[Bob Seger]

Look's like Redbird is the only one who cant see it.

James Carville embraces Sanders' "political hack" label: "At least I'm not a communist"


https://www.foxnews.com/media/james-carv...-communist

[Cardfan1]

You don't think I can tell historical trues, facts and current events from DNC talking points?

US bailouts were largely successful, absorbed by the taxpayer/economy, and with the notable exception of Democrat run cities, life goes on. Not that that means I agreed with them. Eurozone bailouts however, are a different animal. EU local governments have already burdened taxpayers to the point where they have basically hit the wall. (I give you Brexit) And because following the bailouts European leaders went right on handing out the goodies and not changing their spending habits, those bailouts were largely unsuccessful. As the result the EU is in even bigger trouble than recent years. Greece, Italy, France and Portugal are among those in the EU with a public debt burden that eclipses their entire annual economic output. Greece's public debt ratio is 183% of their annual economy.

I never said you said the first word about it. I said that. Why? Because of the endless parade of Democrat politicians on TV blaming Republicans and downing white politicians and enabling minority civil unrest. Another old white guy they say. Then Bernie Sanders steps up as the 2020 frontrunner and they go into a panic. I just pointed out you can't pour gas on our political system and expect that only the parts you don't like will get burned up. That and the fact that there is a certain poetic justice about that in view of the game Dems have been playing.

I was curious after you threw that number out of Greece’s public debt ratio. That number is second to capitalist Japan who has a 274% public debt ratio.
The United States is sitting at 106%. Higher than some of those handout nations like Finland 59%, Canada 88%,France 99%...
Seems like there is more to this than handouts.

[Cardfan1]

Look's like Redbird is the only one who cant see it.

James Carville embraces Sanders' "political hack" label: "At least I'm not a communist"


https://www.foxnews.com/media/james-carv...-communist

Carville is part of the Democrat establishment his reaction is similar to the republican establishment when Trump ascended to the top around this time in 2016.

[Bob Seger]

Carville is part of the Democrat establishment his reaction is similar to the republican establishment when Trump ascended to the top around this time in 2016.

That's just about the stupidest thing I've heard. What a "spin" attempt!! NY Post just make that junk up too? However, your response is very "similar" to what any dyed in the wool commie (or pure dumbass) would say to defend anything associated with Bernie Sanders. Or it's what a fool would believe. Which one we got goin on here, Red?

[TheRealThing]

I was curious after you threw that number out of Greece’s public debt ratio. That number is second to capitalist Japan who has a 274% public debt ratio.
The United States is sitting at 106%. Higher than some of those handout nations like Finland 59%, Canada 88%,France 99%...
Seems like there is more to this than handouts.

thecapitalideas.com and other notables say it's more like 76.4%

[TheRealThing]

Look's like Redbird is the only one who cant see it.

James Carville embraces Sanders' "political hack" label: "At least I'm not a communist"


https://www.foxnews.com/media/james-carv...-communist

You only need to understand one thing about Bernie to know he's a communist. And that is his Medicare for all plan. Why would one want to force the entirety of this land's populace onto a government controlled, one size fits all medical plan? Why in addition to the already impossible burden of heath costs, would he want to force the taxpayer to further shoulder the healthcare costs of those who already pay for same? The answer is simple--- control.

But we know far more. Bernie wants a maximum earning cap. A state run education program, (Can't have these underlings learning things that may cause them to cause trouble) A state run economy, which I guarantee would include the agricultural industry. And he would shred the US military. And you could kiss your guns goodbye. In just hitting the high spots you can see how freedom would go bye-bye.

[TheRealThing]

Posted today---

Carville is part of the Democrat establishment his reaction is similar to the republican establishment when Trump ascended to the top around this time in 2016.

Posted back in 2014---

Laughably, we hear much ado about infighting and disputing among Republicans mainly between Tea Partiers and RINO's. And there is some of that. Frankly, that is about the only thing that gives me hope that the Republican Party can rediscover it's true identity. The foregoing discourse pales however, when compared to the extreme left of the Democrats. The uber liberal Elizabeth Warren types, foaming at the mouth to see "change." They have driven the lunacy seen during the past 6+ years but, make no mistake, they are very distraught with President Obama's reluctance to force the liberal agenda at a much faster rate. I predicted (as far back as 2010) the day will come when the 'zoo stew' of special interest groups which comprise the Democratic base will turn on each other. I believe it will be ugly and it looks like it has started to happen.

