[Old School Hound]

Let me say first off that I m a fan of 13th region basketball and have been since the early seventies. And because I am a fan of 13th region basketball and its history, I am a fan of the Clay County Tigers.  I can remember listening to every game of the 13th region tournaments throughout the seventies on WCTT- AM in Corbin.  Clay would win most of those regional tournaments and Don Estep would interview Coach Keith after each tournament win. I always rooted the Tigers on in the Sweet Sixteen and was thrilled when they finally broke through and won their championship in '87.  

 As a Corbin fan, I am well aware that no one has a richer tradition in this region than Clay.  I think Clay and Corbin has combined to win almost half of the regional titles, with Clay winning a third of them . (Clay- 29 ; Corbin - 15).  Clay completely dominated the region from the mid-seventies and throughout the eighties . I think they won all but four region titles  over a span of eighteen years.  No one is likely to impose their will on the rest of the region over a period of two decades ever again. They didn't lose a home game for something like nine years during one stretch.

So, OSH, get to the damn point.  Here it is.   Where does Clay County basketball go from here? What has to happen to return the Tigers to their position as the top basketball program, not only in the 13th region, but in all of eastern Kentucky?

Let me say this. I thought the Clay kids played very hard in both of their tournament games this year ;  not very well a lot of the time , but very hard. Gave good effort.  But just giving good effort without getting championship results is not something that I have ever equated with Tiger basketball. I went to a Corbin-Clay game in Manchester several years ago when this group of seniors were either eighth-graders or freshmen. I really liked what I saw from a very young group of Tigers. I remember telling a Clay fan that night that I thought that group of kids would do some special things over the next three or four years.  

Let's look at Clay's 13th region results the last five years:

2017 :   One and done   (0-1)

2018 :    Failed to make region

2019  :   Failed to Make region

2020   :  Semifinal round  (1-1)

2021   :  Semifinal round   (1-1)


In five years , Clay County has played a grand total of five region games, winning just two. If you had told me five years ago that Clay would win just two region games over the next five years,  I would have done like Hoot Gibson and called you a liar.  Btw, prior to 2018, the Tigers had failed to make the 13th region tournament just one time in the previous 67 years !!! That's a big old have mercy! 

Congrats to the six seniors for all the hard work they put in over the years.

What does Clay County do from this point to get back to being the dominant team in the 49th district as well as the 13th region???

[jamesclay]

Should have kept Robert Marcum.

[nedreader]

I don’t think it’s difficult to see that Marcum is a better coach than Gray. Gray just has no charisma and connection with the fans IMO. The players that played for him would have played for anyone and developed due to simply getting game experience as much as anything. In crunch time Clay just couldn’t get it done most times with Gray on the bench. There’s only so much you can blame on the kids. Ultimately, after years of poor results the coach HAS to take the blame. Those involved in the hiring process simply don’t understand the complexity involved in understanding the makeup of a good coach. As it stands now, the lack of postseason success over the last 4 years combined with the players gone after this year make for a very difficult hole to dig out of...at least with the same leadership in place. The results speak for themselves, Gray just can’t get it done.

[DukeBoy]

Maybe the talent pool has dried up. Maybe the Elementary and Middle school coaches are the problem as well. Maybe everyone else has evolved and got better.

[Oldtiger]

I can't believe the fine citizens of Tiger Nation have allowed a Panther to waltz in and single handedly KO Tiger sports. I hope those who schemed, hooked, and crooked for this to happen are proud they alone own it. Now they think building a baseball/softball field, and putting turf on the football field will appease the situation. It Won't... Pssssst it's the people not the places that make for success.


Peace out folks.

[nedreader]

Old Tiger, how correct you are. We’re talking about Clay County and EVERYONE knows what sport will always reign supreme with the people of Clay Co(well, the sport that did for the last 40 years until now). Clay may never see a collection of talent on a basketball team again like they’ve had the last 4 years. UNACCEPTABLE

[Allcity33]

Seems the powers in the 13th have shifted to Knox and the Laurel County schools. Never really understood getting rid of Marcum who went to 5 straight region title games but I guess that’s what politics do.

[SouthEast18]

Not a 13th region guy so I might need some context but they fired Marcum after he went
Regional title
Regional finals
Regional finals?
Dang

[Waynes_]

Not a 13th region guy so I might need some context but they fired Marcum after he went
Regional title
Regional finals
Regional finals?
Dang

I done a little research on the matter and what it results in is that the politics has ruined clay county basketball:

Glenn Gray (6 years)
2 district titles
O regional titles
2 regional game wins

Robert Marcum (6 years)
6 district titles
2 regional titles
13 regional game wins
5 regional final appearances in a row. 

