[TheRealVille]

It's obvious that you don't understand the whole picture, and I'll leave it at that.

I would. You are not willing to concede that most of the layoffs as of yet, are because of low prices.

[Hoot Gibson]

You offer nothing but proaganda, the opposite of what CatDawg and OldSchool are offering. I, just now finished helping to build a brand new coal powerhouse unit that is in full operation, and buying coal at a super cheap price.

What does the fact that you worked on the construction of a utility plant have to do with Obama's promise that cap and trade legislation will "necessarily cause utility bills to skyrocket?" Do you have any experience obtaining mining permits? Planning underground and surface mines? Projecting short and long term coal production from over 130,000 acres of mineral properties in eastern Kentucky?

Maybe you are a mining engineer or a manager for a major coal company or maybe your head was recently filled with the political and environmental theories of liberal college professors who have no practical knowledge of coal mining. If your knowledge is purely academic, then congratulations - you are just as qualified to propose an energy policy for this nation as Barack Obama.

Exactly what experience do you possess that qualifies your opinion as valid while dismissing mine as "propaganda." My guess is that I was designing coal mines and dealing with federal and state mining regulatory agencies when your were still in elementary school. Please correct me if I am wrong. I have been a registered mining engineer for more than 20 years.

Appalachian coal mining is facing a bleak future. More than 70 years ago, 28 inches was usually used as the lower limit for coal seam thickness when deep minable coal reserves were estimated. Except in rare cases, such as the Blue Gem seam in SE Kentucky, 28 inches is still the lower limit for deep minable coal reserves. The coal is not getting any thicker and thick seams having low strip ratios are abundant in several western states in areas such as the Powder River Basin.

You can claim to be a supporter of the coal industry if you want but the plain truth is that you cannot truly support the eastern Kentucky coal industry and support Barack Obama at the same time. Obama has already taken steps to make good on his threats to the coal industry.

You are correct that large inventories of coal are most responsible for low coal prices at the present time but you are absolutely wrong to dismiss the threat that Obama poses to the long term viability of the industry.

[CatDawg]

What does the fact that you worked on the construction of a utility plant have to do with Obama's promise that cap and trade legislation will "necessarily cause utility bills to skyrocket?" Do you have any experience obtaining mining permits? Planning underground and surface mines? Projecting short and long term coal production from over 130,000 acres of mineral properties in eastern Kentucky?

Maybe you are a mining engineer or a manager for a major coal company or maybe your head was recently filled with the political and environmental theories of liberal college professors who have no practical knowledge of coal mining. If your knowledge is purely academic, then congratulations - you are just as qualified to propose an energy policy for this nation as Barack Obama.

Exactly what experience do you possess that qualifies your opinion as valid while dismissing mine as "propaganda." My guess is that I was designing coal mines and dealing with federal and state mining regulatory agencies when your were still in elementary school. Please correct me if I am wrong. I have been a registered mining engineer for more than 20 years.

Appalachian coal mining is facing a bleak future. More than 70 years ago, 28 inches was usually used as the lower limit for coal seam thickness when deep minable coal reserves were estimated. Except in rare cases, such as the Blue Gem seam in SE Kentucky, 28 inches is still the lower limit for deep minable coal reserves. The coal is not getting any thicker and thick seams having low strip ratios are abundant in several western states in areas such as the Powder River Basin.

You can claim to be a supporter of the coal industry if you want but the plain truth is that you cannot truly support the eastern Kentucky coal industry and support Barack Obama at the same time. Obama has already taken steps to make good on his threats to the coal industry.

You are correct that large inventories of coal are most responsible for low coal prices at the present time but you are absolutely wrong to dismiss the threat that Obama poses to the long term viability of the industry.

:Thumbs: And people from this area don't realize the effect that PRB coal is having on this area as well. Some of those seams are 100 FOOT thick and are unbeliveable to see. Companies like Arch and Peabody are putting more and more money into those area's and less into Central App coal. PRB coal is already being shipped to the east in large quantities to be blended with the higher BTU coal from Central App. as of 10/16/09 PRB coal had actually came back up to just over 9 dollars a ton. This coal is cheap and can be ship and blended with Central App coal to be used in power plants and it is happening more and more. Add to that the coal that is starting to pour out of the Illinois Basin and one can see where coal in this area of the country is slowly being elminated. Wyoming has been the number 1 producer for the last few years and they are only widening that lead. The PRB loadouts can load 15000 tons of coal into railcars in just over an hour and they load 8 to 10 trains per day. As they expand rail lines in the area this will only increase their output more.