LOL, told ya.

[Cardfan1]

That's just about the stupidest thing I've heard. What a "spin" attempt!! NY Post just make that junk up too? However, your response is very "similar" to what any dyed in the wool commie (or pure dumbass) would say to defend anything associated with Bernie Sanders. Or it's what a fool would believe. Which one we got goin on here, Red?

What would you expect Carville to say as his party is being hijacked?
I wasn’t saying anything was made up.

My response is as an observer of politics. Not really defending or condemning any side.
You don’t know what a communist is that’s already been demonstrated in this thread.

[Cardfan1]

You only need to understand one thing about Bernie to know he's a communist. And that is his Medicare for all plan. Why would one want to force the entirety of this land's populace onto a government controlled, one size fits all medical plan? Why in addition to the already impossible burden of heath costs, would he want to force the taxpayer to further shoulder the healthcare costs of those who already pay for same? The answer is simple--- control.

But we know far more. Bernie wants a maximum earning cap. A state run education program, (Can't have these underlings learning things that may cause them to cause trouble) A state run economy, which I guarantee would include the agricultural industry. And he would shred the US military. And you could kiss your guns goodbye. In just hitting the high spots you can see how freedom would go bye-bye.

I imagine Sanders wants to use the power of the govt. to put the brakes on an industry that’s out of control. That same industry spends billions to lobby Congress and presidents to do nothing to help consumers who are doing nothing but trying to survive. Another instance where the middle class takes the shaft: the rich don’t feel the cost and the poor get it for free.


That
Last
Paragraph
Is
Hyperbole
At
Its
Finest.

Where did Congress go in your communist scenario? Have they turned into lemmings that just kowtow to the president...wait...

[Cardfan1]

thecapitalideas.com and other notables say it's more like 76.4%

I think I found the discrepancy, because I also saw both numbers too.
76% US owned and the other 29% is foreign owned equaling 105%.

[TheRealThing]

I think I found the discrepancy, because I also saw both numbers too.
76% US owned and the other 29% is foreign owned equaling 105%.

Yeah well the US taxpayer is not burdened with more money going out than he produces quite yet. I know that's your angle as you try to prove your contention that the US has been socialist all along. It hasn't. But as with all your argumentative revisions to reality, you imagine yourself clever enough to tell folks what they actually think. You can take your cues from the same idiot economists who claimed should Trump be elected the stock market would plunge 10 thousand points and further that we would never recover, if you want. And of course, you do want to deny economic reality in the same way you do everything else. Nobody's buying except true believer libs and the ones who get their opinions handed to them.


PETER MORICI---
Welcome to the Trump prosperity — the 3 percent GDP growth accomplished since the recent tax cuts and assault on abusive government regulation took hold are just a prelude of what could be accomplished if the endless Democratic attacks don’t bring down the administration and the organized left — the mainstream media, radical feminists and socialists — don’t highjack our personal liberties and destroy American capitalism.

But let's cut to the chase here. Should Bernie even survive until Nov 3rd, he has no chance of being elected. Such desperate hope.

[TheRealThing]

I imagine Sanders wants to use the power of the govt. to put the brakes on an industry that’s out of control. That same industry spends billions to lobby Congress and presidents to do nothing to help consumers who are doing nothing but trying to survive. Another instance where the middle class takes the shaft: the rich don’t feel the cost and the poor get it for free.


That
Last
Paragraph
Is
Hyperbole
At
Its
Finest.

Where did Congress go in your communist scenario? Have they turned into lemmings that just kowtow to the president...wait...

Now, I know how zealous you are with your Chris Hahn impersonation. But as I keep reminding you, just because you run down one of your liberal talking point rabbit holes, does not mean I will follow you in.

