[BasketBallonlyfan]

If they drag out that 2-2-1 press for the whole game and Justice repeatidly tries for steals and commits fouls( instead of just D-ing up a player that he ain't gonna steal it from) 6 to 12 points. IMO

So if they dont drag out the 2-2-1 or commit as many fouls, and Justice is still in the game at the end, Valley wins?

[PC_You_Know]

Big Hog

You guys have been arguing the Faulkner boy is better than Elisha. Elisha is on pace to break the state record for career steals, what records is Faulkner going to break? And I'll tell you this, the Faulkner boy may be bigger, but Elisha is one strong boy, his brother Jonah plays for UVA wise on the football team and Jonah was an OX in high school, Elisha got the same genes he did and Elisha is ripped as any high school kid I have ever seen.

[letthebighogroot]

So if they dont drag out the 2-2-1 or commit as many fouls, and Justice is still in the game at the end, Valley wins?

My personal opinon, it don't have as much to do with Justice as the Valley fans want to think. I'm not saying he isn't a very good player cause he is. I think Valley is the better team position for position in a half court game, I think if they want to press and run that negates those advantages. The PG matchup is a push at best, Faulkner shoots it better is really the only diff.

[More Cowbell]

I disagree.......The lesson to be learned is, a team missing 2 or 3 starters (no matter the quality of the remaining starters is not the same team. Example, take Hatfield and Justice away from Valley. As for Henry Clay.......Again they barely finished above .500 last season, was only ranked on BGR, and will not win their region again this year. So, I guess the conclusion to make is that we can both make good points, it just depends on which side of the arguement you chose to take.

First off, it's not the same as taking Hatfield and Justice away from Shelby Valley. Those two happen to be SV's best two players, and losing your star players will always hurt worse. Walton, however, did have their best two players, D-1 signees Rice and Harrow, playing in that game. You can lose a complementary player and continue to win games. SV did just that last year, when Taylor Newsome went down for the year. Even with the loss of a starter, Valley went on to take 3rd place at a prestigious New York tournament, then took eventual region champ Paintsville into overtime before losing.

As for Henry Clay, you are arguing using last season's results, I'm using this season. A season where they beat Christian County, and only lost to Bryan Station by 5. I agree that they will not win their region this year, but then a lot of teams would have trouble winning that region, considering it includes top teams such as Scott County, Bryan Station, Paul Dunbar, and Lexington Catholic. Heck, even Elliott might have trouble winning the 11th.

I really don't know why you're trying to discredit Valley's wins. One would think that fans from one mountain school would be happy for another mountain school to beat a big-city team and an out-of-state power, but I guess not.

Hopefully, if Elliott beats South Charleston, they will receive more respect than SV's big wins have earned them on here.

[PC_You_Know]

Big Hog, I reposted, I'm waiting to hear from you.

[letthebighogroot]

Big Hog

You guys have been arguing the Faulkner boy is better than Elisha. Elisha is on pace to break the state record for career steals, what records is Faulkner going to break? And I'll tell you this, the Faulkner boy may be bigger, but Elisha is one strong boy, his brother Jonah plays for UVA wise on the football team and Jonah was an OX in high school, Elisha got the same genes he did and Elisha is ripped as any high school kid I have ever seen.

First I will say. On pace to break, and breaking are two very different things. That being said, I hope Justice does break the record. As for Faulkner's career stats and if he is near any records, I honestly don't know. As for both player's strength, I have never posted anywhere that Faulkner was stronger than Justice. I will say this however. I'm sure both have very comparable weight training regimens, Faulkner is pretty ripped himself, (maybe if they play and it's a tie they will settle it with an arm wrestling match) As for the brother thing...... Thats all together pretty weak. Some ppl have brothers that are alcoholics, some are gay, some are murderers. Andre the Giant had a brother....But he didn't grow to be 7 feet tall and weigh over 400 pounds.....

[PC_You_Know]

First I will say. On pace to break, and breaking are two very different things. That being said, I hope Justice does break the record. As for Faulkner's career stats and if he is near any records, I honestly don't know. As for both player's strength, I have never posted anywhere that Faulkner was stronger than Justice. I will say this however. I'm sure both have very comparable weight training regimens, Faulkner is pretty ripped himself, (maybe if they play and it's a tie they will settle it with an arm wrestling match) As for the brother thing...... Thats all together pretty weak. Some ppl have brothers that are alcoholics, some are gay, some are murderers. Andre the Giant had a brother....But he didn't grow to be 7 feet tall and weigh over 400 pounds.....

