[cheese4me]

Mr. Kimball, Pike Co. and Pikeville have a no holdback rule in gradeschool (middleschool). This will definitely put your HS into a disadvantage. We used to have this rule in Letcher Co. but that changes when coach howard arrived and it has made a huge difference in ms. The two middleschools in Letcher Co. have been pretty dominant in the area the last two years and it will be pay big dividends in the future. The age limits haven't changed, but most children go to school at age 5 and will be 13 on graduating ms and 17 in HS even though the limit is 19 after aug 1. Huge difference

[Mr.Kimball]

Mr. Kimball, Pike Co. and Pikeville have a no holdback rule in gradeschool (middleschool). This will definitely put your HS into a disadvantage. We used to have this rule in Letcher Co. but that changes when coach howard arrived and it has made a huge difference in ms. The two middleschools in Letcher Co. have been pretty dominant in the area the last two years and it will be pay big dividends in the future. The age limits haven't changed, but most children go to school at age 5 and will be 13 on graduating ms and 17 in HS even though the limit is 19 after aug 1. Huge difference

I'm understanding the physical differences in the ages that is being described , but is this ( the no holdback rule) something that has just recently been initiated into the Pikeville and Pike County school systems, because I can think of many kids that are playing right now or have played at not only Pikeville but at several Pike County schools that have been held back at some point and time? I named two as examples because they were both held back at some point in their careers.

I do realize that one way around this issue is to not start a child in school until the latest date possible, and still retain eligibility during their senior seasons. Tell me what would be the difference?

[cheese4me]

In Letcher co, I am not for sure about Pike county, you could not play a sport if you were held back in middleschool that year. If you were held back in 8th grade you could not play that year at all. If you repeated 6 7 or 8 grade you would not be elgible to play sports the following or hold back year. It is a board policy. Many parents don't see the benifit of holding back until they get in middleschool and see their kids playing agianst other kids that are a year older.

[Mr.Kimball]

In Letcher co, I am not for sure about Pike county, you could not play a sport if you were held back in middleschool that year. If you were held back in 8th grade you could not play that year at all. If you repeated 6 7 or 8 grade you would not be elgible to play sports the following or hold back year. It is a board policy. Many parents don't see the benifit of holding back until they get in middleschool and see their kids playing agianst other kids that are a year older.

OK thanks, but could somebody from Pike Co. clarify what is being implied by the "playing older kids from other schools" comments.

[UKRULES]

I think what they are saying is that Pike Co and Pikeville and some other districts have said that if any student stays in the same grade for a second year, they are not eligible to play during that second year. If that is the case, then one of two things will happen: either they won't stay back and they will graduate at a younger age or if parents really want to concentrate on athletics, they will be staying back much earlier, which will mean they will be 18 or 19 when they graduate. Some students and parents bite the bullett and repeat a grade at 6, 7 or 8 and just simply sit out that second year. Not likely to happen often, but it does. Other school districts simply don't have rules against playing a second time in the same grade.

Hope this is clearer.

[NEXT]

OK thanks, but could somebody from Pike Co. clarify what is being implied by the "playing older kids from other schools" comments.

Pike County did it last year, because 3 BOE members got mad because Virgie and Dorton and Belfry had parents willing to hold kids back while other schools did not. Add to the fact those 2 and Pikeville win about every sport or are runners up and 3rd place and you see whats going on.

[NEXT]

I think what they are saying is that Pike Co and Pikeville and some other districts have said that if any student stays in the same grade for a second year, they are not eligible to play during that second year. If that is the case, then one of two things will happen: either they won't stay back and they will graduate at a younger age or if parents really want to concentrate on athletics, they will be staying back much earlier, which will mean they will be 18 or 19 when they graduate. Some students and parents bite the bullett and repeat a grade at 6, 7 or 8 and just simply sit out that second year. Not likely to happen often, but it does. Other school districts simply don't have rules against playing a second time in the same grade.

Hope this is clearer.

And Pike Co. and Pikeville shouldn't......................

[HAIL PIKEVILLE!]