I said those things define Bernie Sanders and they do. If anything I have been far too gracious in my assessments of him and frankly, I am very disappointed with the fact that so many Americans are so lowbrow that they are willing to line up behind a Presidential candidate whom would turn everyday life into a drudgery of mundane existence. The Congress is similarly 'gone' as you suggest as we speak, with deposing the people's President. The ONLY reason they passed USMCA was to give the appearance of having done something other than pursue impeachment. That didn't work BTW, and following acquittal here we go again. But you can bet that were Dems to hold serve in the Congress in a Sanders scenario, they'd suddenly snap to.

My opinion is as follows---
Dems totally missed the reasons Trump beat them in 2016, which were political correctness, being lied to and surging taxes, as backdropped against a neutered military, rampant terrorism and ObamaCare. And now in view of their err, they have doubled down on their simplistic La-La lunacy and vowed to die on the remove-Trump-from-office-hill. They just will not admit that the people are seeing the truth of real economics as backdropped against a surging economy and they see through the impeachment hoax. But I hope you keep pitching because my batting average is leaning on a thousand.

[Cardfan1]

Yeah well the US taxpayer is not burdened with more money going out than he produces quite yet. I know that's your angle as you try to prove your contention that the US has been socialist all along. It hasn't. But as with all your argumentative revisions to reality, you imagine yourself clever enough to tell folks what they actually think. You can take your cues from the same idiot economists who claimed should Trump be elected the stock market would plunge 10 thousand points and further that we would never recover, if you want. And of course, you do want to deny economic reality in the same way you do everything else. Nobody's buying except true believer libs and the ones who get their opinions handed to them.


PETER MORICI---
Welcome to the Trump prosperity — the 3 percent GDP growth accomplished since the recent tax cuts and assault on abusive government regulation took hold are just a prelude of what could be accomplished if the endless Democratic attacks don’t bring down the administration and the organized left — the mainstream media, radical feminists and socialists — don’t highjack our personal liberties and destroy American capitalism.

But let's cut to the chase here. Should Bernie even survive until Nov 3rd, he has no chance of being elected. Such desperate hope.

America is not socialist, but it’s not purely capitalist anyone who can’t admit that is just being obtuse.

I agree what idiot would say the stock market would drop with Trump as president. He is probusiness no matter the cost to anything or anyone else.

Bernie has a long haul. I could see 3 candidates still running in May. All three have a chance to beat Trump if they can swing Pennsylvania and Michigan or Wisconsin.

Don’t take my defense of Bernie and perspective on the state of the nation as support of Bernie. I am still undecided in February.

[Cardfan1]

Now, I know how zealous you are with your Chris Hahn impersonation. But as I keep reminding you, just because you run down one of your liberal talking point rabbit holes, does not mean I will follow you in.

I said those things define Bernie Sanders and they do. If anything I have been far too gracious in my assessments of him and frankly, I am very disappointed with the fact that so many Americans are so lowbrow that they are willing to line up behind a Presidential candidate whom would turn everyday life into a drudgery of mundane existence. The Congress is similarly 'gone' as you suggest as we speak, with deposing the people's President. The ONLY reason they passed USMCA was to give the appearance of having done something other than pursue impeachment. That didn't work BTW, and following acquittal here we go again. But you can bet that were Dems to hold serve in the Congress in a Sanders scenario, they'd suddenly snap to.

My opinion is as follows---
Dems totally missed the reasons Trump beat them in 2016, which were political correctness, being lied to and surging taxes, as backdropped against a neutered military, rampant terrorism and ObamaCare. And now in view of their err, they have doubled down on their simplistic La-La lunacy and vowed to die on the remove-Trump-from-office-hill. They just will not admit that the people are seeing the truth of real economics as backdropped against a surging economy and they see through the impeachment hoax. But I hope you keep pitching because my batting average is leaning on a thousand.

I don’t know who Chris Hahn is.

Coincidentally you are missing how a guy like Bernie is leading a primary. There are just as many frustrations on the other side and in other demographics. Fact is neither party has really served their constituents for a long time. Democrats ran an establishment candidate when both sides were tired of the establishment.

