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04-08-2020, 09:25 PM
Cardfan1 Wrote:All correct. Thanks for the article, Van. I'm certain this article will be able to be written again with a whole new set of material in about a month.
LOL, Van Hagar's got a new BFF.
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04-08-2020, 11:03 PM
TheRealThing Wrote:LOL, Van Hagar's got a new BFF.
Well you can never have enough.😁Serious question to you Real Thing, and please understand that I am not meaning this in any way as smart alecky towards you, I believe you are totally sincere in your religious beliefs, and I respect that completely. But as such, how do you square with your own beliefs supporting a man with the moral character Trump displays? (Examples that are on video, his âjust grab âem by the ââ-â way for dealing with women (said while married no less), his making fun of the disabled reporter who asked a question he didnât like, he constant use of profanity while making public speeches, etc. Iâm speaking again here on the man himself, not necessarily his policies, a good number of which you might be surprised to know I can agree with.
nicker:
04-09-2020, 12:12 AM
Van Hagar Wrote:Well you can never have enough.😁Serious question to you Real Thing, and please understand that I am not meaning this in any way as smart alecky towards you, I believe you are totally sincere in your religious beliefs, and I respect that completely. But as such, how do you square with your own beliefs supporting a man with the moral character Trump displays? (Examples that are on video, his âjust grab âem by the ââ-â way for dealing with women (said while married no less), his making fun of the disabled reporter who asked a question he didnât like, he constant use of profanity while making public speeches, etc. Iâm speaking again here on the man himself, not necessarily his policies, a good number of which you might be surprised to know I can agree with.
You said you love Bill Clinton lol.
Love the sinner hate the sin.
04-09-2020, 01:08 AM
jetpilot Wrote:You said you love Bill Clinton lol.
Love the sinner hate the sin.
I knew youâd bring that up.😁😁But my point is I didnât base that on any religious beliefs, I just canât wrap my head around sincere religious folk backing the Trumpster.
04-09-2020, 01:31 AM
Van Hagar Wrote:I knew youâd bring that up.😁😁But my point is I didnât base that on any religious beliefs, I just canât wrap my head around sincere religious folk backing the Trumpster.
Maybe because he is pro-life and Democrats are pro abortion through about kindergarden?
04-09-2020, 01:34 AM
jetpilot Wrote:Maybe because he is pro-life and Democrats are pro abortion through about kindergarden?
I mean, is that the only issue that anyone bases anything on? If the second coming of Hitler was elected president, but he also happened to be pro life would he be acceptable?
04-09-2020, 01:50 AM
Van Hagar Wrote:Donât forget until about 10 years ago Trump was strictly pro-choice.
You mean back when he was a Democrat? Yes, some people get smarter as they get older. I give Trump credit for no longer wanting to snuff out life in the womb. Now do your guy Biden. He has flip-flopped a zillion times, almost always for the worse.
04-09-2020, 02:06 AM
jetpilot Wrote:You mean back when he was a Democrat? Yes, some people get smarter as they get older. I give Trump credit for no longer wanting to snuff out life in the womb. Now do your guy Biden. He has flip-flopped a zillion times, almost always for the worse.
Bidenâs not my guy. Not by a long shot. Heâs borderline senile right now. But letâs be honest, Trumpâs only real concern on this issue is which way it best benefits him politically. If pro-choice would give him a better chance of being elected, then heâd be that.
04-09-2020, 02:24 AM
^^So would 99% of the politicians.
To be honest, there are times when Trump's mouth makes me cringe. Also, if I waited until I was impressed by someone's religion, I doubt that I would ever vote.
The attraction for me is the fact that I don't believe Trump IS a politician; in the purest sense of the word. The Dems hate him and the Repubs disowned him. Yet he still won.
Bottom line is that it's been a long time since the voters of America have had a viable option for President. So we vote for the least offensive.
To be honest, there are times when Trump's mouth makes me cringe. Also, if I waited until I was impressed by someone's religion, I doubt that I would ever vote.
The attraction for me is the fact that I don't believe Trump IS a politician; in the purest sense of the word. The Dems hate him and the Repubs disowned him. Yet he still won.
