[J. R. VanHoose]

I would hang on to them.It would be really nice it you could scan a couple of them and put them on here. That would put the end of a lot of myths.I know you may not want to do that and you have nothing to prove.You let your play do the talking and it spoke rather loudly.


Did you every face the player I sent a pm about?

I really have no use for the letters anymore, they are just taking up space. I don't think I need to scan them either, I think people know anyway. As far as people I played against, I think at last count with high school, college, and professional basketball that I have played. I think it was something like 30 post players that I had played against that had played in the NBA at one point in the careers. Over 100 that had been in Europe or other U.S. pro leagues. Not too bad for a kid from the mountains!!

[kybaseball]

I really have no use for the letters anymore, they are just taking up space. I don't think I need to scan them either, I think people know anyway. As far as people I played against, I think at last count with high school, college, and professional basketball that I have played. I think it was something like 30 post players that I had played against that had played in the NBA at one point in the careers. Over 100 that had been in Europe or other U.S. pro leagues. Not too bad for a kid from the mountains!!

As for me i think you have done really well for yourself.Your right you don't need to show the letters on here,Everybody knows you were recruited by big time schools.I know I am nobody but you have my respect and you got it done on and off the court.

[new o]

Too say May was not a team player shows how very little some people on this board know. He led the nation in scoring because he COULD. He shot 53% from the floor that year so before you make false accusations get your #'s straight. JR was a great player but do not try to put down someone else to justify your reasoning. You do realize May played with Marathon Oil for several seasons beating the likes of Maryland,Ole Miss and several other top teir teams duirng this time. By the way May averaged 19 ponits and 8 rebounds over those seasons. Too bad he never played any competition. I was a great team player but I do not think I would have been picked over Rex Chapman in a pick-up game although he did shoot the ball quite a bit. Like I said I saw both in their prime did you guys? Please answer this question. To answer a previous question if King Kelly were considered a big man there would be no debate, he was the greatest player in Ky. high school history....period!

[THUGLIFE#1]

I really have no use for the letters anymore, they are just taking up space. I don't think I need to scan them either, I think people know anyway. As far as people I played against, I think at last count with high school, college, and professional basketball that I have played. I think it was something like 30 post players that I had played against that had played in the NBA at one point in the careers. Over 100 that had been in Europe or other U.S. pro leagues. Not too bad for a kid from the mountains!!

I think u should let ur brother keep em. He can at least show em off to his friends and stuff. I should know

[kybaseball]

Too say May was not a team player shows how very little some people on this board know. He led the nation in scoring because he COULD. He shot 53% from the floor that year so before you make false accusations get your #'s straight. JR was a great player but do not try to put down someone else to justify your reasoning. You do realize May played with Marathon Oil for several seasons beating the likes of Maryland,Ole Miss and several other top teir teams duirng this time. By the way May averaged 19 ponits and 8 rebounds over those seasons. Too bad he never played any competition. I was a great team player but I do not think I would have been picked over Rex Chapman in a pick-up game although he did shoot the ball quite a bit. Like I said I saw both in their prime did you guys? Please answer this question. To answer a previous question if King Kelly were considered a big man there would be no debate, he was the greatest player in Ky. high school history....period!

Yes I saw both of them play.As I have mention before I saw JR more than May.

Say what you want about being a team player everybody has a opinion.:Thumbs:

[kybaseball]

If May scored all those points and grabbed all those rebounds and faced all this great competition,then why is he not mentioned in the KHSAA records? I know JR is on there a bunch. Then why is he not mentioned?It is obvious that the players today have removed him from the record book.

May was one of the top players to come out of KY.I don't want to hate on him and he was a great player in his day.He was and still is a legend to the people of Pike county and I understand that you feel the need to defend his accomplishmentsI don't blame you and would do the same.As time passes his legend will grow and has grown,like the bass people catch it grows a inch and gains a pound every year goes by. This year he avg 18 pts a game next year it will be 20 in 5years later it will be 30 pts a game.

I still would like to know what year he hit the 16 3pointers.

[new o]

If you really want to know why is not listed in the record book I will let you know. Stats were not kept at Virgie with the exception of points taken from the score book. You said you saw May play, I asked did you see him play in his prime? I have not exaggerated one stat on May. I saw him play EVERY game in high school and many of his college games. I also saw JR play about 50% of his high school games but very few in college. Go back and compare the starting line-ups for May and JR in high school. JR played with several D-1 players, May played with 2 NAIA players and the rest never played college. By the way, if you look really really close in the record book, somewhere around the section that reads MR. BASKETBALL I think you may see a familair name beside 1982, and before you say that is not a record I will inform you that it is listed under state records of the KHSAA. I also want to mention that there are many many names listed in those records but a majority of those listed never played college basketball. You guys act like Bird,Jordan,Magic or even Wilt could not play now because the game has changed. A true player could play any era because he would adjust to the game ala Pistol Pete.