[TheRealThing]

^^:thatsfunn

This republic has withstood a lot of threats in it's short life. Despite what ol Bern would tell us and for what you seem to advocate, one will not find free healthcare, free college, free cell phones, or free love for that matter, enumerated among the 'unalienable rights' spoken of by the founders. Giveaways are this nation's kryptonite, the foundation busting threat from which there is evidently no escape. No society can give itself money, or as Benjamin Franklin said--- "When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the Republic."


REASON ----Veronique de Rugy
ARTICLE EXCERPT [italics mine]
"We're to believe (according to Bernie Sanders) that Nordic government programs—such as free college, free graduate school, and nearly free health care, all paid for with higher consumption taxes—don't involve trade-offs in the form of lower wages as they do everywhere else.

Don't believe it, says Nima Sanandaji, a researcher who grew up in Sweden. His new book, 'Debunking Utopia: Exposing the Myth of Nordic Socialism" is a balanced and comprehensive analysis of Nordic public policies, including their home runs and failures. In particular, it nicely lays out the human and social cost of the welfare state.

Welfare policies have the same effects in Nordic countries as they do in other countries. As Nordic people have been asked to pay higher and higher taxes in exchange for the welfare payouts, their incentives to work less and capture government or mandatary company handouts have evolved to the point of "undermining the countries' economic foundations."

[TheRealThing]

I don’t know who Chris Hahn is.

Coincidentally you are missing how a guy like Bernie is leading a primary. There are just as many frustrations on the other side and in other demographics. Fact is neither party has really served their constituents for a long time. Democrats ran an establishment candidate when both sides were tired of the establishment.

FACT CHECK--- partly true


There you go again. Don't try to say Donald Trump hasn't served 'his' constituent's interests. The left and the self appointed RINO aristocracy are the ones who've distinguished themselves in ignoble eternity for starting and fomenting that lie. But DJT came in to drain the swamp, the establishment if you will. And for his trouble among many other slings and political Punji Stake pits, he got 'Cross Fire Hurricane' the Mueller Investigation' and the greatest show on earth Impeachment out of it. Everybody from Dan Coats to General Kelley have taken shot after shot at this President.

So the "both sides were tired of the establishment" part of your post is true.

[Cardfan1]

FACT CHECK--- partly true


There you go again. Don't try to say Donald Trump hasn't served 'his' constituent's interests. The left and the self appointed RINO aristocracy are the ones who've distinguished themselves in ignoble eternity for starting and fomenting that lie. But DJT came in to drain the swamp, the establishment if you will. And for his trouble among many other slings and political Punji Stake pits, he got 'Cross Fire Hurricane' the Mueller Investigation' and the greatest show on earth Impeachment out of it. Everybody from Dan Coats to General Kelley have taken shot after shot at this President.

So the "both sides were tired of the establishment" part of your post is true.

Yep. I wasn’t referring to Trump.

[Cardfan1]

^^:thatsfunn

This republic has withstood a lot of threats in it's short life. Despite what ol Bern would tell us and for what you seem to advocate, one will not find free healthcare, free college, free cell phones, or free love for that matter, enumerated among the 'unalienable rights' spoken of by the founders. Giveaways are this nation's kryptonite, the foundation busting threat from which there is evidently no escape. No society can give itself money, or as Benjamin Franklin said--- "When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the Republic."


REASON ----Veronique de Rugy
ARTICLE EXCERPT [italics mine]
"We're to believe (according to Bernie Sanders) that Nordic government programs—such as free college, free graduate school, and nearly free health care, all paid for with higher consumption taxes—don't involve trade-offs in the form of lower wages as they do everywhere else.

Don't believe it, says Nima Sanandaji, a researcher who grew up in Sweden. His new book, 'Debunking Utopia: Exposing the Myth of Nordic Socialism" is a balanced and comprehensive analysis of Nordic public policies, including their home runs and failures. In particular, it nicely lays out the human and social cost of the welfare state.

Welfare policies have the same effects in Nordic countries as they do in other countries. As Nordic people have been asked to pay higher and higher taxes in exchange for the welfare payouts, their incentives to work less and capture government or mandatary company handouts have evolved to the point of "undermining the countries' economic foundations."