Good rebuttal to my statement. I guess I should also throw in Elisha being the 15th region tournament MVP as a freshmen, that tournament included current Wildcat Landon Slone.

In the books Faulkner doesn't compare to Elisha, Elisha has way more impressive stats and awards.

[letthebighogroot]

First off, it's not the same as taking Hatfield and Justice away from Shelby Valley. Those two happen to be SV's best two players, and losing your star players will always hurt worse. Walton, however, did have their best two players, D-1 signees Rice and Harrow, playing in that game. You can lose a complementary player and continue to win games. SV did just that last year, when Taylor Newsome went down for the year. Even with the loss of a starter, Valley went on to take 3rd place at a prestigious New York tournament, then took eventual region champ Paintsville into overtime before losing.

As for Henry Clay, you are arguing using last season's results, I'm using this season. A season where they beat Christian County, and only lost to Bryan Station by 5. I agree that they will not win their region this year, but then a lot of teams would have trouble winning that region, considering it includes top teams such as Scott County, Bryan Station, Paul Dunbar, and Lexington Catholic. Heck, even Elliott might have trouble winning the 11th.

I really don't know why you're trying to discredit Valley's wins. One would think that fans from one mountain school would be happy for another mountain school to beat a big-city team and an out-of-state power, but I guess not.

Hopefully, if Elliott beats South Charleston, they will receive more respect than SV's big wins have earned them on here.

I am happy for Valley, I just feel some on here are over the top on valley and kinda degrade some others. As for discrediting their wins, I'll stop when others stop.

[PC_You_Know]

I am happy for Valley, I just feel some on here are over the top on valley and kinda degrade some others. As for discrediting their wins, I'll stop when others stop.

oh my gosh bro, you do not get the point, Elliott has beaten no one of credit yet! Can you not deal with that? Valley has beaten two teams which going into the games they were supposed to get beaten by.

[letthebighogroot]

Good rebuttal to my statement. I guess I should also throw in Elisha being the 15th region tournament MVP as a freshmen, that tournament included current Wildcat Landon Slone.

In the books Faulkner doesn't compare to Elisha, Elisha has way more impressive stats and awards.

If what you just listed are your reasons.......Faulkner has back to back 16th region MVPs. The last including future Wildcat Dakota Euton, and a PG in Elisha's class ranked higher than Mr. Justice. Guy by the name of Chad Jackson. I'll throw that in along with the head to head W against Justice.

[PC_You_Know]

If what you just listed are your reasons.......Faulkner has back to back 16th region MVPs. The last including future Wildcat Dakota Euton, and a PG in Elisha's class ranked higher than Mr. Justice. Guy by the name of Chad Jackson. I'll throw that in along with the head to head W against Justice.

Elisha has two more chances for 15th region MVP, he wins those, he'll look a lot more impressive over Faulkner than he already does.

[letthebighogroot]

Elisha has two more chances for 15th region MVP, he wins those, he'll look a lot more impressive over Faulkner than he already does.

He has to win them first, Faulkner has a chance to win another this year as well. Lets just agree to disagree on this. I have said many times Justice is very good player, it's just my opinion that Faulkner is a little better. You however have refused to give anyone other than Justice any credit. Since you say Justice has better stats, what were his averages last season?

[PC_You_Know]

He has to win them first, Faulkner has a chance to win another this year as well. Lets just agree to disagree on this. I have said many times Justice is very good player, it's just my opinion that Faulkner is a little better. You however have refused to give anyone other than Justice any credit.

Well, Elisha held a D-1 signee to under 15 points, don't think Faulkner has done that this season.

[FBALL]

All of this talk about Justice and Faulkner is getting nauseating.

Which Faulkner do you guys want to talk about since they are identical twins. Those kids are tough as nails and play harder than anyone I have ever watched. There is not much difference between the two of them either.

So do two Faulkners trump one Justice?

Then there is the fact that either Faulkner is not the most gifted player on the Elliott County team. Jonathan Ferguson is the best shooter and scorer and Knipp has more upside to him than anyone off of Elliott County or Shelby Valley.

