[Sci-Fi]

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/05/s...tment.html

[plantmanky]

No growth thats funny.

[TheRealThing]

^^ Sci-Fi's a retread troll.

[Sci-Fi]

Plantman, TRT only wishes I was a troll. I don't look to him or Hoot or anybody else's validation for what I post here. Truth is, he has been unable to come up with anything to refute the facts and this is once again an example why him and his crew do what they do best - duck, dive, dip and dodge.

This tax cut was nothing but a big slash for the rich. The highest tax rates were cut and NOTHING was done for the lowest tax rates. Taxes for big corporations were cut. So you have the Wal-Marts, Amazons of the world getting a bigger tax cut while the middle class and poor man once again suffer.

Same thing happened with Bush. We knew this was coming though with a Republican administration.

https://prospect.org/article/two-biggest...s-tax-plan

[Hoot Gibson]

Plantman, TRT only wishes I was a troll. I don't look to him or Hoot or anybody else's validation for what I post here. Truth is, he has been unable to come up with anything to refute the facts and this is once again an example why him and his crew do what they do best - duck, dive, dip and dodge.

This tax cut was nothing but a big slash for the rich. The highest tax rates were cut and NOTHING was done for the lowest tax rates. Taxes for big corporations were cut. So you have the Wal-Marts, Amazons of the world getting a bigger tax cut while the middle class and poor man once again suffer.

Same thing happened with Bush. We knew this was coming though with a Republican administration.

https://prospect.org/article/two-biggest...s-tax-plan

Poor men don't pay any federal income taxes, so raising or lowering tax rates has absolutely zero impact on the poor.

Tariffs are another matter. They are a consumption tax that hits all Americans.

Cutting tax rates for businesses and individuals who actually pay taxes always results in higher GDP growth, all else being equal. The only thing you are right about is that our GDP growth is no where near where it should be. You are wrong about everything else.

Continued huge budget deficits, steep tariffs, and fears among businesses of trade wars have stifled economic growth, imo.

JFK knew, as did Reagan, that lowering tax rates spurs economic growth. The evidence that increasing federal payouts to non-taxpayers (known in your circles as cutting taxes on the poor) has no positive impact on the economy is all around you.

YOU CANNOT CUT TAXES ON THE 50 PERCENT OF AMERICANS WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES. That is an undisputable fact.

[Sci-Fi]

Poor men don't pay any federal income taxes, so raising or lowering tax rates has absolutely zero impact on the poor.

Tariffs are another matter. They are a consumption tax that hits all Americans.

Cutting tax rates for businesses and individuals who actually pay taxes always results in higher GDP growth, all else being equal. The only thing you are right about is that our GDP growth is no where near where it should be. You are wrong about everything else.

Continued huge budget deficits, steep tariffs, and fears among businesses of trade wars have stifled economic growth, imo.

JFK knew, as did Reagan, that lowering tax rates spurs economic growth. The evidence that increasing federal payouts to non-taxpayers (known in your circles as cutting taxes on the poor) has no positive impact on the economy is all around you.

YOU CANNOT CUT TAXES ON THE 50 PERCENT OF AMERICANS WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES. That is an undisputable fact.

Poor men DO pay taxes. Where do you think their money goes when they buy groceries? They pay sales tax. Where do you think their money goes when they buy gasoline? They pay gasoline tax.

You get my drift.

If you make money and your tax rate increases, explain to me, o economic guru, how someone does not pay more tax? If you make money and your ta rate lowers, tell me, o economic guru, how someone does not pay less tax for it? It's proven time after time that giving money to the poor helps them and it helps the economy. Franklin Roosevelt took over in the 1930's and he made sure that people in need had a safety net. What is so bad about that? They use that money for groceries, goods, gasoline, things to help them survive. And Republicans want to take that away.

"YOU CANNOT CUT TAXES ON THE 50 PERCENT OF AMERICANS WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES."

Go all caps. That one doth got me!

[Hoot Gibson]

Poor men DO pay taxes. Where do you think their money goes when they buy groceries? They pay sales tax. Where do you think their money goes when they buy gasoline? They pay gasoline tax.

You get my drift.

If you make money and your tax rate increases, explain to me, o economic guru, how someone does not pay more tax? If you make money and your ta rate lowers, tell me, o economic guru, how someone does not pay less tax for it? It's proven time after time that giving money to the poor helps them and it helps the economy. Franklin Roosevelt took over in the 1930's and he made sure that people in need had a safety net. What is so bad about that? They use that money for groceries, goods, gasoline, things to help them survive. And Republicans want to take that away.

"YOU CANNOT CUT TAXES ON THE 50 PERCENT OF AMERICANS WHO PAY NO FEDERAL INCOME TAXES."