[Warriors23RJ]

Too say May was not a team player shows how very little some people on this board know. He led the nation in scoring because he COULD. He shot 53% from the floor that year so before you make false accusations get your #'s straight. JR was a great player but do not try to put down someone else to justify your reasoning. You do realize May played with Marathon Oil for several seasons beating the likes of Maryland,Ole Miss and several other top teir teams duirng this time. By the way May averaged 19 ponits and 8 rebounds over those seasons. Too bad he never played any competition. I was a great team player but I do not think I would have been picked over Rex Chapman in a pick-up game although he did shoot the ball quite a bit. Like I said I saw both in their prime did you guys? Please answer this question. To answer a previous question if King Kelly were considered a big man there would be no debate, he was the greatest player in Ky. high school history....period!

If King Kelly was a big man he has to be #1. The best basketball player in kentucky prep basketball all-time IMO!!

[letthebighogroot]

Too say May was not a team player shows how very little some people on this board know. He led the nation in scoring because he COULD. He shot 53% from the floor that year so before you make false accusations get your #'s straight. JR was a great player but do not try to put down someone else to justify your reasoning. You do realize May played with Marathon Oil for several seasons beating the likes of Maryland,Ole Miss and several other top teir teams duirng this time. By the way May averaged 19 ponits and 8 rebounds over those seasons. Too bad he never played any competition. I was a great team player but I do not think I would have been picked over Rex Chapman in a pick-up game although he did shoot the ball quite a bit. Like I said I saw both in their prime did you guys? Please answer this question. To answer a previous question if King Kelly were considered a big man there would be no debate, he was the greatest player in Ky. high school history....period!

Or how much they know.....Pikeville college stats show that Mr. May averaged 41.4 ppg in 86. Giving him 10 made free throws per contest (an estimate) leaves him with 31.4 on made field goals. If he shot 53 percent that means he took roughly 30 shots per ballgame, for arguements sake we'll call it 29. Show me the last "team player" that averaged 29 shots a ballgame and you have shown me the first one also.

[kybaseball]

If you really want to know why is not listed in the record book I will let you know. Stats were not kept at Virgie with the exception of points taken from the score book. You said you saw May play, I asked did you see him play in his prime? I have not exaggerated one stat on May. I saw him play EVERY game in high school and many of his college games. I also saw JR play about 50% of his high school games but very few in college. Go back and compare the starting line-ups for May and JR in high school. JR played with several D-1 players, May played with 2 NAIA players and the rest never played college. By the way, if you look really really close in the record book, somewhere around the section that reads MR. BASKETBALL I think you may see a familair name beside 1982, and before you say that is not a record I will inform you that it is listed under state records of the KHSAA. I also want to mention that there are many many names listed in those records but a majority of those listed never played college basketball. You guys act like Bird,Jordan,Magic or even Wilt could not play now because the game has changed. A true player could play any era because he would adjust to the game ala Pistol Pete.

Why wasn't the stats kept? JR was a Mr.Basketball and scored a ton of points with good players around him as well.That's just proves my point even further he was a team player.. And like you said May played with 2 NAIA players and the others didn't play ball at all at the next level.There's that pesky point about the competiton back in the day!. And i would say it is safe to say there weren't to many 6'8" players that he played either.

Big Hogg great points for sure even a old dude like me could average 30pts a game with that many shots.:Thumbs: Sounds like someone had the mentality of shoot first shoot second maybe i should pass this time ahh nevermind i will shoot it again.:Thumbs:

Once again when did he hit those 16 3pointers and scored the 60 pts.

[kybaseball]

That bass is getting bigger.

[Mr.Kimball]

If May scored all those points and grabbed all those rebounds and faced all this great competition,then why is he not mentioned in the KHSAA records? I know JR is on there a bunch. Then why is he not mentioned?It is obvious that the players today have removed him from the record book.

May was one of the top players to come out of KY.I don't want to hate on him and he was a great player in his day.He was and still is a legend to the people of Pike county and I understand that you feel the need to defend his accomplishmentsI don't blame you and would do the same.As time passes his legend will grow and has grown,like the bass people catch it grows a inch and gains a pound every year goes by. This year he avg 18 pts a game next year it will be 20 in 5years later it will be 30 pts a game.

I still would like to know what year he hit the 16 3pointers.

