[thecavemaster]

Here's something I don't get: cheerleaders have
competitions with lots of different categories.
A squad might compete in a category and be the
only squad in that group. Then, at the end of the
competition, they announce that that squad is the
"champion" of that group, or "came in first place."
Then, they put it in the paper that they "won" their
division. I never realized that you could actually
be "champion" of a one team tournament.

[cheerforblue]

they it just the way it is done. In some competitions,as in all-star, you still come in first but you have to have a certain score to go on to some of the national competitions. But in high school sometime in is just luck that there is no other team. That doesn't mean that you wouldn't win anyway. The divisions are set up by number of girls on squads, to try to make it MORE fair, because a small team cannot do what a medium or large team can do. It doesn't mean that the small team has less talent only that they can't perform some of the harder stunts because of numbers. There are some small teams that have lots of talent but could never do what a large team can do (stunts).It is only done to try to give ever team a shot at winning.

[thecavemaster]

they it just the way it is done. In some competitions,as in all-star, you still come in first but you have to have a certain score to go on to some of the national competitions. But in high school sometime in is just luck that there is no other team. That doesn't mean that you wouldn't win anyway. The divisions are set up by number of girls on squads, to try to make it MORE fair, because a small team cannot do what a medium or large team can do. It doesn't mean that the small team has less talent only that they can't perform some of the harder stunts because of numbers. There are some small teams that have lots of talent but could never do what a large team can do (stunts).It is only done to try to give ever team a shot at winning.

I hear you...but, isn't that why a lot of sports in Kentucky
have classes, so that smaller schools don't get
overwhelmed by numbers? Still, I think it is somewhat
misleading and dishonest to report being a "champion"
when no other squads were competing in one's category.
I am not discussing "fairness" here. I am not discussing
"talent" here. I am suggesting that the ego leads squads
and squad leaders to leave out that little detail in
announcements at school or in the papers about how
the title was won WITHOUT any rival squads competing.

[cheerforblue]

And your point is?????

[thecavemaster]

And your point is?????

My point is simply that which is stated: if I take
a group of players to a tournament, go onto the
floor and find no opponent, so on and so forth,
at the end, am declared the "winner"... go home
and put in the paper and announce at school that
my team won the championship in our division...
I have been somewhat less than forthcoming if I
do not add that no other teams were competing.
That's the only point. It doesn't mean my team
did not work hard. it doesn't mean my team is not
talented. It doesn't mean my team is not athletic.
It simply means we won a division in which we were
the only competitor, which isn't actually winning,
it seems to me. Competition requires competitiors,
doesn't it?

[cheerdad]

My point is simply that which is stated: if I take
a group of players to a tournament, go onto the
floor and find no opponent, so on and so forth,
at the end, am declared the "winner"... go home
and put in the paper and announce at school that
my team won the championship in our division...
I have been somewhat less than forthcoming if I
do not add that no other teams were competing.
That's the only point. It doesn't mean my team
did not work hard. it doesn't mean my team is not
talented. It doesn't mean my team is not athletic.
It simply means we won a division in which we were
the only competitor, which isn't actually winning,
it seems to me. Competition requires competitiors,
doesn't it?

Whose fault is it that there are no other teams/squads in a specific division? The only squad that is in that particular division or the other teams that cannot, due to rules and regulations keep them from competing in a particular division? So, if there is only one squad in a division, only because there is not another squad that qualifies to be in that division, you are saying that that only squad has not the right tosay they won???? It wasn't their fault there wasn't anyone else in that division. Would it be fair for them to change their whole routine, cut members from their squad who have worked as hard as everyone else on the squad, just so a team can compete is a smaller division? Now, on the other hand, it would be easier and fair to all people involved to add members to a team to compete in a larger division because no one is getting cut after a year of practice, hard work and dedication.

[thecavemaster]

Whose fault is it that there are no other teams/squads in a specific division? The only squad that is in that particular division or the other teams that cannot, due to rules and regulations keep them from competing in a particular division? So, if there is only one squad in a division, only because there is not another squad that qualifies to be in that division, you are saying that that only squad has not the right tosay they won???? It wasn't their fault there wasn't anyone else in that division. Would it be fair for them to change their whole routine, cut members from their squad who have worked as hard as everyone else on the squad, just so a team can compete is a smaller division? Now, on the other hand, it would be easier and fair to all people involved to add members to a team to compete in a larger division because no one is getting cut after a year of practice, hard work and dedication.

My point is not to question hard work, which cheerleaders
do plenty of. I am not suggesting lack of work. I am not
questioning dedication. You are answering arguments that
have not been made. My only point is this: when person
A says to person B, "We were the champions of the small
squad, two minute routine division," it creates an impression
in the mind of person B. That impression is misleading
when no other squads competed in that division. It is
not the fault of any squad, nor does it diminish their
hard work and dedication. BUT it is misleading
because one does not "win" when there are no
competitors. If I play one on one basketball
against myself, and you see me playing, and I
come up to you and tell you "I won out there,"
wouldn't you find that a little odd? That's my
only point.

[BballRox1135]

I completely agree. Formerly coming from a team who almost always ended up in their own division because there are very few teams that match the setup of this one, I know what this is like. Our team hated that we always ended up by ourselves. It was more like and expo of our routine and not a competition. We would get so pumped when we found out we had another team in our division, it made us want to work even harder. Those were the only times that we would put an ad in the newspaper about winning. We would get disgusted at teams who put that they won, in their own division, because if we did that we would look like the best team in the world, lol. We had bunches of trophies but never felt that we had earned them. I agree that if you were in your own division, don't go brag about it to people, you should rather brag that you earned x amount of points for certain things in the routine, or even earned most creative, or best stunt sequence or something.
But when we knew we had no competition, we would also try to get the most points we could, because some competitions give trophies for highest score of the day, and that trophy is better than first in your division to me.

[ECgirl]

I completely agree. Formerly coming from a team who almost always ended up in their own division because there are very few teams that match the setup of this one, I know what this is like. Our team hated that we always ended up by ourselves. It was more like and expo of our routine and not a competition. We would get so pumped when we found out we had another team in our division, it made us want to work even harder. Those were the only times that we would put an ad in the newspaper about winning. We would get disgusted at teams who put that they won, in their own division, because if we did that we would look like the best team in the world, lol. We had bunches of trophies but never felt that we had earned them. I agree that if you were in your own division, don't go brag about it to people, you should rather brag that you earned x amount of points for certain things in the routine, or even earned most creative, or best stunt sequence or something.
But when we knew we had no competition, we would also try to get the most points we could, because some competitions give trophies for highest score of the day, and that trophy is better than first in your division to me.

Exactly. Thats why estill didnt brag about winning. they bragged about having the 2nd highest score of the competition. [like you said] And i do agree, whenever you have no other team to compete against if feels like you are just performing for a crowd & that its no big deal. But it is the truth, you cant help if no other team competes in that specific division. In High School Cheerleading most coaches dont even annouce what division their team is competing in until the last kapos meeting. So nobody really knows..its starting to turn into where everything is a secret...kinda wierd. But in allstar competitions they usually give out more awards other than 1st 2nd 3rd..& so one like you mentioned. Cheerleading is just one of those things thats never going to have an exact explanation. lol

[thecavemaster]

My last post on this: cheerleaders work hard, take a lot of crap, endure a lot
of wear and tear on their bodies and are often more athletic than athletes in
other sports. With that said, I think KAPOS needs to address some things and
get a little more uniformity in their competitions. Perhaps they could work with
the KHSAA to reduce the number of categories, or come up with a scoring system
that factors in number of cheerleaders...or set parameters for each division...