[Hoot Gibson]

:Thumbs: And people from this area don't realize the effect that PRB coal is having on this area as well. Some of those seams are 100 FOOT thick and are unbeliveable to see. Companies like Arch and Peabody are putting more and more money into those area's and less into Central App coal. PRB coal is already being shipped to the east in large quantities to be blended with the higher BTU coal from Central App. as of 10/16/09 PRB coal had actually came back up to just over 9 dollars a ton. This coal is cheap and can be ship and blended with Central App coal to be used in power plants and it is happening more and more. Add to that the coal that is starting to pour out of the Illinois Basin and one can see where coal in this area of the country is slowly being elminated. Wyoming has been the number 1 producer for the last few years and they are only widening that lead. The PRB loadouts can load 15000 tons of coal into railcars in just over an hour and they load 8 to 10 trains per day. As they expand rail lines in the area this will only increase their output more.

:Thumbs: I would like to add that as our federal government adds costs to the bottom line of companies mining middle Appalachian coal, imports from South America and South Africa also will become competitive in many markets in the eastern US, which will displace domestic production.

[CatDawg]

Venezuelan coal is going to be a big player. Keystone energy is already looking into bringing a large amount into the Jacksonville area wehre they are a big player.

[Hoot Gibson]

Venezuelan coal is going to be a big player. Keystone energy is already looking into bringing a large amount into the Jacksonville area wehre they are a big player.

I was surprised to discover that Columbia exported more coal to the US in 2008, followed by Indonesia, Canada and Venezuela. 99 percent of US coal imports were from those four countries, so I guess South African coal is no longer competitive. 75 percent of our coal imports were from Columbia in 2008. I thought Venezuela topped the list but I guess Chavez has been busy destroying the coal industry there.

[CatDawg]

I knew Columbia was a player but I didn't realize to that extent either.

[Mr.Kimball]

What does the fact that you worked on the construction of a utility plant have to do with Obama's promise that cap and trade legislation will "necessarily cause utility bills to skyrocket?" Do you have any experience obtaining mining permits? Planning underground and surface mines? Projecting short and long term coal production from over 130,000 acres of mineral properties in eastern Kentucky?

Maybe you are a mining engineer or a manager for a major coal company or maybe your head was recently filled with the political and environmental theories of liberal college professors who have no practical knowledge of coal mining. If your knowledge is purely academic, then congratulations - you are just as qualified to propose an energy policy for this nation as Barack Obama.

Exactly what experience do you possess that qualifies your opinion as valid while dismissing mine as "propaganda." My guess is that I was designing coal mines and dealing with federal and state mining regulatory agencies when your were still in elementary school. Please correct me if I am wrong. I have been a registered mining engineer for more than 20 years.

Appalachian coal mining is facing a bleak future. More than 70 years ago, 28 inches was usually used as the lower limit for coal seam thickness when deep minable coal reserves were estimated. Except in rare cases, such as the Blue Gem seam in SE Kentucky, 28 inches is still the lower limit for deep minable coal reserves. The coal is not getting any thicker and thick seams having low strip ratios are abundant in several western states in areas such as the Powder River Basin.

You can claim to be a supporter of the coal industry if you want but the plain truth is that you cannot truly support the eastern Kentucky coal industry and support Barack Obama at the same time. Obama has already taken steps to make good on his threats to the coal industry.

You are correct that large inventories of coal are most responsible for low coal prices at the present time but you are absolutely wrong to dismiss the threat that Obama poses to the long term viability of the industry.

Hey Hoot, theRealville is also a petroleum engineer. He pumps his own gas, ya know!!!

[Mr.Kimball]

I was surprised to discover that Columbia exported more coal to the US in 2008, followed by Indonesia, Canada and Venezuela. 99 percent of US coal imports were from those four countries, so I guess South African coal is no longer competitive. 75 percent of our coal imports were from Columbia in 2008. I thought Venezuela topped the list but I guess Chavez has been busy destroying the coal industry there.

