Death penalty can we afford it?

**nky** · 10-20-2009, 09:38 AM

Study: Death penalty costs can average $10M more per year per state than life terms
Eleven state legislatures have considered repealing the death penalty this year

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/10/20/deat...index.html

What do you think should we keep it or save some $$

**Amun-Ra** · 10-20-2009, 11:04 AM

I dont see why it should cost more money to end someone than to keep them up for 20 plus years.. That doesn't make sense.

Sounds like a lot of bs to me.

I am all for the death penalty and in fact it should be used more.

**TidesHoss32** · 10-20-2009, 11:23 AM

I think the government is too concerned with the "politically correct" way of doing everything. Spending $10M on a death penalty is stupid. But our government over the years has been notorious for big spending, as well as needless spending. Anyways, I am all for the death penalty, and I agree with Amun-Ra, we dont use it nearly enough. After convicted, a child molester (or anybody that scars a child), or some pillhead holler junkie that breaks into an elderly home and kills the old man and woman to score some pills should get the same treatment. Those are just two examples, by the way. Get an inmate (with less serious charges) gravedigger crew to dig the grave, lay the punk in the grave, and put a bullet in his forehead. Problem solved. And you save yourself and the taxpayers $9,999,998.50. Makes sense to me.

**nky** · 10-20-2009, 11:41 AM

Amun-Ra Wrote:I dont see why it should cost more money to end someone than to keep them up for 20 plus years.. That doesn't make sense.

Sounds like a lot of bs to me.

I am all for the death penalty and in fact it should be used more.

This figure includes the multiple automatic appeals a death penalty case gets (about $1.5 million per trial) plus seperate smaller housing unit in prison.

It cost KY about $26000 to house an average prison per year. On a cost based look it is cheaper to put someone away for the rest of their life vs. using the death penalty.

Is the death penty a deterant? I don't think so how many criminals say I'm not going to ________ because I'm going to get the death penalty.

Personally I like the idea of life without a chance of getting out. Image living in the general population for 50 or 60 years how much more punishment is that. Or if you did something horrible there aalways is prison justice (see Jeffery Dalmer for evidence)

**Amun-Ra** · 10-20-2009, 12:30 PM

Thats where it doesn't make sense.

If people witness what you did or there is undisputable evidence then I say you get one year. Appeal if you want but if after a year there is no evidence that proves you didnt do it then too bad so sad.

I know there are cases where people have been inprisoned who after many years have been found innocent but that happens less now with the technology we have.

congressman · 10-20-2009, 12:46 PM

For me, no, we can't afford it. But its not because of financial burden. Its because the price of putting to death someone who is innocent, far outweighs any number of 0's you can put on a pricetag. I'm completely and 100% against the death penalty, not because of the moral issue, because I honestly believe those who commit murder should die, but putting all murderers in the world to death at the cost of just 1 innocent man pleading from his bed not to be murdered himself, is far to great for me. On this issue and that of abortion, I tend to follow a simple rule.. Error on the side of caution. If you can not be absolutely certain that someone is actually guilty of the murder, then why take a chance? Abortion follows the same logic. Science can not prove definitively if an unborn child is actually a 'life'... so therefor if you error on the side of caution, you will absolutely NOT have anything to worry about when you stand before your maker. While those who choose to abort a fetus, face a 50/50% chance of being wrong.. and thus, possibly commit murder.

Now, let me switch gears and please have your attention.. this is important to me. So I decided to do it this way, seperating it from the above explanation. The following is personal opinion, and different than most posts on here. I'm not debating, nor spouting facts and figures. And DEFINATELY not using talking points. This is from the heart:

I understand the sensitive subject at hand.. and I definately understand the passion that many people have on both issues. So I'm goin to do something that few people ever do on here. I'm going to beg each and every one of you to take a long long look at the issue, even if you've poured over it for hours, days, or even years.. Look a little deeper inside yourself, and even deeper into what you truly believe. And please, try to find it in you to reject the death penalty. If you do this for me, and still believe that the death penalty is the answer, you have my word that I'll not try to change your mind again. But this is a matter that is near and dear to my heart.. and I greatly appreciate those who had an honest and open discussion with their heart, and their God.

