10-11-2009, 01:01 AM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33255971/ns/...hite_house
WASHINGTON - President Barack Obama pledged to end the ban on homosexuals serving openly in the military in a speech Saturday, but acknowledged to a cheering crowd that the policy changes he promised on the campaign trail are not coming as quickly as they expected.
"I will end 'don't ask-don't tell,'" Obama said to a standing ovation from the crowd of about 3,000 at the annual dinner of the Human Rights Campaign, a gay civil rights advocacy group. Obama reaffirmed his commitment to end the ban, but did not give a timetable or the specifics that some activists have called for.
The law was passed by Congress in 1993 and signed by President Bill Clinton, who also promised to repeal the ban on homosexuals in the military but was blunted by opposition in the military and Congress. Obama said he's working with Pentagon and congressional leaders on ending the policy.
WASHINGTON - President Barack Obama pledged to end the ban on homosexuals serving openly in the military in a speech Saturday, but acknowledged to a cheering crowd that the policy changes he promised on the campaign trail are not coming as quickly as they expected.
"I will end 'don't ask-don't tell,'" Obama said to a standing ovation from the crowd of about 3,000 at the annual dinner of the Human Rights Campaign, a gay civil rights advocacy group. Obama reaffirmed his commitment to end the ban, but did not give a timetable or the specifics that some activists have called for.
The law was passed by Congress in 1993 and signed by President Bill Clinton, who also promised to repeal the ban on homosexuals in the military but was blunted by opposition in the military and Congress. Obama said he's working with Pentagon and congressional leaders on ending the policy.
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10-11-2009, 12:01 PM
:Thumbs:
I couldn't agree more with Obama on this. The question I have is... why wait a day longer? Treating homosexuals like a citizenry with the plague is NOT acceptable.
I couldn't agree more with Obama on this. The question I have is... why wait a day longer? Treating homosexuals like a citizenry with the plague is NOT acceptable.
10-11-2009, 02:34 PM
Why not? The military has always been a test bed for social programs for the United States. Integration is one that comes to mind. Homosexuals in the military are patriotic Americans and tend to be more Conservative than their liberal counterparts. It is typical, Conservatives believe the Constitution protects the rights of all its citizenry and liberals use their Constitutional Rights to protect a few or their special interests.
Who supports and defends the Constituion of the United States? The military!
Who supports and defends the Constituion of the United States? The military!
10-11-2009, 09:07 PM
Yeah, now wouldn't you just love being in the showers or stuck in a foxhole with a bunch of the gals. :eyeroll: :please:
10-11-2009, 09:12 PM
Mr.Kimball Wrote:Yeah, now wouldn't you just love being in the showers or stuck in a foxhole with a bunch of the gals. :eyeroll: :please:
Do they pay taxes? Are you against a tax payer serving their country?
10-12-2009, 12:00 AM
Mr.Kimball Wrote:Yeah, now wouldn't you just love being in the showers or stuck in a foxhole with a bunch of the gals. :eyeroll: :please:
I don't have a problem whatsoever serving beside a gay man or woman. Trust me, when you're at war, the last thing on your mind is whether or not the guy to your left or right is a homosexual. I wouldn't assume you'd know anything about fighting in a war though.
10-12-2009, 07:44 AM
TheRealVille Wrote:Do they pay taxes? Are you against a tax payer serving their country?
IDK, do they pay taxes? You know they pay taxes based on what? Bunch of people dont pay taxes, regardless of their orientation. Besides, what has that got to do with anything, anyways??.
Anything your not a radical on?
10-12-2009, 07:45 AM
nky Wrote:If ANYONE wants to join the military and fight -LET THEM.
Then make em go to the showers with the rest of the women and share their bars of soap.
10-12-2009, 10:07 AM
I really don't have a problem with gays in the military. However i wonder if it could cause distraction. There aren't any females in combat jobs or living in these combat out post. Is that due to distractions or physical differences? Also its tough to keep them safe from people who aren't so understanding in a combat zone. It would make my job alot more complicated. I think the policy does need to change but i believe we have enough going on in the military at this time and it can wait till there aren't so many stressors.
10-12-2009, 10:28 AM
Matman Wrote:I really don't have a problem with gays in the military. However i wonder if it could cause distraction. There aren't any females in combat jobs or living in these combat out post. Is that due to distractions or physical differences? Also its tough to keep them safe from people who aren't so understanding in a combat zone. It would make my job alot more complicated. I think the policy does need to change but i believe we have enough going on in the military at this time and it can wait till there aren't so many stressors.
Shouldn't priority #1 be to get all of troops back alive, rather than satisfy some radical agenda to fill an EEO quota? .
10-12-2009, 11:43 AM
Mr.Kimball Wrote:Shouldn't priority #1 be to get all of troops back alive, rather than satisfy some radical agenda to fill an EEO quota? .
I agree. Right now is not the time to start playing politics with our military. Its easy for most to say that everyone deserves equal treatment. But gays in the military is obviously a topic that has our country split. How can i enforce fair treatment and protect individuals while i'm in a war zone. I have more important matters to attend to. When i say "I" i'm referring to my position as a platoon seargent in the us army reserve. It would be on people such as myself to look after the welfare of my soldiers. Not everyone is open minded about these topics.