Bottom line is that it's been a long time since the voters of America have had a viable option for President. So we vote for the least offensive.
04-09-2020, 02:58 AM
Van Hagar Wrote:Well you can never have enough.��Serious question to you Real Thing, and please understand that I am not meaning this in any way as smart alecky towards you, I believe you are totally sincere in your religious beliefs, and I respect that completely. But as such, how do you square with your own beliefs supporting a man with the moral character Trump displays? (Examples that are on video, his âjust grab âem by the ââ-â way for dealing with women (said while married no less), his making fun of the disabled reporter who asked a question he didnât like, he constant use of profanity while making public speeches, etc. Iâm speaking again here on the man himself, not necessarily his policies, a good number of which you might be surprised to know I can agree with.
100 percent honesty here. There are a number of instances in the Old Testament where God used unsaved men to accomplish His will in this world. Not the least of which was King Nebuchadnezzar. Even the Roman Governor Pilate, who oversaw Israel in the time of Jesus. But owing to man's fall from grace in the garden of Eden, all men are born sinners separated from God. The point is all of us, every last one, are equally as unfit as is DJT.
Yet he does publically recognize the sovereignty of God, he does decry open abortion, and he does declare that we are one people, under God. Presidents are not pastors, and vice versa. Frankly going by their actions, it would be a hard sell in my book to believe any President we've had other than Jimmy Carter was actually a saved-by-grace Christian. But Presidents have to be leaders, and many times that means they are who they are. Roosevelt had a mistress, and most presidents have similar skeletons stashed in the closet.
I know that I am a saved man. I also know that I have no right to judge Trump or any other man, because saved folk's relationship with Christ is totally divorced from being good. Saved by grace means in no way could we ever hope to earn or deserve salvation. It is God's gift and is based solely upon men admitting that they could never merit being saved, and they understand that the cross is where their sin debt was paid. It is a choice, that must be made by every man who must confess Christ in the presence of men, and putting off that choice is the same thing as saying no. Trump is no worse than any other president who ever sat the chair. And character-wise, no other president is one whit better than MR Trump. The One Who passes down judgment says there are only two types of people. Sinners who deny Him, and sinners (the saved) who obey Him. Nobody has the right to get up on any moral high horse.
I am thankful for MR Trump and I respect him in spite of his warts.
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04-09-2020, 03:01 AM
Van Hagar Wrote:Oh, and am I Spike or Chester? Iâm hoping for Chester I think.
Cardfan 'like finger' is getting hot liking so many of your posts. You're Spike.
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04-09-2020, 03:23 AM
Van Hagar Wrote:Bidenâs not my guy. Not by a long shot. Heâs borderline senile right now. But letâs be honest, Trumpâs only real concern on this issue is which way it best benefits him politically. If pro-choice would give him a better chance of being elected, then heâd be that.
So you won't be voting for Biden in November?
irateSho
04-09-2020, 03:25 AM
Granny Bear Wrote:^^So would 99% of the politicians.
To be honest, there are times when Trump's mouth makes me cringe. Also, if I waited until I was impressed by someone's religion, I doubt that I would ever vote.
The attraction for me is the fact that I don't believe Trump IS a politician; in the purest sense of the word. The Dems hate him and the Repubs disowned him. Yet he still won.
Bottom line is that it's been a long time since the voters of America have had a viable option for President. So we vote for the least offensive.
Ain't that the truth.
04-09-2020, 03:43 AM
TheRealThing Wrote:100 percent honesty here. There are a number of instances in the Old Testament where God used unsaved men to accomplish His will in this world. Not the least of which was King Nebuchadnezzar. Even the Roman Governor Pilate, who oversaw Israel in the time of Jesus. But owing to man's fall from grace in the garden of Eden, all men are born sinners separated from God. The point is all of us, every last one, are equally as unfit as is DJT.
Yet he does publically recognize the sovereignty of God, he does decry open abortion, and he does declare that we are one people, under God. Presidents are not pastors, and vice versa. Frankly going by their actions, it would be a hard sell in my book to believe any President we've had other than Jimmy Carter was actually a saved-by-grace Christian. But Presidents have to be leaders, and many times that means they are who they are. Roosevelt had a mistress, and most presidents have similar skeletons stashed in the closet.