**Stardust** · 10-20-2009, 01:30 PM

Not in the Middle East. Arrested, Trial within days, Firing squad, family pays all expense to the state.....

congressman · 10-20-2009, 02:23 PM

Stardust Wrote:Not in the Middle East. Arrested, Trial within days, Firing squad, family pays all expense to the state.....

Which is exactly what we need... Shariah Law. lol

**Stardust** · 10-20-2009, 02:26 PM

^ LOL - Maybe we don't need to go quite to that extreme, but deffinitely something needs to be changed from what we have today.

**Amun-Ra** · 10-20-2009, 02:45 PM

Congressman I hear what your saying and I agree with you to a point. Any innocent man that gets put to death is a tragedy that no ammount of dollars can fix but with the technology we have today, a man put on death row is guilty beyond doubt.

Moral issues I understand as well. But let me ask you this. Where is the morals for a system that allows a child molester back out onto the streets to do his crime over again? To me that is as bad as the crime itself. Where is the morals of a system that lets a murderer who kills someone out of cold blood out of jail after only a few years?
NO. These people who commit these crimes forfeit their lives when they become inhuman. Society has no place for people who rape and muder a child or who rob and kill for nothing more than pennies. The death penalty is def needed in this world.

**nky** · 10-20-2009, 02:50 PM

Amun-Ra Wrote:These people who commit these crimes forfeit their lives when they become inhuman. Society has no place for people who rape and muder a child or who rob and kill for nothing more than pennies. The death penalty is def needed in this world.

That's where life with no parole comes into play. Place these "people" into general population not a segregated isolated cell block. If you view the death penalty as the ultimate punishment then think of the punishment of spending the next 50+ years knowing you'll never get out and worrying about covering your back.:yikes:

congressman · 10-20-2009, 04:28 PM

Amun-Ra Wrote:Congressman I hear what your saying and I agree with you to a point. Any innocent man that gets put to death is a tragedy that no ammount of dollars can fix but with the technology we have today, a man put on death row is guilty beyond doubt.

Moral issues I understand as well. But let me ask you this. Where is the morals for a system that allows a child molester back out onto the streets to do his crime over again? To me that is as bad as the crime itself. Where is the morals of a system that lets a murderer who kills someone out of cold blood out of jail after only a few years?
NO. These people who commit these crimes forfeit their lives when they become inhuman. Society has no place for people who rape and muder a child or who rob and kill for nothing more than pennies. The death penalty is def needed in this world.

First off, let me make it clear. I didn't in any way, shape, or form endorse the current criminal system. But since you brought it up, I will.

The fact is, that I agree with you that its wrong to put someone on the street after a few years in prison for such a horrific crime. However, with that said, I do think its possible that crimes of passion be judged with leinancy on a case by case basis. Even a premeditated incident such as, a mother who kills a man who molested her mentally retarded son, while not acceptable to me, is at least a bit understandable. These cases should be reviewed and lighter sentences permitted. These are crimes of passion, and although done out of love and hate, also done for what they truly percieve as a justifiable reason, and is acceptable to a large portion of the population. I don't condone this behavior in ANY way, but I do understand it. Otherwise, all murderers should be given life sentences without parole for a minimum of 20-30 years.

I would also like to say that I believe in the possibility of rehabilitation, and second chances. I personally was given a second chance at life, and I took it and ran with it. And I'm where I am today because of that. I suppose that I should thank God more often for the believers who saw me through.

I'm also going to question your ability to assure me that 'new technology' eliminates the risk of the death penalty for the innocent. This simple explanation does nothing to ease my mind, and I highly doubt that its based on facts. CSI is only a show. The fact is, a simple google search will bring up lists of people released over the last 20 years from death row, some only days or hours from execution. One Johnathan Huffman of North Carolina was exonerated when his cousin admitted to lying on the stand (he was the states key witness), to get back at his cousin for stealing money from him. What would have happened, had his cousin not admitted his lie?? These kinda things happen. Its not even a matter open to debate. And the sad part is, they occur most often to those who are poor, and/or of minority status. Your lawyers matters a great deal as well... Further, there are trials where no body, or murder weapon was found. Yet, based on circumstancial evidence, the defendent was convicted. And I'm not saying they were innocent, and more often than not, they're guilty. But the fact is, these are things that must be looked at. "New technology" is too simple of an answer, and what seems to be a quick way to make a point without explaining yourself. What technologies do you speak of?

