[thecavemaster]

I keep hearing in the questioning of Gen. David
Petraeus the comment that 50% of the US casualties
were in or near Anbar Province and that the "surge"
has reduced that number greatly. However, only
5% of the Iraqi population lives in or near the
Anbar province. Like the man who steals your lawn
mower and tells you it was for your own good, as you
might cut your foot off, the "USA ain't nothin' but
good" crowd apparently cannot admit we have stolen
peace and security for the majority of Iraqis and
given them the concept of "democracy." I think
most people would prefer consistent electricity and
no bombs going off in public markets to an esoteric
concept.

[Beef]

I keep hearing in the questioning of Gen. David
Petraeus the comment that 50% of the US casualties
were in or near Anbar Province and that the "surge"
has reduced that number greatly. However, only
5% of the Iraqi population lives in or near the
Anbar province. Like the man who steals your lawn
mower and tells you it was for your own good, as you
might cut your foot off, the "USA ain't nothin' but
good" crowd apparently cannot admit we have stolen
peace and security for the majority of Iraqis and
given them the concept of "democracy." I think
most people would prefer consistent electricity and
no bombs going off in public markets to an esoteric
concept.

I'm not sure about that. Many, many are thankful for having to live under the Sadam regime and worry about being killed by their own government. These drastic changes take time. More and More Iraqis are buying into this but you will have those that are still against it, ie. those supported by the Iranian government.

[thecavemaster]

I'm not sure about that. Many, many are thankful for having to live under the Sadam regime and worry about being killed by their own government. These drastic changes take time. More and More Iraqis are buying into this but you will have those that are still against it, ie. those supported by the Iranian government.

The last poll I saw, with a margin of error of +/- 4, was
that 65% of Iraqis thought it o.k to kill an American. As
in Vietnam, when your children are sick from Agent Orange,
your grandfather is dead from a bomb, your cousin's
daughter died from diahhrhea from lack of medicine, it's
hard to know who the enemy is. War is not a concept or
philosophical principle to those in the midst of it. War
wears a human face, which, when thousands of miles away,
at a local pub or the mall, is easy to forget. Also, a
whole lot of Iraqis would like some form of moderate
Islamic government (polls suggest without variance). We
Westerners don't seem to understand that not all people
in the world understand separation of church and state
as we do, nor should they have to if they do not
desire. I know this: if my son or daughter died at
the hands of "liberators," I would be angry...and
thinking "what strange liberation is this?"

[Fenix]

Thanks for the geography lesson.

[Beef]

Who is conducting these polls?

[thecavemaster]

Who is conducting these polls?

These polls were conducted (I believe) by the independent
Iraqi Research Group...I am not sure who that is, or
who might support it, but I have heard these polls
referenced on CNN, Fox News, Senate Armed Services
hearings. We are an occupying force...Baghdad is
plagued with violence, long electricity blackouts,
medicine shortages, HUGE gas lines...in short, the
things we take for granted, they don't have...though
they did before the occupation. Freedom of speech,
of political expression...these are concepts that
don't mean much when you have no medicine, wait
nine hours for gas, and stump your toe in the
dark because the electric is out...again. Truth
is, we wouldn't like it either...but, of course,
all this requires a depth of vision and "see it
from their perspective" that an awful lot of folks
don't possess.