I know that I am a saved man. I also know that I have no right to judge Trump or any other man, because saved folk's relationship with Christ is totally divorced from being good. Saved by grace means in no way could we ever hope to earn or deserve salvation. It is God's gift and is based solely upon men admitting that they could never merit being saved, and they understand that the cross is where their sin debt was paid. It is a choice, that must be made by every man who must confess Christ in the presence of men, and putting off that choice is the same thing as saying no. Trump is no worse than any other president who ever sat the chair. And character-wise, no other president is one whit better than MR Trump. The One Who passes down judgment says there are only two types of people. Sinners who deny Him, and sinners (the saved) who obey Him. Nobody has the right to get up on any moral high horse.
I am thankful for MR Trump and I respect him in spite of his warts.
Well, thatâs a well-worded response, and actually gives me a little pause when Iâm wondering about some who support Trump. And I certainly agree with you that Pres. Carter is the only truly Christian person that has held that position, definitely in my lifetime. Iâve never thought the office of the Presidency was all that compatible with someone was a true Christian.
04-09-2020, 09:09 AM
Van Hagar Wrote:Well, that’s a well-worded response, and actually gives me a little pause when I’m wondering about some who support Trump. And I certainly agree with you that Pres. Carter is the only truly Christian person that has held that position, definitely in my lifetime. I’ve never thought the office of the Presidency was all that compatible with someone was a true Christian.
Whoa here just a minute, I will strongly disagree with some of this. True Christians don't support and uphold abortion. True Christians don't uphold same sex marriage. True Christians don't uphold confused sex.
Matthew 7:21 Not everyone that saith unto me Lord, Lord shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he who doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. [COLOR="Black"]22 Many will say to me in that day Lord, Lord have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then I will profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.[/COLOR]
Now you can teach all the Sunday school classes you want and you can build all of the homes you want, but the sins he is committing is no better or no worse than ANYTHING you may perceive Donald Trump as doing. IMO, you cannot be a "true" Christian and uphold the things that Jimmy Carter upholds. I also think it almost impossible to uphold anything concerning what this new democratic party upholds and remain a "true" Christian.
Some have this notion that because Mr. Trump may at sometimes fail personally that that is reason to not support him. It's more what he does that protects our rights and what he does that upholds or not upholds concerning my values that I adhere to, as the difference maker. His personal life has absolutely no bearing in me supporting someone who advocates laws that are right, moral and in accordance with his will. Mr. Trumps life is his, I did not vote for him to be my pastor, I voted for him to support and protect my pastor.
04-09-2020, 12:45 PM
Bob Seger Wrote:Whoa here just a minute, I will strongly disagree with some of this. True Christians don't support and uphold abortion. True Christians don't uphold same sex marriage. True Christians don't uphold confused sex.
Matthew 7:21 Not everyone that saith unto me Lord, Lord shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he who doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. [COLOR="Black"]22 Many will say to me in that day Lord, Lord have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then I will profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.[/COLOR]
Now you can teach all the Sunday school classes you want and you can build all of the homes you want, but the sins he is committing is no better or no worse than ANYTHING you may perceive Donald Trump as doing. IMO, you cannot be a "true" Christian and uphold the things that Jimmy Carter upholds. I also think it almost impossible to uphold anything concerning what this new democratic party upholds and remain a "true" Christian.
Some have this notion that because Mr. Trump may at sometimes fail personally that that is reason to not support him. It's more what he does that protects our rights and what he does that upholds or not upholds concerning my values that I adhere to, as the difference maker. His personal life has absolutely no bearing in me supporting someone who advocates laws that are right, moral and in accordance with his will. Mr. Trumps life is his, I did not vote for him to be my pastor, I voted for him to support and protect my pastor.
OK,listen I respect you and TRT's point of view, I would actually like to hear his take on Carter as well.
04-09-2020, 03:58 PM
Bob Seger Wrote:Whoa here just a minute, I will strongly disagree with some of this. True Christians don't support and uphold abortion. True Christians don't uphold same sex marriage. True Christians don't uphold confused sex.