I'm very passionate about this issue. More so than most others. I just typically stay away from the topic.. tonight, I could not do so.

Finally, I'd like to point out that I haven't always felt this way on this matter. I once, and not long ago at all (about 2 years or so) was an absolute radical on the death penalty. I believed in it as much as Bill Clinton did (he oversaw the passage of a bill expanding those eligible for the death penalty, including non-violent offenders such as drug dealers. It also included crimes other crimes not involving murder, such as rape.) He was the most pro-death president this nation has ever seen.. and I made him look like Ghandi. So I urge each and everyone of you, on this issue and others... be willing to change your mind, and do research for that specific reason. I like to dive into a topic with the idea that i'm willing to change, and with the intention to research reasons why I should... its not always about strengthening your current belief, although even with the method I just described, you'll often do so.

**Hoot Gibson** · 10-21-2009, 09:42 PM

I support the death penalty but the current system is broken and diminishes what should be a strong deterrent for would-be murderers.

The death penalty should be rare and require a very high degree of proof. The government should ensure that the defendant in capital cases receive the best legal representation available. At all steps in the prosecution of capital offenses, these cases should automatically move to the top of the docket to ensure that appeals do not drag out for years.

Having provided defendants with the best available legal representation, upon the exhaustion of all appeals, people convicted in these cases should be executed immediately.

We will never totally eliminate the possibility that innocent people will sometimes be wrongly convicted of serious crimes because we are human. I am sure that I am not the only American who would rather be wrongfully convicted of a capital offense than wrongfully convicted of a crime and sentenced to life in prison without a chance of parole.

I think that too much time is spent on debating the death penalty, where wrongful convictions are extremely rare and too little time investigating the many people who are incarcerated everyday because of incompetent lawyers.

We should address the problems with death penalty cases but it is not the most serious issue facing our justice system.

**nky** · 10-22-2009, 10:11 AM

congressman Wrote:Finally, I'd like to point out that I haven't always felt this way on this matter. I once, and not long ago at all (about 2 years or so) was an absolute radical on the death penalty. I believed in it as much as Bill Clinton did (he oversaw the passage of a bill expanding those eligible for the death penalty, including non-violent offenders such as drug dealers. It also included crimes other crimes not involving murder, such as rape.) He was the most pro-death president this nation has ever seen.. and I made him look like Ghandi. So I urge each and everyone of you, on this issue and others... be willing to change your mind, and do research for that specific reason. I like to dive into a topic with the idea that i'm willing to change, and with the intention to research reasons why I should... its not always about strengthening your current belief, although even with the method I just described, you'll often do so.

Totally agree with you on this. I think I was right with you about 10 years ago until I started to really look at the ISSUE and not the emotional make the criminal pay aspect of it. For me it really came down to a fiscal debate nothing else.

Truth · 10-22-2009, 11:13 AM

Congressman, I would be interested in knowing if you are just as "passionate" in your opposition to abortion. While the death penalty may result in the death of a completely (not technically) innocent person one time out of ten thousand or so, abortion destroys the innocent one hundred percent of the time.

It is consistent to oppose both abortion and the death penalty. It is consistent to support both. It is consistent to oppose abortion and support the death penalty. However, one cannot with any intellectual integrity support abortion and oppose capital punishment.

I oppose the capital punishment in its present form because, with all the appeals and related stalls, the punishment will likely never be carried out and, if it is, often twenty, twenty-five, or more years have passed since the crime was committed. Sadly, other than for family, the victim is long forgotten (there are many innocent victims, you know). That is wrong.