It makes me sick they pushed Marcum out for this guy.  What a joke.  If I was Marcum I would orchestrate a plan to get those board seats and start hiring qualified people for positions instead of political hires. It is obvious the powers that are here in clay have no idea how important it is to have a quality coach leading your teams.  And what makes it worse these past three years were supposed to be historic for us with the talent we had. Blows my mind!

[Conductor]

I think the issue is more related to the Laurel Co schools being moved to
The 13th. As fast as London is growing, it was only a matter of time before they started dominating ... plus the merger of all the Harlan schools. With no coal in Clay now, the talent pool declines every year

[Old School Hound]

I think the issue is more related to the Laurel Co schools being moved to
The 13th. As fast as London is growing, it was only a matter of time before they started dominating ... plus the merger of all the Harlan schools. With no coal in Clay now, the talent pool declines every year

Good points.

[cchsfan4life]

I've said it for the past 5 years..........Gray can't coach high school basketball. I think he has proven that I could be a genius......You can't take a grade school coach and give him the reigns to the high school program. Results don't lie folks........He is with out a doubt the worst hire in Clay County boys program history. I look for Gray to step down in the coming months but with politics involved you never know........he could be here for the next 10 years.....I hope not but in Clay County with you are in with the "circle" anything is possible!

[Old School Hound]

I've said it for the past 5  years..........Gray can't coach high school basketball.  I think he has proven that I could be a genius......You can't take a grade school coach and give him the reigns to the high school program.  Results don't lie folks........He is with out a doubt the worst hire in Clay County boys program history.  I look for Gray to step down in the coming months but with politics involved you never know........he could be here for the next 10 years.....I hope not but in Clay County with you are in with the "circle" anything is possible!

You mean a secret society like the Knights of the Golden Circle,  the Hermetic Brotherhood of Light,  the Manchester Freemasons, or the Illuminati?  That's some deep sh!t . No wonder Clay has struggled.

[Oldtiger]

I've said it for the past 5  years..........Gray can't coach high school basketball.  I think he has proven that I could be a genius......You can't take a grade school coach and give him the reigns to the high school program.  Results don't lie folks........He is with out a doubt the worst hire in Clay County boys program history.  I look for Gray to step down in the coming months but with politics involved you never know........he could be here for the next 10 years.....I hope not but in Clay County with you are in with the "circle" anything is possible!

You mean a secret society like the Knights of the Golden Circle,  the Hermetic Brotherhood of Light,  the Manchester Freemasons, or the Illuminati?  That's some deep sh!t . No wonder Clay has struggled.

Secret society won't touch this train wreck of a county, one of them, the self proclaimed Czar told me they're the new 3C's - Clay County Consortium, and winning at children's games isn't part of the current initiative, they see it is a financial drain.

[Old School Hound]

I've said it for the past 5  years..........Gray can't coach high school basketball.  I think he has proven that I could be a genius......You can't take a grade school coach and give him the reigns to the high school program.  Results don't lie folks........He is with out a doubt the worst hire in Clay County boys program history.  I look for Gray to step down in the coming months but with politics involved you never know........he could be here for the next 10 years.....I hope not but in Clay County with you are in with the "circle" anything is possible!

You mean a secret society like the Knights of the Golden Circle,  the Hermetic Brotherhood of Light,  the Manchester Freemasons, or the Illuminati?  That's some deep sh!t . No wonder Clay has struggled.

Secret society won't touch this train wreck of a county, one of them, the self proclaimed Czar told me they're the new 3C's - Clay County Consortium, and winning at children's games isn't part of the current initiative, they see it is a financial drain.

Maybe someone needs to tell that SOB Stivers to appropriate some money for the county. He can start by donating  some of the $342/ day he receives in salary and per diem.

[PioneerBlue]

Not defending Gray but I don’t think it matters who the coach was this year. They got as far as they were going to get.

[zaga_fan]

I'll say this...
This doesn't come from a place of disrespect or anything. I'm just recognizing the passion.

But Clay County is a tough job because of the expectations the fanbase puts on the program. I can't think of another program (at least in EKY, where I keep up with things) where the head coach is on the chopping block and called out so often.

[Hoot Gibson]

Let me say first off that I m a fan of 13th region basketball and have been since the early seventies. And because I am a fan of 13th region basketball and its history, I am a fan of the Clay County Tigers.  I can remember listening to every game of the 13th region tournaments throughout the seventies on WCTT- AM in Corbin.  Clay would win most of those regional tournaments and Don Estep would interview Coach Keith after each tournament win. I always rooted the Tigers on in the Sweet Sixteen and was thrilled when they finally broke through and won their championship in '87.  