Just like everything else we import. It is mind boggling that we can buy something that is shipped half way across the world cheaper than we can mine it and ship it 20 miles down the road to our own power plants.

[TheRealVille]

:Thumbs: And people from this area don't realize the effect that PRB coal is having on this area as well. Some of those seams are 100 FOOT thick and are unbeliveable to see. Companies like Arch and Peabody are putting more and more money into those area's and less into Central App coal. PRB coal is already being shipped to the east in large quantities to be blended with the higher BTU coal from Central App. as of 10/16/09 PRB coal had actually came back up to just over 9 dollars a ton. This coal is cheap and can be ship and blended with Central App coal to be used in power plants and it is happening more and more. Add to that the coal that is starting to pour out of the Illinois Basin and one can see where coal in this area of the country is slowly being elminated. Wyoming has been the number 1 producer for the last few years and they are only widening that lead. The PRB loadouts can load 15000 tons of coal into railcars in just over an hour and they load 8 to 10 trains per day. As they expand rail lines in the area this will only increase their output more.

This leads to further layoffs in this area.

[TheRealVille]

You can claim to be a supporter of the coal industry if you want but the plain truth is that you cannot truly support the eastern Kentucky coal industry and support Barack Obama at the same time. Obama has already taken steps to make good on his threats to the coal industry.

You are correct that large inventories of coal are most responsible for low coal prices at the present time but you are absolutely wrong to dismiss the threat that Obama poses to the long term viability of the industry.

And this was the purpose of the thread, to show that all the layoffs right now aren't Obama related. Every time you hear of mine layoffs on here, someone shouts, "Thanks Obama". The layoffs of a lot of the mines are nothing more than they can't mine the coal cheap enough to sell it.

[TheRealVille]

What does the fact that you worked on the construction of a utility plant have to do with Obama's promise that cap and trade legislation will "necessarily cause utility bills to skyrocket?" Do you have any experience obtaining mining permits? Planning underground and surface mines? Projecting short and long term coal production from over 130,000 acres of mineral properties in eastern Kentucky?

Maybe you are a mining engineer or a manager for a major coal company or maybe your head was recently filled with the political and environmental theories of liberal college professors who have no practical knowledge of coal mining. If your knowledge is purely academic, then congratulations - you are just as qualified to propose an energy policy for this nation as Barack Obama.

Exactly what experience do you possess that qualifies your opinion as valid while dismissing mine as "propaganda." My guess is that I was designing coal mines and dealing with federal and state mining regulatory agencies when your were still in elementary school. Please correct me if I am wrong. I have been a registered mining engineer for more than 20 years.

Appalachian coal mining is facing a bleak future. More than 70 years ago, 28 inches was usually used as the lower limit for coal seam thickness when deep minable coal reserves were estimated. Except in rare cases, such as the Blue Gem seam in SE Kentucky, 28 inches is still the lower limit for deep minable coal reserves. The coal is not getting any thicker and thick seams having low strip ratios are abundant in several western states in areas such as the Powder River Basin.

You can claim to be a supporter of the coal industry if you want but the plain truth is that you cannot truly support the eastern Kentucky coal industry and support Barack Obama at the same time. Obama has already taken steps to make good on his threats to the coal industry.

You are correct that large inventories of coal are most responsible for low coal prices at the present time but you are absolutely wrong to dismiss the threat that Obama poses to the long term viability of the industry.

This thread isn't about cap and trade, feel free to start a thread about that. This thread is about low coal(and even cheaper gas) prices causing the bulk of layoffs of theses mines around here.

[Mr.Kimball]

You offer nothing but proaganda, the opposite of what CatDawg and OldSchool are offering. I, just now finished helping to build a brand new coal powerhouse unit that is in full operation, and buying coal at a super cheap price.

I'll tell you what 'ville. If you want to ramble on thinking your the expert on this subject and want to take on some of these guys you gonna do nothing but get yourself totally embarrassed. I dont know CatDawg but I have known Old School and Hoot both for 40+ years. And with JP, you have no inkling at all of what your going up against. Your a T Ball player trying to play in the Major Leagues here. Just a little advice. Give this one a rest and go on to something else. Your gonna get humiliated my friend.