Matthew 7:21 Not everyone that saith unto me Lord, Lord shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he who doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. [COLOR="Black"]22 Many will say to me in that day Lord, Lord have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then I will profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.[/COLOR]
Now you can teach all the Sunday school classes you want and you can build all of the homes you want, but the sins he is committing is no better or no worse than ANYTHING you may perceive Donald Trump as doing. IMO, you cannot be a "true" Christian and uphold the things that Jimmy Carter upholds. I also think it almost impossible to uphold anything concerning what this new democratic party upholds and remain a "true" Christian.
Some have this notion that because Mr. Trump may at sometimes fail personally that that is reason to not support him. It's more what he does that protects our rights and what he does that upholds or not upholds concerning my values that I adhere to, as the difference maker. His personal life has absolutely no bearing in me supporting someone who advocates laws that are right, moral and in accordance with his will. Mr. Trumps life is his, I did not vote for him to be my pastor, I voted for him to support and protect my pastor.
Van Hagar Wrote:OK,listen I respect you and TRT's point of view, I would actually like to hear his take on Carter as well.
Yeah my thought in saying that about Carter was that in an interview during his campaign he had openly claimed to be a born again Christian. A mocking press ballyhooed that to the heavens, and that caused the Church to galvanize in support of Carter. But Carter was extremely gullible about a lot of things too. I remember how the press reported Carter saying how 'hurt' his feelings were when Brezhnev lied to him and it was discovered that Russia had violated the SALT II agreement. Russia lied? DUH That was when I knew Carter was naïve, and that was when he lost the support of the people. But honestly his support of abortion had slipped my mind. Carter was and is naïve, and especially after his presidency he's shown a strong liberal streak. I wouldn't want to be in his shoes I'll tell you that, but if on the slimmest of possibilities Carter is saved, he is an absolute babe in Christ.
Bob is right, and my generalization was wrong. Actually it did occur to me after I'd posted, that Reagan's example would have better demonstrated the point. I apologize for not doing a better job of commenting on such an important matter. And Bob, feel free to call me out the next time I uh-oh on something like that.
In the doctrinal sense-- It is far less a generalization to state categorically as Bob did, that people who support abortion and the homosexual lifestyle are surely not saved. I will agree with him completely on that.
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04-09-2020, 04:07 PM
Cardfan1 Wrote:Abortion issues have given us terrible politicians top to bottom and on both sides.
There you go again. Support for abortion is shared by both sides, but ALL the Dems support it and very few Republicans support it. Saying both sides do it is a technicality, a stretch to make Dems look much better than they are.
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04-09-2020, 04:38 PM
TheRealThing Wrote:Yeah my thought in saying that about Carter was that in an interview during his campaign he had openly claimed to be a born again Christian. A mocking press ballyhooed that to the heavens, and that caused the Church to galvanize in support of Carter. But Carter was extremely gullible about a lot of things too. I remember how the press reported Carter saying how 'hurt' his feelings were when Brezhnev lied to him and it was discovered that Russia had violated the SALT II agreement. Russia lied? DUH That was when I knew Carter was naïve, and that was when he lost the support of the people. But honestly his support of abortion had slipped my mind. Carter was and is naïve, and especially after his presidency he's shown a strong liberal streak. I wouldn't want to be in his shoes I'll tell you that, but if on the slimmest of possibilities Carter is saved, he is an absolute babe in Christ.TRT, I would never under any circumstance EVER call you out on anything. I have immense respect for you and your convictions. Lets just be honest, we are all still babes in Christ no matter how highly we may exalt our own deities . I think the scripture that I quoted pretty much confirms that "straight is the gate, and narrow the way."
Bob is right, and my generalization was wrong. Actually it did occur to me after I'd posted, that Reagan's example would have better demonstrated the point. I apologize for not doing a better job of commenting on such an important matter. And Bob, feel free to call me out the next time I uh-oh on something like that.
In the doctrinal sense-- It is far less a generalization to state categorically as Bob did, that people who support abortion and the homosexual lifestyle are surely not saved. I will agree with him completely on that.
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