Go all caps. That one doth got me!

What a silly, disingenuous response! I would say that you are struggling to stay on topic by attempting to mix the topic of federal income tax cuts with other types of taxes - but I don't think you're struggling at all. You know that poor people don't pay federal taxes, so you lazily implied that I said that they don't pay any taxes, so we get the dishonest dodge from you.

Question: Has Donald Trump raised the sales tax rate?
Answer: No, he has no authority to raise state sales tax rats and neither does Congress.

Question: Has Donald Trump removed the "safety net" of which you speak, or weakened it in any way?
Answer: No.

Liberals' arguments that lowering tax rates for those who pay taxes and create jobs harm those who pay no taxes and those who want no jobs does not hold water.

Bob, weave, duck, lie, and repeat - the truth packs a punch and it landed cleanly.

[Sci-Fi]

What a silly, disingenuous response! I would say that you are struggling to stay on topic by attempting to mix the topic of federal income tax cuts with other types of taxes - but I don't think you're struggling at all. You know that poor people don't pay federal taxes, so you lazily implied that I said that they don't pay any taxes, so we get the dishonest dodge from you.

Question: Has Donald Trump raised the sales tax rate?
Answer: No, he has no authority to raise state sales tax rats and neither does Congress.

Question: Has Donald Trump removed the "safety net" of which you speak, or weakened it in any way?
Answer: No.

Liberals' arguments that lowering tax rates for those who pay taxes and create jobs harm those who pay no taxes and those who want no jobs does not hold water.

Bob, weave, duck, lie, and repeat - the truth packs a punch and it landed cleanly.

You can’t set parameters in the middle of the game, friendo.

Poor people DO pay taxes - I said it before. Just because they get a refund back on their federal return, for taxes they SHOULDN'T have paid, means that they are going to take that money and put it back into the system. It's just like the pell grant for college. People get the money, they go to school, then they end up paying back more in taxes when they work. It's different when you're talking about the poor but if you're concerned because somebody who might struggle to make a living gets money back that they put BACK into the system - maybe they use that money to repair their house, buy food, gas, repair their car - all kinds of different needs. What do you think they pay on that? TAXES!

I don't know what the national sales tax rate is. Didn't it go up to 7% not too long ago, like the past year or two? I would bet that Donald Trump had something to do with that. Probably the Republican Party with those tax cuts. Probably raised the sales tax to cover the cuts to the rich. He's been in office two years and (other than the rich getting cuts) the middle class and poor are taking the hit. Can you imagine a country taxing the poor? LOL! I can't either but it certainly seems like that's what the goal is right now. Let the rich get by with big cuts and corporations get greedy with the additional money they have in their pockets to give to their CEOs.

So has Donald Trump weakened that safety net?

Answer: Yes.

[Hoot Gibson]

You can’t set parameters in the middle of the game, friendo.

Poor people DO pay taxes - I said it before. Just because they get a refund back on their federal return, for taxes they SHOULDN'T have paid, means that they are going to take that money and put it back into the system. It's just like the pell grant for college. People get the money, they go to school, then they end up paying back more in taxes when they work. It's different when you're talking about the poor but if you're concerned because somebody who might struggle to make a living gets money back that they put BACK into the system - maybe they use that money to repair their house, buy food, gas, repair their car - all kinds of different needs. What do you think they pay on that? TAXES!

I don't know what the national sales tax rate is. Didn't it go up to 7% not too long ago, like the past year or two? I would bet that Donald Trump had something to do with that. Probably the Republican Party with those tax cuts. Probably raised the sales tax to cover the cuts to the rich. He's been in office two years and (other than the rich getting cuts) the middle class and poor are taking the hit. Can you imagine a country taxing the poor? LOL! I can't either but it certainly seems like that's what the goal is right now. Let the rich get by with big cuts and corporations get greedy with the additional money they have in their pockets to give to their CEOs.

So has Donald Trump weakened that safety net?

Answer: Yes.

Poor people don't pay federal income taxes. There is no national sales tax. It really is that simple.

If Trump had eliminated federal income taxes on every federal taxpayer, the poor would have continued to pay federal taxes at the same rate - 0% of their income, and if they had no income, then 0% of $0 income would mean their tax bill would still be $0.

Liberals squeal every time federal taxpayers get to keep more of the money that they earned. They convince poor, under educated voters that if a rich person gets to keep an extra $1,000 of their own money, then Uncle Sam should write them a check for $1,000.

Federal income tax rate cuts should only benefit federal income taxpayers.

[Sci-Fi]

Who you kidding, Echo Chamber? Who you think you’re fooling? Who you lecturing about credibility?

