[rookie57]

How many loses will the SEC champions have? What say you?

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I really meant to say conference loses.

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And if I May add, who you think will win the conference, not the tournament, the conference?

[King Kong]

The SEC this year is kinda shaping up like the Big East and ACC have in the past.  Even the teams that finished in the middle of those conferences,  were threats to make long tournament runs.  I can't remember the year,  but UCONN was kinda in the middle of the conference pack.  It was said they would need to win the conference tournament to make the big dance.  You talk about a team getting hot at the right time.  They won the conference tournament,  made the NCAA tournament.  Got to the final 4 and won the national championship.  

I believe the SEC will be like that this year.  Might lead the nation with the most teams making the tournament. I guess the SEC in basketball this year,  will be about like the Sec in football has been for years now. 

I'm obviously partial to UK! Based on what I've seen from them thus far,  we give ourselves a shot at being atop the Sec.  Teams like Tennessee,  Alabama,  Auburn,  really jump out to me.  As threats to win the conference.  I know I'm missing several others at the moment. 

This might be a year where a sec team has a 500 or 50/50 conference record,  makes the tournament.  If someone has a just over 500 conference record,  at the moment believe they definitely get in.  This based on overall strength of the SEC going into conference play.

[rookie57]

I’m thinking auburn is the best, and it wouldn’t surprise me if they have 5 SEC LOSES.

[Bluecat]

Can't remember a conference being this dominant in basketball. The bottom feeders of the conference will be good enough to win the conference championship this year. Gonna be a lot of losses amongst the conference due to the competition this season. Just hope the tough games each night doesn't take a toll on how they do in the NCAA tournament.

[Van Hagar]

After yesterday’s games, the SEC is 143-20 overall so far this season! That is just mind boggling. South Carolina is the only team with more than two losses, and they are a solid 7-3. I think a strong argument could be made that this is the best league, top to bottom, in NCAA history. And can you imagine what the SEC tournament is gonna be like if everyone takes it seriously? Better than the NCAA tournament.

[rookie57]

I think it’s twice In 3 weeks the SEC was 13-1 and 14-1

[Bluecat]

Winning the SEC may be tougher than winning the NCAA championship this year. My biggest worry is how it will affect the teams going into the NCAA Tournament.

[-STAT-]

SEC teams combined record so far in the month of December, 50-4.

[-STAT-]

Winning the SEC may be tougher than winning the NCAA championship this year. My biggest worry is how it will affect the teams going into the NCAA Tournament.

I agree, it will either be a benefit as teams will handle adversity easier, and could easily matchup with any opponent in the tournament especially outside of conference, or will be a burden, mainly due to the physicality of most of the teams in the league, a team may have an injury to key player(s) during tournament time.

[TheTruth!]

SEC teams combined record so far in the month of December, 50-4.

That’s impressive

[Cactus Jack]

SEC is the best conference top to bottom, and right now it doesn't look like it's close. Don't know that this doesn't change during the year or that it isn't a bit of a perfect storm of: the league investing in coaching years ago, teams scheduling down, and a bit of luck, but I'll be clear: the SEC has some paper tigers.

Oklahoma is currently tied with Michigan with 2:00 left in regulation) is 10-0 and #14 overall. They have some nice wins, they don't have any that jump out at you (had discussed Arizona in another thread, and Georgia Tech, Oklahoma State, and Providence may be good, but they aren't setting the world on fire right now either). Even if they pull it out, every SEC team can't beat Michigan too.

Florida is also undefeated and sitting at #7, but they haven't beaten a team that's currently ranked (though beating North Carolina in Charlotte might as well be a top 25 type win). They were really good last year until the injury bug hit. I watched the North Carolina game and they are real, but they are NOT a top 5-8 type team-- they're a team that can beat a top 5-8 type team in the right match-up.

Ole Miss will probably be really good, but they're 10-1 with a loss to Purdue and their best win may be a 20+ point victory over Louisville. Like him or not, Chris Beard doesn't seem to make a habit of losing. But I think it's fair to say that they're untested at this point. Vegas gives them the 10th (of 16) best odds to win the conference regular season. They're likely a tournament team that gets some big wins with all the shots they'll have, but I think the consensus seems to be that they end up somewhere between the #6-12 seed line.

Vanderbilt has one loss (to Drake) but they've otherwise had TCU and their schedule has some bad Power 5 teams (read: 3-5 Virginia Tech and 5-7 Seton Hall) and a pretty soft schedule.

LSU may be great, but they haven't beaten anyone who was ranked at the time. One of their biggest wins is Florida State-- for reference, the Seminoles beat Northern Kentucky by 8 early in the season. They did beat Kansas State in Manhattan, so I don't want to eat my words later, but they're going to need to win some games in SEC play (and in the conference tournament) to get a bid.