I'm understanding the physical differences in the ages that is being described , but is this ( the no holdback rule) something that has just recently been initiated into the Pikeville and Pike County school systems, because I can think of many kids that are playing right now or have played at not only Pikeville but at several Pike County schools that have been held back at some point and time? I named two as examples because they were both held back at some point in their careers.

I do realize that one way around this issue is to not start a child in school until the latest date possible, and still retain eligibility during their senior seasons. Tell me what would be the difference?

Thats what Im doing with my son. And thats the easy way to get around it to be honest. The School System cant force your child to go to school if you dont think there ready.

[Mr.Kimball]

And Pike Co. and Pikeville shouldn't......................

Did Pikeville Independent follow suit as well? They dont have to follow any rules set forth by the Pike Co BOE. I am not quite so sure that that policy is not something that could be legally challanged anyways if someone really wanted to press the issue far enough.

It's of my opinion anyways that a kid has no business graduating from high school at 17 years of age.

[BasketBallonlyfan]

Did Pikeville Independent follow suit as well? They dont have to follow any rules set forth by the Pike Co BOE. I am not quite so sure that that policy is not something that could be legally challanged anyways if someone really wanted to press the issue far enough.

It's of my opinion anyways that a kid has no business graduating from high school at 17 years of age.

Pikeville has had the policy for a three or four years now. The county just put it in effect last year.

[Mr.Kimball]

Pikeville has had the policy for a three or four years now. The county just put it in effect last year.

Thank You

[FOX SPORTS]

This thread is off topic...Please return to discussing Pikeville football 2008.

[CoachJ]

[URL="http://www.kfca.info/winners.htm"][html]
http://www.kfca.info/winners.htm
[/html][/URL]

Hopefully this will clear up some things. Congratulations, Daniel Harmon -- and of course your OL and blocking backs -- on a great year running the football. Gaining over 2,000 yards in a season is both a great individual accomplishment AND team accomplishment -- especially considering some of your best games (150yds+) were against teams that were all playing in the 3rd round of the playoffs (LexCath, LCA, Prestonsburg, and Holy Cross) and you only played about 2 quarters in most of the other games.

...and above all, great character AND humility! Needed no trash talk or showboating to "get himself fired up"...just quietly does his job.

Also, congrats to Coach Daniels of South Floyd on winning Coach of the Year for our district...another class guy who does great work in a tough situation.

[Belfry_99]

I know this is between Jetpilot and CoachJ but i can't help but say that Jetpilot has finally been confronted about his open criticism to someway put down the Pikeville Football program and make it seem that everything he says is right....Hopefully now everyone else will realize half the stuff he has posted is untrue and very biased and they wont pay it any attention

Sorry Jetpilot, but you have met your match...and i think you have lost...i fully expect you to continue hiding behind your name and harassing Pikeville Football like a coward

Very good posts Coach J!

I totally agree, All of his posts are biased, and he likes to put alot of the programs in our area down by trying to say untrue things about them, I'm glad Coach J called him out, he deserved every bit of it.

[Capt. DH]

Congrats to Daniel Harmon on his second straight district player of the year award. looks like jetpilots sources are even less credible now then they were yesterday.

[URL="http://www.kfca.info/winners.htm"][html]
http://www.kfca.info/winners.htm
[/html][/URL]

Hopefully this will clear up some things. Congratulations, Daniel Harmon -- and of course your OL and blocking backs -- on a great year running the football. Gaining over 2,000 yards in a season is both a great individual accomplishment AND team accomplishment -- especially considering some of your best games (150yds+) were against teams that were all playing in the 3rd round of the playoffs (LexCath, LCA, Prestonsburg, and Holy Cross) and you only played about 2 quarters in most of the other games.

...and above all, great character AND humility! Needed no trash talk or showboating to "get himself fired up"...just quietly does his job.

Also, congrats to Coach Daniels of South Floyd on winning Coach of the Year for our district...another class guy who does great work in a tough situation.

[HAIL PIKEVILLE!]

