[thecavemaster]

A first trimester fetus is not directly equivalent to a full term baby. That is what I am saying. Roe v. Wade established the first trimester criterion; given the human fertilized egg development process, it's not such an illogical standard.

[ronald_reagan]

A first trimester fetus is not directly equivalent to a full term baby. That is what I am saying. Roe v. Wade established the first trimester criterion; given the human fertilized egg development process, it's not such an illogical standard.

It IS crazy. It still yet does exactly what I say it does. It allows for something magical to happen in a split second on a certain day around the end of the 13th week. Thats insanity, and something that I'd expect from the federal government.

It places no respect of life on a 93 day old fetus, and then in a split second, it suddenly recognizes it as 'somewhat' alive? Thats bogus. And any fool who would believe that, or prescribe to the belief, of even JUST ACCEPT it... is evil. Simple enough.

And since you bring up Roe v. Wade... The majority opinion's author, wrote in his own diary, that he never meant for it to turn out the way it did. He wanted to shape the law in the form of Georgia law.. which is not what we have today.

[thecavemaster]

I would agree with that. By the way, I am personally opposed to abortion. However, I do believe the issue of viability etc. to be a bit more complex than a bumper sticker. Why can someone drink on March 20 but not on March 19? Laws are often arbitrary. You are saying that pro-choice folks are evil?

[ronald_reagan]

I would agree with that. By the way, I am personally opposed to abortion. However, I do believe the issue of viability etc. to be a bit more complex than a bumper sticker. Why can someone drink on March 20 but not on March 19? Laws are often arbitrary. You are saying that pro-choice folks are evil?

Either evil, or just very misguided.. indeed.

I have no problem with laws that set dates, such as drinking, smoking, age of concsent, etc. Its saying that you're not capable of making decisions and understanding them, until around this age. So they set the law in that fashion.

but to say, that a baby isn't a baby until one tick of the clock on such and such night.. some 13 weeks after it started growing inside the mothers womb... its just pure insanity.

[thecavemaster]

"A baby isn't a baby until the Supreme Court says it is." Is that what you are decrying? I am talking about viability, survivability outside the womb, progressive level of development. Of course, neo-natal advances have some bearing here.

[ronald_reagan]

"A baby isn't a baby until the Supreme Court says it is." Is that what you are decrying? I am talking about viability, survivability outside the womb, progressive level of development. Of course, neo-natal advances have some bearing here.

Thats exactly what I'm saying.. and thats exactly what they did with the trimester methedology.

a 14 week baby will never make it outside the womb. But they allowed states to restrict access for 2nd trimester babys. And most 26 week babies won't make it, but they allow a basic ban on all at that point. They obviously thought it was life at that point.

[sherman14]

Abortion Is Still Wrong!!!!

[RammsteinFan92]

Abortion Is Still Wrong!!!!

And Your Still Closed Minded And Don't Care About Anybody's Opionion!

[More Cowbell]

A first trimester fetus = a mentally handicapped person? There is a logical extension/jump there that is not exactly parallel.

The comparison is between people groups that cannot protect themselves. If you would protect one, why not the other?

[More Cowbell]

i'm PRO-CHOCIE.....i don't excatly support abortion .....i support women having the RIGHT.....and if an abortion wasn't neccasary....them i'm against it if a woman is out screwing around and gets pregnant and just Aborts it because she can't handle the Job of careing for the baby......but any ways i don't think the goverment has the right to tell you what to do with your body!!!!

That's not exactly true...

If you are pro-choice, then you do support abortion, because you support legal protection for the act of aborting a baby...

[thecavemaster]

That's not exactly true...

If you are pro-choice, then you do support abortion, because you support legal protection for the act of aborting a baby...

I do not support the government's taking away of a right that was found to be constitutionally protected, judicially limited. I support a woman's right to choose, within the first trimester, what to do with her fertilized egg. To say that, then and therefore, one advocates or supports abortion, is akin to saying that simply because one views smoking as the right of the smoker to harm his/her body that one supports the immoral choice of smoking, immoral because it harms the body.

[sherman14]

I do not support the government's taking away of a right that was found to be constitutionally protected, judicially limited. I support a woman's right to choose, within the first trimester, what to do with her fertilized egg. To say that, then and therefore, one advocates or supports abortion, is akin to saying that simply because one views smoking as the right of the smoker to harm his/her body that one supports the immoral choice of smoking, immoral because it harms the body.