 As a Corbin fan, I am well aware that no one has a richer tradition in this region than Clay.  I think Clay and Corbin has combined to win almost half of the regional titles,  with Clay winning a third of them . (Clay- 29 ; Corbin - 15).  Clay completely dominated the region from the mid-seventies and throughout the eighties . I think they won all but four region titles  over a span of eighteen years.  No one is likely to impose their will on the rest of the region over a period of two decades ever again. They didn't lose a home game for something like nine years during one stretch.

So, OSH, get to the damn point.  Here it is.   Where does Clay County basketball go from here? What has to happen to return the Tigers to their position as the top basketball program, not only in the 13th region, but in all of eastern Kentucky?

Let me say this. I thought the Clay kids played very hard in both of their tournament games this year ;  not very well a lot of the time , but very hard. Gave good effort.  But just giving good effort without getting championship results is not something that I have ever equated with Tiger basketball. I went to a Corbin-Clay game in Manchester several years ago when this group of seniors were either eighth-graders or freshmen. I really liked what I saw from a very young group of Tigers. I remember telling a Clay fan that night that I thought that group of kids would do some special things over the next three or four years.  

Let's look at Clay's 13th region results the last five years:

2017 :   One and done   (0-1)

2018 :    Failed to make region

2019  :   Failed to Make region

2020   :  Semifinal round  (1-1)

2021   :  Semifinal round   (1-1)


In five years , Clay County has played a grand total of five region games, winning just two. If you had told me five years ago that Clay would win just two region games over the next five years,  I would have done like Hoot Gibson and called you a liar.  Btw, prior to 2018, the Tigers had failed to make the 13th region tournament just one time in the previous 67 years !!! That's a big old have mercy! 

Congrats to the six seniors for all the hard work they put in over the years.

What does Clay County do from this point to get back to being the dominant team in the 49th district as well as the 13th region???

Why don't you take up whatever issues you have with me in the Politics forum and stop taking cheap shots everywhere else? Losing political debates and retaliating in sports and other forums makes you look very small.

[Old School Hound]

Let me say first off that I m a fan of 13th region basketball and have been since the early seventies. And because I am a fan of 13th region basketball and its history, I am a fan of the Clay County Tigers.  I can remember listening to every game of the 13th region tournaments throughout the seventies on WCTT- AM in Corbin.  Clay would win most of those regional tournaments and Don Estep would interview Coach Keith after each tournament win. I always rooted the Tigers on in the Sweet Sixteen and was thrilled when they finally broke through and won their championship in '87.  

 As a Corbin fan, I am well aware that no one has a richer tradition in this region than Clay.  I think Clay and Corbin has combined to win almost half of the regional titles,  with Clay winning a third of them . (Clay- 29 ; Corbin - 15).  Clay completely dominated the region from the mid-seventies and throughout the eighties . I think they won all but four region titles  over a span of eighteen years.  No one is likely to impose their will on the rest of the region over a period of two decades ever again. They didn't lose a home game for something like nine years during one stretch.

So, OSH, get to the damn point.  Here it is.   Where does Clay County basketball go from here? What has to happen to return the Tigers to their position as the top basketball program, not only in the 13th region, but in all of eastern Kentucky?

Let me say this. I thought the Clay kids played very hard in both of their tournament games this year ;  not very well a lot of the time , but very hard. Gave good effort.  But just giving good effort without getting championship results is not something that I have ever equated with Tiger basketball. I went to a Corbin-Clay game in Manchester several years ago when this group of seniors were either eighth-graders or freshmen. I really liked what I saw from a very young group of Tigers. I remember telling a Clay fan that night that I thought that group of kids would do some special things over the next three or four years.  

Let's look at Clay's 13th region results the last five years:

2017 :   One and done   (0-1)

2018 :    Failed to make region

2019  :   Failed to Make region

2020   :  Semifinal round  (1-1)

2021   :  Semifinal round   (1-1)


In five years , Clay County has played a grand total of five region games, winning just two. If you had told me five years ago that Clay would win just two region games over the next five years,  I would have done like Hoot Gibson and called you a liar.  Btw, prior to 2018, the Tigers had failed to make the 13th region tournament just one time in the previous 67 years !!! That's a big old have mercy! 

Congrats to the six seniors for all the hard work they put in over the years.

What does Clay County do from this point to get back to being the dominant team in the 49th district as well as the 13th region???

