[TheRealThing]

The disloyal oppositionist Democrats have been making much ado of late, about the fact that 800,000 government employees missed their first paycheck last Friday. On and on they go about it, trying to drum up ire among the people against Republicans, whom they deceitfully blame for the shutdown.

I realize that owing to overwhelming contempt, many die hard Dems have chosen to accept Schumer, Pelosi and the media's distortions on the matter of illegal immigration. But the fact is they know the crisis at the border is all too real, as the 30 million illegals we have here presently and Central America's invasionary efforts to the south clearly demonstrate. We've had a number of these organized and ongoing efforts, whereby thousands of insurgents have tried to rush our southern border. Not to mention the one which formed in Honduras, and that just today got underway for the US border. Seriously, how stupid have people become? As the first caravan was making it's way up through Central America, every rational thinking person knew; If the caravan was at all successful there would be countless more. But as it turns out, even in the absence of success, the caravans keep on coming anyway. We must have a wall, and to that end Democrats have been stalling, welching and lying since the Reagan Era. Voters should be enraged with Dem's efforts to rob them of their hard fought quality of life. As things stand, though the successful assimilation of the millions of illegal immigrants will be a daunting task, it may still be possible. But as the citizens of Germany can attest, the point comes where one's country begins to lose it's own identity.

So, it is more than high time that a US President stood up for the national security measures for which Congress has appropriated the funding for (repeatedly) and promised the people now for decades. Which brings me to a question, why do we even need any further appropriation when there is no way the already appropriated funding was actually spent on the wall? In any case, dogmatic ideologue Dems will not submit peacefully to border security and thus we have the ongoing shutdown. The hapless victims of which at present, are the afore mentioned 800 thousand going without pay. But in making a point which should be clear to all, not securing the border will cause over 300 million Americans to suffer, and they will continue to suffer unless or until we get a lid on illegal immigration. To say it's a fight worth having (in government) may be the understatement of 2019. So we know the obvious benefits that having a wall offers generally to all Americans, but what about those 800 thousand with whom the left would seem to be so obsessed? In addition to their back pay, how about some sort of incentive bonus for being victimized by Congressional Democrats? I would look into it if I were MR Trump.

[plantmanky]

Laguardia airport in New York shut down today due to lack of air traffic controllers.

Starting to get interesting.

[TheRealThing]

They're reopening the government for three weeks as of today; (that is if the Dems in the Senate can force themselves to cooperate with the hated Republicans)

It really irks the soul to hear Dems get up continually to make the charge that Republicans must work with them. Republicans of course DID, work with them for the past 2 years and as the result we got absolutely nothing done. But seriously, do these yoyo's really think anybody with a glimmer buys what they're selling? Other than Joe Manchin who voted to confirm Kavanaugh, how can Dems make the case that they are willing to work with anyone but themselves? They openly mocked Republicans during the first two years of the Obama tenure, ramming through ObamaCare and laughingly referring to the death of the Republican Party. Meanwhile, even though the fact that Speaker of the House Paul Ryan was in league with the opposition party was no secret, no Dem voted for legislation coming out of the House. Dems vowed not to confirm the President's nominees, and further to stymie his agenda at every opportunity and they've delivered. Still Mitch McConnell doggedly held the interests of America hostage for the sake of the filibuster rule. I guess he just cannot figure out the fact that in their (Dems) use of the rule against Republicans without hesitation, Dems will merrily roll over it once they're actually back in power. So not only are we had while Dems hold the majority, we're also had when they're in the minority. Complex stuff here folks.

The Dems of both houses have done nothing but stall and squall since Obama left office. End of story. When Dems say they want Republicans to work with them, what they really mean is do everything our way or drop dead. Whether Dems are the majority or minority does not matter. They will run everything no matter what because of the filibuster rule. It matters not what comes out of the House because McConnell couldn't pass so much as a cold out of the Senate. Don't ever let a Dem tell you Republicans won't work with them. The real truth is, and their own oppositionist vows support this BTW, they will not work with Republicans.... AT ALL.

So, here's a little heads up to all the enlightened and fair and balanced ones over there at FOX Business and their parent FOX News. BOTH SIDES DO NOT DO IT. And both sides do not share the blame. Wake up!!!

[FoSho]

Your choices in the matter if you're one of the 800,000......

1.) call your congressman and demand a compromise.

2.) find a new job.

3.) STFU

....that is all. Carry on.

[Hoot Gibson]

When Trump won the election, he had a strong hand to play to secure the Mexican border and keep his signature campaign promise, but he chose to pass. Now that Republicans do not control the House, Trump is playing a very weak hand.

Maybe President Trump can declare a national emergency and build the wall with Defense funds but doing so will probably turn into a long court battle. So far, Trump has made all of the concessions in this fight and got nothing from Democrats in return.

[TheRealThing]

When Trump won the election, he had a strong hand to play to secure the Mexican border and keep his signature campaign promise, but he chose to pass. Now that Republicans do not control the House, Trump is playing a very weak hand.

Maybe President Trump can declare a national emergency and build the wall with Defense funds but doing so will probably turn into a long court battle. So far, Trump has made all of the concessions in this fight and got nothing from Democrats in return.

