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03-21-2019, 07:45 PM
Anyone reading my posts knows of my fascination with the concept of time. The Lord at some point past, had to but speak the universe into existence, and part of that universe according to Einstein and Hawking, is time. Space time to be exact. A fabric of substance ascribable to realm of physics which according to the theory of relativity, can under certain extremes as yet unattainable by man be stretched or compressed. In other words time can be speeded up. Such stretching or compressing of space time would only be measurable however, when compared to the constants of normal space time. Normal space time is what we see and live by here on earth. But space travel could be used to bend or compress time for a space (or time) traveler. To demonstrate his idea, Einstein said that an astronaut, the oldest of two brothers, could leave earth on a journey through space. But if the astronaut could exceed the speed of light, for him the effects of time would be greatly slowed down. So for example, upon his return far more time would have elapsed on earth than inside his space ship. It stands then that upon his return he could be far younger than his younger brother. Notwithstanding, though the space traveler might come back to earth a hundred years in the future but having aged only a few hours himself, the only thing affected by this compressing of space time would apply to the astronaut himself. For everyone else things would have gone on as usual.
Stephen Hawking through his many achievements, was considered by the scientific community to have followed in Einstein's footsteps in the study of physics. Hawking put things like this... First, the Big Bang was definitely a real event, and as such was the source of all things within the universe. Further, there is a connective fabric suspended between all of this universe's heavenly bodies, comets, asteroids, planets, moons, nebulas, black holes etc.. This is the fabric of space time, and as such could be visualized as being like an infinite grid work, (like an invisible graph paper) with it's intersecting lines stretching across the entire universe.
According to Hawking this fabric of space time is a spontaneous side effect of the Big Bang. Thus time did not exist prior to the legendary explosion. And therefore said Hawking, since the origins of the universe are answerable by the Big Bang apart from any creative workings of God, and since time did not exist prior to the Big Bang, time would not have existed, nor any need for God to do anything. So, how big was this rock that exploded? About the size of a grape. A quantum mechanics defying grape because, according to the laws of quantum mechanics things can be condensed down only so small. There are scientific limits to things getting small. So to theorize that all of the matter contained in the entire universe was at that beginning point in times past compressed down to the size of a grape, is to accept that which science has proven to be impossible.
God created time as a commodity for men to use, and time likely has only existed since God spoke the earth into existence. So, for the most part Hawking was right to say that time started with the Big Bang. But he put his faith into the wrong rock⦠or bang. The Rock of Ages was the starting point for time, and space, and all matter, and all life.
There are all kinds of ways to keep time. Shadows for example, from the obelisk in King Hezekiah's Royal gardens fell across the garden steps each day. He knew what time it was by observing upon which step the shadow fell. And we know that sundials have been in use since 1500 BC. And that clocks have ticked since men invented them in the AD 700âs. We all have, just so much time to spend in this life, and as such other than the power to choose, is likely the most precious gift that God has given men. When you hear somebody try to debate about the idea that there had to be something before God, or that God Himself had to have a starting point, you know they're either whistling past the graveyard or completely uninformed. God lives outside of time, but men are ruled by time and limited to that which they can understand. How could any man say he understands the things of God? The prospect is as absurd, as the liberal notion that men can judge Biblical law as being wrong where It applies to the homosexual lifestyle or the murderous act of abortion. God did not have to have a starting point. He existed for eternity past before He created time, and I doubt man will ever really say he can wrap his head around the truth of that.
1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV)
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
God's providence and majesty are more aptly depicted within the Scriptures, as was so profoundly demonstrated in the life of King Hezekiah. Albert Einstein theorized that time could be distorted in relative terms, but only from the perspective of the one or the few, that might be able to exceed the speed of light for a time. But that which the Lord did one day for King Hezekiah was a miracle. A miracle is something that happens which defies the ability to explain. In other words something that lays outside of the orderly laws that govern this universe. Since God created the universe, only He can perform actions that defy the laws which reliably govern the universe. King Hezekiah was about to die. He went to the Lord and weeping sore, pled for his life. (Time is precious and we all have only so much of it). The Lord granted Hezekiah's request, and by way of a sign meant to hearten the King to that end and fortify him once again, God performed the miracle of turning back time. Because believe me, just having to hear the doctor tell you you've got a mere few days to live, is almost enough to kill a man, on and of itself. And the shaken Hezekiah needed to be restored mentally as well. But God set back the shadow on the good King's garden steps, 15 degrees. That action defies physics, space time and, the orderly workings of our entire solar system at the minimum. Because unlike the space traveler, this wasn't just one man's life or one man's perspective, the miracle of moving time BACKWARDS defies "E=mc²" in which the advance or 'passage of time' can be manipulated. Einstein's vision can only account for changes in time moving forward. But the miracle performed for King Hezekiah, (and everyone else BTW) involved the working's of the entire solar system, in the altering of the orbits of every last planet and moon, backwards. Against the laws of momentum, gravity and relativity. As in the feeble explanation that has been offered up for the parting of the Red Sea, they try often. But modern science will never be able to adequately explain away even one of the miracles of God. Much less the fact that it was He, Who created the universe.