Yes someone has the right to choose to smoke because thats harming themselves. But for a woman to harm another human being is down right wrong. She is taking away a life of a child that could've possibly made a difference in this world. Because this world is so screwed up.

[More Cowbell]

I do not support the government's taking away of a right that was found to be constitutionally protected, judicially limited. I support a woman's right to choose, within the first trimester, what to do with her fertilized egg. To say that, then and therefore, one advocates or supports abortion, is akin to saying that simply because one views smoking as the right of the smoker to harm his/her body that one supports the immoral choice of smoking, immoral because it harms the body.

Just because a panel of activist judges determined that abortion was 'constitutionally protected' does not make it so. That was merely the opinion of a majority of justices at the time, nothing more.

And comparing abortion to smoking is like comparing a human to an earthworm, it doesn't make sense. Smoking by oneself only harms the person doing the smoking, while the harm caused by abortion is toward the powerless, unborn baby. Big difference.

[Midee1]

Just because a panel of activist judges determined that abortion was 'constitutionally protected' does not make it so. That was merely the opinion of a majority of justices at the time, nothing more.

And comparing abortion to smoking is like comparing a human to an earthworm, it doesn't make sense. Smoking by oneself only harms the person doing the smoking, while the harm caused by abortion is toward the powerless, unborn baby. Big difference.

Smoking harms the person that smokes along with those around them due to second hand smoke.

That brings up another question. How do you feel about a pregnant woman that smokes? It affects the woman along with the baby.

[More Cowbell]

Smoking harms the person that smokes along with those around them due to second hand smoke.

This is why I used the phrase "smoking by oneself", which I meant to imply the act of smoking when no one else is around to breathe in secondhand smoke. You're right that smoking around other people does cause them harm, which is why I support the recent laws banning smoking in public places like restaurants.

Hmm, I smell a new thread...

[Midee1]

This is why I used the phrase "smoking by oneself", which I meant to imply the act of smoking when no one else is around to breathe in secondhand smoke. You're right that smoking around other people does cause them harm, which is why I support the recent laws banning smoking in public places like restaurants.

Hmm, I smell a new thread...

Actually it could be two threads. Second hand smoke and those around. Along with smoking while pregnant. I have views on both.

[RammsteinFan92]

So if a woman is a murderer for choosing to abort a fetus.. does that make god a murderer if she had a miscarriage? hmm.. :confused:

[ronald_reagan]

So if a woman is a murderer for choosing to abort a fetus.. does that make god a murderer if she had a miscarriage? hmm.. :confused:

stuff like that...

[sherman14]

So if a woman is a murderer for choosing to abort a fetus.. does that make god a murderer if she had a miscarriage? hmm.. :confused:

Does the letters WTF?? mean:confused: anything to you?

[TidesHoss32]

Does the letters WTF?? mean:confused: anything to you?

Get 'im Shermanator!

[RammsteinFan92]

Get 'im Shermanator!

do you have something against me!

[RammsteinFan92]

Does the letters WTF?? mean:confused: anything to you?

well it makes more sense than saying a fetus that isn't even fully devolped is a person!

[ComfortEagle]

Keep this thread on topic. No personal attacks.

[RammsteinFan92]

Keep this thread on topic.

ok....sorry

[sherman14]

Hey guess what? Abortions still wrong.

[EKY Sportster]

I'm not "pro"-abortion, I'm pro-choice. I don't agree with abortion, but if we stop providing safe facilities for women to use, we will go back to coat-hanger abortions and we will start to have more deadbeat dads and incompetent moms.

You can't use social ills as an excuse. Otherwise you would start hearing arguments for the government to kill all unemployed, all criminals and other non-societal contributors. People have rights whether you like them or agree with them or not, and that includes unborn children. Murder is murder, sugarcoat however you like. You can't be pro-choice and consider it moral or right.

[RavenBoy]

I think abortion is wrong and it shouldnt be done but if my G/f, Wife, or Mom was raped then you better believe I would want it done.

[ComfortEagle]

You can't use social ills as an excuse.

I just did, and that's my right to do so. Get over it.

[RavenBoy]

I just did, and that's my right to do so. Get over it.

erved:

[phs1986]

This topic has gotten out of hand. If you want to start another one, feel free to do so BUT be advised that NO insults or rule breaking will go on!

CLOSED!!!!!