You're right, Trump has offered a lot of concessions by way of overture. And at the same time many in his own party have proceeded to cut the legs out from under him while those concessions yet hung in the air. If you ask me it isn't likely that Dems of and on their own, would've had the stict-to-it-iveness to hold their ground the way they have. I'd say it is far more likely that RINO turncoats put a collaborative bug in Dem ears.

[Hoot Gibson]

You're right, Trump has offered a lot of concessions by way of overture. And at the same time many in his own party have proceeded to cut the legs out from under him while those concessions yet hung in the air. If you ask me it isn't likely that Dems of and on their own, would've had the stict-to-it-iveness to hold their ground the way they have. I'd say it is far more likely that RINO turncoats put a collaborative bug in Dem ears.

Where we will never agree is what Trump's role is in Trump's political defeats. Few if any Republican presidents would prevail in a budget fight when their party held a thin majority in the Senate, with Democrats controlling the House.

Most members of Congress have getting re-elected every two or six years as their number one priority. The Rockefeller wing of the Republican Party, or RINOs as we call them, have controlled some Senate seats for decades. If Trump's job approval poll numbers are high and supporting his legislative initiatives would enhance their prospects of holding on to their seats, then they would be supporting him.

President Trump chose not to spend his political capital on securing funding for a border wall when he could have gotten the most bang for his buck. He has placed himself in a no-win situation by poorly timing his stand for border wall funding.

By waiting until after Republicans lost the House to face off with Democrats over a partial government shutdown, he has made the effort look like an act of desperation, IMO.

Even if Democrats end up agreeing to fund a few miles of a border fence (they will not likely agree to calling it a wall), promising again to build a border wall will not be a winning campaign issue in 2020. That ship has sailed and Trump has lost credibility on the issue.

I supported the government shutdown over border security during Ted Cruz's filibuster and I have supported the current shutdown as well. The cause is just but the timing sucks.

[TheRealThing]

Your choices in the matter if you're one of the 800,000......

1.) call your congressman and demand a compromise.

2.) find a new job.

3.) STFU

....that is all. Carry on.

You forgot the option where those furloughed government workers stand by the only President since Ronald Reagan to protect first and always, the good of actual Americans. And those Americans in turn, could display a little integrity and see if something good comes from their sacrifice. :Thumbs: But no. Irony would have it's way again as the same guys who gave Reagan fits, members of the Air Traffic Controllers Union, take center stage. This time to call off sick in sufficiently large enough numbers to cause flight delays and concerns over general air safety. Chinless RINO's would take flight over much less, and this was more than enough to do the trick. What a bunch of true Americans.

But there is another and much larger group of citizens being effected by the shutdown, and it was those folk for whom that shutdown was wrought in the first place. And that is none other than those 63 plus million folks that voted for MR Trump. The same 63 million to whom Trump promised to build a wall. So, if you're one of those 63 million, not only do Dems condemn you as being unworthy to be called an American, but you are referred to as one of Trump's 10 toothed base. It gets worse however, far worse. As the direct result of all the contempt for the President and his base, Democrats do not feel they are worthy of representation at the federal level, and Republicans of the RINO order agree with them! Six of these fine Senatorial folk voted with the Dems yesterday on their shutdown package. A package WITHOUT WALL FUNDING. One might ask why those 6 Republican Senators would do such a thing? The answer is IMHO a matter of only two possibilities. First, to some being a US Senator is more a matter of personal prestige and status than a responsibility. And like in high school, some people will do almost anything to be liked. Thus the US Senate is the ultimate 'club.' Second, clever Dems realized they'd never be elected in heavily conservative districts, so they ran as a Republican. But they legislate like a Democrat.

Here's the irony in all of this to me. Dems were supposedly cut to the bone over concerns for 800 thousand federal employees whose pay was affected by shutdown. Yes, the self same 800 thousand whom the DEMS caused to do without pay over border wall funding from the get-go. Oh the lament of it all! But do they care about the opioid epidemic, or the millions of foreigners living off American taxpayers, or the murders, rapes, gangs, robberies, dui's, drug crime, human trafficking etc. etc.? Nope. Anybody other than me find it somewhat absurd that missing what will turn out to be one check, is grievous to the point of suicide, while all the other things mentioned are not worthy of even a mention? Ridiculous doesn't come close to describing it. Not only do Dems not care about those 800 thousand, they do not care about the tens of millions of Americans that voted for President Trump.

[TheRealThing]

Where we will never agree is what Trump's role is in Trump's political defeats. Few if any Republican presidents would prevail in a budget fight when their party held a thin majority in the Senate, with Democrats controlling the House.

Most members of Congress have getting re-elected every two or six years as their number one priority. The Rockefeller wing of the Republican Party, or RINOs as we call them, have controlled some Senate seats for decades. If Trump's job approval poll numbers are high and supporting his legislative initiatives would enhance their prospects of holding on to their seats, then they would be supporting him.

President Trump chose not to spend his political capital on securing funding for a border wall when he could have gotten the most bang for his buck. He has placed himself in a no-win situation by poorly timing his stand for border wall funding.

By waiting until after Republicans lost the House to face off with Democrats over a partial government shutdown, he has made the effort look like an act of desperation, IMO.

Even if Democrats end up agreeing to fund a few miles of a border fence (they will not likely agree to calling it a wall), promising again to build a border wall will not be a winning campaign issue in 2020. That ship has sailed and Trump has lost credibility on the issue.