God's miracles will always confound the scientific community, whether in the days of King Hezekiah, about 670 BC, or 2019. Because frankly, true wisdom and knowledge are two sides of the same coin, and as such are matters of choice. Today as yesterday, men like Einstein and Hawking deny God as Creator, and by choice deny the Lordship and sovereignty of Jesus. And glaring through their vain attempts to replace the creation account, can be seen the contradictions and unexplainables. Thus to overcome the problems encountered in spontaneous generation and the impasse of contradiction presented by a grape sized super nugget, Hawking suggested that there are many universes coexisting simultaneously across many dimensions. How many? At least as many dimensions as there are stars. An impossibly incalculable number. But that in one of these innumerable universes it worked anyway. And we live in it. :please:
Still, let's give credit where it's due. In some pretty profound ways, Einstein and Hawking's theories are right. They just happen to have both started from the wrong place. Time may well be relative as Einstein contends.
2 Peter 3:8 (KJV)
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
And Hawking is in all likelihood, right to say that time did not exist prior to the existence of the universe. And I believe that with the advance of science, one day space time probably could be manipulated in the same way men now manipulate the atom in the release of atomic energy.
Genesis 11:5-6 (KJV)
5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
I believe man has the ability to do anything he can imagine. But as I have stated before, God confounded the language of men there at the tower of Babel as a means to slow down their progress in order to conform that progress to His prophetic schedule. The language barrier is now broken down again however, and once again anything men can imagine would seem to be within their grasp. But the same bent for evil that would have brought about manâs premature destruction in the days of King Nimrod, will prevent any sort of glorious and harmonious future. Because control over the whole earth in the person of one corrupt man, Antichrist, is soon coming. He will rise to a ruthless rule which will make all the little Antichrists the likes of the murderous Maduro, look like choir boys. Hitler was a much more notable forerunner, as was Antiochus Epiphanes.
Though man may boast that he has an understanding of time, it is God Who controls time. And He Who truly lives outside of time has clearly seen the end. Thus we who believe and read His Word already have many of the answers. Unfortunately, things do not end well for those found outside of Christ. And that is not a relative statement. In saying all of that, I believe that in our time, all men have been impressed with the shortness of time. That is in the sense that something apocalyptic and existential is on the rise. The time of the Great Tribulation is drawing near, This will be the biggest event in the history of man, and he can sense it within his being.
Stephen Hawking through his many achievements, was considered by the scientific community to have followed in Einstein's footsteps in the study of physics. Hawking put things like this... First, the Big Bang was definitely a real event, and as such was the source of all things within the universe. Further, there is a connective fabric suspended between all of this universe's heavenly bodies, comets, asteroids, planets, moons, nebulas, black holes etc.. This is the fabric of space time, and as such could be visualized as being like an infinite grid work, (like an invisible graph paper) with it's intersecting lines stretching across the entire universe.
According to Hawking this fabric of space time is a spontaneous side effect of the Big Bang. Thus time did not exist prior to the legendary explosion. And therefore said Hawking, since the origins of the universe are answerable by the Big Bang apart from any creative workings of God, and since time did not exist prior to the Big Bang, time would not have existed, nor any need for God to do anything. So, how big was this rock that exploded? About the size of a grape. A quantum mechanics defying grape because, according to the laws of quantum mechanics things can be condensed down only so small. There are scientific limits to things getting small. So to theorize that all of the matter contained in the entire universe was at that beginning point in times past compressed down to the size of a grape, is to accept that which science has proven to be impossible.
God created time as a commodity for men to use, and time likely has only existed since God spoke the earth into existence. So, for the most part Hawking was right to say that time started with the Big Bang. But he put his faith into the wrong rock⦠or bang. The Rock of Ages was the starting point for time, and space, and all matter, and all life.
There are all kinds of ways to keep time. Shadows for example, from the obelisk in King Hezekiah's Royal gardens fell across the garden steps each day. He knew what time it was by observing upon which step the shadow fell. And we know that sundials have been in use since 1500 BC. And that clocks have ticked since men invented them in the AD 700âs. We all have, just so much time to spend in this life, and as such other than the power to choose, is likely the most precious gift that God has given men. When you hear somebody try to debate about the idea that there had to be something before God, or that God Himself had to have a starting point, you know they're either whistling past the graveyard or completely uninformed. God lives outside of time, but men are ruled by time and limited to that which they can understand. How could any man say he understands the things of God? The prospect is as absurd, as the liberal notion that men can judge Biblical law as being wrong where It applies to the homosexual lifestyle or the murderous act of abortion. God did not have to have a starting point. He existed for eternity past before He created time, and I doubt man will ever really say he can wrap his head around the truth of that.
1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV)
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
God's providence and majesty are more aptly depicted within the Scriptures, as was so profoundly demonstrated in the life of King Hezekiah. Albert Einstein theorized that time could be distorted in relative terms, but only from the perspective of the one or the few, that might be able to exceed the speed of light for a time. But that which the Lord did one day for King Hezekiah was a miracle. A miracle is something that happens which defies the ability to explain. In other words something that lays outside of the orderly laws that govern this universe. Since God created the universe, only He can perform actions that defy the laws which reliably govern the universe. King Hezekiah was about to die. He went to the Lord and weeping sore, pled for his life. (Time is precious and we all have only so much of it). The Lord granted Hezekiah's request, and by way of a sign meant to hearten the King to that end and fortify him once again, God performed the miracle of turning back time. Because believe me, just having to hear the doctor tell you you've got a mere few days to live, is almost enough to kill a man, on and of itself. And the shaken Hezekiah needed to be restored mentally as well. But God set back the shadow on the good King's garden steps, 15 degrees. That action defies physics, space time and, the orderly workings of our entire solar system at the minimum. Because unlike the space traveler, this wasn't just one man's life or one man's perspective, the miracle of moving time BACKWARDS defies "E=mc²" in which the advance or 'passage of time' can be manipulated. Einstein's vision can only account for changes in time moving forward. But the miracle performed for King Hezekiah, (and everyone else BTW) involved the working's of the entire solar system, in the altering of the orbits of every last planet and moon, backwards. Against the laws of momentum, gravity and relativity. As in the feeble explanation that has been offered up for the parting of the Red Sea, they try often. But modern science will never be able to adequately explain away even one of the miracles of God. Much less the fact that it was He, Who created the universe.