First you say one thing , then another. First you want to know why he didn't score all of those points and why he isn't in the record books. Then you brag on JR and all of his points and with all his records in the book. Which is it that you are argueing? Then you say one was a team player because he didn't score all those points and then you condem one for scoring all those. I know none of this makes sense because you dont either. Your just flip flopping all over the place.

[Mr.Kimball]

Why wasn't the stats kept? JR was a Mr.Basketball and scored a ton of points with good players around him as well.That's just proves my point even further he was a team player.. And like you said May played with 2 NAIA players and the others didn't play ball at all at the next level.There's that pesky point about the competiton back in the day!. And i would say it is safe to say there weren't to many 6'8" players that he played either.

Big Hogg great points for sure even a old dude like me could average 30pts a game with that many shots.:Thumbs: Sounds like someone had the mentality of shoot first shoot second maybe i should pass this time ahh nevermind i will shoot it again.:Thumbs:

Once again when did he hit those 16 3pointers and scored the 60 pts.

Aint too mant 6'8" players out there today either for that matter.

[kybaseball]

Go check out the college sports section on this board and see what JR will be doing in WV. this month

Let's you and I agree to disagree.

JR had the abilty to score and work with his team mates and they scored as well. Plus he rebounded pretty good as well.I have never heared anyone ever say JR was not can't really say that about some other players.I do not hero worship anyone but heck yeah i'd take a auto graphed 8x10. And if he offered you one you would take it to.But i don't know about the hangin over my bed part.

[Mr.Kimball]

Go check out the college sports section on this board and see what JR will be doing in WV. this month

Let's you and I agree to dis agree.

JR had the abilty to score and work with his team mates and they scored as well. Plus he rebounded pretty good as well.I have never heared anyone ever say JR was not can't really say that about some other players.I do not hero worship anyone but heck yeah i'd take a auto graphed 8x10. And if he offered you one you would take it to.But i don't know about the hangin over my bed part.

.......................................................................................................................


Never said the first word about May in those posts.

Not really concerned what JR is doing in WVa. I'm sure we will all here about it from him on here, in due time anyways.


My point has been made.

Come on now,you know you would.

[kybaseball]

You have said plenty about him in post.

I would say that to if i were you.I doubt he would say anything about it.

The point is you would take one .


Nah I don't think i would.

[Mr.Kimball]

You have said plenty about him in post.

I would say that to if i were you.I doubt he would say anything about it.The point is you would take one .


Nah I don't think i would.

This one will be over your head and you wont understand where i am coming from, but "Basketball Jones" would never, ever under any circumstance set up an account so that he could talk about himself.

[new o]

Would JR put up those same #'s with the Paintsville team that will be put on the floor this fall? It is amazing to me how someone on this board could honestly say May was a selfish player, ask his teammates. Is JR the greatest high school player in Ky. history? By your standards King Kelly cannot quailfy because he was selfish. The same goes for Rex Chapman because he was a one man show. How about Allan Houston? Nope, he wasn't man enough to bang down low. Wes Unseld? Finaally someone we could put right behind JR.

I was just messing with you, JR was a great player but not what you guys are building him up to be.

[Chuck Taylor]

If JR was the best big man from the mountains, why wasn't he offered a scholarship by UK or UofL?

[J. R. VanHoose]

If JR was the best big man from the mountains, why wasn't he offered a scholarship by UK or UofL?

I was by Coach Crum, but not from Coach Smith.

[SpyDa]

With all due respect to JR. Todd May is the best period. Todd had the post up game as well as the outside shooting ability that many people their size never posess. So if you are going by Individual talent, May hands down.

However, one thing that JR has that May doesnt...... a state championship.

Both were great high school players.

Simply put though May is just better.

[kybaseball]

The 6-10 center/forward concluded a stellar career last week in Marshall�s second-round tournament loss to Kent State. He finishes his career second all-time at Marshall and fifth all-time in Mid-American Conference history with 1,088 rebounds. He also stands as MU�s fifth all-time leading scorer with 1,803 career points. Over the last four years, VanHoose, recorded more double-doubles (points and rebounds) than any other player in the nation (55).

I would take that career anyday.

[kybaseball]

Sporting News, The, Feb 3, 1997 by Lonnie Wheeler

The intriguing thing is that Bob Knight of Indiana has offered one. Roy Williams of Kansas has, too. So have Kevin O'Neill of Tennessee, Billy Donovan of Florida, Jan van Breda Kolff of Vanderbilt, Mike Deane of Marquette and John MacLeod of Notre Dome. Syracuse, Cincinnati, Clemson and North Carolina State are very interested. Any number of the dozens of major colleges that write VanHoose on a regular basis--Tennessee sends him six or eight letters every day--are holding scholarships for him

That ends the debate if J R was recruited by any BIG TIME D-1 schools.

