11-09-2009, 08:42 PM

BluegrassBuckeye Wrote:That's like asking someone to give names of people who cheat on their taxes. It's common knowledge that they do it but it's hard to prove without an audit. Same with private schools and recruiting. Anyone who thinks that the top ones don't do it are kidding themselves. :Thumbs:

Agree 100%

Bobcat_Dad · 11-09-2009, 08:48 PM

EKUAlum05 Wrote:1. Having a system in place from top to bottom- The best of the best usually have a strong feeder system with knowledgable and enthusiastic coaches, they usually have a JV program, and they usually have a coaching staff who has implemented their beliefs and input into all levels.

2. Administrative Support- Never underestimate the value of having the school administration system support the program. All it takes is one administrator to undermine the entire direction of a program, conversely when the entire administration is behind you see very special things happen.

3. Community Support/Boosters- When the community supports a team the sense of pride kids develop instantly make them better in tough games, and more resilient after a tough loss. Additionally, when a coach doesn't have to worry about funding for his team it exponentially relieves pressure off his shoulders.

4. Strength and Conditioning- The best programs not only have a well defined strength and conditioning program, they typically have trained staff members to implement this program.It's amazing the difference between a team that is one step faster, 10 pounds stronger across the board, and half a step quicker.

5. Confidence and Experience- Your best teams are typically teams who win the close games and win the big games. They have a workman's attitude, they play within themselves, and even when they are trailing and things are not going their way, they still ahve confidence in their coaches and their teammates.

IMO 2 and 3 are not that important, nice to have but not a necessity. Here at Bell Co. I think we struggle with 2 and 3. We have very little administrative support. We have the lowest paid asst. around and 1 of the smallest school funded budgets also for football.

As for community support that is not what you think it would be either. Thank goodness we do have the support of just a few businesses and fewer parents or they would be lucky to do anything as far as funding. W/O that select few parents Bell's program would be lucky to do any extra things for the players as far as meals and etc. :Clap:

GRIFFIN · 11-09-2009, 08:48 PM

EKUAlum05 Wrote:1. Having a system in place from top to bottom- The best of the best usually have a strong feeder system with knowledgable and enthusiastic coaches, they usually have a JV program, and they usually have a coaching staff who has implemented their beliefs and input into all levels.

2. Administrative Support- Never underestimate the value of having the school administration system support the program. All it takes is one administrator to undermine the entire direction of a program, conversely when the entire administration is behind you see very special things happen.

3. Community Support/Boosters- When the community supports a team the sense of pride kids develop instantly make them better in tough games, and more resilient after a tough loss. Additionally, when a coach doesn't have to worry about funding for his team it exponentially relieves pressure off his shoulders.

4. Strength and Conditioning- The best programs not only have a well defined strength and conditioning program, they typically have trained staff members to implement this program.It's amazing the difference between a team that is one step faster, 10 pounds stronger across the board, and half a step quicker.

5. Confidence and Experience- Your best teams are typically teams who win the close games and win the big games. They have a workman's attitude, they play within themselves, and even when they are trailing and things are not going their way, they still ahve confidence in their coaches and their teammates.

:1:

**EKUAlum05** · 11-09-2009, 09:11 PM

5timechamp Wrote:Im not picking on Belfry but they get kids that could go to Pike Central and a lot of kids out of WV. Their coach is a man of good character and I dont think he is out recruiting. But these kids know they can go to Belfry and compete for state championships. Cant blame em.

It's a two way street though. Pike Central has most definitely benefitted from kids who lived in Belfry's school district who chose to attend PC to get immediate playing time as well including two of the school's top rushers.

This next statement is not directed at 5timechamp. I feel alot of people throw the "R-word" around too loosely and confuse parents choosing to give their kids the best opportunity to excel. Recruiting is when a coach or someone directly associated with a school's athletic program directly interacts with a player with the sole purpose of them attending their school. I don't know whether it stems from jealousy or ignorance in most cases, but typically when that person is asked to name names that is whenissues arise.

I used to be naive about the topic myself, until a few very educated and well spoken Highlands fans set me straight some year's back. RECRUITING happens nowhere near as often as some fans would like to think. What does occur very often though is parent's taking advantage of the system on a completely independent decision.

I would go so far to say that at some point nearly every prominant program in this state has either had one or more of these:
1) A player attend a high school despite living in another district within the same county.
2) A player zoned for a county school attend an indepent school district or vice versa
3) A school near a state line have a player from another state choose to attend that school
4) A student's parent legitimately move them from a different county or state prior to their Freshman season
5) An athlete choose to transfer schools to play alongside friends they had made in some type of All-Star, AAU, or Youth league
6) A player choose to transfer schools because of a girlfriend :biggrin:
7) A player's parents choose to send their kid to an adjacent school so they can play immediately
8) A player's parents choose to send their child to play for a coach that they once played for themselves
9) A player's parents choose to send their child to a school district with a better academic record and/or better facilities.
10)A player may actually be in a different county, but the closest school is in another county or state.

neerfan · 11-09-2009, 09:18 PM

nky Wrote:and some county schools pull from across the county because of open enrollment.

Maybe but nothing about that is against the rules thats not really recruiting. The private schools cross the county lines and sometimes even the state lines. How is that fair? Not sure how many counties have open enrollment but I do not believe their are that many in Kentucky. Not sure though. I just feel that the private schools should have a district that they have to stay within just like the public schools do. Then maybe we would get a little mix up in the championship games instead of the same big private schools there all the time.

**EKUAlum05** · 11-09-2009, 09:25 PM

To further this...

BellCoBobcats09.

I will give you three scenario's...you tell me what you would do.

Scenario 1:
You are a single parent and your son is in 10th Grade. You accept a job in Middlesboro, which as part of your employment package, provides free rent at an apartment unit directly within the Middlesboro city limits. Your son is a very talented athlete who has played RB all his life, and it is clear that he has the talent to play at the next level and earn a scholarship with the right head coach. Do you send him to Middlesboro or Bell County?

Scenario 2:
You are an 8th Grade Student living in Harrogate, TN. Your 4 closest friends who you have grown up playing sports with all have parents who accepted a job at a new factory built off US119 in Bell County near the Bell/Knox County lines. Their parents have all moved within a mile of the factory and will be attending Bell County. Your parents tell you that they will gladly drive you to Bell every morning to attend school and pick you up if you want. Do you stay in Harrogate or attend Bell?

Scenario 3:
Your middle school coach is close personal friend of the family in Barbourville. You have played for him for three years and was his star QB. Recently, he got his teahcing certificate and was hired at Bell County to teach Math and take on a role as an assistant coach and possibly Dudley Hilton's replacement in a couple years (hypothetical). Meanwhile, Knox Central has just hired a brand new head coach who is going to run a completely different offense that is 100% run oriented where all the QB does is hand the ball off. Do you follow your coach or stay in the district you were assigned to?

**nky** · 11-09-2009, 09:29 PM

neerfan Wrote:Maybe but nothing about that is against the rules thats not really recruiting. The private schools cross the county lines and sometimes even the state lines. How is that fair? Not sure how many counties have open enrollment but I do not believe their are that many in Kentucky. Not sure though. I just feel that the private schools should have a district that they have to stay within just like the public schools do. Then maybe we would get a little mix up in the championship games instead of the same big private schools there all the time.

But are they recuiting? If you were an athlete why not play at a school that can give you exposer and a chance to win a ring. If the parents play by the rules, what the big deal?

**kywldcat01** · 11-09-2009, 10:43 PM

I think some of you are too bent on recruiting at the high school level.

More often than not, it's the parents recruiting the schools and not vice versa. Kids want to play at winning programs that give them exposure and a chance to excel at the next level.

If you look at some of the top programs around the state, not only are they very good in athletics, but they're also some of the top academic schools as well.

I'm not saying recruiting doesn't go on cause it most certainly does in some cases (see J'town with Aaron Cosby in basketball), but unless you have proof, you shouldn't be accusing a school of doing it. It's very demeaning to the coaches and kids who put in work 50 weeks of the year.

As far as the private schools go, if you're going to accuse them of recruiting, then you need to say something about the elementray private schools as well, considering a lot of the same kids attend the private high school too. I think some of you are just a little jealous of the success so the only thing you can come up with is that they recruit.

As far as the topic of this thread, one of the biggest reasons s school like Highlands is successful every year is their system. They have, IMO, the best youth legue program in the state.

Their kids only play against each other in the Ft. Thomas Jr. Football League, so by the time these kids are at the freshman level, they've been running the varsity offensive scheme for years and been playing with one another for years as well.

If you look at Highlands current roster, there are only two kids who didn't participate in the FTYFL. Also, their off season program is one of the best in the state as well. They have very few multi sport athletes, which allows everyone to focus on football year round.

It also helps that they have one of the best head coaches in the state in Dale Mueller and he has assembled an outstanding assistant coaching staff.

There are many things that go in to a successful football program, but the keys IMO are the following:

1. Great coaching
2. Off season work out/conditioning
3. Talent
4. Development of young players/Youth league
5. Community support

**BigBlueBobcatFan** · 11-09-2009, 10:49 PM

It all starts with the younger kids you have to have good leadership around them and down here when you are born you come out wearing that Black jersey and carrying a pigskin and coach hilton meets your parents at the hospital to catch you

**nky** · 11-09-2009, 11:01 PM

kywldcat01 Wrote:I think some of you are too bent on recruiting at the high school level.

More often than not, it's the parents recruiting the schools and not vice versa. Kids want to play at winning programs that give them exposure and a chance to excel at the next level.

If you look at some of the top programs around the state, not only are they very good in athletics, but they're also some of the top academic schools as well.

I'm not saying recruiting doesn't go on cause it most certainly does in some cases (see J'town with Aaron Cosby in basketball), but unless you have proof, you shouldn't be accusing a school of doing it. It's very demeaning to the coaches and kids who put in work 50 weeks of the year.

As far as the private schools go, if you're going to accuse them of recruiting, then you need to say something about the elementray private schools as well, considering a lot of the same kids attend the private high school too. I think some of you are just a little jealous of the success so the only thing you can come up with is that they recruit.

As far as the topic of this thread, one of the biggest reasons s school like Highlands is successful every year is their system. They have, IMO, the best youth legue program in the state.

Their kids only play against each other in the Ft. Thomas Jr. Football League, so by the time these kids are at the freshman level, they've been running the varsity offensive scheme for years and been playing with one another for years as well.

If you look at Highlands current roster, there are only two kids who didn't participate in the FTYFL. Also, their off season program is one of the best in the state as well. They have very few multi sport athletes, which allows everyone to focus on football year round.

It also helps that they have one of the best head coaches in the state in Dale Mueller and he has assembled an outstanding assistant coaching staff.

There are many things that go in to a successful football program, but the keys IMO are the following:

1. Great coaching
2. Off season work out/conditioning
3. Talent
4. Development of young players/Youth league
5. Community support

well said plus it's a public school

tbatts33 · 11-09-2009, 11:39 PM

YOUTH PROGRAMS
IMO these kids play together for 3 or 4 years before they even have to step on a high school field together. Most programs also institute the basics of the schools style of play into the youth. It can only get better from there.