Valley is a very, very good team. One of the top teams in the state. But Elliott County is better IMO. Top 5 in the state. They don't showboat, they don't taunt, they just play hard all the time and the Faulkner twins are the heart of that.

Now I'm not an Elliott County fan. But I have watched this group play for the last 3 years and they are a pleasure to watch. Like I said, You will never see anybody out work them.

I'm not bashing Shelby Valley or the 15th region either. I have ties to the 15th. My nephew played for a 15th region school and my brother in law is a coach at one of them. I'm just giving you guys an honest opinion since everyone wants to compare these two teams from small Eastern Kentucky schools. IMO Elliott County beats Shelby Valley 8 out of 10 times.

[PC_You_Know]

8 out of 10 times? Elliott is not this freaking good.

[FBALL]

8 out of 10 times? Elliott is not this freaking good.

I think they are.

Which is why I put IMO(In My Opinion).

Obviously you do not agree.

10.... 9.... 8... 7... ............... Goosfrabah

[letthebighogroot]

Well, Elisha held a D-1 signee to under 15 points, don't think Faulkner has done that this season.

What are you, 17? This my dad can beat up your dad stuff just keeps coming... No, he hasn't done that yet this season. But if he had, I'm sure Justice would be capable of growing longer toenails, or spelling backwards faster.......

[PC_You_Know]

What are you, 17? This my dad can beat up your dad stuff just keeps coming... No, he hasn't done that yet this season. But if he had, I'm sure Justice would be capable of growing longer toenails, or spelling backwards faster.......

You give all these things about either Faulkner boy, but Elisha looks better on paper. Like you said, you're not sure if a Faulkner is going to break a state record, that's because they're not. Elisha is one of the best defensive players in the state, and has been called that by a few coaches.

What schools are offering either Faulkner?

[letthebighogroot]

You give all these things about either Faulkner boy, but Elisha looks better on paper. Like you said, you're not sure if a Faulkner is going to break a state record, that's because they're not. Elisha is one of the best defensive players in the state, and has been called that by a few coaches.

What schools are offering either Faulkner?

I don't know for a fact what schools offered. Both have already signed. Justice to my knowledge has no scholarship offers.

[FBALL]

You give all these things about either Faulkner boy, but Elisha looks better on paper. Like you said, you're not sure if a Faulkner is going to break a state record, that's because they're not. Elisha is one of the best defensive players in the state, and has been called that by a few coaches.

What schools are offering either Faulkner?

They have both already committed. Ethan to Northern Kentucky and Evan to Radford.

Here is a quote from Elliott County coach Rick Mays that applies well here :

"This game is not settled on the computer or on paper or by mouth. It's settled on the floor".

On the floor is where Elliott County looks its best. They are not worried about stats, or individual records. They are only concerned about winning basketball games and it shows in their effort, teamwork and unselfishness on the floor.

[kybaseball]

Steals - Career (Min.300)
# Player (School) Year
499 William Shearer (Wayne Co.) 1992-95
473 Patrick Harris (Ky. School f/t Deaf) 1992-96
413 Michael Jones (Harlan) 1989-94
409 Patrick Sparks (Muhlenberg North) 1998-01
390 Brandon Stockton (Glasgow) 1999-02
386 Charles Thomas (Harlan) 1990-95
383 LeMar Northington (Trigg Co.) 1995-99
357 Brian Miles (Bullitt East) 1994-97
352 David McFarland (Boone Co.) 2001-05
346 Lenny Bays (Bellevue) 1995-98
340 Bryan Turnage (Henry Clay) 2001-05
309 Kyle Jones (Harlan) 1994-99
Steals - Season (Min. 120)
# Player (School) Year
173 Terrance Britt (Fern Creek) 2006
162 Travis Barber (Caverna) 1996
162 William Shearer (Wayne Co.) 1994
145 Kevin Bridgewaters (Adair Co.) 2002
141 Brandon Brown (Shelby Co.) 2000
133 Elisha Justice (Shelby Valley) 2007
129 Corey Bullock (West Jessamine) 2000
124 Patrick Harris (Ky. School f/t Deaf) 1996
122 LeMar Northington (Trigg Co.) 1998
122 Tony Hargett (Augusta) 1997
122 LeMar Northington (Trigg Co.) 1997
121 Charles Thomas (Harlan) 1993
121 Lenny Bays (Bellevue) 1998
120 Bryan Turnage (Henry Clay) 2005


Which steal record is Justice on the verge of breaking?:confused: :confused: :confused:

[PC_You_Know]

I don't know for a fact what schools offered. Both have already signed. Justice to my knowledge has no scholarship offers.

