[thecavemaster]

In two weeks, Gen. David Petraeus(?) will testify
before Congress as to how a plan HE DEVISED is
working. A team leader devises a plan to improve
employee morale. After two months, he gives a
report to the plant manager. My guess is the team
leader will mention a few setbacks but report on
the general success of HIS PLAN. No matter how
much integrity this general has, human nature dictates
that he cannot be objective about his own plan.

[ronald_reagan]

So what do you think now?

With insurgent violence and attacks down by about 55% since June?

I guess thats just another "Betrayus" lie huh?

[thecavemaster]

The overthrow/occupation of another nation is no short story. The new technology in "sniffing out" IED's has been critical, and the troop build up has helped, along with Petraeus' training in fighting insurgency. The thread, though, did not question whether or not the strategy would or would not decrease or increase violence. It questioned the wisdom of allowing the one who formed the plan having much of a say as to whether or not that plan was a success.

[ronald_reagan]

Its not a good question. Congress mandated that he deliver the report, along with other outside independent sources such as the GAO. His report wasn't the rosiest of pictures either. To hear some, you'd think that Rush Limbaugh wrote it while under the influence of Oxycontin.

However, I'm pleased that there is much progress in Iraq as of late. Its inspiring and makes me question my own anti-war convictions. In fact, I just saw that a new pact was made with a group of 6,000 Sunni's to volunteer to work along side our troops to help root out Al-Qaida.

God bless our troops, and all who serve this wonderful nation.

[thecavemaster]

Petraeus was giving a report to Congress on the developments of his own plan. The fact that it was a mandated report doesn't mitigate the emphasis placed upon it.

[ronald_reagan]

Petraeus was giving a report to Congress on the developments of his own plan. The fact that it was a mandated report doesn't mitigate the emphasis placed upon it.

My goodness cavemaster, I just wanted to explain to you that if it WAS a biased report, its the fault of congress for asking for it from HIM. If its human nature to do so, as you say.. then it just shows why this congress has a 19% approval rating, and bush enjoys roughly double that.

[thecavemaster]

My goodness cavemaster, I just wanted to explain to you that if it WAS a biased report, its the fault of congress for asking for it from HIM. If its human nature to do so, as you say.. then it just shows why this congress has a 19% approval rating, and bush enjoys roughly double that.

Which, I think, is what I was suggesting: if I ask the guy who builds the swimming pook why its leaking, he says, "Well, my concrete is flawless..."

[ronald_reagan]

Which, I think, is what I was suggesting: if I ask the guy who builds the swimming pook why its leaking, he says, "Well, my concrete is flawless..."

You must be speaking from your own nature, not those of respectable men and women around the world.

Adding to the good news today, Congressman Murtha, harsh critic of the war who voted against the surge and as recently as last month was saying the surge didn't work, said at a press conference today (after returning from Iraq) that the surge has worked and is working.

On a side note, Bush pointed out yesterday that the Iraqi government is nearly done with their budget, while Democrats in congress have passed about 10% of theirs, and are already over 1 month into the FY2008. If it weren't for stop gap and continuing resolutions, the government would be shut down at this point.

[thecavemaster]

Is it your understanding of Christianity that human beings are, by nature, respectable and decent and worthy and good?

[ronald_reagan]

Is it your understanding of Christianity that human beings are, by nature, respectable and decent and worthy and good?

Its not christianity that teaches me this. Its writings of people like Sir Thomas Moore and Polycarp, Ignatius, Iraeneus, ect..

I believe that man is born with a good heart... and by nature would be respectable, decent, worthy, and good.. however by way of cultural influences, this is corrupted.

If I built your pool, and it leaked. I'd fix it. If you can't the same, then I see where you're coming from and why you believe as you do.

And, Congress must have disagreed with you on this strongly, both democrats and republicans, because they trusted him enough for him to develop the plan, deploy it, and then report on it himself. But then again... Congress is full of the people that you describe. Moot point I suppose.

[thecavemaster]

I thought the Nazarene Carpenter, outlandish as his tale was, suggested that the human heart itself was a storehouse for all manner of evil, which proceeded OUT OF IT... not that things OUT OF IT entered INTO IT and made it corrupt? I didn't know Polycarp was a Nazarene Carpenter?

[ronald_reagan]

I thought the Nazarene Carpenter, outlandish as his tale was, suggested that the human heart itself was a storehouse for all manner of evil, which proceeded OUT OF IT... not that things OUT OF IT entered INTO IT and made it corrupt? I didn't know Polycarp was a Nazarene Carpenter?

You asked me if I got it from Christianity itself. Point blank.

My answer was no. Why are you arguing what Christianity says if I just flat out said that I dont' get it from it?

Polycarp was a disciple of John the apostle. Thats why you didn't know he was a Carpenter.

Sir Thomas More spoke of common law. That man knows right from wrong. Its obvious you don't follow Christ, and thats fine by me. So if Christianity is where you find that murder is wrong, then where do atheiests find this belief??

I don't know what point you're trying to make.... but you contradict yourself so much that it confuses me.

Maybe you should be more clear about what you're asking, this wouldn't be the case.

[thecavemaster]

The arrogance with which you hold your beliefs and think you can tell who follows whom would be funny, if it weren't the very kind of poison which hisses in blown up buildings and intolerance in the name of religion. Polycarp...early Christian martyr.....reference as Carpenter meant as sarcasm...

[ronald_reagan]

The arrogance with which you hold your beliefs and think you can tell who follows whom would be funny, if it weren't the very kind of poison which hisses in blown up buildings and intolerance in the name of religion. Polycarp...early Christian martyr.....reference as Carpenter meant as sarcasm...

Caveman,

I don't get your posts. Sometimes you speak in normal language, and then sometimes its out of a Harry Potter book. So I sometimes don't know how to respond or what you're trying to say exactly.

But to compare me to someone who blows up building and intolerant to other religions is offensive, slanderous, untrue... while still yet laughable.

I don't care what you believe about religion, and if my assumption was wrong, it shouldn't offend you, as offense wasn't meant.

I know what you meant by the Polycarp remark, and you should have understand the humor behind my post.... but unlike a good heart, some aren't born with a sense of humor.

[thecavemaster]

Sorry you can't understand the posts. I feel for you, really.

[ronald_reagan]

Sorry you can't understand the posts. I feel for you, really.

Its ok, no sleep lost.

[thecavemaster]

When we compromise the principles of essential liberty in pursuit of temporary safety, we travel down a slippery slope, that leads to a mudslide of illegal activities in foreign countries, the unlawful overthrow of sovereign governments. If you rob me then tell me it was for my own good, it's hard for me to not feel embittered.

[ronald_reagan]

When we compromise the principles of essential liberty in pursuit of temporary safety, we travel down a slippery slope, that leads to a mudslide of illegal activities in foreign countries, the unlawful overthrow of sovereign governments. If you rob me then tell me it was for my own good, it's hard for me to not feel embittered.

What does that have to do with this thread?? I think you meant it for the waterboarding thread.

The surge report in no way compromises your 'essential liberty'.

[thecavemaster]

Probably.

[ronald_reagan]

Probably.

Obviously.

[thecavemaster]

No cute cartoons to illustrate your blustery verbal diarrhea?