Texas lost to Ohio State and UConn. If anyone can name a single coach or player on any other team that they've beaten without looking it up, I'll send you a cookie. Any takers on that, because I can't even tell you the city or state that some of their opponents are in if it isn't in their name, much less their mascot (Houston Christian, Chicago St., Mississippi Valley State, Delaware State, New Mexico State, & Arkansas Pine-Bluff are six of their nine wins.... Syracuse, NC State, and St. Joseph's are the other three).

Mississippi State blew out a then-ranked Pitt team. Like 90-57, straight-up beat down. Pitt beat Ohio State and West Virginia. Their only other loss is to then #17 Wisconsin by 6. I haven't watched, nor can I immediately glean anything from this result other than saying it's an outlier.

Missouri beat Kansas in a rivalry game. That's impressive. What isn't as impressive is an 11 point win over 6-5 Jacksonville State that is probably more indicative of what type of team you'll usually see with them.

Georgia has beaten Grand Canyon and St. John's-- those are pretty good wins. They beat Notre Dame, who doesn't have a great record, but their losses to Houston, Creighton, and Rutgers (who has a great freshman class) are ones that even some of the best teams could have taken in a one-off. Texas Southern is a #14-16 seed type NCAA team in lots of years, so that win is worth something as well. Their only loss is to a top 10-20 level Marquette team by 11 in the Bahamas. They might have the best resume of the mid to lower-tier SEC teams, but no one is really talking about them.

South Carolina REALLY helped the league's profile with a home win against Clemson in a rivalry game, especially considering Kentucky's loss to them. They're one of the teams projected to finish at or near the bottom of the conference and had lost to Xavier and a terrible (but somehow ranked) Indiana team. It may not seem like it to us, but I'd say that in terms of metrics (and what the data probably doesn't account for... i.e., long standing rivalries and the emotional aspect of games and scheduling), it's going to mean a lot to the computers when one of the better SEC teams is beaten by South Carolina. Same goes for teams who drop games to Missouri (who beat Kansas).


Blurbs about teams I haven't mentioned in detail:

Alabama: Legit. See the last sentence on Auburn below and then consider that they also get Kentucky and Mississippi State twice.

Auburn: Very Legit. I'll give them the best odds to win the conference regular season and tournament by far. Beat Houston in Houston (even though it's a "neutral site"). Beat Iowa State & North Carolina in Maui in back-to-back games. Crushed Ohio State. Only loss is to Duke by 6 in Cameron. By far the best resume in the nation right now. Tough conference schedule to get Alabama, Ole Miss, and Georgia twice, but it could be worse. If they stay healthy, they're a heavy favorite to reach the Final Four and can win the national title. If nothing else, some of the other contenders I like have some serious issues (Houston: always injured late; Gonzaga: always chokes; Marquette & Iowa St.: not quite there yet; Kansas: not the type of talent and dominance that you usually see in their championship teams; UConn: pressure of three-peating and Hurley's making officials hate him).

Texas A&M: Wins over Creighton, Rutgers, Purdue, and a then-ranked Ohio State mean they're a tournament team unless the wheels absolutely fall off. Probably going to wind up on the #4-9 seed line, but they have a nice resume. Don't see them as a threat to win the conference, but they'll pull a really big upset and beat the teams they should.

Kentucky: We talk about them plenty in every other thread.

Arkansas: Who coaches them? How does he feel about his team? I hear they get Texas, LSU, and Missouri twice. Pretty favorable to wind up anywhere from the #5-#10 line according to how they do against everyone else. They'll need a big win against an Auburn, Alabama, or Tennessee and another resume builder, but there's nothing in Cal's history to say he can't pull that off.

Tennessee: I'd rather have John Calipari coaching my team than Rick Barnes. Let that sink in.

[Granny Bear]

"Tennessee: I'd rather have John Calipari coaching my team than Rick Barnes. Let that sink in."

I don't have to let it sink in; shocked my socks clean off my feet!!!
I would love for you to expand on that comment.

[rookie57]

"Tennessee: I'd rather have John Calipari coaching my team than Rick Barnes. Let that sink in."

I don't have to let it sink in; shocked my socks clean off my feet!!!
I would love for you to expand on that comment.

What’d I miss?

[Old School Hound]

If Rick "I am so mediocre" Barnes was a dressing, he would be nothing more upscale than ranch. Dude couldn't even win with the best player on the planet . Somehow he directed Texas and Durant to a 10-loss season and early round exit. In their primes, Cal was way better than ranch dressing.