10-12-2009, 12:05 PM
Matman Wrote:I agree. Right now is not the time to start playing politics with our military. Its easy for most to say that everyone deserves equal treatment. But gays in the military is obviously a topic that has our country split. How can i enforce fair treatment and protect individuals while i'm in a war zone. I have more important matters to attend to. When i say "I" i'm referring to my position as a platoon seargent in the us army reserve. It would be on people such as myself to look after the welfare of my soldiers. Not everyone is open minded about these topics.
:Thumbs:
BTW.....:thanks:
10-12-2009, 12:15 PM
I too am in the military, and write this from Iraq. And let me make it clear... I and everyone I know would fight to the death for any other soldier or citizen, regardless of sexual orientation. I am proud to serve with homosexuals. And I count my blessings that they too have my back, and yours.
10-12-2009, 02:01 PM
congressman Wrote:I too am in the military, and write this from Iraq. And let me make it clear... I and everyone I know would fight to the death for any other soldier or citizen, regardless of sexual orientation. I am proud to serve with homosexuals. And I count my blessings that they too have my back, and yours.
Well thats great. Whats your MOS. Like have said i don't have a problem with gays. I just don't think its the time. If everyone was open minded about issues it wouldn't be a problem. But you must know that everyone in the military doesn't agree. So why would we force them to accept it when in a combat zone? I think its going to happen. But how about phasing it in. Start letting gays into non combat jobs such as the medical branch and admin positions. If youve been in the military then you know many people in service that are openly gay. But you don't ask and they don't tell. In other words you don't make a big deal out of it.
10-12-2009, 02:17 PM
Well during World War II we still had idiots that didn't agree with Blacks serving even though they proved to be some of the best pilots that we had. If your willing to serve you should be able to serve. That's like saying no I don't want a guy, black, mexican or whatever to be a doctor but when it comes down to your life being on the line you don't really care whom is taking care of you as long as they are going to do their best and save your butt. The same goes here if it means a gay Islamic Black man is on the line serving this country to protect each and everyone of us I commend them for doing so and could care less what they look like or what they do on their time.
10-12-2009, 02:22 PM
well, one of the largest mos's is medical, and combat. the combat medic. of which, i am. we fight along side 19's, 13, 11's, and do the same job... except, we are trained to take over medically when catostrophe strikes. I clear buildings, patrol, engage in combat, search for caches, participate in air insertion. today we no longer wear the red cross, we carry m4's, 240's, 249's, operate 50 cals, m9's etc. i would assume you know this... I'm out daily patroling, kle's, checkpoints, guard, medical missions, ect. i serve along side gay males and females, in combat and non-combat roles. no one cares. no one i've ever met anyways. 19d's, even 18 series from 1st group. everyone knows it. its not a secret anymore. i trained for over a year before coming here, learning the 19d and k jobs. i peform them until medical care is needed... then i switch roles.
its just amazing to me that there's some who still believe gays wouldn't be accepted, or need to be kept behind the desk... and the jokes about the shower stuff.. get over it. i'd wash their back if they asked. i'm comfy with my sexual orientation, and equally comfortable bunking and fighting with those who differ from me. who i or anyone else loves, is not the business of the military, the citizens of this nation, or anyone else for that matter.
its just amazing to me that there's some who still believe gays wouldn't be accepted, or need to be kept behind the desk... and the jokes about the shower stuff.. get over it. i'd wash their back if they asked. i'm comfy with my sexual orientation, and equally comfortable bunking and fighting with those who differ from me. who i or anyone else loves, is not the business of the military, the citizens of this nation, or anyone else for that matter.
10-12-2009, 02:24 PM
Catdawg, you're exactly right. If i'm uncomfortable living with a black guy, or fighting with a muslim.. and that 'affects combat readiness'... then, we must ban them from serving. haha, or at the very least.. put them in S1. lol
10-12-2009, 03:15 PM
congressman Wrote:Catdawg, you're exactly right. If i'm uncomfortable living with a black guy, or fighting with a muslim.. and that 'affects combat readiness'... then, we must ban them from serving. haha, or at the very least.. put them in S1. lol
As i have said i don't have a problem with gays. My question is in reguard to timing. There will eventually be a time. It needs to happen and will happen. However do we need to address this now? And you have not seen discrimination against gays in the military than you will. You will meet all kinds in the military. They are a sample of our society. You will see racist, sexit, homophobes, and gangmembers in the military because they exist in our society. I once had a guy in my team when i was a team leader who would not eat at applebees because he said he seen "a *****" working there. He was from texas and by the end of his contract he opened up quite a bit. But it takes time to open these minds and forcing it right in there on them can cause a backlash. Thatss what we don't need.
10-12-2009, 06:45 PM
It's not hard to understand...the only reason the military has this rule is to eliminate headaches. If homosexuals were aloud to be openly gay, that would be just one more thing to deal with. More sexual harrasment complaints, complaints of unfair treatment, and so on. There are plenty of gay people in the military, trust me.