Nope, no offers for him, but with Billy D and Pelphrey making trips to look at him in Florida an offer could be coming. From what I was told, Elisha made Jai Lucas look horrible at the Florida camp.

[PC_You_Know]

Steals - Career (Min.300)
# Player (School) Year
499 William Shearer (Wayne Co.) 1992-95
473 Patrick Harris (Ky. School f/t Deaf) 1992-96
413 Michael Jones (Harlan) 1989-94
409 Patrick Sparks (Muhlenberg North) 1998-01
390 Brandon Stockton (Glasgow) 1999-02
386 Charles Thomas (Harlan) 1990-95
383 LeMar Northington (Trigg Co.) 1995-99
357 Brian Miles (Bullitt East) 1994-97
352 David McFarland (Boone Co.) 2001-05
346 Lenny Bays (Bellevue) 1995-98
340 Bryan Turnage (Henry Clay) 2001-05
309 Kyle Jones (Harlan) 1994-99
Steals - Season (Min. 120)
# Player (School) Year
173 Terrance Britt (Fern Creek) 2006
162 Travis Barber (Caverna) 1996
162 William Shearer (Wayne Co.) 1994
145 Kevin Bridgewaters (Adair Co.) 2002
141 Brandon Brown (Shelby Co.) 2000
133 Elisha Justice (Shelby Valley) 2007
129 Corey Bullock (West Jessamine) 2000
124 Patrick Harris (Ky. School f/t Deaf) 1996
122 LeMar Northington (Trigg Co.) 1998
122 Tony Hargett (Augusta) 1997
122 LeMar Northington (Trigg Co.) 1997
121 Charles Thomas (Harlan) 1993
121 Lenny Bays (Bellevue) 1998
120 Bryan Turnage (Henry Clay) 2005


Which steal record is Justice on the verge of breaking?:confused: :confused: :confused:

All time steals, he's right off the top 10 list, but he still has 1 3/4 years of basketball to do it, and his pace puts him at #1 by time his Senior year is over.

[BballFan25]

Nothing against Faulkner, but he signed with Radford who is a very small D1 school. That is a great accomplishment definitely, but Elisha will possibly be playing at UK, Florida, Arkansas, and those are just the ones looking after his SOPHOMORE year. By the time his career is over, he will have D1 schools from everywhere offering. He is that good. I know that each player is different and makes their college choices for different reasons, but since you are comparing everything else, look at the schools Elisha has looking at him, versus who Faulkner signed with.

[kybaseball]

So have Billy D ,Billy G, and John P have been to SV watching EJ play? If so that isn't half bad.

I think it is great any player gets and offer from any school.

[PC_You_Know]

So have Billy D ,Billy G, and John P have been to SV watching EJ play? If so that isn't half bad.

I think it is great any player gets and offer from any school.

I would hope Billy D and G have been watching him, Elisha attended both Florida and Kentucky's elite camps. And like I said, I was told Elisha made Jai Lucas look horrible at the camp and that caught some eyes.

[PC_You_Know]

I'm just glad we won't be having this discussion next year, because like said, Elliott is Senior led and they will be like Paintsville next year, good run, but it's coming to an end.

[FBALL]

I'm just glad we won't be having this discussion next year, because like said, Elliott is Senior led and they will be like Paintsville next year, good run, but it's coming to an end.

All good runs come to an end sooner or later. Even the traditional powers have down years. I wouldn't mind being compared to Paintsville either. That little school been one of the top programs in Eastern Kentucky for years. SV wishes they had that kind of tradition.

Why try to slap another team in the face with comments like that?

You can compare teams and players without being derogoatory about it. You need to grow up a little bit.


This goes for everyone. I have enjoyed this debate on teams and there is no problem with it. But if we can't do it without insults this thread will be closed down.

[FBALL]

I would hope Billy D and G have been watching him, Elisha attended both Florida and Kentucky's elite camps. And like I said, I was told Elisha made Jai Lucas look horrible at the camp and that caught some eyes.

You were told? So you don't actually know?

[PC_You_Know]

You were told? So you don't actually know?

First person reference family member.