[kyrifle]

Let me throw a coupls names out here for you to ponder.
In 1957, Bob Daniels, Oil Springs High, played college basketball and baseball at WKU
was drafted by the Cincinnati Royals of the NBA and the Pittsburg Pirates MLB. Chose baseball over basketball. Pitched in the pirates orginazation for a few years before having to hang it up with arm trouble. Went on to coach Ky Weslyan to 2 national championships before moving on to coach Marshall Uni.

Charlie Osborne, Flat Gap High, Played at WKU. Drafted by the Syracuse Nationals of the NBA in 1961. Probably the best offensive player to come out of the 57th district.
Second on the KHSAA scoring leader stat. Finished high school with 3647 points.
Seems unreal that two guys from the mountains still hold the number 1 and 2 positions on the career scoring list, both from the 15th region.

Orbie Bowling, Sandy Hook High, played college ball at Tennessee drafted by the New York Knicks in 1963. Played for the KY Colonels 1967-68 year.

These guys were true centers. I think JR and Dan Hall were both true centers. Todd May was a very skilled and versitle player who could play center or forward.
It's really hard to compare guys from different era's but good players can play in any era there is. They just find a way to compete.

If you're going to pick just one player in high school based on points production and rebounding I think Charlie Osborne is the guyto go with. His stats verify it. JMO
and opinions are like ears everyone will have a couple.

[The Private]

I watched May a couple of times, I thought he was very good.I think Paintsville team was better. I would have liked to see them play. Paintsvlle's guards would have made the difference.

[More Cowbell]

Or how much they know.....Pikeville college stats show that Mr. May averaged 41.4 ppg in 86. Giving him 10 made free throws per contest (an estimate) leaves him with 31.4 on made field goals. If he shot 53 percent that means he took roughly 30 shots per ballgame, for arguements sake we'll call it 29. Show me the last "team player" that averaged 29 shots a ballgame and you have shown me the first one also.

In my book, a "team player" does what is needed to help his team win games, whatever that may be. If that is scoring points, making assists, grabbing rebounds, or shutting down the other team's best player on defense, the team player does what is needed.

Now, Todd May was easily the best scorer on both his Virgie and his Pikeville College teams. If they needed him to score 30-40 points for his team to have the best chance to win, then how is that not being a team player? Like another poster mentioned on here, many great players in history have had high PPG averages and took a lot of shots. I only consider that selfish if the player in question is hurting the team by taking all those shots. With regard to May, that was certainly not the case. Bottom line, would you want a fairly even shot distribution amongst your starters, or would you want the best player taking the majority of the shots?

In the end, one has to remember that you can't control who you play with. All you can do is your best as a player to help your team win. VanHoose had a better supporting cast, so he didn't have to do as much for his team to win. May did.
If the roles were reversed, and VanHoose didn't have such good players around him, he likely would have averaged more points but may not have his championship ring. And vice versa for May.

In the end, if you disregard May's better stats and VanHoose's championship, I go by what I saw when I watched them play. And even though VanHoose was a terrific inside player, he didn't have May's outside shooting ability. Having seen them both in person, I am confident in saying that May was the better player.

[letthebighogroot]

In my book, a "team player" does what is needed to help his team win games, whatever that may be. If that is scoring points, making assists, grabbing rebounds, or shutting down the other team's best player on defense, the team player does what is needed.

Now, Todd May was easily the best scorer on both his Virgie and his Pikeville College teams. If they needed him to score 30-40 points for his team to have the best chance to win, then how is that not being a team player? Like another poster mentioned on here, many great players in history have had high PPG averages and took a lot of shots. I only consider that selfish if the player in question is hurting the team by taking all those shots. With regard to May, that was certainly not the case. Bottom line, would you want a fairly even shot distribution amongst your starters, or would you want the best player taking the majority of the shots?

In the end, one has to remember that you can't control who you play with. All you can do is your best as a player to help your team win. VanHoose had a better supporting cast, so he didn't have to do as much for his team to win. May did.
If the roles were reversed, and VanHoose didn't have such good players around him, he likely would have averaged more points but may not have his championship ring. And vice versa for May.

In the end, if you disregard May's better stats and VanHoose's championship, I go by what I saw when I watched them play. And even though VanHoose was a terrific inside player, he didn't have May's outside shooting ability. Having seen them both in person, I am confident in saying that May was the better player.