I supported the government shutdown over border security during Ted Cruz's filibuster and I have supported the current shutdown as well. The cause is just but the timing sucks.

Au contraire, I agree completely with this statement. And I know for a fact the Speaker of the House during those prime bang for buck days, did as well. :biggrin:

[Hoot Gibson]

You're right, Trump has offered a lot of concessions by way of overture. And at the same time many in his own party have proceeded to cut the legs out from under him while those concessions yet hung in the air. If you ask me it isn't likely that Dems of and on their own, would've had the stict-to-it-iveness to hold their ground the way they have. I'd say it is far more likely that RINO turncoats put a collaborative bug in Dem ears.

Au contraire, I agree completely with this statement. And I know for a fact the Speaker of the House during those prime bang for buck days, did as well. :biggrin:

Being president is not an easy job but great ones know when to push an advantage. Trump was elected mainly because of his promise to build the wall and to make Mexico pay for it. The best chance that he had of making good on the first half of that promise was taking a firm stand immediately after he assumed office. As for making Mexico pay for a wall, well, that was just an applause line.

Blaming Democrats and RINOs for Trump's failure to make funding for a border wall his top priority is an argument that doesn't hold water. Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell were the Speaker of the House and Senate Majority Leader when Trump ran for the presidency and when he was sworn into office.

RINOs were in the House and Senate before Trump entered the campaign and they have been there for decades. Nothing changed from the time Trump repeatedly promised to build a wall until Republicans lost control of the House in 2018.

Attempts to excuse Trump from trying to get a wall funded in the early days of his presidency are lame. Trump is smart enough to understand that he is not going to secure serious funding for a border wall at this point of his presidency without making major concessions to Democrats that no conservative should be willing to accept.

[FoSho]

The Republicans are always blamed for shutdowns regardless of the truth. The media will make sure of it.

[TheRealThing]

Being president is not an easy job but great ones know when to push an advantage. Trump was elected mainly because of his promise to build the wall and to make Mexico pay for it. The best chance that he had of making good on the first half of that promise was taking a firm stand immediately after he assumed office. As for making Mexico pay for a wall, well, that was just an applause line.

Blaming Democrats and RINOs for Trump's failure to make funding for a border wall his top priority is an argument that doesn't hold water. Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell were the Speaker of the House and Senate Majority Leader when Trump ran for the presidency and when he was sworn into office.

RINOs were in the House and Senate before Trump entered the campaign and they have been there for decades. Nothing changed from the time Trump repeatedly promised to build a wall until Republicans lost control of the House in 2018.

Attempts to excuse Trump from trying to get a wall funded in the early days of his presidency are lame. Trump is smart enough to understand that he is not going to secure serious funding for a border wall at this point of his presidency without making major concessions to Democrats that no conservative should be willing to accept.

All true except for a couple notable distinctions, and BTW, I'm not laying nor have I been laying a smoke barrage for the President. He was a novice, and had no experience in politics. As such I do not believe that he expected the establishment to lay in wait, to teach him not to tread on them as he came into office. That fact is irrefutable. In fact, I just heard Chuck Schumer on air bragging that "maybe now MR Trump has learned his lesson."

His own party was complicit in the resistance, and they have undercut him mercilessly and shamefully. The people spoke and they counted that as nothing. Paul Ryan never took up any bill to fund the wall, only chicken feed to fix existing fencing.

Chapter and verse notwithstanding, I can't cozy up to the business as usual treasons which have become daily fare in DC. The establishment have rejected the people's choice and I don't like it.

[Hoot Gibson]

All true except for a couple notable distinctions, and BTW, I'm not laying nor have I been laying a smoke barrage for the President. He was a novice, and had no experience in politics. As such I do not believe that he expected the establishment to lay in wait, to teach him not to tread on them as he came into office. That fact is irrefutable. In fact, I just heard Chuck Schumer on air bragging that "maybe now MR Trump has learned his lesson."

His own party was complicit in the resistance, and they have undercut him mercilessly and shamefully. The people spoke and they counted that as nothing. Paul Ryan never took up any bill to fund the wall, only chicken feed to fix existing fencing.

Chapter and verse notwithstanding, I can't cozy up to the business as usual treasons which have become daily fare in DC. The establishment have rejected the people's choice and I don't like it.

I am am also a novice with no experience in politics and Trump has received exactly the treatment that I expected he would receive from the media, Democrats, and the Republican Party establishment.

He took office with very little support from the sources that a traditional Republican president would have typically received. He has been received much as a conservative independent candidate elected president would have faced. When one steps into a den of poisonous snakes, why would one expect the snakes not to strike?

That not withstanding, Trump was not drafted into the position of U.S. President - he volunteered and he won an election. He made illegal immigration his number one priority, threatened to veto spending bills sent to his desk by members of his own party and then repeatedly failed to do so. Now, he has retreated from a battle with Democrats and RINOs that should have been fought in 2017.

Maybe Trump will manage to pull a rabbit from his hat, but at this point it appears to me that he is a lame duck, one term president. He is not solely responsible for not securing border funding, but he is solely responsible for choosing not fight this battle when he had an excellent chance of winning.

I have also not written a book on negotiating, but even I know that you should not make concessions in a negotiation without getting something in return. President Trump chose his battleground and proceeded to negotiate from a very weak position with an adversary who has simply said, "No" to all attempts to reach a compromise.