[TheRealVille]

I'll tell you what 'ville. If you want to ramble on thinking your the expert on this subject and want to take on some of these guys you gonna do nothing but get yourself totally embarrassed. I dont know CatDawg but I have known Old School and Hoot both for 40+ years. And with JP, you have no inkling of what your going up against. Your a T Ball player trying to play in the Major Leagues here. Just a little advice. Give this one a rest and go on to something else. Your gonna get humiliated my friend.

At what, presenting the truth about some of the mines laying off because of cheap coal prices? As I said at the first of the thread, I spoke with a high up Cam person. He told me their layoffs coming up are because they can't mine the coal cheap enough to sell it right now. They have plenty of permits for the next 5 years. The Miller Bros. layoffs are coming because of their parent company coming out of bankruptcy. How can they humiliate me with that? They are the ones bringing in off topic stuff that doesn't bear any weight to the topic of the thread. I'm no coal expert and don't try to act like I am. I just know what I see with my very own eyes.

[Mr.Kimball]

At what, presenting the truth about some of the mines laying off because of cheap coal prices?

OK then, just giving you a little friendly advice is all. Your certainly welcome to go on with this and do as you please while pretending to be the expert.

I'm just saying. You were warned.

[TheRealVille]

OK then, just giving you a little friendly advice is all. Your certainly welcome to go on with this and do as you please while pretending to be the expert.

I'm just saying. You were warned.

What are you talking about? I started the thread with facts about the two mines in question. Have you even read the whole thread? I haven't even disputed that Obama wants to break coal, but these two mines layoffs have nothing to do with Obama. If you will go back to the first of the thread, you would see that OS and CD and I were having a pretty good talk, right up until Hoot came in with an offtopic post.

[Mr.Kimball]

What are you talking about? I started the thread with facts about the two mines in question. Have you even read the whole thread? I haven't even disputed that Obama wants to break coal, but these two mines layoffs have nothing to do with Obama.

Yeah, I've read the whole thread. I wont say another word. I just noticed that you started to get a tad personal with some of your comments so, I honestly just gave you what I think is my best advice for your benefit, since you have no idea who your debating with. You carry on as you wish. In other words, " Pour it On!!!!"

[Hoot Gibson]

This thread isn't about cap and trade, feel free to start a thread about that. This thread is about low coal(and even cheaper gas) prices causing the bulk of layoffs of theses mines around here.

Sorry if the direction of the thread is interfering with your effort to paint Obama as something other than an enemy of the coal industry. Facts are stubborn things.

Nobody disputes that a deep recession leads to low coal prices. It has happened during every recession that I can remember. However, we have never before had a president proposing serious job killing legislation like cap and trade in the midst of a recession, or if you prefer a "jobless recovery."

The jobs being lost in the coal industry today will become as permanent as the ones that the auto industry suffered over the past few decades if Obama's agenda achieves its aims. High taxes and misguided government regulations left the Big 3 unable to compete in the world market and Obama's proposed legislation will make layoffs like those at Cam Mining common place.

After our federal government spreads its special brand of misery throughout the coal fields, a politician with explain that "these jobs are not coming back" as they tout millions of "green jobs" that somehow never materialize in the numbers promised.

If you want to restrict a thread about job losses in the coal industry to posts praising Barack Obama or his handling of the economy while absolving him of any responsibility for job losses, then you should apply to BGR for a Thread Czar position. Job losses and bankruptcies in the coal industry will dwarf those of past recessions if Republicans and Democrats from coal-producing states cannot block large parts of Obama's legislative agenda.

Obama's response to impending job losses in the coal industry has been like dispatching a gasoline tanker to a fire.

[Mr.Kimball]

Sorry if the direction of the thread is interfering with your effort to paint Obama as something other than an enemy of the coal industry. Facts are stubborn things.

Nobody disputes that a deep recession leads to low coal prices. It has happened during every recession that I can remember. However, we have never before had a president proposing serious job killing legislation like cap and trade in the midst of a recession, or if you prefer a "jobless recovery."

The jobs being lost in the coal industry today will become as permanent as the ones that the auto industry suffered over the past few decades if Obama's agenda achieves its aims. High taxes and misguided government regulations left the Big 3 unable to compete in the world market and Obama's proposed legislation will make layoffs like those at Cam Mining common place.

After our federal government spreads its special brand of misery throughout the coal fields, a politician with explain that "these jobs are not coming back" as they tout millions of "green jobs" that somehow never materialize in the numbers promised.

If you want to restrict a thread about job losses in the coal industry to posts praising Barack Obama or his handling of the economy while absolving him of any responsibility for job losses, then you should apply to BGR for a Thread Czar position. Job losses and bankruptcies in the coal industry will dwarf those of past recessions if Republicans and Democrats from coal-producing states cannot block large parts of Obama's legislative agenda.

Obama's response to impending job losses in the coal industry has been like dispatching a gasoline tanker to a fire.

Let the games begin!!!

:popcorn:

[Hoot Gibson]

At what, presenting the truth about some of the mines laying off because of cheap coal prices? As I said at the first of the thread, I spoke with a high up Cam person. He told me their layoffs coming up are because they can't mine the coal cheap enough to sell it right now. They have plenty of permits for the next 5 years. The Miller Bros. layoffs are coming because of their parent company coming out of bankruptcy. How can they humiliate me with that? They are the ones bringing in off topic stuff that doesn't bear any weight to the topic of the thread. I'm no coal expert and don't try to act like I am. I just know what I see with my very own eyes.

As I said before, low coal prices are only a part of the equation that yields job losses. Mining costs are equally important and our federal government is actively working to increase those costs in a bad economy.

When coal prices bounce back, as they inevitably will, those higher costs caused by Obama's meddling will not drop back to current levels. Temporary job losses in the coal industry have been common in the past. The coal industry has a long history of booms and busts. Obama's attack on the industry is what makes the current layoffs different and it is what threatens to make the job losses permanent.

[TidesHoss32]

Just a little bit of useless info..and by no means am I trying to stoke the fire, but I would bet those same CAM high ups are the ones that told us in a meeting last October, about a month before the election, to vote, and to "pay real close attention to who you vote for, because Obama is the coal industrys worst nightmare"...when he won the election, before we went underground one day in February, my superindenent was in our locker room talking to a bunch of us and told us that "its about to get reeeeal bad, and these guys thats been in the mines 20 and 30 years, that thought theyve seen bad times, are about to see BAD times"..he also said that "any coalminer in this country that voted for Obama that lost his job, wont have anybody to blame but himself"..less than a month later there were massive layoffs throughout the company, and 13 contract workers were laid off, but the surface mines were destroyed..like I said, just a little bit of useless info..

[Hoot Gibson]

Just a little bit of useless info..and by no means am I trying to stoke the fire, but I would bet those same CAM high ups are the ones that told us in a meeting last October, about a month before the election, to vote, and to "pay real close attention to who you vote for, because Obama is the coal industrys worst nightmare"...when he won the election, before we went underground one day in February, my superindenent was in our locker room talking to a bunch of us and told us that "its about to get reeeeal bad, and these guys thats been in the mines 20 and 30 years, that thought theyve seen bad times, are about to see BAD times"..he also said that "any coalminer in this country that voted for Obama that lost his job, wont have anybody to blame but himself"..less than a month later there were massive layoffs throughout the company, and 13 contract workers were laid off, but the surface mines were destroyed..like I said, just a little bit of useless info..

When you start a mountaintop removal job, you have to have some confidence in the economy. It is difficult and expensive to mothball any mine but idling a large surface mine for more than a few months is extremely expensive and often requires some waivers from OSM. When a company starts a MTR project with a high strip ratio and coal prices plummet after mining half a mountain the company is faced with a huge financial obligation that can push it into bankruptcy.

If I owned a surface mining coal company, I would be trying to obtain new permits while working to defeat Democrats in 2010 and 2012. I would also be trying to wind down operations and avoid starting new projects as long as cap and trade legislation is on the table and as long as Barack Obama is in the White House. Prudent companies will not take on new risks as long as the party controlling both the White House and Congress is on a mission to destroy the industry.