My post said nothing about a May/Vanhoose comparsion. I qouted college stats for May, not high school. Having said that, How many NAIA players are D1 scholarship athletes that leave and go the NAIA route so they can be "the man" ? Point being, I'm sure May was in most cases doubled teamed, leaving a man open, (if you're averaging 29 shots a ballgame they aren't all good ones) So to answer your question, If I were coaching I would want the best shot, not the one my best player could take with 2 or 3 guys on him. And in response to your "not everyone can control who they play with" statement. Mr. May had 2 opportunities to do that. Maybe he felt like he wouldn't get a chance to chuck 30 shots a game at UK or Wake.

[More Cowbell]

My post said nothing about a May/Vanhoose comparsion. I qouted college stats for May, not high school. Having said that, How many NAIA players are D1 scholarship athletes that leave and go the NAIA route so they can be "the man" ? Point being, I'm sure May was in most cases doubled teamed, leaving a man open, (if you're averaging 29 shots a ballgame they aren't all good ones) So to answer your question, If I were coaching I would want the best shot, not the one my best player could take with 2 or 3 guys on him. And in response to your "not everyone can control who they play with" statement. Mr. May had 2 opportunities to do that. Maybe he felt like he wouldn't get a chance to chuck 30 shots a game at UK or Wake.

First off, not all of my post was directed at you, only the part about what defines a "team player". The rest was in keeping with the general discussion here comparing May and VanHoose.

However, your post is not exactly correct. First, I'm pretty sure you nor I know the exact reasons why May left UK or Wake Forest, so to purport that it was to be "the man" is pure conjecture on your part.

Second, I watched numerous Pikeville College games in which Mr. May played, and no, he wasn't double- or triple-teamed every time down the court. He made a good percentage of his shots, and most of them were good looks for him. Maybe not good shots for everyone, but they were for him. I'm pretty sure that if he was hurting the team by taking bad shots, then he would've found a seat on the bench.

Once again, I say that a team player does what is best to help his team win. And scoring a lot of points helped his Virgie and Pikeville College teams win a lot of games. So he does fit the definition of a "team player".

[kybaseball]

I don't know for sure why May transfered but i really do think it was "to be the man". And at one time in the late 70's early 80's he was.But that was high school then he got a dose of Big Time college basketball. Instead of being the KING he was a Avg player and had to work to get playing time and shots.And when a person is the King then they are not it's hard to accept. So they will search to get it back and he did and was at PC.

bighog I agree with you 100% about shot totals,when your best player takes most of the shots all of them can't be good no matter who the player is.A true team player will get his shots but they will also seek to make their teammates better.


If my conclussions are correct i can not in any way shape or form call that a real team player. That is one of the reasons May is my # 2 It should be #5 on the attitude part but on abilty he is a solid #2 on the top 5 big men from the mountians.:thumpsup:

[BasketBallonlyfan]

My post said nothing about a May/Vanhoose comparsion. I qouted college stats for May, not high school. Having said that, How many NAIA players are D1 scholarship athletes that leave and go the NAIA route so they can be "the man" ? Point being, I'm sure May was in most cases doubled teamed, leaving a man open, (if you're averaging 29 shots a ballgame they aren't all good ones) So to answer your question, If I were coaching I would want the best shot, not the one my best player could take with 2 or 3 guys on him. And in response to your "not everyone can control who they play with" statement. Mr. May had 2 opportunities to do that. Maybe he felt like he wouldn't get a chance to chuck 30 shots a game at UK or Wake.

Pikeville College had a couple D-1 transfers this past season, as they will this season coming up. None of them even came close to Todd's stats or records. I done care what level you play at, if it is D-1 or NAIA, if you can lead every player at any level in the country, that is something that you can be proud of.

I don't know for sure why May transfered but i really do think it was "to be the man". And at one time in the late 70's early 80's he was. But that was high school then he got a dose of Big Time college basketball. Instead of being the KING he was a Avg player and had to work to get playing time and shots.And when a person is the King then they are not it's hard to accept. So they will search to get it back and he did and was at PC.

bighog I agree with you 100% about shot totals,when your best player takes most of the shots all of them can't be good no matter who the player is.A true team player will get his shots but they will also seek to make their teammates better.


If my conclussions are correct i can not in any way shape or form call that a real team player. That is one of the reasons May is my # 2 It should be #5 on the attitude part but on abilty he is a solid #2 on the top 5 big men from the mountians.:thumpsup:

Do you realize that as a freshman, Todd was getting more playing time, and more quality minutes than Kenny Walker was getting? I dont know what would have happened to Todd if he had stayed at Kentucky, I dont know why he left Kentucky. To me, none of that matters because he is a friend of mine that I talk to quite often.