If we are to have capital punishment, it should be done in a relatively swift manner. Justice would actually be served (rather than the travesty we have now) and it would certainly save a goodly portion of the expense.

congressman · 10-22-2009, 02:46 PM

Truth,

Absolutely. My opposition to abortion is as strong, if not stronger than the issue of the death penalty. And aside from the obvious reasons.. I find it insanely hypocritical, how other laws are written and supported by those who support abortion. For instance, the typical pro abortion legislator is almost always an enviormentalist. Supporting laws that make it a crime punishable by prison time for things such as killing an endangered species, or defacing a public park. Yet when an unborn life is taken, by a gruesome process.. its acceptable. Then I see those who try to buy votes from both sides, and its sickening. For instance, in many states its a crime of up to murder, for a drunk driver to wreck and kill an unborn child that a woman is carrying within her womb. Yet, the woman could have been on her way to an abortion clinic to carry out the very same task.. and instead of jailtime, the congressman responsible for the previous law, typically tries to reward the lady with tax dollars so she's out no expense. This is happening in America today. The government also recognizes as a person, unborn child, when you create and file a lawful will and testament. You can give your unborn child all your possessions and the government recognizes this fully, if the paperwork is drawn up correctly. Yet the child recieves no other protections, including those within the constitution that give it the right to life, liberty, and able to pursue happiness. We must look at what we're doing... Abortion, and the death penalty are both opposed by me on the premise that innocent life should not be taken and should be protected by all possible means. All unborn children are innocent. Some deathrow inmates as well. The cost this nation is paying in smiles that will never be smiled, and hearts that quit beating because of a flawed legal system.. is far to high, and will someday haunt this nation. sooner rather than later.

i'm convinced that abortion will be the 21st century's slavery and hopefully with the support of the able and willing, a turning point in the course of history.

**thecavemaster** · 10-22-2009, 02:52 PM

Is it relevant in this issue to assess the relative guilt or innocence of something that is as of yet incapable of acting, or deciding? Can there be innocence without the possiblity of guilt? By analogy, what was the tree with the fruit on it in that garden there for anyway?

**DevilsWin** · 10-22-2009, 03:35 PM

You guys are so in touch with the animal nature of Humanity that you forget that we live in a country which was founded by people who knew that, mankind's natural Animal nature had to be tempered by a document of law. One that was not to be deviated from. The U.S. Constitution protects all US Citizens from "Cruel and Unusual" Punishment. The Church also condems the death penalty but the some decide to ignore the churches position on this matter.

You can't be anti abortion and pro death penalty without being a hypocrite.

When you pick up the noose you have to lay The Bible down my friends.

congressman · 10-22-2009, 04:08 PM

thecavemaster Wrote:Is it relevant in this issue to assess the relative guilt or innocence of something that is as of yet incapable of acting, or deciding? Can there be innocence without the possiblity of guilt? By analogy, what was the tree with the fruit on it in that garden there for anyway?

Well, to be perfectly honest.. I don't believe fruit was ever on a tree in a garden as told by man, searching for an answer to life's questions.

I do believe that when I look into the eyes of a child, I know that there is nothing that exists more pure and innocent. You may or may not have kids, but from your reaction, I would highly doubt it. However, you may 200, which would be worse..because you have failed to come to the simplest of conclusions. Children are the most precious things on the face of this earth. And they deserve every chance that you or I have had...

Abortion and the death penalty are cancers that will continue to destroy this nation. Keep in mind, (to the best of my knowledge) we rank 4th in state sponsored legal deaths. Only China, Iran, and Saudi Arabia put more people to death. Add abortion to that, and we're surely number 2 in the entire world. And lets look at the great group of guys that puts us with overall with the death penalty, "Afghanistan, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Belarus, Botswana, China, Egypt, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Japan, Libya, North Korea, Malaysia, Mongolia, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, St. Kitts and Nevis, Sudan, Syria, United Arab Emirates, United States, Vietnam and Yemen ". Looks more like a list of state sponsors of terrorism...

Interesting.

Cruel and unusual? Cruel absolutely. But unusual? Absolutely not. We do it far too often, and we have currently over 3000 people on death row...