I hope that most coal miners understood that the threat that Obama posed to their jobs was a real one and voted accordingly but I wonder how many residents of eastern Kentucky believed that their jobs would be safe because they were not directly employed by a coal company and believed that they could afford to vote for Obama.

[TidesHoss32]

When you start a mountaintop removal job, you have to have some confidence in the economy. It is difficult and expensive to mothball any mine but idling a large surface mine for more than a few months is extremely expensive and often requires some waivers from OSM. When a company starts a MTR project with a high strip ratio and coal prices plummet after mining half a mountain the company is faced with a huge financial obligation that can push it into bankruptcy.

If I owned a surface mining coal company, I would be trying to obtain new permits while working to defeat Democrats in 2010 and 2012. I would also be trying to wind down operations and avoid starting new projects as long as cap and trade legislation is on the table and as long as Barack Obama is in the White House. Prudent companies will not take on new risks as long as the party controlling both the White House and Congress is on a mission to destroy the industry.

I hope that most coal miners understood that the threat that Obama posed to their jobs was a real one and voted accordingly but I wonder how many residents of eastern Kentucky believed that their jobs would be safe because they were not directly employed by a coal company and believed that they could afford to vote for Obama.

Well, I can say out of everybody at the mines I worked, that it would be fair to say that nobody that voted, voted for him..even a couple of the die hard Dems said they couldnt vote for him..

[TheRealVille]

Well, I can say out of everybody at the mines I worked, that it would be fair to say that nobody that voted, voted for him..even a couple of the die hard Dems said they couldnt vote for him..

If the Dem's had ran somebody else or the Republicans hadn't tried to run that old man and that idiot, I wouldn't have voted for him either. Just like coal can't afford to vote for people that go against their way of life, I can't afford to vote against my way of life either. Republicans are notorious for trying to pass legislation to bust unions.

[Hoot Gibson]

If the Dem's had ran somebody else or the Republicans hadn't tried to run that old man and that idiot, I wouldn't have voted for him either. Just like coal can't afford to vote for people that go against their way of life, I can't afford to vote against my way of life either. Republicans are notorious for trying to pass legislation to bust unions.

Unions cannot provide job security and they cannot protect hourly wage rates when the government seeks to destroy the companies that employ their members.

I agree with you about John McCain. I really, really hated to vote for him as the lesser of two evils. Mit Romney would have been the best person to have in the White House during difficult economic times, hands down. The silver lining is that Obama has performed so badly so far and he has exposed the far left wing agenda of Pelosi and Reid, and he has delivered a loud wake up call to Republicans, moderate independents, and moderate Democrats. 2010 is going to be a political bloodbath for Democrats, which would not have happened had a Republican won the 2008 presidential election.

[Mr.Kimball]

Unions cannot provide job security and they cannot protect hourly wage rates when the government seeks to destroy the companies that employ their members.
I agree with you about John McCain. I really, really hated to vote for him as the lesser of two evils. Mit Romney would have been the best person to have in the White House during difficult economic times, hands down. The silver lining is that Obama has performed so badly so far and he has exposed the far left wing agenda of Pelosi and Reid, and he has delivered a loud wake up call to Republicans, moderate independents, and moderate Democrats. 2010 is going to be a political bloodbath for Democrats, which would not have happened had a Republican won the 2008 presidential election.

Or can they keep the doors open to a bankrupt company.

[TidesHoss32]

If the Dem's had ran somebody else or the Republicans hadn't tried to run that old man and that idiot, I wouldn't have voted for him either. Just like coal can't afford to vote for people that go against their way of life, I can't afford to vote against my way of life either. Republicans are notorious for trying to pass legislation to bust unions.

Well I agree with you about McCain..Sarah Palin is a real piece of work. I dont like her or McCain at all, and I get so sick of hearing "maverick Republicans" I could puke. However, I voted for them because I knew that Obama would be hard on my profession, and I didnt his stance on guns as well, and that Republicans are typically very lenient on the coal industry. It was as simple as that. But like you, I vote for who's gonna make me money.

[Old School]

Well, I can say out of everybody at the mines I worked, that it would be fair to say that nobody that voted, voted for him..even a couple of the die hard Dems said they couldnt vote for him..