[URL="http://www.kfca.info/winners.htm"][html]
http://www.kfca.info/winners.htm
[/html][/URL]

Hopefully this will clear up some things. Congratulations, Daniel Harmon -- and of course your OL and blocking backs -- on a great year running the football. Gaining over 2,000 yards in a season is both a great individual accomplishment AND team accomplishment -- especially considering some of your best games (150yds+) were against teams that were all playing in the 3rd round of the playoffs (LexCath, LCA, Prestonsburg, and Holy Cross) and you only played about 2 quarters in most of the other games.

...and above all, great character AND humility! Needed no trash talk or showboating to "get himself fired up"...just quietly does his job.

Also, congrats to Coach Daniels of South Floyd on winning Coach of the Year for our district...another class guy who does great work in a tough situation.

I agree. Congrats to Daniel and his blockers. And your 100% right Daniel Harmon IS a leader where others just thought they were. So much for the "Word on the street". LOL!!!

[Capt. DH]

Oh yeah, congrats to his blockers on a fine year. They got better every game they played.

[Dazed&Confused]

Congrats DH...Very deserving of his district POY award...Just carry your success over to the 2008 season and you and your Panthers will be fine!

[lowman20]

Winning the award for a second time is a great accomplisment and all of you are correct in judging his character. He has been delt some tough cards at times and still pushes on day to day with the same approach.

[Chuck Taylor]

Alright jetp, I know you're not exactly a fan of mine on this board -- I've never challenged any of your critical comments on here about my coaching...but this one is over the line.

1. "Word on the street"??? Where could you have possibly gotten any kind of information that I would have somehow tried to HURT Daniel Harmon's chances for ANY award? He's actually one of the few players I promoted to other coaches at an area meeting as deserving of 1st team ALL-STATE recognition!

2. The voting for District Player and Coach of the year was done by EMAIL by coaches in the district sent to Mark Dixon of Hazard. There was no chance for "lobbying" by coaches for ANY player to have received it (though if I would have been able, I think I'd have been smart enough to lobby for my own player that would be the REPEAT WINNER and rushed for OVER 2,000 YARDS this year).

3. Your "word on the street" is more than likely YOU coming up with something to try and disparage me as you have something to gain by my not being here next year. It is EASY and COWARDLY to hide ANONYMOUSLY behind a made-up screen name and damage a coach's reputation by professing to have "heard" something he'd done with ZERO proof of it.

Thank GOD Daniel is one of the highest-charactered and BEST ALL AROUND kids I've ever coached, or I'd be worried your comment might have damaged me in his eyes.

I'm available at the school after 2:00pm to discuss this with you, face to face, man-to-man, using real names. As civil as you want it to be. But if you have the GUTS to back up your "word on the street" (which I realize makes it easy for you to back out of it saying YOU didn't say it yourself, and you're just 'repeating someone else') to me without hiding anonymously behind a screen name, I'll be waiting.

If this is truly the coach then this is sad. As a coach you need to take the high road and understand that fans are going to disagree with many decisions that are made. Bottom line is that the Freshmen class made a statement when the majority did not play. They do not like the coaching staff. As they often say "changes are a coming".

[Chuck Taylor]

I know this is between Jetpilot and CoachJ but i can't help but say that Jetpilot has finally been confronted about his open criticism to someway put down the Pikeville Football program and make it seem that everything he says is right....Hopefully now everyone else will realize half the stuff he has posted is untrue and very biased and they wont pay it any attention

Sorry Jetpilot, but you have met your match...and i think you have lost...i fully expect you to continue hiding behind your name and harassing Pikeville Football like a coward

Very good posts Coach J!

I disagree. Many people are speaking. Changes are a coming.

[UKRULES]

Did Pikeville Independent follow suit as well? They dont have to follow any rules set forth by the Pike Co BOE. I am not quite so sure that that policy is not something that could be legally challanged anyways if someone really wanted to press the issue far enough.

It's of my opinion anyways that a kid has no business graduating from high school at 17 years of age.

To be honest, Pike Co sort of forced Pikeville to do some of this. They refused to let them play any player in the county playoffs or the county basketball tournament if they had stayed in the same grade for two years. They did this several years ago, then when one group, Parrish, Shurtleff and a couple of others were in 8th, they got to play, but they were the last ones. So it has been in effect since that time.