How many times do I have to break this down? Poor person gets refund on tax return, poor person uses refund to buy necessary items. In that process they pay TAXES. Name me ONE state in this country you go to that doesn't charge a sales tax - yes, it's a federal thing. I would bet that a husband/wife making $35,000 combined would probably tell you that they certainly pay taxes. The single person that makes $20,000 per year and struggles will tell you that they are amongst the people in this country that pay taxes.

Honestly Hoot - do you really want to go on the record telling people who struggle that they don't pay any taxes?

Federal tax rate cuts benefit the millionaires and billionaires supported by the Republican Party. That husband/wife with two kids making $35,000 won't benefit nor will the single person making $20,000. They pay taxes just like we do.

And unfortunately, thanks to the new tax laws, they are going to be paying more.

[Hoot Gibson]

Who you kidding, Echo Chamber? Who you think you’re fooling? Who you lecturing about credibility?

How many times do I have to break this down? Poor person gets refund on tax return, poor person uses refund to buy necessary items. In that process they pay TAXES. Name me ONE state in this country you go to that doesn't charge a sales tax - yes, it's a federal thing. I would bet that a husband/wife making $35,000 combined would probably tell you that they certainly pay taxes. The single person that makes $20,000 per year and struggles will tell you that they are amongst the people in this country that pay taxes.

Honestly Hoot - do you really want to go on the record telling people who struggle that they don't pay any taxes?

Federal tax rate cuts benefit the millionaires and billionaires supported by the Republican Party. That husband/wife with two kids making $35,000 won't benefit nor will the single person making $20,000. They pay taxes just like we do.

And unfortunately, thanks to the new tax laws, they are going to be paying more.

Repeated lies don't magically grow into the truths no matter how many times you tell them, RV. When the working poor have taxes withheld from their paychecks, file tax returns, and receive all of the money that was withheld plus a sizable "earned" tax credit, they have not "paid" federal taxes.

By your logic, if little Susie gives the grocery clerk a crisp new $100 bill for a carton of Marlboros and a case of Bud Lite and the clerk gives her $200 in change, she bought $200 worth of groceries and if the customer in front of her gave the clerk a $2 dollar coupon for the beer, then little Susie got short changed by $2.

Modern math by RV - what will you think of next? :biglmao:

[Sci-Fi]

You couldn't resist a swipe at the poor with your comment about beer and cigarettes. Says a lot about you. But what you said is absolutely right. The working poor has taxes withheld and received a portion back which they EARNED - yes, they have paid federal taxes. I'm glad that despite the offensive portion of your post you agreed with that.

Even if Susie gives that $100 bill for what you say she does she's still helping the economy.

[Hoot Gibson]

You couldn't resist a swipe at the poor with your comment about beer and cigarettes. Says a lot about you. But what you said is absolutely right. The working poor has taxes withheld and received a portion back which they EARNED - yes, they have paid federal taxes. I'm glad that despite the offensive portion of your post you agreed with that.

Even if Susie gives that $100 bill for what you say she does she's still helping the economy.

Your reading comprehension is not so good. When Susie gives the clerk $100, she gets $200 in change and then complains because she didn't get credit for a coupon that somebody else had used.

When the federal government gives a person a larger refund than the amount of federal taxes it withheld, that does not make the recipient a federal income taxpayer.

The only reason a truly poor person in this country would be giving a checkout clerk cash would be to pay for items not covered but food assistance programs. Therefore, my example included beer and cigarettes. I could have just as easily used lottery tickets in my example.

Poor people who pay no federal income taxes contribute little to our economy. If that was not true, then Mississippi would be among our wealthiest states and Haiti would be a global economic titan.

It is not possible to cut federal income taxes for those who already pay no federal taxes.

I have no issue with exempting the working poor from federal income taxes, but liberals' cynical efforts to spread hatred of the people and corporations who actually pay the overwhelming majority of federal income taxes disgusts me.

[Sci-Fi]

My reading comprehension is just fine, you're the one that has a hard time comprehending what I'm saying about helping the poor. But having a compassionate hand isn't quite something the Republicans have been known to do all these years.

Getting a larger refund than the amount withheld DOES make them a federal taxpayer. First off, I don't know of anyone who actually gets more back in tax money than actually pays in. That is just a myth made up by the right to try to make it look like the left are a bunch of people who just sit there taking advantage of the government. Now, they might have paid in a little more tax than they actually needed to which will rightly entitle them to receive money back from the government which they already paid in but that does not mean they're getting more back than what they paid.

Corporations are greedy and to think they should have their tax rates lowered is disgusting. Who do you honestly think would benefit more from a tax break? John Doe who works 50 hours a week or the greedy corporation like Wal-Mart?

Thankfully, it won't matter what you think after this next election. I guarantee a blue wave of epic proportions that will place your viewpoint in the rearview mirror of the history books.