I still don’t understand how you can be so dead set against services that help the many while our country doles out hundreds of billions in handouts to corporations just to help the few.

Giveaways are just for the rich just ask the president; he’s had plenty.

We love punching down in this nation.

[TheRealThing]

I still don’t understand how you can be so dead set against services that help the many while our country doles out hundreds of billions in handouts to corporations just to help the few.

Giveaways are just for the rich just ask the president; he’s had plenty.

We love punching down in this nation.

There is yet another thing that you don't understand. Corporations are not a bad thing. Neither are civilization, daily baths, warm comfortable homes, modern transportation, and a citizenry which largely have plenty to eat. That is other than for those unfortunate children of the drink and or drug, live-for-today crowd. In their cases their parents take government issued food stamps and waste them for pennies on the dollar to buy drugs or other illicit goods and services. Or they buy beer and cigarettes with them, leaving the little ones in want.

In any case, Corporations make things and provide jobs for those whom the government sees fit to tax into oblivion. Then thusly armed with the people's substance, the government proceeds to hand out goodies to the poor and the listless. So what I don't understand is why you think it is the government which is supposed to supplant the role of God in this universe, to become the provider of all good things. The Lord says we are to work for that which we need to provide for our family. The government doesn't require work, just one's vote. And that is why BTW, that the left has so stringently labored to redefine the nature of family. It is now any loose group of individuals whom find themselves in close proximity. But certainly there is no husband and wife. Only loose alliances of the most superficial nature dare enter.

Corporations have been the way of things since the days of Nebuchadnezzar there Cardfan. Do I need to further explain that to you as well?

[Hoot Gibson]

I still don’t understand how you can be so dead set against services that help the many while our country doles out hundreds of billions in handouts to corporations just to help the few.

Giveaways are just for the rich just ask the president; he’s had plenty.

We love punching down in this nation.

Your ignorance of our economy never ceases to amaze me. Either through ignorance or by design socialists like you often confuse lower tax rates and exemptions with subsidies. All of the money earned by individuals and corporations belongs to them until their government takes it from them. Money earned by corporations is double taxed because shareholders's dividends are taxed. Even when a corporation manages to avoid corporate taxes, its shareholders still pay taxes on the income it generates.

Lowering corporate tax rates benefits shareholders, who include those retirees and those saving for retirement through 401k plans. Your assertion that economic policies that lower the cost of doing business in this country help only a few people is just raw ignorance on parade. Most people who pay taxes in this country work for a corporation. Corporations do not pay taxes. Their taxes are ultimately paid by their customers, employees, and shareholders.

Socialists like you have bought into the notion of free government services with total disregard for those of us who actually pay a heavy price for those free services.

[TheRealThing]

Your ignorance of our economy never ceases to amaze me. Either through ignorance or by design socialists like you often confuse lower tax rates and exemptions with subsidies. All of the money earned by individuals and corporations belongs to them until their government takes it from them. Money earned by corporations is double taxed because shareholders's dividends are taxed. Even when a corporation manages to avoid corporate taxes, its shareholders still pay taxes on the income it generates.

Lowering corporate tax rates benefits shareholders, who include those retirees and those saving for retirement through 401k plans. Your assertion that economic policies that lower the cost of doing business in this country help only a few people is just raw ignorance on parade. Most people who pay taxes in this country work for a corporation. Corporations do not pay taxes. Their taxes are ultimately paid by their customers, employees, and shareholders.Socialists like you have bought into the notion of free government services with total disregard for those of us who actually pay a heavy price for those free services.

Exactly right. Corporations are nothing more than the written agreement by which the shareholders, employees, and management engage in US commerce. The corporation is according to the US Supreme Court, the people of whom it is comprised. From the janitor to the CEO, to the people who own the stock and participate in proxy votes to establish certain policy. As you say, the way things stand corporations are double taxed. That being the personal income taxes paid by each person involved plus, separate ccorporate taxation.

The various rulings of the court regarding the above, have had the left foaming at the mouth since they were handed down. Of course, the fact that the left sue corporations in an endless string of demands for money which are limited only to clever imagination, is none-the-less A-OK behavior though.