For those opposed, as I am.. we have some glimmers of hope. States are slowly trending away from its use, and each year we make gains in non-DP states, or those actively working to abolish it. Its going to be a be a long hard fight guys... but as Randy Pausch said, "Walls aren't there to stop us... they're there only to see how bad we want something." I want this bad.

hawg laig · 10-22-2009, 04:38 PM

I am opposed to the death penalty. It does not deter crime. However I would be an ardent supporter of slow, prolonged tortureif is it was ever proposed. Death is final, but prolonged physical and psychic pain can go on for a long time.

The constitiution prohibits this, but hey, the government has ignored it before so maybe they can let this slide by.

Truth · 10-22-2009, 04:52 PM

DevilsWin, you are being rather selective in your interpretation of the US Constitution. First of all, "cruel and unusual punishment" is a vague concept and is open to interpretation and definition. Of course, much of the document is somewhat vague since it gives very few absolutes.

Your thesis that one is a hypocrit if he supports capital punishment but not abortion is without constitutional merit. You seem to like to cite the US Consitution. Let me direct you first to the Declaration of Independence, scientific evidence, and then to the Fourteenth Amendment of the US Constitution.

The Declaration of Independence immediately states that we have certain unalienable rights (that means God-given rights that cannot be infringed upon by we human beings). As you know, those rights are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Note which is first: life. Thus, it can be conclusively argued that, by our own founding document, the formers of our nation acknowledged that there is a God-given right to life.

Scientific evidence is clear that, once conception occurs, a separate human life is in existence. To argue otherwise is to be ignorant of science. Thus, the preborn should always be included as part of those who have unalienable (God-given) rights.

Now, for the Fourteenth Amendment. Two of the major rights contained in that amendment are "equal protection" and "due process". Equal protection means that all, and that means all, under the jurisdiction of our laws are entitled to that right.

The right of due process is what separates the death penalty from abortion. Surely no one can argue that those sentenced to death don't receive due process before the sentence is carried out. They get appeal after appeal, review after review, stall after stall, reprieve after reprieve. The due process is endless.

But, on the other hand, what due process is received by the innocent preborn? Clearly and sadly, the answer is absolutely none.

If one wants to opppose capital punishment, I believe he must do so by arguing that the unalienable right to life(God-given) is an absolute right and cannot be contradicted regardless of the nature of the crime of the offender. However, one cannot argue against capital punishment using opposition to abortion as being contradictory because the two are not related- constitutionally or otherwise.

By the way, congressman, I very much approve of your answer to my question to you.

Matman · 10-22-2009, 05:01 PM

DevilsWin Wrote:You guys are so in touch with the animal nature of Humanity that you forget that we live in a country which was founded by people who knew that, mankind's natural Animal nature had to be tempered by a document of law. One that was not to be deviated from. The U.S. Constitution protects all US Citizens from "Cruel and Unusual" Punishment. The Church also condems the death penalty but the some decide to ignore the churches position on this matter.

You can't be anti abortion and pro death penalty without being a hypocrite.

When you pick up the noose you have to lay The Bible down my friends.

What if my pro life stance on abortion has nothing to do with religion?

**TheRealVille** · 10-22-2009, 08:31 PM

TidesHoss32 Wrote:I think the government is too concerned with the "politically correct" way of doing everything. Spending $10M on a death penalty is stupid. But our government over the years has been notorious for big spending, as well as needless spending. Anyways, I am all for the death penalty, and I agree with Amun-Ra, we dont use it nearly enough. After convicted, a child molester (or anybody that scars a child), or some pillhead holler junkie that breaks into an elderly home and kills the old man and woman to score some pills should get the same treatment. Those are just two examples, by the way. Get an inmate (with less serious charges) gravedigger crew to dig the grave, lay the punk in the grave, and put a bullet in his forehead. Problem solved. And you save yourself and the taxpayers $9,999,998.50. Makes sense to me.

I would volunteer my services as the trigger man for child or sexual molesters, and not lose a minutes sleep over it. I wouldn't even ask for a salary.

**DevilsWin** · 10-23-2009, 01:33 AM

congressman Wrote:Well, to be perfectly honest.. I don't believe fruit was ever on a tree in a garden as told by man, searching for an answer to life's questions.

I do believe that when I look into the eyes of a child, I know that there is nothing that exists more pure and innocent. You may or may not have kids, but from your reaction, I would highly doubt it. However, you may 200, which would be worse..because you have failed to come to the simplest of conclusions. Children are the most precious things on the face of this earth. And they deserve every chance that you or I have had...

Abortion and the death penalty are cancers that will continue to destroy this nation. Keep in mind, (to the best of my knowledge) we rank 4th in state sponsored legal deaths. Only China, Iran, and Saudi Arabia put more people to death. Add abortion to that, and we're surely number 2 in the entire world. And lets look at the great group of guys that puts us with overall with the death penalty, "Afghanistan, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Belarus, Botswana, China, Egypt, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Japan, Libya, North Korea, Malaysia, Mongolia, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, St. Kitts and Nevis, Sudan, Syria, United Arab Emirates, United States, Vietnam and Yemen ". Looks more like a list of state sponsors of terrorism...

Interesting.

Cruel and unusual? Cruel absolutely. But unusual? Absolutely not. We do it far too often, and we have currently over 3000 people on death row...

For those opposed, as I am.. we have some glimmers of hope. States are slowly trending away from its use, and each year we make gains in non-DP states, or those actively working to abolish it. Its going to be a be a long hard fight guys... but as Randy Pausch said, "Walls aren't there to stop us... they're there only to see how bad we want something." I want this bad.

We agree on this!:Thumbs:

congressman · 10-23-2009, 06:05 AM

TheRealVille Wrote:I would volunteer my services as the trigger man for child or sexual molesters, and not lose a minutes sleep over it. I wouldn't even ask for a salary.

Just curious.. How many people have you ever shot and killed before?

Thats big talk.. and I highly doubt, if given the chance to kill someone you've never met, or even heard about.. say john doe from bfe, georgia.. who was convicted of molesting a kid you've never met, or heard of..... That you'd be so tough and ready to kill.

I feel sorry for those who feel the way you do. So willing to play God, and decide who has the right to live and who has the right to die.

My greatest fear since joining the military years ago, was never about my battle buddy dying, or even myself getting blown to bits... The only thing that has scared me thus far, is looking through my M-68 (optics, laser sight), and seeing a red dot on someone that had no clue that I could end his life in a matter of seconds. So before you feel so confident that you can do it and walk away with a smile on your face, you need to reevaluate the person you are... Its way too easy to talk the talk on a website full of armchair generals, presidents, and bs'ers.

The way I've saw it for a few years now is pretty simple. As you can tell, I've had a reawakening spiritually and philisophically in my not to distant past. I've learned some important lessons.. Every life has value. And every single person is important. God ****it, we belong to someone!!! And although some people have destroyed the lives of others, it is NOT a reason to destroy theres. People change. Its a simple idea, and although every single person in this forum has probably had moments that they hated themselves, and made some bad decisions, they still overcame them and hopefully bettered themselves. The fact is, most people on sex offenders lists are 1 time offenders. My opinion is that sexual crimes are most often symptoms and signs of a troubled soul, and modern science is paving the way to show that it is more than likely a mental disease. If this is proven to be the case, as I'm sure it will, then it needs treatment.. and NOT radical punishment, and DEFINATELY NOT death.

Then on the case of drug dealers. Bill Clinton signed a law that allowed for the federal system to execute large scale drug dealers. This is the worst piece of legislation that Clinton ever signed, to my knowledge. (well, he signed a bunch of them.. so this is just one of many I suppose.) A man that once smoked pot, and former friends have claimed was involved in the drug trade in Arkansas.... decided that the worst of the worst, didn't have the right to life any longer. Well, coming from a man that would cheat on his wife, using the power of the most respected office in the entire world, at a time he had major issues to deal with... its not surprising that he'd do something so reckless. He probably didn't have time to read the bill before he signed it, thats a good excuse.. too busy smoking... pot, or 'cigars'? We'll never know.

Matman · 10-23-2009, 08:48 AM

congressman Wrote:Just curious.. How many people have you ever shot and killed before?

My greatest fear since joining the military years ago, was never about my battle buddy dying, or even myself getting blown to bits... The only thing that has scared me thus far, is looking through my M-68 (optics, laser sight), and seeing a red dot on someone that had no clue that I could end his life in a matter of seconds. So before you feel so confident that you can do it and walk away with a smile on your face, you need to reevaluate the person you are... Its way too easy to talk the talk on a website full of armchair generals, presidents, and bs'ers.

You know one of our greatest heroes in the Army has been a pacifest from Tennesse. I have found the ones who don't want to fight are the ones that are quickest to defend their friends. Its the tough guys who talk a good game that hesitate. It is difficult to take a life. I am a shamed to say it, but its something you become a customed to. However as i have found out it comes back to haunt you later in life.
I'm split on the death penalty though. I don't think we should employ anyone to be a death dealer. But at the same time i wonder what deters some of these criminals. Even inmates in prison for life still continue to commit crimes. They continue to kill, other inmates and staff. Just yesterday i seen an inmate whos serving life try to take another inmates life. He would not quit even after warnings and warning shots. Less than lethal couldn't even slow him. The only thing that saved the other inmate is the M16. However prison to me is not punishment. Its more like time out. We take them out of society so that they we do not have to live with people who refuse to obey the laws of humanity. They go into another society with more luxeries than they had on the street. They then make prison worse with their prison politics.

**TheRealVille** · 10-23-2009, 09:49 AM

congressman Wrote:Just curious.. How many people have you ever shot and killed before?

Thats big talk.. and I highly doubt, if given the chance to kill someone you've never met, or even heard about.. say john doe from bfe, georgia.. who was convicted of molesting a kid you've never met, or heard of..... That you'd be so tough and ready to kill.

I feel sorry for those who feel the way you do. So willing to play God, and decide who has the right to live and who has the right to die.

Ask the lady down in Florida that's 7 yr old kid was just found dead in a dump if the person that did it deserves to live? I would venture that you haven't known about as many child molestation cases as I have in the last 15 years. I can assure you, with a heart as cold as mine toward these kid molesters and killers, that the criminal has no right to live as I see it. Whether they die or go to the pen to get raped by "Bubba", I find joy in the punishment molesters and child abusers get.

BTW, thank you for your service, but that doesn't make you the moral authority on the death penalty for criminals, just because you looked through a gun sight in war times. It's apples and oranges.

**TheRealVille** · 10-23-2009, 10:00 AM

Matman Wrote:It is difficult to take a life. I am a shamed to say it, but its something you become a customed to. However as i have found out it comes back to haunt you later in life.
I'm split on the death penalty though. I don't think we should employ anyone to be a death dealer. But at the same time i wonder what deters some of these criminals. Even inmates in prison for life still continue to commit crimes. They continue to kill, other inmates and staff.

Again, war killing is apples and oranges to killing life criminals. There should be tougher regulations on evidence before executing someone, but if they are found 100% guilty of a death penalty offense, they should be executed within a year of their sentence.

**TheRealVille** · 10-23-2009, 10:02 AM

TidesHoss32 Wrote:I think the government is too concerned with the "politically correct" way of doing everything. Spending $10M on a death penalty is stupid. But our government over the years has been notorious for big spending, as well as needless spending. Anyways, I am all for the death penalty, and I agree with Amun-Ra, we dont use it nearly enough. After convicted, a child molester (or anybody that scars a child), or some pillhead holler junkie that breaks into an elderly home and kills the old man and woman to score some pills should get the same treatment. Those are just two examples, by the way. Get an inmate (with less serious charges) gravedigger crew to dig the grave, lay the punk in the grave, and put a bullet in his forehead. Problem solved. And you save yourself and the taxpayers $9,999,998.50. Makes sense to me.

Amen!! :Thumbs:

**TheRealVille** · 10-23-2009, 11:41 AM

congressman Wrote:I feel sorry for those who feel the way you do. So willing to play God, and decide who has the right to live and who has the right to die.

One more thing. Since you want to bring "God" into the thread, what did he instruct the officials of Israel to do to these trypes of criminals? It was death, right? I think He was a lot tougher on these types than the USA is.