[TheRealThing]

I am am also a novice with no experience in politics and Trump has received exactly the treatment that I expected he would receive from the media, Democrats, and the Republican Party establishment.

He took office with very little support from the sources that a traditional Republican president would have typically received. He has been received much as a conservative independent candidate elected president would have faced. When one steps into a den of poisonous snakes, why would one expect the snakes not to strike?

That not withstanding, Trump was not drafted into the position of U.S. President - he volunteered and he won an election. He made illegal immigration his number one priority, threatened to veto spending bills sent to his desk by members of his own party and then repeatedly failed to do so. Now, he has retreated from a battle with Democrats and RINOs that should have been fought in 2017.

Maybe Trump will manage to pull a rabbit from his hat, but at this point it appears to me that he is a lame duck, one term president. He is not solely responsible for not securing border funding, but he is solely responsible for choosing not fight this battle when he had an excellent chance of winning.

I have also not written a book on negotiating, but even I know that you should not make concessions in a negotiation without getting something in return. President Trump chose his battleground and proceeded to negotiate from a very weak position with an adversary who has simply said, "No" to all attempts to reach a compromise.

That rearward facing 20/20 has the advantage over looking forward, does it not? Makes geniuses out of naysayers every darn day. Those concessions were rejected by the other side. It's not like they're established law. Trump has done wonders with the economy to include raising this country's pension plans from the dead. That alone affects everybody over 50 BTW. Trump recognized the true threat posed by our enemies back when Barack declared (and MANY bought) war as being a thing relegated to the 20th Century. With Trump's election, our military is therefore at least partially restored. And with Russian military hardware and contractors now on the ground in Venezuela, and China in control of the Panama Canal among many things, the restoration of the US Armed Services was also a high priority.

The point would be, there was a tremendous mess left behind by the last administration and the fixes would have been daunting even with the cooperation of his own party. But as you say the wall is very important too, and there's no denying that his failure to build the wall is in plain view. What is also obvious as well as obviously dismissible, is the fact that though the wall remains un-built, that no more excuses those in the government responsible for granting funding from their treachery, than it supports placing the complete blame on Trump. No administration ever faced such a veritable avalanche of lawsuits, and no administration ever faced an organized resistance such as we've seen in this one. Democrats are on TV 24/7 disputing the idea that a wall is even functional, much less necessary. That's not Trump's doing, that is the establishment in full on resistance mode. The same establishment and a media, which refuse to make so much as a mention of the threat posed by the dozens and maybe soon, hundreds of caravans.

If you're right and Trump is a lame duck one termer, at least you'll be able to gargle out a few crows as we're all going down. Unlike some, I don't see this time of US history as just a survivable hiccup. Nor do I see it as a social transformation which has any promise of continuing US sovereignty, much less dominance.

[jetpilot]

As everyone but Never Trumpers knows, Senate "Republicans" are the problem. Many of them are gutless/spineless/useless, some are Never Trumpers, and some are more liberal than conservative.

[Hoot Gibson]

That rearward facing 20/20 has the advantage over looking forward, does it not? Makes geniuses out of naysayers every darn day. Those concessions were rejected by the other side. It's not like they're established law. Trump has done wonders with the economy to include raising this country's pension plans from the dead. That alone affects everybody over 50 BTW. Trump recognized the true threat posed by our enemies back when Barack declared (and MANY bought) war as being a thing relegated to the 20th Century. With Trump's election, our military is therefore at least partially restored. And with Russian military hardware and contractors now on the ground in Venezuela, and China in control of the Panama Canal, the restoration of the US Armed Services was also a high priority.

The point would be, there was a tremendous mess left behind by the last administration and the fixes would have been daunting even with the cooperation of his own party. But as you say the wall is very important too, and there's no denying that his failure to build the wall is in plain view. What is also obvious as well as obviously dismissible, is the fact that though the wall remains un-built, that no more excuses those in the government responsible for granting funding from their treachery, than it supports placing the complete blame on Trump. No administration ever faced such a veritable avalanche of lawsuits, and no administration ever faced an organized resistance such as we've seen in this one. Democrats are on TV 24/7 disputing the idea that a wall is even functional, much less necessary. That's not Trump's doing, that the establishment in full on resistance mode. An establishment and a media which refuse to make so much as a mention of the threat posed by the dozens and maybe soon, hundreds of caravans.

If you're right and Trump is a lame duck one termer, at least you'll be able to gargle out a few crows as we're all going down. Unlike some, I don't see this time of US history as just a survivable hiccup. Nor do I see it as a social transformation which has any promise of continuing US sovereignty, much less dominance.

Well, I think that even a cursory review of my posts during Trump's campaign will show that my perspective is not even close to one of hindsight. I knew for a fact that Trump's past position on illegal immigration did not match his campaign rhetoric. Ted Cruz was the only Republican primary candidate who had a credible record of standing tough on illegal immigration.

Previous presidents have faced much tougher obstacles when they took office than Trump did. Reagan faced double digit inflation and interest rates, and a national unemployment rate of 7 percent. Lincoln took office with the nation on the brink of a bloody civil war. FDR took office during the Great Depression.

Now, with the benefit of hindsight, I would not give high marks to FDR or Lincoln for results, but nobody can argue that any of the presidents mentioned above were not effective leaders who shaped public opinion and turned their agendas into actions despite bitter partisan opposition. (Lincoln ended slavery a little earlier than rapid industrialization would have, but at the cost of more than a half million deaths; and FDR saddled us with a legacy of socialism from which we may never recover.)