I just wonder how Obama and Biden were elected, if you ask people today who they voted for, very few will admit to voting for Obama.

As I said before, low coal prices are only a part of the equation that yields job losses. Mining costs are equally important and our federal government is actively working to increase those costs in a bad economy.

When coal prices bounce back, as they inevitably will, those higher costs caused by Obama's meddling will not drop back to current levels. Temporary job losses in the coal industry have been common in the past. The coal industry has a long history of booms and busts. Obama's attack on the industry is what makes the current layoffs different and it is what threatens to make the job losses permanent.

These higher costs are being passed on to the consumer. IMO this administration is trying to bring the cost of energy produced by coal to the same levels as solar and wind among other alternative sources.

At what, presenting the truth about some of the mines laying off because of cheap coal prices? As I said at the first of the thread, I spoke with a high up Cam person. He told me their layoffs coming up are because they can't mine the coal cheap enough to sell it right now. They have plenty of permits for the next 5 years. The Miller Bros. layoffs are coming because of their parent company coming out of bankruptcy. How can they humiliate me with that? They are the ones bringing in off topic stuff that doesn't bear any weight to the topic of the thread. I'm no coal expert and don't try to act like I am. I just know what I see with my very own eyes.

Coal prices are down on the spot market, and for those who are trying to sign new contracts. Many coal companies are still selling coal for the contract prices that were signed last year when prices were much higher.

Also keep in mind that these permits that have not been activated can and more than likely will have their 404 and NWP21 revolked by the EPA.

Venezuelan coal is going to be a big player. Keystone energy is already looking into bringing a large amount into the Jacksonville area wehre they are a big player.

Utility companies in the Virginia area were importing coal form Venezuelan also.

:Thumbs: And people from this area don't realize the effect that PRB coal is having on this area as well. Some of those seams are 100 FOOT thick and are unbeliveable to see. Companies like Arch and Peabody are putting more and more money into those area's and less into Central App coal. PRB coal is already being shipped to the east in large quantities to be blended with the higher BTU coal from Central App. as of 10/16/09 PRB coal had actually came back up to just over 9 dollars a ton. This coal is cheap and can be ship and blended with Central App coal to be used in power plants and it is happening more and more. Add to that the coal that is starting to pour out of the Illinois Basin and one can see where coal in this area of the country is slowly being elminated. Wyoming has been the number 1 producer for the last few years and they are only widening that lead. The PRB loadouts can load 15000 tons of coal into railcars in just over an hour and they load 8 to 10 trains per day. As they expand rail lines in the area this will only increase their output more.

What really gets me is that the proposed EPA changes will only effect the Appalachian region, and does not effect PRB, Illinois, or Western Kentucky coal fields.

[CatDawg]

I just wonder how Obama and Biden were elected, if you ask people today who they voted for, very few will admit to voting for Obama.



These higher costs are being passed on to the consumer. IMO this administration is trying to bring the cost of energy produced by coal to the same levels as solar and wind among other alternative sources.



Coal prices are down on the spot market, and for those who are trying to sign new contracts. Many coal companies are still selling coal for the contract prices that were signed last year when prices were much higher.

Also keep in mind that these permits that have not been activated can and more than likely will have their 404 and NWP21 revolked by the EPA.



Utility companies in the Virginia area were importing coal form Venezuelan also.



What really gets me is that the proposed EPA changes will only effect the Appalachian region, and does not effect PRB, Illinois, or Western Kentucky coal fields.

And the funny thing is I have never seen any coal as nasty as PRB. It has a high moisture content but it is so dusty you can't be around it. Near the loadouts it is common on a wind driven day to get dust six inches thick in just one days time.

[jetpilot]

If the Dem's had ran somebody else or the Republicans hadn't tried to run that old man and that idiot, I wouldn't have voted for him either. Just like coal can't afford to vote for people that go against their way of life, I can't afford to vote against my way of life either. Republicans are notorious for trying to pass legislation to bust unions.

That old man and that idiot = Biden and Obama. If you think that Biden and Obama are smarter than McCain and Palin it is you who is the fool.

Great stuff on here from all you guys who understand coal...you know who you are.:notworthy