I do not believe there is an ounce of difference between today's liberal and those who existed at the time of our nation's founding. And speaking Ben Frankly, I believe that is why the founders were able to so skillfully craft our founding documents in a way the has kept them (libs) at bay for so long.

There is however a widening gulf, a separation if you will, which has appeared between a correct understanding of the truth of our heritage, and the consciousness of the people. Which lack of consciousness varies in degree of severity even in the halls of Congress. AOC and her pals demonstrating a disparity which is the most severe, to that of Mitt Romney and other RINO's. The voter has been the only serious check on the rabid liberal's encroachment to date as we saw beginning in 2010 when Dems were swept out of House control. Further, I believe it is arguable that this year's election will either confirm the afore mentioned gulf to have arrived at the point of existential severity, or will prove the voter still has enough wherewithal to stave off liberalism a decade or two longer.

[Cardfan1]

Your ignorance of our economy never ceases to amaze me. Either through ignorance or by design socialists like you often confuse lower tax rates and exemptions with subsidies. All of the money earned by individuals and corporations belongs to them until their government takes it from them. Money earned by corporations is double taxed because shareholders's dividends are taxed. Even when a corporation manages to avoid corporate taxes, its shareholders still pay taxes on the income it generates.

Lowering corporate tax rates benefits shareholders, who include those retirees and those saving for retirement through 401k plans. Your assertion that economic policies that lower the cost of doing business in this country help only a few people is just raw ignorance on parade. Most people who pay taxes in this country work for a corporation. Corporations do not pay taxes. Their taxes are ultimately paid by their customers, employees, and shareholders.

Socialists like you have bought into the notion of free government services with total disregard for those of us who actually pay a heavy price for those free services.

Are you saying that multibillion dollar corporations shouldn’t pay taxes while their employees should?

I am the ignorant one?!

[Cardfan1]

There is yet another thing that you don't understand. Corporations are not a bad thing. Neither are civilization, daily baths, warm comfortable homes, modern transportation, and a citizenry which largely have plenty to eat. That is other than for those unfortunate children of the drink and or drug, live-for-today crowd. In their cases their parents take government issued food stamps and waste them for pennies on the dollar to buy drugs or other illicit goods and services. Or they buy beer and cigarettes with them, leaving the little ones in want.

In any case, Corporations make things and provide jobs for those whom the government sees fit to tax into oblivion. Then thusly armed with the people's substance, the government proceeds to hand out goodies to the poor and the listless. So what I don't understand is why you think it is the government which is supposed to supplant the role of God in this universe, to become the provider of all good things. The Lord says we are to work for that which we need to provide for our family. The government doesn't require work, just one's vote. And that is why BTW, that the left has so stringently labored to redefine the nature of family. It is now any loose group of individuals whom find themselves in close proximity. But certainly there is no husband and wife. Only loose alliances of the most superficial nature dare enter.

Corporations have been the way of things since the days of Nebuchadnezzar there Cardfan. Do I need to further explain that to you as well?

Nope , you’re brainwashed. I understand.

[Hoot Gibson]

Are you saying that multibillion dollar corporations shouldn’t pay taxes while their employees should?

I am the ignorant one?!

Yes, you are the ignorant one. To be more precise, you are the more ignorant one. Everybody is ignorant of certain things but some people are determined to hoard ignorance on a broad array of subjects. You are such a hoarder.

Corporate taxes are an expense. Employee wages are an expense. Higher corporate taxes result in lower employee wages. When you advocate raising taxes on corporations, then you are advocating lower wages for employees and/or higher costs for consumers. Only dumbasses fail to grasp the fact that you cannot punish a corporation without injuring their employees and customers. Money can only be spent once.

[Cardfan1]

Yes, you are the ignorant one. To be more precise, you are the more ignorant one. Everybody is ignorant of certain things but some people are determined to hoard ignorance on a broad array of subjects. You are such a hoarder.

Corporate taxes are an expense. Employee wages are an expense. Higher corporate taxes result in lower employee wages. When you advocate raising taxes on corporations, then you are advocating lower wages for employees and/or higher costs for consumers. Only dumbasses fail to grasp the fact that you cannot punish a corporation without injuring their employees and customers. Money can only be spent once.

What you are suggesting is trickle-down economics which doesn't work. We have had nearly 40 years of empirical evidence that corporations do not use their tax breaks to raise the wage of the middle class worker. Top earners have skyrocketed though.

It's evident you guys love your socialism just not for the classes that need the help.

[Hoot Gibson]

What you are suggesting is trickle-down economics which doesn't work. We have had nearly 40 years of empirical evidence that corporations do not use their tax breaks to raise the wage of the middle class worker. Top earners have skyrocketed though.

It's evident you guys love your socialism just not for the classes that need the help.

Capitalism works. There are many reasons why this country attracts far more immigrants than we lose to emigration and have done so for more than two centuries but economic freedom and upward social mobility are at the top of the list.

Repeating the lie that creating a favorable business climate does not generate prosperity does not make it true. Communism and socialism, which you are advocating, whether you know it or not or whether you are simply playing the useful idiot role for your puppet masters who have seized control of the Democrat Party, are the fast lane and the slow lane of the same road to poverty and servitude.

Simple question. Are you unemployed by choice? I asked because your posts suggest that you have fallen into the deep well of victimhood and have been convinced that the successful people in this great country are keeping you down there. What was your major, Women's Studies? Medieval Literature?

[Cardfan1]

Capitalism works. There are many reasons why this country attracts far more immigrants than we lose to emigration and have done so for more than two centuries but economic freedom and upward social mobility are at the top of the list.

Repeating the lie that creating a favorable business climate does not generate prosperity does not make it true. Communism and socialism, which you are advocating, whether you know it or not or whether you are simply playing the useful idiot role for your puppet masters who have seized control of the Democrat Party, are the fast lane and the slow lane of the same road to poverty and servitude.

Simple question. Are you unemployed by choice? I asked because your posts suggest that you have fallen into the deep well of victimhood and have been convinced that the successful people in this great country are keeping you down there. What was your major, Women's Studies? Medieval Literature?

Actually I'm not advocating either Communism or Socialism. My argument throughout the thread has been we already employ several tenets of socialism in the country, and the ones the get the grief help people and the ones that are ignored allow the wealthy to stuff their pockets.

I would like to see the United States strengthen the middle class. Corporations have not shown that they can use the benefits heaped on them over the past half century to strengthen the middle class, so maybe it's left up to the govt to do that by taking away those benefits and passing them to the citizen. Healthcare and education seem to hit this demographic the hardest, so maybe that is the area that the govt controls unless you guys support a total redistribution of wealth. America's two booms for the middle class in the past century have come at times when taxes on the rich were at the highest 1950's and 1990's. However, currently we are watching the top 1% gobble up the wealth in American while the majority of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. I think that is the fervor that sent our current President to the White House, but I believe he has people duped too. He is business friendly not worker friendly, so that ticked off electorate is in the same place they were 4 years ago.

Been employed since I was 15 and have never not had a job. I'm not even in the demographic I'm trying to stand up for anymore, but I do remember having to decide between health insurance and car insurance. Sorry, I am not the liberal caricature you're trying to create.

[Hoot Gibson]

Actually I'm not advocating either Communism or Socialism. My argument throughout the thread has been we already employ several tenets of socialism in the country, and the ones the get the grief help people and the ones that are ignored allow the wealthy to stuff their pockets.

I would like to see the United States strengthen the middle class. Corporations have not shown that they can use the benefits heaped on them over the past half century to strengthen the middle class, so maybe it's left up to the govt to do that by taking away those benefits and passing them to the citizen. Healthcare and education seem to hit this demographic the hardest, so maybe that is the area that the govt controls unless you guys support a total redistribution of wealth. America's two booms for the middle class in the past century have come at times when taxes on the rich were at the highest 1950's and 1990's. However, currently we are watching the top 1% gobble up the wealth in American while the majority of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. I think that is the fervor that sent our current President to the White House, but I believe he has people duped too. He is business friendly not worker friendly, so that ticked off electorate is in the same place they were 4 years ago.

Been employed since I was 15 and have never not had a job. I'm not even in the demographic I'm trying to stand up for anymore, but I do remember having to decide between health insurance and car insurance. Sorry, I am not the liberal caricature you're trying to create.