God's miracles will always confound the scientific community, whether in the days of King Hezekiah, about 670 BC, or 2019. Because frankly, true wisdom and knowledge are two sides of the same coin, and as such are matters of choice. Today as yesterday, men like Einstein and Hawking deny God as Creator, and by choice deny the Lordship and sovereignty of Jesus. And glaring through their vain attempts to replace the creation account, can be seen the contradictions and unexplainables. Thus to overcome the problems encountered in spontaneous generation and the impasse of contradiction presented by a grape sized super nugget, Hawking suggested that there are many universes coexisting simultaneously across many dimensions. How many? At least as many dimensions as there are stars. An impossibly incalculable number. But that in one of these innumerable universes it worked anyway. And we live in it. :please:
Still, let's give credit where it's due. In some pretty profound ways, Einstein and Hawking's theories are right. They just happen to have both started from the wrong place. Time may well be relative as Einstein contends.
2 Peter 3:8 (KJV)
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
And Hawking is in all likelihood, right to say that time did not exist prior to the existence of the universe. And I believe that with the advance of science, one day space time probably could be manipulated in the same way men now manipulate the atom in the release of atomic energy.
Genesis 11:5-6 (KJV)
5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
I believe man has the ability to do anything he can imagine. But as I have stated before, God confounded the language of men there at the tower of Babel as a means to slow down their progress in order to conform that progress to His prophetic schedule. The language barrier is now broken down again however, and once again anything men can imagine would seem to be within their grasp. But the same bent for evil that would have brought about manâs premature destruction in the days of King Nimrod, will prevent any sort of glorious and harmonious future. Because control over the whole earth in the person of one corrupt man, Antichrist, is soon coming. He will rise to a ruthless rule which will make all the little Antichrists the likes of the murderous Maduro, look like choir boys. Hitler was a much more notable forerunner, as was Antiochus Epiphanes.
Though man may boast that he has an understanding of time, it is God Who controls time. And He Who truly lives outside of time has clearly seen the end. Thus we who believe and read His Word already have many of the answers. Unfortunately, things do not end well for those found outside of Christ. And that is not a relative statement. In saying all of that, I believe that in our time, all men have been impressed with the shortness of time. That is in the sense that something apocalyptic and existential is on the rise. The time of the Great Tribulation is drawing near, This will be the biggest event in the history of man, and he can sense it within his being.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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08-17-2019, 07:13 PM
The deniers of God speaking about the existence of God, state oftentimes (and this includes Stephen Hawing BTW) that God like everything else had to have a beginning. A starting point. Of God's creation, we can actually 'see' precious little if you ask me. Most of it is likely hidden from us.
Again, Einstein and Hawking stated categorically that time did not even exist until the universe came into existence, which they attribute to the Big Bang. I agree with them BTW, I do not believe that time existed prior to the six days of creation. Not via any big bang, the creation was nonetheless a very 'big deal.' God's Word says that He is Creator of all things. And God has said that time has no impact on His being because after all, He created time along with everything else. In other words the Creator is not governed by that which He has created. Such a notion is ludicrous and completely misplaced.
But that is the way of men. In trying to understand all the things they see around them, that which God has created, in their arrogance they mistakenly try to force God Himself, into being governed by the laws of nature or creation. If I build a better mouse trap am I then subject to it? Or is it the other way around? Notwithstanding I might slip up and get a finger whacked in testing. But God cannot be compared, nor deterred, nor influenced. Nor can He in any way be subject, or shocked, or surprised or deceived, or deprived of the slightest detail of any of our secrets. He knows everything all the time.
But because it was He Who created all things, God existed before time, before the universe, and before men walked on the earth. Thus when Moses asked by what name God should be called, God said go tell the children of Israel "I AM" hath sent thee to them. God has no beginning and no end attributable to any imagination of man or any force of nature or any cause at all.
For men it is different however, though I believe in speaking of eternity the Lord is just referring to that point at which men will make their transition to exist as He does, outside of time. And for this reason in the Lord's eyes the second death, which will be suffered by all those who will not bow before Him during their life here on earth, literally means to be eternally 'separated' from God, which is the state of dying forever without end. If you can verbalize that nightmare you're a better man than I.
It is God Whom preordained our every physical attribute, and formed us to that end in our mother's womb. We are each of us His unique creations and as such we are answerable to Him. This the function of the Judgment. We will give an account of our entire lives before Him. And because at that point, time will have absolutely no meaning for us either, we will all have more than ample opportunity to go through every last detail of our lives. See, though we all had a starting point, birth; whether we've been reconciled to Him, having chosen to bow before Him claiming the blood of Christ. Or whether we choose to deny Him and that precious reconciliation He has provided, we will exist forever in one of two 'places' for lack of a better term to describe it. In heaven with God, The Son and the Holy Spirit along with the heavenly hosts. Or in Hell with Satan, the fallen angels and the eternally damned. And by way of a not so small aside here, every time an innocent and precious baby is aborted, no matter what men say on the campaign trail or TV or Planned Parenthood, a person; that is one of God's own uniquely created individuals, has been killed by men. The Lord makes them and men kill them. Incredible arrogance. And BTW, votes matter.