It is time to stop making excuses for Trump's blunders and playing make believe by saying he has faced unprecedented challenges. That argument is ludicrous.

Any Republican president would have overseen a much improved economy after freeing the country from the shackles that Obama placed on American businesses. JFK and Reagan proved that following a recipe of cutting taxes and reducing regulations will always stimulate the economy.

Trump deserves credit for the improved economy, but so far, he has failed miserably to effectively address our illegal immigration problems.

As for crowing about Trump's failures, I have supported and will continue to support Trump's policies with which I agree. Illegal immigration is an existential threat to this nation and it is the primary reason that I supported Ted Cruz over Donald Trump in the Republican primary campaign.

If Trump fails, all Americans who value their personal and economic liberty will suffer the consequences. If that happens, then it will be of little consolation to be able to say, "I told you so."

[Hoot Gibson]

As everyone but Never Trumpers knows, Senate "Republicans" are the problem. Many of them are gutless/spineless/useless, some are Never Trumpers, and some are more liberal than conservative.

What you say about the Senate is true and it was true when Trump promised to build a wall and make Mexico pay for it. It was also true when Trump mocked Ted Cruz for not being able to get along with his fellow Senators, Mitch McConnell, and Paul Ryan. Trump screwed up by not battling McConnell and Ryan when he was in a strong negotiating position. His actions since last year's mid-term elections have strengthened the Democrats and RINOs in Congress. It sickens me to see Pelosi and Schumer declaring victory but Trump handed them a gift wrapped win.

[jetpilot]

What you say about the Senate is true and it was true when Trump promised to build a wall and make Mexico pay for it. It was also true when Trump mocked Ted Cruz for not being able to get along with his fellow Senators, Mitch McConnell, and Paul Ryan. Trump screwed up by not battling McConnell and Ryan when he was in a strong negotiating position. His actions since last year's mid-term elections have strengthened the Democrats and RINOs in Congress. It sickens me to see Pelosi and Schumer declaring victory but Trump handed them a gift wrapped win.

They haven't won anything. They have 3 weeks to work it out and Dems get something in return or Trump declares emergency and gets the wall and Dems get nothing. If I'm right I want you to have a MAGA hat avatar Hoot!:biggrin:

[jetpilot]

From Mollie just a few minutes ago

Mollie
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Verified account

@MZHemingway
31m31 minutes ago
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Addendum: This week, NeverTrumpists loudly lobbied Senate Republicans to abandon the fight for border security. And now they are lashing out at people who noticed Republican leaders played a role in the failure to achieve the goal. Which is weird.

[jetpilot]

Ian Fisher
‏

@fisheri
Follow Follow @fisheri
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most interesting to me after big news day, from @mikeallen quoting republican official. "The Senate Rs were about to cut and run. He had no exit ramp."

[TheRealThing]

Well, I think that even a cursory review of my posts during Trump's campaign will show that my perspective is not even close to one of hindsight. I knew for a fact that Trump's past position on illegal immigration did not match his campaign rhetoric. Ted Cruz was the only Republican primary candidate who had a credible record of standing tough on illegal immigration.

Previous presidents have faced much tougher obstacles when they took office than Trump did. Reagan faced double digit inflation and interest rates, and a national unemployment rate of 7 percent. Lincoln took office with the nation on the brink of a bloody civil war. FDR took office during the Great Depression.

Now, with the benefit of hindsight, I would not give high marks to FDR or Lincoln for results, but nobody can argue that any of the presidents mentioned above were not effective leaders who shaped public opinion and turned their agendas into actions despite bitter partisan opposition. (Lincoln ended slavery a little earlier than rapid industrialization would have, but at the cost of more than a half million deaths; and FDR saddled us with a legacy of socialism from which we may never recover.)

It is time to stop making excuses for Trump's blunders and playing make believe by saying he has faced unprecedented challenges. That argument is ludicrous.

Any Republican president would have overseen a much improved economy after freeing the country from the shackles that Obama placed on American businesses. JFK and Reagan proved that following a recipe of cutting taxes and reducing regulations will always stimulate the economy.

Trump deserves credit for the improved economy, but so far, he has failed miserably to effectively address our illegal immigration problems.

As for crowing about Trump's failures, I have supported and will continue to support Trump's policies with which I agree. Illegal immigration is an existential threat to this nation and it is the primary reason that I supported Ted Cruz over Donald Trump in the Republican primary campaign.

If Trump fails, all Americans who value their personal and economic liberty will suffer the consequences. If that happens, then it will be of little consolation to be able to say, "I told you so."

Don't forget Jack Kennedy.

Oh there is no need to review your posts, I remember them. But I'll tell ya one thing, if there were presidents facing much tougher obstacles than Trump's case, you or nobody else can find them among the examples you offered up in support of your statement. Trump has remained unflinching despite the fact that he's gotten nothing but the back of somebody's hand at every turn.

And in just hitting the some of the high spots, He is an innocent man, being hounded by possibly the most powerful prosecutorial force ever assembled; 24/7. They've gone after his family and his associates. NO president has ever had to face down his own DOJ before, and among the more noteworthy and powerful against him are the CIA, the FBI, the NSA, the DNI, the DIA plus what, 10 more US intelligence agencies? A rabid left wing judiciary, several powerful news networks, literally hundreds of hate mongering billionaires and other men and women of means who've set up shop on the internet against him, Hollywood, members of foreign intelligence agencies, both Houses of the US Congress and certain among his own cabinet. And all this certainly not while dealing with trade issues and military issues of the ominous world powers of our age. And in a time when absolutely any information one may seek being hadable in nearly real time.

Trump doesn't need anybody's help against the weasels out there who want to see him fail. Let alone my own. TV didn't even exist for anybody you mentioned except Reagan. His enemies did do their worst with the way they used it at the time, but they were girl scouts compared to today's dog pack.

[Hoot Gibson]

Don't forget Jack Kennedy.

Oh there is no need to review your posts, I remember them. But I'll tell ya one thing, if there were presidents facing much tougher obstacles than Trump's case, you or nobody else can find them among the examples you offered up in support of your statement. Trump has remained unflinching despite the fact that he's gotten nothing but the back of somebody's hand at every turn.

And in just hitting the some of the high spots, He is an innocent man, being hounded by possibly the most powerful prosecutorial force ever assembled; 24/7. They've gone after his family and his associates. NO president has ever had to face down his own DOJ before, and among the more noteworthy and powerful against him are the CIA, the FBI, the NSA, the DNI, the DIA plus what, 10 more US intelligence agencies? A rabid left wing judiciary, several powerful news networks, literally hundreds of hate mongering billionaires and other men and women of means who've set up shop on the internet against him, Hollywood, members of foreign intelligence agencies, both Houses of the US Congress and certain among his own cabinet. And all this certainly not while dealing with trade issues and military issues of the ominous world powers of our age. And in a time when absolutely any information one may seek being hadable in nearly real time.

Trump doesn't need anybody's help against the weasels out there who want to see him fail. Let alone my own. TV didn't even exist for anybody you mentioned except Reagan. His enemies did do their worst with the way they used it at the time, but they were girl scouts compared to today's dog pack.

If by unflinching, you mean repeatedly threatening to veto spending bills that did not contain funding for a border wall and then signing spending bills that included no such funding, then you are correct, Trump has been unflinching. Presidents are in charge of and responsible for the Executive branch of our government. President Trump is the ultimate executive in our government. Your posts since he assumed that position would have us believe that he is a powerless victim of circumstance, when nothing could be further from the truth.



As for TV not existing in JFK's day, that would be news to Richard Nixon, whose loss to Kennedy in the 1960 election historians have attributed in part to his refusal to wear makeup in front of cameras during a televised, sweaty debate performance.


Besides, Americans did receive news from a biased media in the days before TV existed. AK 47s did not exist in Lincoln's day either, but people have been dying from gunshot wounds since before this nation was founded.

[Hoot Gibson]

Ian Fisher
‏

@fisheri
Follow Follow @fisheri
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most interesting to me after big news day, from @mikeallen quoting republican official. "The Senate Rs were about to cut and run. He had no exit ramp."

So, where's the big news? Loss of paychecks by federal employees and contractors has always resulted in political pressure for those who are blamed for government shutdowns. If that pressure came as a surprise to Trump, then he needs to either fire his staff or start taking their advice more seriously.

The "deal" to which Trump agreed was nothing but a feeble attempt at saving face. Pelosi and Schumer gave up nothing and the partial government shutdown weakened Trump and the Republicans who had supported him. It's hard to see the events as anything but a political disaster.

Eventually, Congress would have passed a spending bill by a veto proof margin. That is why politicians should fight tough battles from a position of strength. It is why armies have fought to control high ground for thousands of years.

Statesmanship among our elected federal representatives has gone missing, but it has been missing for a very long time. IMO, people in DC understand that interest on the national debt is going to destroy life as we know it in this nation and politicians have simply given up trying to do anything to avoid our fate.

Democrats and RINOs are acting particularly short-sighted but the time will come when no politician will be electable who promises to exercise any fiscal restraint. Trump has done absolutely nothing to address the debt bomb but I think our fate was probably sealed while Democrats controlled the House of Representatives for four decades. They spent their way into power and spent to maintain their power and Republicans followed suit.

When elected officials began buying votes and growing wealthy while drawing federal checks and passing the bill for their fiscal malfeasance to taxpayers who had not even been born yet, our lot was cast.

[jetpilot]

So, where's the big news? Loss of paychecks by federal employees and contractors has always resulted in political pressure for those who are blamed for government shutdowns. If that pressure came as a surprise to Trump, then he needs to either fire his staff or start taking their advice more seriously.

The "deal" to which Trump agreed was nothing but a feeble attempt at saving face. Pelosi and Schumer gave up nothing and the partial government shutdown weakened Trump and the Republicans who had supported him. It's hard to see the events as anything but a political disaster.

Eventually, Congress would have passed a spending bill by a veto proof margin. That is why politicians should fight tough battles from a position of strength. It is why armies have fought to control high ground for thousands of years.

Statesmanship among our elected federal representatives has gone missing, but it has been missing for a very long time. IMO, people in DC understand that interest on the national debt is going to destroy life as we know it in this nation and politicians have simply given up trying to do anything to avoid our fate.

Democrats and RINOs are acting particularly short-sighted but the time will come when no politician will be electable who promises to exercise any fiscal restraint. Trump has done absolutely nothing to address the debt bomb but I think our fate was probably sealed while Democrats controlled the House of Representatives for four decades. They spent their way into power and spent to maintain their power and Republicans followed suit.

When elected officials began buying votes and growing wealthy while drawing federal checks and passing the bill for their fiscal malfeasance to taxpayers who had not even been born yet, our lot was cast.

That time is here and now! Let's see what Trump does on the wall. Dems and half the Repubs don't want it. He is our only chance - that's a fact.

[Hoot Gibson]

That time is here and now! Let's see what Trump does on the wall. Dems and half the Repubs don't want it. He is our only chance - that's a fact.

I think our last chance probably passed before Trump took office, but I hope that I am wrong. Cruz demonstrated that your statement about Repubs was already true during the Obama administration and everybody knows that most Democrat office holders in DC want open borders.

Our Maduro has probably already been born or already walked across the border. Or maybe the fact that 74 percent of Democrats would consider voting for Alexandria Ocasio Cortez for president is a sign that our Maduro is a 29 year old moron who already walks among us.

Regardless of what people believe about evolution, there is no evidence that new generations of human beings are getting any smarter. In other species, the strongest, best, and brightest are able to breed and reproduce. Nature does have a way of thinning herds of the weak and the stupid. With us, not so much.

[TheRealThing]

If by unflinching, you mean repeatedly threatening to veto spending bills that did not contain funding for a border wall and then signing spending bills that included no such funding, then you are correct, Trump has been unflinching. Presidents are in charge of and responsible for the Executive branch of our government. President Trump is the ultimate executive in our government. Your posts since he assumed that position would have us believe that he is a powerless victim of circumstance, when nothing could be further from the truth.

As for TV not existing in JFK's day, that would be news to Richard Nixon, whose loss to Kennedy in the 1960 election historians have attributed in part to his refusal to wear makeup in front of cameras during a televised, sweaty debate performance.


Besides, Americans did receive news from a biased media in the days before TV existed. AK 47s did not exist in Lincoln's day either, but people have been dying from gunshot wounds since before this nation was founded.

I challenge you to get another poster on here to agree with you that I have ever portrayed the President as any kind of victim, whether that be powerless, hapless, helpless or otherwise. Being in the slim minority regarding pending political issues, is no rare place to find one's self when he has right on his side. And frankly, 63 million others would, agree with that.

He came to Washington to do a job because he was elected by normal work-a-day folks who'd had enough of the lies. His election was no fluke, and it was certainly not attributable to some grand Russian plot to deceive the people. As the mountains of revealed evidence clearly show; 'The resistance,' as it is referred to by his political enemies, is a united front which I believe includes the Deepstate, and is not limited to but certainly includes all the afore mentioned entities.

As to the rest of whatever you were saying. I said, from the list of Presidents YOU put up, TV only existed for Ronald Reagan. You don't get to co-op the one I mentioned in order to make your point. I will readily venture my agreement with you on Lincoln and FDR. Although I believe Trump is very highly and selflessly motivated, those two men likely carried a heavier burden than does Trump. Presently at least. I said 'presently,' because I am convinced beyond question that war is coming. And with it the burden that all wartime Presidents must shoulder. Who really knows how much longer things will seem normal in this land? No President has ever faced existential opposition from those within state and federal government anything close to what Trump has.

But from among the other things said resistance is for example, well funded, (your and my tax dollars hard at work.) Additionally, resistance adherents are almost impervious to being fired or being prosecuted. Nor are they it would seem, subject to any sort of oversight from the Congress of the United States and therefore, the very people by whom they are employed. Taxpayers. And as I have pointed out, unlike in Lincoln, FDR and Reagan's times, (who were limited to snail mail, dial up phones, cables and written notes) thanks to texts and email, said resistance of today can communicate amongst themselves front to back in nearly real time. And that is important for the 24/7 news loop if the resistance is to maintain orderly talking points, and any appearance of credibility before the American people. No president other than MR Trump has ever faced anything like it.

The people did receive news via electronic media as you say, but not in Lincoln's case. And FDR was limited mostly to radio, almost NOBODY had a TV in 1941. By 1939 homes fortunate enough to have a radio had become commonplace, but certainly not universal. Heck, electricity wasn't even common place until the 1930's. Even then I do not agree with you that the media were united in their bias until at least the days of the Bill Clinton administration. Before those days the media tried to lay suggestion between the lines and used inflection and tone in an attempt to convey things subliminally. Since then the media have progressively gotten more brazen, today achieving rabid nirvana. But in returning to your comment regarding your campaign posts about DJT. You slammed him then, and you're slamming him now. Other than Trump, you can't name one other person in government (before or during his campaign) not afraid to publicly take on political correctness, immigration reality, trade/intellectual property theft, NATO, NAFTA, and the economic "new normal."

[Hoot Gibson]

I challenge you to get another poster on here to agree with you that I have ever portrayed the President as any kind of victim, whether that be powerless, hapless, helpless or otherwise. Being in the slim minority regarding pending political issues, is no rare place to find one's self when he has right on his side. And frankly, 63 million others would, agree with that.