[Bluecat]

Auburn right now is the team to beat in the SEC. Still a lot of basketball left.

[rookie57]

Auburn right now is the team to beat in the SEC. Still a lot of basketball left.

I agree but I don’t think they will go thru the sec gauntlet without losing about 4 games

[Old School Hound]

Does UK win its SEC opener?

[Cactus Jack]

"Tennessee: I'd rather have John Calipari coaching my team than Rick Barnes. Let that sink in."

I don't have to let it sink in; shocked my socks clean off my feet!!!
I would love for you to expand on that comment.

I've always felt Barnes was almost criminally overrated. Nothing about his results "scream" great coach-- I've always thought of him as a guy who can recruit well enough in the right situation and win regular season games, but will choke in the Tournament.

To me, the ultimate test of a coach is going through their history and making a list of their teams that ultimately overachieved or underachieved. He has very few teams that I'd consider overachievers. He's been at "football schools" throughout his career (Clemson, Texas, and Tennessee), so it isn't as if the expectations have ever been out of this world.

If you want to see him at his worst, watch his late game execution in last year's Maui Tournament against Purdue. He was just making some really head scratching decisions; it was bad enough that both the announcers and the post-game crew back in the studio were making very PC "not sure I understand the logic there" and/or "did he think he was only down three points" type comments. This was the same Purdue team that ended up beating him out of the tournament.

The University of Texas is one of the most powerful brands in all of college sports, and had some decently talented teams, but only made one Final Four in 2003. To get to that Final Four, he beat a fifth seeded UConn and seventh seeded Michigan State in a regional final in San Antonio (which is less than 70 miles from his campus and had an enormous amount of Texas fans making it a de facto home game). Not saying he didn't earn it, because he could only beat the teams in front of him, but he had LOTS of things fall his way to get there. He was fired by Texas after failing to get back to the Sweet 16 in seven straight seasons.

Other than the Final Four at Texas, he has supposedly had some great "built for March" teams at Tennessee and has exactly one Final Four to show for it. The rest of his results at Tennessee are listed below (you'll see a trend of upsets to double digit seeds).

2023 - came in as a #4, lost to 9th seeded FAU
2022 - came in as a #3, lost to 11th seeded Michigan
2021 - came in as a #5, lost to 12th seeded Oregon State
2020 - COVID (he was 17-14 on the season)
2019 - came in as a #2, lost to 3rd seeded Purdue
2018 - came in as a #3, lost to 11th seeded Loyola-Chicago
2017 - missed the NCAA Tournament (finished 16-16)
2016 - missed the NCAA Tournament (finished 15-19)

In summary, in nine seasons at Tennessee he was beaten out by a single digit seed three times, with one of those single digit seeds being a #9. It isn't as if he was coming in as a #6-9 and getting upset either, his seed lines were 2-3-3-4-5.


If he can turn it around at Tennessee and get to some more Final Fours or even win a Championship, I may eat my words, but he's got a resume of nearly 40 seasons as this point and I've never understood all the hype. He's the kind of guy who has historically been able to win a lot of regular season basketball games at a football school, nothing more, nothing less.

I'm seriously baffled by anyone who has ever been on the "fire Stoops" and the fire Calipari and replace him with Rick Barnes" trains because it seems to be a pretty contradictory position.

[Old School Hound]

"Tennessee: I'd rather have John Calipari coaching my team than Rick Barnes. Let that sink in."

I don't have to let it sink in; shocked my socks clean off my feet!!!
I would love for you to expand on that comment.

I've always felt Barnes was almost criminally overrated. Nothing about his results "scream" great coach-- I've always thought of him as a guy who can recruit well enough in the right situation and win regular season games, but will choke in the Tournament.

To me, the ultimate test of a coach is going through their history and making a list of their teams that ultimately overachieved or underachieved. He has very few teams that I'd consider overachievers. He's been at "football schools" throughout his career (Clemson, Texas, and Tennessee), so it isn't as if the expectations have ever been out of this world.

If you want to see him at his worst, watch his late game execution in last year's Maui Tournament against Purdue. He was just making some really head scratching decisions; it was bad enough that both the announcers and the post-game crew back in the studio were making very PC "not sure I understand the logic there" and/or "did he think he was only down three points" type comments. This was the same Purdue team that ended up beating him out of the tournament.

The University of Texas is one of the most powerful brands in all of college sports, and had some decently talented teams, but only made one Final Four in 2003. To get to that Final Four, he beat a fifth seeded UConn and seventh seeded Michigan State in a regional final in San Antonio (which is less than 70 miles from his campus and had an enormous amount of Texas fans making it a de facto home game). Not saying he didn't earn it, because he could only beat the teams in front of him, but he had LOTS of things fall his way to get there. He was fired by Texas after failing to get back to the Sweet 16 in seven straight seasons.