[UKRULES]

If this is truly the coach then this is sad. As a coach you need to take the high road and understand that fans are going to disagree with many decisions that are made. Bottom line is that the Freshmen class made a statement when the majority did not play. They do not like the coaching staff. As they often say "changes are a coming".

Oh this is the real thing. He reads this stuff, and I don't know if I would if I were in his position, but that's his decision. He doesn't respond often, but when he does, its because he has something to say.

The beauty of these forums is it gives people a voice...and believe me, it is heard. By lots of people...coaches, parents, players, administrators...

Good or bad, I really don't know, but it is FUN!

[Asst.Coach42]

CoachJ is accurate in his description of the meeting of coaches. I was at the meeting and even asked him myself to way in on the discussion of his two named players (and #2 was not one of them). We felt he knew his team better than anyone and wanted his opinion. CoachJ matter of factly (along with his staff in attendance) stated that he would not try to sway the discussion to one side. He was loyal to both of them, and had nothing but praise for his players. Again, I was there, and CoachJ's account is dead on ACCURATE.

[HAIL PIKEVILLE!]

Changes are a coming.

Do you have any proof of this or is this just more "word on the street" talk?

[HAIL PIKEVILLE!]

I disagree. Many people are speaking. Changes are a coming.

Its true many people are talking but they arent talking out of their mouths. They are talking out of another body part thats located a few feet below their mouth:moon:
Im gonna set the record straight right now.
Whoever started the rumor that Jackson dont want his kids playing other sports is a LIAR!
Ive heard Coach J numerous times not only permit his kids to play other sports but actually encourage it when he is addressing them as a team. Whoever repeated these rumors I blame them for being so GUTLESS that they wouldnt even have the cojunes to talk to him personally about this instead of just taking everybody elses word for it.
As for the Freshmen who didnt play all Im saying is that yes we will miss them but in the long run in life THEY will be the ones who regret not playing because Ive never met a person in my life who quit any sport in high school that didnt regret it later on. And as far as the people who want a coaching change because a few 15 year old kids dont like the coach let me ask this. Are you leading your kids or are they leading you? Im sure there were plenty of freshmen who didnt like Hillard Howard but they played anyway because they had parents who told them to suck it up, quit whining and be man instead of a child who wants to take his ball and go home when things dont go his way.
And about Coach J giving a kid a rough time because he chooses to put himself over the TEAM by partcipating in a MEANINGLESS intermural baseball game that has nothing to do with the school. No coach in their right mind would be happy about a kid putting hiself in harms way in some non school related sporting event while the school team is counting on them. We here in Pikeville are at a crossroads right now and we must decide. Do we want a football program that contends for state titles every year like we used to.
OR do we want to be a program where the Coaches have to only do the type of workouts and practices the players want to do and only when they feel like doing it. This is the choice before us at this time. Put in simple terms. Should we be Pikeville or Should we be more like the COUNTY SCHOOLS???????? THINK ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!!

[CoachJ]

If this is truly the coach then this is sad. As a coach you need to take the high road and understand that fans are going to disagree with many decisions that are made. Bottom line is that the Freshmen class made a statement when the majority did not play. They do not like the coaching staff. As they often say "changes are a coming".

As it is after school now and I have some time, I'll respond and actually agree with you on several things you said...

I am truly the coach. You are entitled to your opinion that it is "sad" for me to post something on a message board -- and I agree that it is indeed sad as I shouldn't have this much free time on the last Friday in November. But just like I told our team during the first drive at LCA last week, turnovers can spell doom for any team -- no matter how physically dominant you are.

But I will let you know that many MANY HS head coaches read message boards like this to monitor what their players are saying that they shouldn't and to try and parse out the occassional "legitimate news" about HS football that might apply to their program.

Many coaches actually POST as well -- they often do it in a "defensive" way in response to some kind of criticism posted about their play-calling, personnel decisions, etc.