"Time is the fire in which we burn." ----Gene Roddenberry
But God has likened our time on earth to a passing mist, or vapor. As in the passing mist of a single breath on a cool morning. And like Roddenberry suggests, what we do with the time we have here, really does define us. And to that end the one thing we'd each better get right is what we will do with, or what choice we will make, regarding the lordship of Christ Jesus. And believe me, the time to choose for God is short and terrifyingly important. Because in putting off that choice, we have undeniably chosen against Him. The Scriptures say that people will live out their lives on earth as if they have forever, but all we really have is today.
James 4:14 (KJV)
14 Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.
Again, Einstein and Hawking stated categorically that time did not even exist until the universe came into existence, which they attribute to the Big Bang. I agree with them BTW, I do not believe that time existed prior to the six days of creation. Not via any big bang, the creation was nonetheless a very 'big deal.' God's Word says that He is Creator of all things. And God has said that time has no impact on His being because after all, He created time along with everything else. In other words the Creator is not governed by that which He has created. Such a notion is ludicrous and completely misplaced.
But that is the way of men. In trying to understand all the things they see around them, that which God has created, in their arrogance they mistakenly try to force God Himself, into being governed by the laws of nature or creation. If I build a better mouse trap am I then subject to it? Or is it the other way around? Notwithstanding I might slip up and get a finger whacked in testing. But God cannot be compared, nor deterred, nor influenced. Nor can He in any way be subject, or shocked, or surprised or deceived, or deprived of the slightest detail of any of our secrets. He knows everything all the time.
But because it was He Who created all things, God existed before time, before the universe, and before men walked on the earth. Thus when Moses asked by what name God should be called, God said go tell the children of Israel "I AM" hath sent thee to them. God has no beginning and no end attributable to any imagination of man or any force of nature or any cause at all.
For men it is different however, though I believe in speaking of eternity the Lord is just referring to that point at which men will make their transition to exist as He does, outside of time. And for this reason in the Lord's eyes the second death, which will be suffered by all those who will not bow before Him during their life here on earth, literally means to be eternally 'separated' from God, which is the state of dying forever without end. If you can verbalize that nightmare you're a better man than I.
It is God Whom preordained our every physical attribute, and formed us to that end in our mother's womb. We are each of us His unique creations and as such we are answerable to Him. This the function of the Judgment. We will give an account of our entire lives before Him. And because at that point, time will have absolutely no meaning for us either, we will all have more than ample opportunity to go through every last detail of our lives. See, though we all had a starting point, birth; whether we've been reconciled to Him, having chosen to bow before Him claiming the blood of Christ. Or whether we choose to deny Him and that precious reconciliation He has provided, we will exist forever in one of two 'places' for lack of a better term to describe it. In heaven with God, The Son and the Holy Spirit along with the heavenly hosts. Or in Hell with Satan, the fallen angels and the eternally damned. And by way of a not so small aside here, every time an innocent and precious baby is aborted, no matter what men say on the campaign trail or TV or Planned Parenthood, a person; that is one of God's own uniquely created individuals, has been killed by men. The Lord makes them and men kill them. Incredible arrogance. And BTW, votes matter.
"Time is the fire in which we burn." ----Gene Roddenberry
But God has likened our time on earth to a passing mist, or vapor. As in the passing mist of a single breath on a cool morning. And like Roddenberry suggests, what we do with the time we have here, really does define us. And to that end the one thing we'd each better get right is what we will do with, or what choice we will make, regarding the lordship of Christ Jesus. And believe me, the time to choose for God is short and terrifyingly important. Because in putting off that choice, we have undeniably chosen against Him. The Scriptures say that people will live out their lives on earth as if they have forever, but all we really have is today.
James 4:14 (KJV)
14 Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
09-10-2019, 05:44 AM
Dude you just became my new best friend. I love astronomy, physics. Well mostly astrophysics. I read all of it! Time, relatively, time dilation! I especially love reading how science basically proves the Bible. Although I didnât need it to In the first place, but still! I love the connection between God/faith and all of it. The only thing I think we might disagree with maybe..... is to me, time. I still somewhat view time as a delusion. God to me, is omnipresent, there is no past, present, future for him. While we as man are bound by it, sometimes I tbink are we really? Iâll live forever with my lord, so what is time when I know this? I guess looking back delusion is a bad word for it. Itâs hard to explain all of my thoughts on it typing on a phone haha. But if time is finite, it can be sped up or slowed down, how is it as real as say gravity? Which we canât manipulate? Iâm fascinated by all of it. Thereâs a good website called Listverse where you can search top 10âs of everything just about, I usually stick to the science part of it. You should check it out. But I think about it a lot. Does how one perceives time over someone else effect it? What about perception. If a person on the moon jumped up and and back down, when did it really happen? At the time that he actually done it? Or when you perceived it a tad bit later on earth? I look forward to more posts about stuff like this from you. Maybe next time I wonât be so tired and On a cell phone and we can get deeper into it.
09-11-2019, 09:48 PM
Hound05 Wrote:Dude you just became my new best friend. I love astronomy, physics. Well mostly astrophysics. I read all of it! Time, relatively, time dilation! I especially love reading how science basically proves the Bible. Although I didnât need it to In the first place, but still! I love the connection between God/faith and all of it. The only thing I think we might disagree with maybe..... is to me, time. I still somewhat view time as a delusion. God to me, is omnipresent, there is no past, present, future for him. While we as man are bound by it, sometimes I tbink are we really? Iâll live forever with my lord, so what is time when I know this? I guess looking back delusion is a bad word for it. Itâs hard to explain all of my thoughts on it typing on a phone haha. But if time is finite, it can be sped up or slowed down, how is it as real as say gravity? Which we canât manipulate? Iâm fascinated by all of it. Thereâs a good website called Listverse where you can search top 10âs of everything just about, I usually stick to the science part of it. You should check it out. But I think about it a lot. Does how one perceives time over someone else effect it? What about perception. If a person on the moon jumped up and and back down, when did it really happen? At the time that he actually done it? Or when you perceived it a tad bit later on earth? I look forward to more posts about stuff like this from you. Maybe next time I wonât be so tired and On a cell phone and we can get deeper into it.
I've tried to wrap my head around the concept of time for many years now. The reason being as stated above, there are those who contend (including Einstein and Hawking) that God likely does not exist because in their minds, everything that exists can be answered for in science.
In their minds as the case of eternity and the sovereignty of God may be concerned, the existence of time starts with the appearance of the universe. On that very narrow point, I find myself able to agree with them. God says He created the universe, and all we see here on earth, in 6 days. And what is it that makes a day? The earth rotates at a certain speed, and that speed is measureable from dawn of one day to dawn of the next. Adjusting of course for seasonal changes which reliably and predictably affect the length of each day and night. That's a day.
It follows then as the Lord says, man's days are numbered and as such, God has appointed the specific day that each one of us will die. So from the perspective that we have a preordained life span on this earth, we ought to use our time wisely IMHO. But I agree that time actually finds it's starting point at creation. I don't buy the big bang at all. That is not until the end, when the universe is melted away with a fervent heat, to be replaced with a new creation.
2 Peter 3:10 (KJV)
10 'But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.' There's your big bang. :biggrin:
King Nebuchadnezzar was king over this world's first great civilization, and as such was very interested in time, as was the man whom would become next in authority under the king. That man was none other than he who survived the firery furnace and a night in the lion's den, Daniel.
Daniel interpreted King Nebuchadnezzar's dream or vision, about the great statue standing on the plain of Shiloh, sparing the lives of ALL the wise men in the kingdom for having done so.
But the king looking at all that he had accomplished could not help but be somewhat overwhelmed with it all. He wondered what the end of man would be, and how many years would mankind last. God's answer to him was in the form of a vision of a giant statue, the meaning of the statue was to given to him by Daniel, God's servant. But as we presently see, the end of man is upon us. Recorded history ticks by in something over 6 thousand days and counting. But in assessing the historical status of King Nebuchadnezzar's kingdom, God in having compared Babylon to all those following, by likening it unto the statue's "head of gold." So the world today is an extension of the orderly financial and governmental processes set up by King Nebuchadnezzar. Commerce and consequently the idea of money, law enforcement, an organized military, education, plying one's trade, health care, transportation, you name it. Everything the world has other than the internet, phones and computers, was put in place by King Nebuchadnezzar.
But Daniel was extremely interested to know all that he could and asked the Lord to that end. And God did tell him how to number the days of Israel's existence using a 'weeks of years' formula. Which formula is what we have used to determine the length of the Tribulation for example.
Daniel 12:13 (KJV)
13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.
The lesser point being that Daniels days like the rest of us, were numbered.
The point is this-- God is in no way impacted by the limitations of time as we. He has no days to live, and He calls Himself "I AM" That is His name because He is limitless in any way man could ever imagine. God created the universe containing our solar system. In that solar system is a planet we call earth and the earth spins in cycles we call days, divided by 24 hours and so on. So dependable is the predictable passage of time that scientists can go back hundreds of years to accurately plot the positions of the planets at any given point in time. Just as they can accurately predict where Mars will be at a given point, and there are established launch windows should we ever attempt space travel there.
So, where this idea that time can be manipulated is concerned, if we ever were to get to that point, it is and would be a very narrow application. Time only for the people/person in a space ship would be affected by exceeding the speed of light. The rest of the universe would not. But no matter how fast space travel may attaint to, there is no way to reverse time, only slow down or speed up the passage of time.
What God did for Hezekiah was a miracle which defied the notion of space time and the laws of astrophysics and thermodynamics, and classical mechanics. God moved time backwards for King Hezekiah as a sign, just for the sake of his mental health and wellbeing.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
09-14-2019, 05:13 AM
Hound05 Wrote:Dude you just became my new best friend. I love astronomy, physics. Well mostly astrophysics. I read all of it! Time, relatively, time dilation! I especially love reading how science basically proves the Bible. Although I didnât need it to In the first place, but still! I love the connection between God/faith and all of it. The only thing I think we might disagree with maybe..... is to me, time. I still somewhat view time as a delusion. God to me, is omnipresent, there is no past, present, future for him. While we as man are bound by it, sometimes I tbink are we really? Iâll live forever with my lord, so what is time when I know this? I guess looking back delusion is a bad word for it. Itâs hard to explain all of my thoughts on it typing on a phone haha. But if time is finite, it can be sped up or slowed down, how is it as real as say gravity? Which we canât manipulate? Iâm fascinated by all of it. Thereâs a good website called Listverse where you can search top 10âs of everything just about, I usually stick to the science part of it. You should check it out. But I think about it a lot. Does how one perceives time over someone else effect it? What about perception. If a person on the moon jumped up and and back down, when did it really happen? At the time that he actually done it? Or when you perceived it a tad bit later on earth? I look forward to more posts about stuff like this from you. Maybe next time I wonât be so tired and On a cell phone and we can get deeper into it.
Sorry for not responding more directly to some of your thoughts in the last post but, just wanted to sort through some points to clarify what I admit was very lengthy by way of premise. LOL
Although I believe both time and gravity exist because they are part of God's orderly creation, I do not believe time is real in the same sense that gravity is real. Time is, nonetheless, real. Time is what each of us use up during our life spans here on earth. And in considering our finite lifespans, we may have the clue to defining the nature of eternity in some small sense. That being such that eternity is life lived in the absence of time, outside of the constraints of time as was the case prior to the creation, and will be the case after the eradication of creation according to God's preordained plan as was clearly stated in 2 Peter 3:10 above. But as I said, the universe's existence since it's birth is measurable or 'relative,' to borrow from MR Einstein, from the perspective of our little sun. The effects of which are measurable in the exact number of days on which our sun has dawned on this earth. I just find it incredibly profound to understand that God discussed all of this in His Word. It is not for lack of information, the confusion (not on your part but perhaps that of science), is because in man's natural state, his nature dictates that he will always consciously reject the truths of God. Though subconsciously man is very aware of the presence of God, to the point that from the dawn of time men have cursed using God's name in vain. And our speech and writings are filled with references to Him.
But unlike the stuff of movies and books and fake science from man's perspective at least, (not that either Einstein or Hawking were wrong in anything they said except for God's true role in creation), time is not some mysterious substance to be visited and traveled forward and backward in. It's just the elapsed daily cycle of days as that applies specifically on this one little planet of ours. The whole point of it all is the Lord set it all in motion, creation, and He is coming again 'relatively' soon. At some point "quickly" thereafter to judge every man and recreate what will be the eternal habitat for those who choose to bow before Him in repentance of their sin. Everything that exists, belongs to Him. And when this garden of men called earth is through producing souls for His glory, He will put an end to it the same way a farmer plows under this year's crop residue.
The following is why Darwin, Einstein and Hawking could not see the truth, and also why most of America cannot see the truth. Menâs rebellious hearts have been darkened.
Romans 1:21-22 (KJV)
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Further, this is why we now seem hell bent to pass laws in defiance of that which our own hearts tells us is contrary to the will of our creator. Of course, that's why He put us here, to make that very specific choice. Man is willfully ignorant of the truth because as the Lord has said in Romans, He revealed Himself-- even the mystery of the Godhead, to EVERY man, therefore are they without excuse.
Romans 1:20 (KJV)
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
The earth spins and keeps on clicking off those days, but only because God's sustaining power causes it to do so. If He stopped doing that which He has done since the creation, the building blocks of creation atomic and subatomic structures, would loose cohesiveness and fly apart. Likely very much as do the explosive processes of an atom bomb. Or as I prefer to think, as described in 2 Peter 3:10. Time is like a matrix I suppose, and as such may be superficially comparable to the void of space. they're both there and measurable, but trying to understand either of them is difficult. Space goes on forever without end. Where would nothing start, and where would nothing end? Space is the matrix in which the vast array of the universe is suspended. Time on the other hand is the matrix in which the history of man is suspended. They both serve a purpose, but neither is the progenitor of anything at all.
Science says the universe sprang into existence spontaneously from nothing, and that the matter which constitutes our bodies was once part of a star, or stars. And in order to quiet those of more lucid mindedness, science says further that time, in the vast aeons necessary to provide opportunity for ample evolutionary trial and error, actually happened. And as such constitutes the great equalizer for that impossibly ridiculous premise.
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10-14-2019, 10:11 PM
So as all this applies to gravitational time dilation. Other than 12 men's brief visit to the moon, mankind is earthbound. And very likely to stay that way. Therefore other than God and the beings He created in the eternal sense, all of whom living outside of the effects of time (such as angels and Seraphims and the like); though I may accept the premise which states space-time slows down around the strong gravitational pull of a worm hole for example, I do not see how that particular revelation has any bearing whatever on that which is. A day here on earth remains unaffected by time dilation and we're all stuck right here until that glorious day, albeit soon-coming, when the Lord comes back for His people.
Whatever science says, whether taking things from the perspective of men here on earth, or the perspective of a glacier on Europa; Since the creation, there has elapsed a strictly finite number of days, hours, minutes and seconds. And the nature of all of those units of measure, are very strictly defined by God Himself at the creation. Evolutionists for example, would have us believe that an impossibly long period of time has elapsed since the earth was formed. I do not subscribe to that notion because I realize as do many others, that the idea of earth having an incalculably long history is there only for the sake of providing evolutionists a safe haven for their argument with creationists.
Genesis 1:5 (KJV)
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Now, you got everybody and their brother out there rationalizing just how long, or how much time was used up by the Lord in the 7 days of Creation. Well it doesn't seem all that complex to me. In Scripture each new day starts in the evening and ends after the light of day is spent. In other words dusk instead of dawn. The evening and the morning were the first day. 24 hours. And not one thing has changed about the length of an hour since that first day. The character of God would not allow Him to be tricky or ambiguous in any fact that He may present. When He says THE evening and THE morning were the first day, there are no evolutionary epochs tucked in there somewhere.
Nonetheless as Einstein and Hawking suggest, with the emergence of the universe, time came into being. They claim the big bang, God and His own claim creation. Either way time did not exist prior to the Lord having suspended the heavenly bodies of this universe in the infinitely vast matrix of space.
Therefore I accept without hesitation that time is indeed relative. But only in the sense that time relates only to man and his place in God's timetable of creation. Creation for which God has a firm time limit established BTW, then to be burned up in a fervent heat.
Whatever science says, whether taking things from the perspective of men here on earth, or the perspective of a glacier on Europa; Since the creation, there has elapsed a strictly finite number of days, hours, minutes and seconds. And the nature of all of those units of measure, are very strictly defined by God Himself at the creation. Evolutionists for example, would have us believe that an impossibly long period of time has elapsed since the earth was formed. I do not subscribe to that notion because I realize as do many others, that the idea of earth having an incalculably long history is there only for the sake of providing evolutionists a safe haven for their argument with creationists.
Genesis 1:5 (KJV)
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Now, you got everybody and their brother out there rationalizing just how long, or how much time was used up by the Lord in the 7 days of Creation. Well it doesn't seem all that complex to me. In Scripture each new day starts in the evening and ends after the light of day is spent. In other words dusk instead of dawn. The evening and the morning were the first day. 24 hours. And not one thing has changed about the length of an hour since that first day. The character of God would not allow Him to be tricky or ambiguous in any fact that He may present. When He says THE evening and THE morning were the first day, there are no evolutionary epochs tucked in there somewhere.
Nonetheless as Einstein and Hawking suggest, with the emergence of the universe, time came into being. They claim the big bang, God and His own claim creation. Either way time did not exist prior to the Lord having suspended the heavenly bodies of this universe in the infinitely vast matrix of space.
Therefore I accept without hesitation that time is indeed relative. But only in the sense that time relates only to man and his place in God's timetable of creation. Creation for which God has a firm time limit established BTW, then to be burned up in a fervent heat.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
11-09-2019, 03:58 PM
I recently began entertaining a JW at my house. He originally came and was entirely respectful, knowledgeable about his faith, and humble beyond words. I've long been interested and impressed by other sects of faith -- how they seem to take the mission of evangelizing, spreading the gospel, and generally just taking their faith to the edges of the earth. While I disagree with the JW strongly, I find that alone no reason to ask them to leave when they come. In fact, I make coffee and offer a lunch. I believe that Christ himself would entertain them in that regard.
The encounter that I'm about to describe occurred within the last week. This was the gentleman's third visit with me. While I wasn't dishonest with him regarding my faith, I also didn't make it clear to him that I wasn't a likely conversion candidate. I suspected that doing so would have ended our chat prematurely. In fact, it was my goal to convert HIM. But in between him not converting me, and me trying to convert him -- I offered him my hand in friendship. This seems to have created an actual bond between him and I. It was actually kind of nice. I literally looked forward to his next visit. Any excuse to talk about Christ and what faith has done to and for me -- is a good one.
So allow me to set up our final meeting by telling you about the first two.
He began with the typical approach. JW's usually point to the horrible events going on in the world that almost all people would be saddened by -- the state of politics, war in the middle east, horrible natural disasters, etc. This allows them to create a common ground to stand on with you. They then get a feel for where you stand in regards to christianity in general. Sometimes they'll dig deeper and ask about your exact faith/denomination. Keep in mind, these guys are trained not only in scripture, but communication as well. And trust me, they are extremely talented at their 'job'. A poor unsuspecting, or down on his luck chap would likely find their message worthy of learning about.
It also should be pointed out that if you aren't comfortable with your own faith and understanding, and have a firm grasp on scripture... delving into a deep discussion about doctrine is probably not going to end well for you. Although they are horribly off regarding these matters, they are masters of manipulating scripture in a way that will appear as if they are 'on to something.' I liken it to top tier liberals, converting the uneducated millennial. A polished message, even when wrong, is often all that is needed to get some poor cat to be sympathetic to their cause.
After asking the man questions regarding his topics, he would always point to scripture for the answers. The trinity, heaven and hell, pre/post millennial-ism, baptism, etc. You name it, they know how to answer it. I didn't press this guy too much on our first visit. I was genuinely interested in the conversation, and had spent little time until now, brushing up on the JW doctrine. I'm a bit disappointed that I hadn't done so already, because I firmly believe that a successful debate requires that the winner know and understand the opposing views. Its extremely difficult in the political game to debate a liberal, as a conservative, if I don't actually know what the liberal believes and why. The quickest way to lose a debate with anyone, is to misstate what it is that the other side actually believes. For instance, when someone debates my catholic faith -- and they say that I worship the pope, they lose by forfeit. So before I began to debate the man, I wanted to know what it is that I was up against. I listened closely to every word he said, taking notes, highlighting passages, asking questions. When he left, I truly believe he was hopeful that he may have met the newest member of the "Kingdom." However, also when he left, I felt that I may have met a guy that I'll crush the soul of the next time he visits.
Moving on.
When he was wrapping up, a full hour and 15 minutes later, he asked if I'd be interested in reading some literature between then and the next time he visited. Of course I will! I'll read anything I can get my hands on, and especially regarding matters of faith. Plus, I assumed it would be a cheat sheet for JW ideology. And that it was. A small pocket sized book called, "What does the Bible really teach?"
I read the book that afternoon. Its highly informative, and *appears* accurate. However, being a catholic and christian scholar, I know full well that if you use single verses, you can probably prove just about anything you desire!
I waited for the man to come back, and sure enough he did. We spent another 30 minutes together the following week. Again, I continued to ask questions, but this time they were a bit more pointed. I would sometimes ask him to justify certain ideas, without really hammering the point that I disagreed of course. This forced him to be on a mild defense, and was setting him up for the devestating defeat that surely lay ahead.
This time, he left me with more literature. And I waited for his next visit in the mean time -- which came last week. This would be his last, I'm nearly positive.
The whole JW philosophy centers around the idea that the bible is the only source of truth in this world. If the bible says it, then it must be taken quite literally. If the bible is silent on it, then it mustn't be true or used. They pride themselve in the idea that because they can find a single verse to back up their answer, that they are 100% correct. Again, any biblical scholar would know -- in a book as large as the bible, written by dozens of individuals of the course of a couple thousand years, and with hundreds of translations available -- you can literally prove just about anything you want using a single verse. Especially if you use a purposely maniuplated version of the bible like the New World Translation. (it has dozens of small written changes, that cause huge doctrinal changes!).
For this visit, I had prepared a few simple points to hit him with. He began with polite and humble conversation, and it morphed into a scripture debate. He was putting the finishing touches on making me 'one of his own'. After about 20 minutes, he asked me if i had any more questions for him -- and if not, he'd love to take me to the 'kingdom' and show me the way to a new life! My thinking was, "if they can cook as good as they can express their doctrines", this might not be the worst idea in the world! haha.
So questions.... Yes, I have just a few.
(I'll highlight them, and his response in the next post.)
The encounter that I'm about to describe occurred within the last week. This was the gentleman's third visit with me. While I wasn't dishonest with him regarding my faith, I also didn't make it clear to him that I wasn't a likely conversion candidate. I suspected that doing so would have ended our chat prematurely. In fact, it was my goal to convert HIM. But in between him not converting me, and me trying to convert him -- I offered him my hand in friendship. This seems to have created an actual bond between him and I. It was actually kind of nice. I literally looked forward to his next visit. Any excuse to talk about Christ and what faith has done to and for me -- is a good one.
So allow me to set up our final meeting by telling you about the first two.
He began with the typical approach. JW's usually point to the horrible events going on in the world that almost all people would be saddened by -- the state of politics, war in the middle east, horrible natural disasters, etc. This allows them to create a common ground to stand on with you. They then get a feel for where you stand in regards to christianity in general. Sometimes they'll dig deeper and ask about your exact faith/denomination. Keep in mind, these guys are trained not only in scripture, but communication as well. And trust me, they are extremely talented at their 'job'. A poor unsuspecting, or down on his luck chap would likely find their message worthy of learning about.
It also should be pointed out that if you aren't comfortable with your own faith and understanding, and have a firm grasp on scripture... delving into a deep discussion about doctrine is probably not going to end well for you. Although they are horribly off regarding these matters, they are masters of manipulating scripture in a way that will appear as if they are 'on to something.' I liken it to top tier liberals, converting the uneducated millennial. A polished message, even when wrong, is often all that is needed to get some poor cat to be sympathetic to their cause.
After asking the man questions regarding his topics, he would always point to scripture for the answers. The trinity, heaven and hell, pre/post millennial-ism, baptism, etc. You name it, they know how to answer it. I didn't press this guy too much on our first visit. I was genuinely interested in the conversation, and had spent little time until now, brushing up on the JW doctrine. I'm a bit disappointed that I hadn't done so already, because I firmly believe that a successful debate requires that the winner know and understand the opposing views. Its extremely difficult in the political game to debate a liberal, as a conservative, if I don't actually know what the liberal believes and why. The quickest way to lose a debate with anyone, is to misstate what it is that the other side actually believes. For instance, when someone debates my catholic faith -- and they say that I worship the pope, they lose by forfeit. So before I began to debate the man, I wanted to know what it is that I was up against. I listened closely to every word he said, taking notes, highlighting passages, asking questions. When he left, I truly believe he was hopeful that he may have met the newest member of the "Kingdom." However, also when he left, I felt that I may have met a guy that I'll crush the soul of the next time he visits.
Moving on.
When he was wrapping up, a full hour and 15 minutes later, he asked if I'd be interested in reading some literature between then and the next time he visited. Of course I will! I'll read anything I can get my hands on, and especially regarding matters of faith. Plus, I assumed it would be a cheat sheet for JW ideology. And that it was. A small pocket sized book called, "What does the Bible really teach?"
I read the book that afternoon. Its highly informative, and *appears* accurate. However, being a catholic and christian scholar, I know full well that if you use single verses, you can probably prove just about anything you desire!
I waited for the man to come back, and sure enough he did. We spent another 30 minutes together the following week. Again, I continued to ask questions, but this time they were a bit more pointed. I would sometimes ask him to justify certain ideas, without really hammering the point that I disagreed of course. This forced him to be on a mild defense, and was setting him up for the devestating defeat that surely lay ahead.
This time, he left me with more literature. And I waited for his next visit in the mean time -- which came last week. This would be his last, I'm nearly positive.
The whole JW philosophy centers around the idea that the bible is the only source of truth in this world. If the bible says it, then it must be taken quite literally. If the bible is silent on it, then it mustn't be true or used. They pride themselve in the idea that because they can find a single verse to back up their answer, that they are 100% correct. Again, any biblical scholar would know -- in a book as large as the bible, written by dozens of individuals of the course of a couple thousand years, and with hundreds of translations available -- you can literally prove just about anything you want using a single verse. Especially if you use a purposely maniuplated version of the bible like the New World Translation. (it has dozens of small written changes, that cause huge doctrinal changes!).
For this visit, I had prepared a few simple points to hit him with. He began with polite and humble conversation, and it morphed into a scripture debate. He was putting the finishing touches on making me 'one of his own'. After about 20 minutes, he asked me if i had any more questions for him -- and if not, he'd love to take me to the 'kingdom' and show me the way to a new life! My thinking was, "if they can cook as good as they can express their doctrines", this might not be the worst idea in the world! haha.
So questions.... Yes, I have just a few.
(I'll highlight them, and his response in the next post.)
11-09-2019, 04:32 PM
I'm unsure how that post ended up here in this thread. I meant to start a new thread! So sorry!
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