Why don't you take up whatever issues you have with me in the Politics forum and stop taking cheap shots everywhere else? Losing political debates and retaliating in sports and other forums makes you look very small.

I have  no issues to take up with you.  It's all in fun, Gibson. Any post I make about being stranded on an island with you or anything else, including the above post is meant in jest and not to be taken literally, and certainly not seriously.  You should know by now that I do not get angry by anything anyone says on here and I certainly don't call anyone a liar. That's your style , not mine, and I am okay with that. It doesn't offend me at all.  Also, I am on this message board for one reason- to have fun with other members and talk sports and music.  I do not come to a sports message board to have  political debates. Bring up topics and express a viewpoint for others to think about and discuss , yes,  but not to engage in scholarly debates.  If you ever want to schedule a formal debate somewhere, I will be more than glad to engage you in one at a library, a college, or some other appropriate venue. Until then, just lighten up and have fun for a change. Politics gets you too uptight. 

[Hoot Gibson]

Let me say first off that I m a fan of 13th region basketball and have been since the early seventies. And because I am a fan of 13th region basketball and its history, I am a fan of the Clay County Tigers.  I can remember listening to every game of the 13th region tournaments throughout the seventies on WCTT- AM in Corbin.  Clay would win most of those regional tournaments and Don Estep would interview Coach Keith after each tournament win. I always rooted the Tigers on in the Sweet Sixteen and was thrilled when they finally broke through and won their championship in '87.  

 As a Corbin fan, I am well aware that no one has a richer tradition in this region than Clay.  I think Clay and Corbin has combined to win almost half of the regional titles,  with Clay winning a third of them . (Clay- 29 ; Corbin - 15).  Clay completely dominated the region from the mid-seventies and throughout the eighties . I think they won all but four region titles  over a span of eighteen years.  No one is likely to impose their will on the rest of the region over a period of two decades ever again. They didn't lose a home game for something like nine years during one stretch.

So, OSH, get to the damn point.  Here it is.   Where does Clay County basketball go from here? What has to happen to return the Tigers to their position as the top basketball program, not only in the 13th region, but in all of eastern Kentucky?

Let me say this. I thought the Clay kids played very hard in both of their tournament games this year ;  not very well a lot of the time , but very hard. Gave good effort.  But just giving good effort without getting championship results is not something that I have ever equated with Tiger basketball. I went to a Corbin-Clay game in Manchester several years ago when this group of seniors were either eighth-graders or freshmen. I really liked what I saw from a very young group of Tigers. I remember telling a Clay fan that night that I thought that group of kids would do some special things over the next three or four years.  

Let's look at Clay's 13th region results the last five years:

2017 :   One and done   (0-1)

2018 :    Failed to make region

2019  :   Failed to Make region

2020   :  Semifinal round  (1-1)

2021   :  Semifinal round   (1-1)


In five years , Clay County has played a grand total of five region games, winning just two. If you had told me five years ago that Clay would win just two region games over the next five years,  I would have done like Hoot Gibson and called you a liar.  Btw, prior to 2018, the Tigers had failed to make the 13th region tournament just one time in the previous 67 years !!! That's a big old have mercy! 

Congrats to the six seniors for all the hard work they put in over the years.

What does Clay County do from this point to get back to being the dominant team in the 49th district as well as the 13th region???

Why don't you take up whatever issues you have with me in the Politics forum and stop taking cheap shots everywhere else? Losing political debates and retaliating in sports and other forums makes you look very small.

I have  no issues to take up with you.  It's all in fun, Gibson. Any post I make about being stranded on an island with you or anything else, including the above post is meant in jest and not to be taken literally, and certainly not seriously.  You should know by now that I do not get angry by anything anyone says on here and I certainly don't call anyone a liar. That's your style , not mine, and I am okay with that. It doesn't offend me at all.  Also, I am on this message board for one reason- to have fun with other members and talk sports and music.  I do not come to a sports message board to have  political debates. Bring up topics and express a viewpoint for others to think about and discuss , yes,  but not to engage in scholarly debates.  If you ever want to schedule a formal debate somewhere, I will be more than glad to engage you in one at a library, a college, or some other appropriate venue. Until then, just lighten up and have fun for a change. Politics gets you too uptight. 

What I get is that you take cheap shots at me in posts where I am unlikely to see them. This thread is not the right place for them. You can pass your insults off as "all in good fun" if you want, but we both know better. Clay County basketball fans are not interested in having insults from the Politics forum spilling into their threads.

[cchsfan4life]

Not defending Gray but I don’t think it matters who the coach was this year. They got as far as they were going to get.