Only about THREE besides myself though actually come out and say that they are who they are. I state openly who I am because it ensures that I cannot cowardly hide behind anonymity when I post; it makes me very careful and HONEST about what I post because I know that I will be held accountable for what I say publicly.

Further, I do choose to "take the high road" by RARELY ever posting anything (I think this is my 15th post or so in 3 years of being at Pikeville)...and I NEVER post in response to simple "disagreements" on my coaching decisions (otherwise, I'd have had to make about 500 posts ). I try only to post when there is something written THAT IS A FALSEHOOD that also disparages players or coaches on my team.

I did not respond to any kind of "disagreement" about decisions that have been made. Rather it was only to directly refute FALSE statements that seemed to be an attempt by one or two that always seem to post ONLY to if it will create negativity around our program. In this instance, it was that I "screwed over" one of my players for an award (when I had actually promoted him for it), that I "keep my players from playing summer baseball" (when I actually ENCOURAGE players to play other sports and actually POSTPONED 7on7 football to allow baseball/basketball kids not to have too many summer obligations), and that we practice "4 or 5 hours" (actually 2hours, 55 minutes on the LONGEST days we practice).

The REAL reason a lot of Frosh chose not to play this year: there's a lot of MISINFORMATION being spread on boards like this -- possibly in an attempt to spread negativity and KEEP players from wanting to play. Like it or not (and I don't), but kids read these boards. If people are going to spread MISinformation (like stuff about us making our youngest kids BOX against our biggest, strongest SENIORS or that we're AGAINST players playing summer baseball) on this board and kids can read it, SOMEBODY that knows the truth should refute it ON THIS BOARD.

Maybe responding with some TRUTH to these rumors and lies is why this week we've had about 20 9th-graders-to-be ( a GREAT class of potential football kids) come tell us they want to switch into a PE class where they can start lifting to get ready for next season (not to mention 5 of last year's frosh that chose not to play are telling us that they are probably coming out for football again next year -- it is not uncommon for Frosh to opt to sit out that first year in HS and then come out their Soph year. That would give us a Soph class of TWELVE).

It may be true that "changes are coming" -- and as I've said before, I care about this program enough that if the problem is ME and my requirement that kids not in another sport work to get better in the off-season, I will gladly step aside so someone that can do it better gets that chance (they did that at my former school where we averaged 8.5 wins a year for 8 years to now averaging 3.5 wins the last 3) -- but unless you're in the administration at PHS, it seems you would only want to post such a thing to further stir up even MORE negativity (the main thing keeping young players from wanting to play). Otherwise, this looks to be more "word on the street."

So I ask you, are you REALLY wanting what's best for PHS football...or do you have some OTHER motive??

[CoachJ]

posted same thing twice for some reason

[CoachJ]

By the way, my overall hope is that ChuckT. and jetpilot and a few others that have posted some criticisms about our program that I feel are based on misinformation are doing it because they are truly SUPPORTERS of PHS football, and that they REALLY want what's best for PHS football.

If that's the case, I know their posts will tend more toward the POSITIVE than the NEGATIVE.

Further, I hope you would come by as a supporter and discuss all these things in an open, civil forum. We have a boosters meeting in the cafeteria of the school at 6:00pm on Tues., Dec. 4, and I'll be glad to answer any and all questions about how we run our program at that time. Hope to talk to you there! ...and GO PANTHERS.

[Dazed&Confused]

Coach J is a class act and any of you cowards on here that speak otherwise, don't truly know him. Instead of hiding on here and criticizing him, maybe you should take him up on his offer and talk face to face with him. Maybe...just maybe...then you will understand his antics and realize that he is doing what is best for PHS Football.

Until then, you can keep saying whatever on here because you know he doesn't know who you really are...So when you post the anonymous, untrue, statements all he can do is defend himself on a message board.

If you are man enough to post your thoughts on here, then you should be man enough to talk to him face to face and discuss your opinion...Then, i feel that a lot of negativity will be resolved and these biased posts will be cut down on.

But what do i know???

Good luck Panthers and keep up the hard work in the off-season... I am anxious to see what all new players have decided to come out for this upcoming season...I hope to see them in the weight room very soon!