Other than the Final Four at Texas, he has supposedly had some great "built for March" teams at Tennessee and has exactly one Final Four to show for it. The rest of his results at Tennessee are listed below (you'll see a trend of upsets to double digit seeds).

2023 - came in as a #4, lost to 9th seeded FAU
2022 - came in as a #3, lost to 11th seeded Michigan
2021 - came in as a #5, lost to 12th seeded Oregon State
2020 - COVID (he was 17-14 on the season)
2019 - came in as a #2, lost to 3rd seeded Purdue
2018 - came in as a #3, lost to 11th seeded Loyola-Chicago
2017 - missed the NCAA Tournament (finished 16-16)
2016 - missed the NCAA Tournament (finished 15-19)

In summary, in nine seasons at Tennessee he was beaten out by a single digit seed three times, with one of those single digit seeds being a #9. It isn't as if he was coming in as a #6-9 and getting upset either, his seed lines were 2-3-3-4-5.


If he can turn it around at Tennessee and get to some more Final Fours or even win a Championship, I may eat my words, but he's got a resume of nearly 40 seasons as this point and I've never understood all the hype. He's the kind of guy who has historically been able to win a lot of regular season basketball games at a football school, nothing more, nothing less.

I'm seriously baffled by anyone who has ever been on the "fire Stoops" and the fire Calipari and replace him with Rick Barnes" trains because it seems to be a pretty contradictory position.

Great post by BGR's best roundball writer.  Barnes is historically underwhelming once the regular season ends.  His teams peter out in the postseason. Advancing no further than second round with Kevin Durant leading your team should be a crime against humanity. Barnes seems like a nice man but nice men tend to suck when the calendar deep dives into March.

[Granny Bear]

Thanks Jack! I haven't researched him nearly as much as you have.
I appreciate you answer!

[Old School Hound]

Thanks Jack!  I haven't researched him nearly as much as you have.
I appreciate you answer!

Cactus is my basketball guru, and one of my favorite professional wrestlers.

[Cactus Jack]

Thanks Jack! I haven't researched him nearly as much as you have.
I appreciate you answer!

No problem.

I'll say this-- it just always confused the hell out of me to see Kentucky fans thinking that he should be the guy to replace Calipari. This probably came from his being able to beat Calipari with less talented teams-- teams with the ingredients that Kentucky fans had been calling for (more experience, less roster turnover, etc.). I was just never able to equate that with his being a good fit for Kentucky, or even being a good coach.

Before last March, people usually said "but he took Texas to the Final Four" but really glossed over how favorable his path there was and how much he almost backed into that one. I can tell you with certainty that no one in Austin or within their alumni base seems to miss him.

Pope obviously looks like he's working out, but when we talked about potential replacements for Calipari throughout the years, I had names like Bruce Pearl and Scott Drew way ahead of Barnes in terms of personal preference (we'll forget that Chris Beard was #1 because we didn't know then what we know now). I can see why people might have a problem with Pearl being a little too slippery for their liking, but he laid the foundation for Barnes at Tennessee, has worked a small miracle at Auburn, and is a great in-game coach. Barnes was able to come in after him (and Cuonzo Martin) and maintain some of that momentum, but I don't think he's done anything to elevate them past what Pearl built (especially if you are looking at what Pearl probably would have done had he been able to stay). Drew is another "football school" guy who inherited an outright mess and turned it into a national championship (and they were the best team that season).

Tennessee is probably going to be his last stop, but Barnes has always struck me as more of a "safe" hire for a school like a Penn State, Minnesota, South Carolina, Georgia, or LSU. He's been around long enough that he's a known quantity and will be able to do well enough without making you worry that he's blatantly breaking the rules. He doesn't seem to be prickly in the media or to be the type to be overly flashy or to do things that will rock the boat within your Athletics Department. He'll boost your regular season win total and consistently get you into the tournament within a few years, which is usually more than enough for those schools. But I wouldn't count on him to make a lot of noise in the tournament, and if he does, it seems to be the exception, not the rule.

If I'm an AD that has inherited an absolute dumpster fire and I have limited resources but want to win a national championship in basketball at some point in the next 15-20 years, I'd be interested in having him come in for a limited time to stabilize the program and build credibility. I'd do this with every intention of making the program much more attractive for the next hire I'd have to make and hope that he'd done enough for the profile of the program that I would have a legitimate chance at landing the next Dan Hurley (pre-UConn), Billy Donovan (pre-Florida), etc. If you look at it this way, then LSU might have been well-served to hire Barnes instead of Will Wade.