You must not be from Clay and understand the "WHOLE" dynamics of what has went on the past few years.  If you are from Clay then you are completely clueless.  This team won the state tournament in middle school and had real potential to do something.  Now would they have won a state tournament in high school like some of their parents...probably not......but there is no excuse for having a team like this for 4 years and having not made the regional tournament 2 years and only winning 2 combined games in the region the other 2........That is pathetic.  With the school board we have now and the people in charge they don't care about the program because it is all political.....They will tell you they do and will talk about people behind their back but in reality they don't because they keep making the same dumb decisions everytime.........FOR EXAMPLE:  a little birdie flew by and told me that the higher ups are begging Gray to stay on  as coach for next season because of who is wanting the job.  My thinking is why can't you post the job.......interview applicants and select the best one out of the bunch????  I will tell you why they can't because that would mean someone gets the job who isn't in the CIRCLE!!!!!  Until we get new adminstration at the Board and new members on the Board the results we have been getting......is what we will see!

[nedreader]

Gray is torn...his ego is crushed but the board czar wants him to keep taking hits for the team. It's almost comical. Head varsity coaches at high schools should be hired by the AD and/or principal at the schools, not the Superintendent. Yes, the Superintendent should approve the hire but he/she should trust the judgement of the people under them...especially in a county with only one high school. The problem is there are so many puppets in principal positions county-wide that they're afraid to make a decision. The people of the county should demonstrate on the lawn of the BOE and take it to the grounds of the high school. Sometimes you have to cut to the core and that's what will eventually happen in this situation. If Gray resigns the new hire will just be another puppet or if the hire is done correctly and there's success, the czar and his cronies will try to take credit for the success. Just flip a coin like a tip off in 2020-21.

[Waynes_]

I think if you go by the rules the principal hires and the superintendent fires. We are in clay, so no rules are being followed and I would venture to say that Mr. Gregory would be a puppet anyway. I plan on just watching north because clay is done and has been done ever since gray took over.

[Oldtiger]

In Clay the only rule is the Big Boy in the super seat hires, fires, promotes, cuts, and rules complete, give all this power to one cat you get what you got.

[Old School Hound]

Not defending Gray but I don’t think it matters who the coach was this year. They got as far as they were going to get.

You must not be from Clay and understand the "WHOLE" dynamics of what has went on the past few years.  If you are from Clay then you are completely clueless.  This team won the state tournament in middle school and had real potential to do something.  Now would they have won a state tournament in high school like some of their parents...probably not......but there is no excuse for having a team like this for 4 years and having not made the regional tournament 2 years and only winning 2 combined games in the region the other 2........That is pathetic.  With the school board we have now and the people in charge they don't care about the program because it is all political.....They will tell you they do and will talk about people behind their back but in reality they don't because they keep making the same dumb decisions everytime.........FOR EXAMPLE:  a little birdie flew by and told me that the higher ups are begging Gray to stay on  as coach for next season because of who is wanting the job.  My thinking is why can't you post the job.......interview applicants and select the best one out of the bunch????  I will tell you why they can't because that would mean someone gets the job who isn't in the CIRCLE!!!!!  Until we get new adminstration at the Board and new members on the Board the results we have been getting......is what we will see!

Has Richie Farmer ever expressed an interest in coaching?   Does anything from his past  preclude him from coaching?  You would think basketball coach would be the perfect niche for Rich.

[nedreader]

The Big Boy doesn’t care about basketball and doesn’t know anything about it. He just does what someone else tells him. Richie doesn’t have the coaching “experience” Gray has...LOL. Plus, his kids are out of school now. Anyone that can’t be manipulated is NOT a candidate for the Clay job. Clay’s claim to fame this year was a win over Boyle Co at home and Boyle lost by 36 to Ashland yesterday so that gives you an idea how far Clay has fallen. They honestly should play a JV schedule next year and try to build interest in the program again. Can you say ROCK BOTTOM?

[HCS]

Even with losing their top six players to graduation, Clay will still be better than several teams in the 13th Region next year and will win some games. There's no reason to play a JV schedule next year, except playing one along with a varsity schedule.

[nedreader]

HCS, how was the Clay JV this year?

[cchsfan4life]

HCS, how was the Clay JV this year

I don't see Clay being ranked in the top 10 of the region next year.  Yea they will win a few games but I would bet the farm they have a losing record overall and a losing record in the 13th region.  If Jackson County can pull together a decent team then this could be another year Clay watches the region from home.

[Old School Hound]

I think the 13th region is better when Clay , with its rich basketball history and tradition , is strong. This Corbin fan is rooting for the Tigers to  remain a force and a perennial contender in the 13th... and I believe they will.