You never answered my question. You just continued advocating more socialism. More than half of the productive people in this country are employed by corporations with 500 or more employees. The federal government does favor large corporations over smaller ones but we should never lose sight of the fact that the private sector produces all of the wealth, prosperity, and financial security that we have in this country. Our government is a consumer of wealth.

[TheRealThing]

What you are suggesting is trickle-down economics which doesn't work. We have had nearly 40 years of empirical evidence that corporations do not use their tax breaks to raise the wage of the middle class worker. Top earners have skyrocketed though.

It's evident you guys love your socialism just not for the classes that need the help.

"Personally, I would rather see a mini-controlled revolution redistributing some of the wealth on healthcare and education and infrastructure to improve society." Your anti-American words?

One DNC lie being broadcast broadly right now is that the Trump economic successes are hitched to Obama's economic policy coat tails. In other words if one prefers a steady diet of lies over the truth, the DNC option is to believe Trump is trying to steal credit for something Obama has done. Under Obama's 8 year long period of 1.8% economic growth, the working middle class suffered miserably. And even then almost every dime of the razor thin 1.8% went to the top 1%. It was your hero Obama's quantitatively eased economy which afforded top algorithmic earners the opportunity to see skyrocketing gains, he admitted that fact openly; https://wtvr.com/2013/09/15/obama-admits...-to-top-1/

So by your hero's own cooked statistics, your side had 8 years to rectify the very issues you so diligently and emotionally defend here. Middle class growth. Instead the middle class got had at every turn. Nobody buys your act BTW, and Dems did get caught with their economic pants down, but in your mind, the voter will conveniently forget all about that and vote in the Dems again anyway. :please:

But this is what you always do, and you can say the Cardfan persona hasn't visited the forum before, but YOU certainly have. And every time you get painted into a corner, which is often, the default tactic is to come back out with some tinderbox rhetoric in order to reset the conversation to one of your same old circular logic arguments. Arguments BTW, the substance of which run contrary to our heritage, our history, the record, and IMHO, any Godly interpretation of morality.

[Cardfan1]

"Personally, I would rather see a mini-controlled revolution redistributing some of the wealth on healthcare and education and infrastructure to improve society." Your anti-American words?

One DNC lie being broadcast broadly right now is that the Trump economic successes are hitched to Obama's economic policy coat tails. In other words if one prefers a steady diet of lies over the truth, the DNC option is to believe Trump is trying to steal credit for something Obama has done. Under Obama's 8 year long period of 1.8% economic growth, the working middle class suffered miserably. And even then almost every dime of the razor thin 1.8% went to the top 1%. It was your hero Obama's quantitatively eased economy which afforded top algorithmic earners the opportunity to see skyrocketing gains, he admitted that fact openly; https://wtvr.com/2013/09/15/obama-admits...-to-top-1/

So by your hero's own cooked statistics, your side had 8 years to rectify the very issues you so diligently and emotionally defend here. Middle class growth. Instead the middle class got had at every turn. Nobody buys your act BTW, and Dems did get caught with their economic pants down, but in your mind, the voter will conveniently forget all about that and vote in the Dems again anyway. :please:

But this is what you always do, and you can say the Cardfan persona hasn't visited the forum before, but YOU certainly have. And every time you get painted into a corner, which is often, the default tactic is to come back out with some tinderbox rhetoric in order to reset the conversation to one of your same old circular logic arguments. Arguments BTW, the substance of which run contrary to our heritage, our history, the record, and IMHO, any Godly interpretation of morality.

It's Anti-American to want the nation to be better...that's new.

TBH Wasn't even that big of a fan of Obama. His inexperience caused him to do exactly what I have railed against in this thread.

I do think your numbers are skewed as Obama's job growth was hampered by the shockwaves of 2008. By that same token Trump relaxed regulations and we've seen the growth Obama had in his second term continue. It's a bit disingenuous to act as if Trump jump started the economy from the grave and Obama put it there.

I really don't know who you think I am, but that's not me. Those circular arguments usually are just trying to stay on topic.