.
10-12-2009, 07:07 PM
congressman Wrote:its just amazing to me that there's some who still believe gays wouldn't be accepted, or need to be kept behind the desk... and the jokes about the shower stuff.. get over it. i'd wash their back if they asked. i'm comfy with my sexual orientation, and equally comfortable bunking and fighting with those who differ from me. who i or anyone else loves, is not the business of the military, the citizens of this nation, or anyone else for that matter.
Fantastic post! :Thumbs:
Maybe the type who are so quick to throw up dropping the soap jokes can go serve in place of all the gross, ewwy openly gay people just to show us how manly men they are...
10-12-2009, 07:25 PM
I have nothing against homosexuals. If they want to serve in the military, I am for it. And I would gladly thank them for that. After all, they are fighting for my rights and my freedoms, who am I to take away theirs? My only concern with this decision would be their safety. Yes, America is pretty open-minded and seemingly willing to accept more issues, but there are still homophobes and radicals out there who are completely against homosexuality. Would this decision cause harm (physically, mentally, emotionally) to them in the long run? Would they become a target in boot camp? Would they be able to gain that trust from the people they serve with? I have full confidence in our military, but not in the mentality of some people these days. People still beat gays up, still refuse them jobs, and still think that they will not be accepted into Heaven. If it happens while they are citizens, what happens when they join the military?
10-12-2009, 07:39 PM
thetribe Wrote:Fantastic post! :Thumbs:Great post, sista!!!:Thumbs:
Maybe the type who are so quick to throw up dropping the soap jokes can go serve in place of all the gross, ewwy openly gay people just to show us how manly men they are...
10-12-2009, 08:04 PM
Mr.Kimball Wrote:IDK, do they pay taxes? You know they pay taxes based on what? Bunch of people dont pay taxes, regardless of their orientation. Besides, what has that got to do with anything, anyways??.No, unlike you, I am just for protecting the rights of tax paying American citizens. You seem to be the radical on most issues.
Anything your not a radical on?
10-12-2009, 08:20 PM
Mr.Kimball Wrote:Then make em go to the showers with the rest of the women and share their bars of soap.
ok you did the soap joke
congressman Wrote:well, one of the largest mos's is medical, and combat. the combat medic. of which, i am. we fight along side 19's, 13, 11's, and do the same job... except, we are trained to take over medically when catostrophe strikes. I clear buildings, patrol, engage in combat, search for caches, participate in air insertion. today we no longer wear the red cross, we carry m4's, 240's, 249's, operate 50 cals, m9's etc. i would assume you know this... I'm out daily patroling, kle's, checkpoints, guard, medical missions, ect. i serve along side gay males and females, in combat and non-combat roles. no one cares. no one i've ever met anyways. 19d's, even 18 series from 1st group. everyone knows it. its not a secret anymore. i trained for over a year before coming here, learning the 19d and k jobs. i peform them until medical care is needed... then i switch roles.
its just amazing to me that there's some who still believe gays wouldn't be accepted, or need to be kept behind the desk... and the jokes about the shower stuff.. get over it. i'd wash their back if they asked. i'm comfy with my sexual orientation, and equally comfortable bunking and fighting with those who differ from me. who i or anyone else loves, is not the business of the military, the citizens of this nation, or anyone else for that matter.
thetribe Wrote:Fantastic post! :Thumbs:
Maybe the type who are so quick to throw up dropping the soap jokes can go serve in place of all the gross, ewwy openly gay people just to show us how manly men they are...
Mr.Kimball Wrote:Great post, sista!!!:Thumbs:
and then you say great post? im confused.
But i have no problem with a homosexual fighting for my family to be safe.
10-12-2009, 08:53 PM
Mr.Kimball Wrote:Great post, sista!!!:Thumbs:I think the tribe was referring to you Kimball.
10-12-2009, 09:20 PM
The article below tells how some of our enemies treat homosexuals in their homelands, I wonder what would happen to our troops if they were captured and suspected to be homosexual.
"More than 30 Islamic countries have laws on the books that prohibit homosexuality and make it a criminal offense. In most cases punishment ranges from floggings to life imprisonment. In Mauritania, Bangladesh, Yemen, parts of Nigeria and Sudan, the United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, and Iran convicted homosexuals can also be sentenced to death."
http://www.spiegel.de/international/worl...13,00.html
"More than 30 Islamic countries have laws on the books that prohibit homosexuality and make it a criminal offense. In most cases punishment ranges from floggings to life imprisonment. In Mauritania, Bangladesh, Yemen, parts of Nigeria and Sudan, the United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, and Iran convicted homosexuals can also be sentenced to death."
http://www.spiegel.de/international/worl...13,00.html
10-12-2009, 09:28 PM
TheRealVille Wrote:No, unlike you, I am just for protecting the rights of tax paying American citizens. You seem to be the radical on most issues.
Which tax paying citizens you referring too? How do you know which are the tax payers and which are not?
Naw,that's just called being normal .
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