He came to Washington to do a job because he was elected by normal work-a-day folks who'd had enough of the lies. His election was no fluke, and it was certainly not attributable to some grand Russian plot to deceive the people. As the mountains of revealed evidence clearly show; 'The resistance,' as it is referred to by his political enemies, is a united front which I believe includes the Deepstate, and is not limited to but certainly includes all the afore mentioned entities.

As to the rest of whatever you were saying. I said, from the list of Presidents YOU put up, TV only existed for Ronald Reagan. You don't get to co-op the one I mentioned in order to make your point. I will readily venture my agreement with you on Lincoln and FDR. Although I believe Trump is very highly and selflessly motivated, those two men likely carried a heavier burden than does Trump. Presently at least. I said 'presently,' because I am convinced beyond question that war is coming. And with it the burden that all wartime Presidents must shoulder. Who really knows how much longer things will seem normal in this land? No President has ever faced existential opposition from those within state and federal government anything close to what Trump has.

But from among the other things said resistance is for example, well funded, (your and my tax dollars hard at work.) Additionally, resistance adherents are almost impervious to being fired or being prosecuted. Nor are they it would seem, subject to any sort of oversight from the Congress of the United States and therefore, the very people by whom they are employed. Taxpayers. And as I have pointed out, unlike in Lincoln, FDR and Reagan's times, (who were limited to snail mail, dial up phones, cables and written notes) thanks to texts and email, said resistance of today can communicate amongst themselves front to back in nearly real time. And that is important for the 24/7 news loop if the resistance is to maintain orderly talking points, and any appearance of credibility before the American people. No president other than MR Trump has ever faced anything like it.

The people did receive news via electronic media as you say, but not in Lincoln's case. And FDR was limited mostly to radio, almost NOBODY had a TV in 1941. By 1939 homes fortunate enough to have a radio had become commonplace, but certainly not universal. Heck, electricity wasn't even common place until the 1930's. Even then I do not agree with you that the media were united in their bias until at least the days of the Bill Clinton administration. Before those days the media tried to lay suggestion between the lines and used inflection and tone in an attempt to convey things subliminally. Since then the media have progressively gotten more brazen, today achieving rabid nirvana. But in returning to your comment regarding your campaign posts about DJT. You slammed him then, and you're slamming him now. Other than Trump, you can't name one other person in government (before or during his campaign) not afraid to publicly take on political correctness, immigration reality, trade/intellectual property theft, NATO, NAFTA, and the economic "new normal."

Your reaction to criticism of Trump has consisted of one lame excuse after another. And, if you review my post, you will find that I did mention JFK and that I was not referring to John F. Kerry, who fortunately never served as POTUS. I will give you the benefit of doubt and assume that you did not read my post carefully before accusing me of injecting Kennedy into the discussion to win a debate point.

I will concede that the media has become more blatantly biased against Republicans in recent years, but in the days of three national TV and radio networks, the liberal bias was there and the conservative media to refute their propaganda was almost non-existent.

Cronkite, Huntley, Brinkley, Reasoner, Smith - where were the conservative anchors during the Vietnam War? Liberal media helped the North Vietnamese and their Viet Cong allies win the war with their very biased and very selective reporting. Liberals have controlled the media for a very long time. Donald Trump is not the first Republican who has faced a very hostile media but he has been very ineffective in dealing with them.

[jetpilot]

Your reaction to criticism of Trump has consisted of one lame excuse after another. And, if you review my post, you will find that I did mention JFK and that I was not referring to John F. Kerry, who fortunately never served as POTUS. I will give you the benefit of doubt and assume that you did not read my post carefully before accusing me of injecting Kennedy into the discussion to win a debate point.

I will concede that the media has become more blatantly biased against Republicans in recent years, but in the days of three national TV and radio networks, the liberal bias was there and the conservative media to refute their propaganda was almost non-existent.

Cronkite, Huntley, Brinkley, Reasoner, Smith - where were the conservative anchors during the Vietnam War? Liberal media helped the North Vietnamese and their Viet Cong allies win the war with their very biased and very selective reporting. Liberals have controlled the media for a very long time. Donald Trump is not the first Republican who has faced a very hostile media but he has been very ineffective in dealing with them.

Please tell me you're not comparing Cronkite and a couple others to this lying liberal media sh!tstorm of MSNBC, CNN, NBC, and thousands of other "journalists" on social media.

[Hoot Gibson]

Please tell me you're not comparing Cronkite and a couple others to this lying liberal media sh!tstorm of MSNBC, CNN, NBC, and thousands of other "journalists" on social media.

I certainly am. The U.S. never lost a battle in Vietnam. The liberal media, led by Cronkite, and liberal vermin on college campuses undermined support for the war effort. Cronkite and company were much smoother propagandists than the sources you cited, but I don't see how anybody could argue, armed with hindsight, that the liberals of the 60s were any less effective than their counterparts of today.

IMO, persuasive propaganda does not consist of preaching to the choir the way that CNN, MSNBC, NBC, ABC, CBS, the New York Times, and many other liberal media outlets do. Effective propaganda is seen by its target audience as fair reporting to change hearts and minds. People in my parents' generation trusted news anchors and most of them had no idea what a flaming liberal Cronkite was.

The Vietnam War might have turned out much differently had the media reported objectively. At the very least, Nixon and Kissinger would have negotiated a more honorable end to the war and our POWs and troops would have been welcomed home and not spat upon and jeered as baby killers.

[nky]

Ironic that the shutdown costed more than the proposed money for the wall