[Hoot Gibson]

50 percent of adult, working aged people in this country may no federal income taxes. That is no myth - you are just not very well informed. I mean how could any American believe that there is a federal sales tax of 6 or 7 percent? :biglmao:

[Sci-Fi]

You must be one of these people you talk about that don't work or get out because if you went out you would know that you pay national sales tax on anything you purchase.

[TheRealThing]

^^ There are a lot of people getting back more by way of a federal tax refund than the amount they paid in. I do know somebody who got back far more than they paid in and it's pretty darn commonplace, actually.

[Sci-Fi]

^^ There are a lot of people getting back more by way of a federal tax refund than the amount they paid in. I do know somebody who got back far more than they paid in and it's pretty darn commonplace, actually.

I used to have the same exact thoughts. Then I learned that actually very few people get more back than they pay in taxes and even fewer take advantage of the system unlike the many claims.

[TheRealThing]

I used to have the same exact thoughts. Then I learned that actually very few people get more back than they pay in taxes and even fewer take advantage of the system unlike the many claims.

It's got nothing to do with taking advantage of the system and it's certainly not the case for the very few. All one must do to realize the unmerited windfall, is to file based on one's earnings. The refund is automatic and, courtesy of the already cash strapped middleclass. Like I said. I already had this conversation with a minimum wage earner. Face all aglow with the thrill of getting something for nothing.

To suggest people's sensitivities of conscience would preclude them from accepting Uncle Sam's generosity is pretty funny.

[Sci-Fi]

It's got nothing to do with taking advantage of the system and it's certainly not the case for the very few. All one must do to realize the unmerited windfall, is to file based on one's earnings. The refund is automatic and, courtesy of the already cash strapped middleclass. Like I said. I already had this conversation with a minimum wage earner. Face all aglow with the thrill of getting something for nothing.

To suggest people's sensitivities of conscience would preclude them from accepting Uncle Sam's generosity is pretty funny.

Your sophomoric blown snot is on your hanky, friendo. You’re just comical. I find your lack of generosity to the poor pretty funny.

https://slate.com/business/2015/04/how-w...afood.html

[plantmanky]

When can we get a flat tax?

[TheRealThing]

Your sophomoric blown snot is on your hanky, friendo. You’re just comical. I find your lack of generosity to the poor pretty funny.

https://slate.com/business/2015/04/how-w...afood.html

There is nothing particularly noble or noteworthy about being poor. With the exception of those who had a fortune just handed to them, money is hard earned. But I'll give you another 'funny thing' to think about. With wallets and personal bank accounts securely exempted, liberal tight wads generally like to sit around and make the moral policy that they think others should live by. Which of course means theirs is to tell the vast majority of those bearing the burden of giving all this stuff to the so-called poor, how much and how often they must give. A majority which BTW, have to themselves go out each day and knock themselves out working on an hourly basis in order to have any money in the first place. But I'm sure it's commonplace for the good folks there at the IRS, to endure sifting through a raft of personal checks (above and beyond the limits of the prescribed tax burden) which continually make their way to them with your signature. :please:

Meanwhile, many of the recipients of all this vicariously generated generosity are not about to work by the hour, or any other way. The left don't honor those who give, they honor those who receive. Now that's funny.

[Sci-Fi]

Many of the people that receive welfare do work did you not look at the link?

[TheRealThing]

Many of the people that receive welfare do work did you not look at the link?

And many don't.

[Sci-Fi]

And many don't.

A majority of them do some work two jobs read the link.

[TheRealThing]

A majority of them do some work two jobs read the link.

No, you go ahead. I get enough monkey puke just from the overspray, to suit my needs. The fact remains, millions of them don't work.

[Sci-Fi]

No, you go ahead. I get enough monkey puke just from the overspray, to suit my needs.

No doubt, I would too if I watched Fox News.

[TheRealThing]

No doubt, I would too if I watched Fox News.

Well, I mean, you gotta find somebody to give you your opinion. Right?

[Sci-Fi]

Well, I mean, you gotta find somebody to give you your opinion. Right?

Wow, did you really just say that? You should form your opinion through looking at everything and trusting what you see is making your best judgment. Absolutely unbelievable!

[Hoot Gibson]

]I used to have the same exact thoughts.[/B] Then I learned that actually very few people get more back than they pay in taxes and even fewer take advantage of the system unlike the many claims.

Not all of us gain wisdom with age. Speaking of learning, where did you learn about the large national sales tax that you claim all of us pay. I must confess, I have never paid one cent of a national sales tax. If I am wrong about this issue, then Uncle Sam is due a large amount of back taxes from me and the hundreds of millions of other American citizens who were unaware of that tax. I am shocked that Amazon does not collect a national sales tax on top of the 6 percent state sales tax that I pay. nicker: