[rookie57]

Coach Haywood prefers playing in 3A. Always has. Despite winning the 2A titles in 2003 and 2004....would have preferred playing in 3A. However....points made incthisxthread are very valid. The economy has been decimated.....and honestly, Pikeville’s transformation is the main driving force county wide ....other than the school system and county related jobs. At some point, IMO Belfry will have no choice but to play 2A The male enrollment will not support 3A numbers in a few years. They’re barely holding on now. IMO, Pikeville stands in the best position for continued growth. Whether or not that growth pushes PHS to into a larger class remains to be seen. I do think that Belfry’s numbers may swell in some years due to cross over enrollment....but not consistently. The area is suffering a slow, harsh death. Sad but true

So sad, I hate to see these small, rural towns dying

[WILDCAT NATION]

Belfry’s decline is slower than some others of similar size. i.e. others schools will drop below them to 2A and keep them 3A for this alignment and the next.

[pjdoug]

Belfry to 2A when they realize they can’t win 3A

nicker: tare:

[bball_fan]

Johnson Central “was” 5A before some shifting and will remain 4A for next four years. I’m sure someone can explain how it all came about.

Anyway. I think JCHS will remain 4A for long time. That area isn’t coal dependent and population hasn’t changed much for decades. But I do think all other schools will be 2A at best in the future.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you. My son was enrolled in a Johnson Central feeder and we moved out of Eastern Kentucky to Berea due to lack of jobs. There is nothing in the 15th or 14th regions for long term employment besides coal. The city of Pikeville is the only place in true Eastern Kentucky that is trying to get away from coal dependency.

[bball_fan]

Yeah, I'm just asking questions and curious what fuels the economy. I know Pike County is the largest county, and the drop in population is probably from lower production of coal.

I'll try to answer as many of your questions as I can at once. When I say true mountain schools, I'm speaking of the 14th and 15th region. Corbin and Williamsburg are right off interstate 75, because of that fact alone they will always have something to at least stabilize an economy. There are very few, in any, factory jobs in the boundary between Louisa, West Liberty, Jackson, Hyden and Harlan. Pikeville is trying to get a true industrial park started, but that is one area in a much larger one. The railroads live and die with coal, and with coal slowly dying and the price of living sky rocketing, they are dying too. I grew up next to a rail track on the Floyd/Pike County line. There use to be at least seven or eight trains a day come through loaded full with a hundred cars. Now you are lucky to see two a day. Look up the most poor counties in the United States, over fifty percent of the top twenty are in Eastern Kentucky. The state is doing more to try and open up the area, the Mountain Parkway expansion but unless they choose to run Interstate 26 (fact check me on the Interstate number) through Pikeville like was planned years ago, it will never truly be opened. West Virginia pulled out of competing US 645 (Fact check route number again please) which would have ran from US 23 between Louisa and Paintsville, through Inez and straight into Charleston, West Virginia.


I know people on here say one thing, but even Johnson Central is suffering big time from the population loss. A good number of their student body, and Paintsville too, comes from neighboring counties. Big companies like Wayne Supply and Worldwide have made major cut backs and shut multiple locations down due to the number of coal jobs disappearing. I've got family I am begging to move out of Eastern Kentucky even because how hard it is to survive. One of my best friends works for Rising Sun construction, he has not worked a local job in over three years. I believe right now he is just outside of Washington D.C. No matter what anyone tells you on here, outside of Pikeville, Eastern Kentucky is dying fast and it is mainly because local counties will not develop beyond coal, the high rising drug rate or corruption within the county offices.

[bball_fan]

When Virginia annexes West Virginia and builds a wall.

To be honest, there already is a giant wall around Williamson.

[Explorer]

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you. My son was enrolled in a Johnson Central feeder and we moved out of Eastern Kentucky to Berea due to lack of jobs. There is nothing in the 15th or 14th regions for long term employment besides coal. The city of Pikeville is the only place in true Eastern Kentucky that is trying to get away from coal dependency.

Johnson County is just different.
Here is demographic data for Johnson County.

1980 24,432 39.3%
1990 23,248 −4.8%
2000 23,445 0.8%
2010 23,356 −0.4%

I have no idea what makes this county different than those surrounding it. Proximity to Ashland/Huntington? I dunno. But you can live in that county and work from Ashland to Pikeville essentially. Only job I even knew people moved there for was the prison and that can’t be very many.

Maybe there is better housing in Johnson County than neighboring counties. Certainly better water than neighboring Martin. Either way the population has virtually went unchanged for 40 years. Current population projections show 22,978. Pikeville has the university and hositpal for jobs. I’d expect Pikeville Ind. to jump to 2a in 2023 alignment.

[pjdoug]

I'll try to answer as many of your questions as I can at once. When I say true mountain schools, I'm speaking of the 14th and 15th region. Corbin and Williamsburg are right off interstate 75, because of that fact alone they will always have something to at least stabilize an economy. There are very few, in any, factory jobs in the boundary between Louisa, West Liberty, Jackson, Hyden and Harlan. Pikeville is trying to get a true industrial park started, but that is one area in a much larger one. The railroads live and die with coal, and with coal slowly dying and the price of living sky rocketing, they are dying too. I grew up next to a rail track on the Floyd/Pike County line. There use to be at least seven or eight trains a day come through loaded full with a hundred cars. Now you are lucky to see two a day. Look up the most poor counties in the United States, over fifty percent of the top twenty are in Eastern Kentucky. The state is doing more to try and open up the area, the Mountain Parkway expansion but unless they choose to run Interstate 26 (fact check me on the Interstate number) through Pikeville like was planned years ago, it will never truly be opened. West Virginia pulled out of competing US 645 (Fact check route number again please) which would have ran from US 23 between Louisa and Paintsville, through Inez and straight into Charleston, West Virginia.


I know people on here say one thing, but even Johnson Central is suffering big time from the population loss. A good number of their student body, and Paintsville too, comes from neighboring counties. Big companies like Wayne Supply and Worldwide have made major cut backs and shut multiple locations down due to the number of coal jobs disappearing. I've got family I am begging to move out of Eastern Kentucky even because how hard it is to survive. One of my best friends works for Rising Sun construction, he has not worked a local job in over three years. I believe right now he is just outside of Washington D.C. No matter what anyone tells you on here, outside of Pikeville, Eastern Kentucky is dying fast and it is mainly because local counties will not develop beyond coal, the high rising drug rate or corruption within the county offices.

it is sad for sure. I-75 may run through Whitley County and that may modernize it a little but this is still true mountains and most of the communities are former coal camps. if you went through the sad little town of Jellico today you would never guess that it was a booming little town a century ago.

[BigBrownsfans]

as long as the WV border is open belfry will be fine

[OutlawJoseyWales]

as long as the WV border is open belfry will be fine

Since class placement is based on male enrollment....I wouldn't be so sure. Yes, students from Mingo do obviously cross the river and attend Belfry. However....in recent years, there have been more females than males in that cross over composition. Belfry welcomes the additional students from both an academic and athletic standpoint. Definitely more crossover students who DO NOT play football/other sports than those who do. A lot more.

However, the population in Mingo is dwindling at a faster rate than Pike Co. Unfortunately, it's a losing proposition in the long run.

The success the program has enjoyed over the past 20 years has been remarkable, and a wonderful journey. However, without a sustainable economy, I can't see any way Belfry will be able to maintain the heights they've reached. I hope Belfry fans truly embrace this coming season.....

[#55PirateFan]

Since class placement is based on male enrollment....I wouldn't be so sure. Yes, students from Mingo do obviously cross the river and attend Belfry. However....in recent years, there have been more females than males in that cross over composition. Belfry welcomes the additional students from both an academic and athletic standpoint. Definitely more crossover students who DO NOT play football/other sports than those who do. A lot more.

However, the population in Mingo is dwindling at a faster rate than Pike Co. Unfortunately, it's a losing proposition in the long run.

The success the program has enjoyed over the past 20 years has been remarkable, and a wonderful journey. However, without a sustainable economy, I can't see any way Belfry will be able to maintain the heights they've reached. I hope Belfry fans truly embrace this coming season.....

Agreed my friend. I believe this year may be the last you see Belfry as a power in 3A. Sad to say but after next season Pirate football will more than likely fall on hard times and likely struggle just to win the district. But, I do believe the Belfry Pirates will win the 3A championship next year. With the 2020 class we have we should be the favorite. But after that, doesn't look good at all on Pond Creek.

[CBDV]

Man, a lot of Debbie Downer in here.

Belfry has struggled a little at the middle school level the last 2 years, but the 4/5/6th grade classes are as good as they have ever been recently athletically.

[Real Badman]

Too many socioeconomic problems for the Pirates to compete always...South Williamson is different compared to Virgie or Elkhorn City or Phelps or Feds Creek or Marrowbone. South Williamson has SOME industry, the rest of Pike County has NOTHING. You can verify this with the employment/socioeconomic numbers of the region. There just isn't anything.

Pikeville will be fine. They have the industry and development.

History tells us when the job market closes or dries up, the program will collapse in some way. Check Elkhorn City via Coal Boom. They were winning games 8-10 a year for while. Even a state championship and another state appearance in the 60's/70's, the last 10 years of the school, the population of Elkhorn City and the school enrollment dwindled, so did their wins. I think 20 in 10 years.

It can be a vicious cycle, but what goes up, must come down. Fact

[OutlawJoseyWales]

Agreed my friend. I believe this year may be the last you see Belfry as a power in 3A. Sad to say but after next season Pirate football will more than likely fall on hard times and likely struggle just to win the district. But, I do believe the Belfry Pirates will win the 3A championship next year. With the 2020 class we have we should be the favorite. But after that, doesn't look good at all on Pond Creek.

IMO, Belfry shifts to 2A a the next alignment in 2023. If they do that, then I think Belfry can remain a constant threat...albeit maybe not a legitimate favorite year in year out.

[OutlawJoseyWales]

Man, a lot of Debbie Downer in here.

Belfry has struggled a little at the middle school level the last 2 years, but the 4/5/6th grade classes are as good as they have ever been recently athletically.

Not denying that. We definitely have some talent in the elementary grades. However.....were talking 3-7 years before those kids have a legitimate chance at making an impact. Who will the coach be at that time? Will the parents be able to stay in the area? IMO, those are just too many unknowns to be positive about at this juncture. If the economy would stabilize and begin to turn positively....then I'm right there. But at this point....that's a difficult bridge to sell.

[OutlawJoseyWales]

Too many socioeconomic problems for the Pirates to compete always...South Williamson is different compared to Virgie or Elkhorn City or Phelps or Feds Creek or Marrowbone. South Williamson has SOME industry, the rest of Pike County has NOTHING. You can verify this with the employment/socioeconomic numbers of the region. There just isn't anything.

Pikeville will be fine. They have the industry and development.

History tells us when the job market closes or dries up, the program will collapse in some way. Check Elkhorn City via Coal Boom. They were winning games 8-10 a year for while. Even a state championship and another state appearance in the 60's/70's, the last 10 years of the school, the population of Elkhorn City and the school enrollment dwindled, so did their wins. I think 20 in 10 years.

It can be a vicious cycle, but what goes up, must come down. Fact

No doubt the Belfry/South Williamson area has been more immune to economic turns than other outlying parts of the county. However....the success of Williamson WV, as a coal and railroad market, played a huge role in the stabilization of the economy in our little part of the county. Even after the "boom" years were gone....there were still a good number of personally owned businesses that continued to thrive and provided stability to the economy. Unfortunately, those are gone. Honestly, in the 60"s-thru the early 90's.....Belfry area folks still did much of their business with Williamson at a much greater pace than with Pikeville. however, once
Williamson died...and 119 was fully completed, that ended. Now, virtually all of the area goes either to Pikeville or at least thru it.

I agree with you regarding Pikeville. I think they're well positioned to be the "villain" for years to come. Belfry has always been the villain for as long as I've been around. Well before any consolidation....every school in Pike Co hated Belfry. Because we were the largest I'm sure. That's destined to change.

Pikeville has the resources. What real money left in the county is firmly planted in Pikeville. I hope I'm wrong. I really hope that when a couple of industrial opportunities are completed and begin hiring folks that the obscene land values in Pikeville will push those people to the outlying parts of the county such as Belfry, Sidney, Canada, South Williamson. But one can only hope at this point

[jetpilot]

I work over in Williamson some and things seem to be on the upswing. Seemed like only tumbleweeds blowing down the street a couple years ago, now the town seems pretty busy. Williamson has a good mayor (I believe he lives on the KY side but not positive) who is really trying to help. A group just bought the old Williamson High School and is renovating it, Campbellsville University is coming to Williamson I am told, and the hospital is in the early stages of expanding/thriving again. Some good people are doing some good things there, and I think Williamson is in the early stages of a kind of rebirth. We will have to see how it goes but I do know they are trying hard there.

[PHSFAN]

Either the next realignment or the one after that I suspect Belfry will move down to 2A and Pikeville up to 2A and that would be pretty fun if they meet in the playoffs someday.

In 5-10 years it is possible that a 2A district of Belfry, East Ridge, Pike Central, Pikeville and Shelby Valley could exist and personally I think that would be awesome.

[EKUAlum05]

Either the next realignment or the one after that I suspect Belfry will move down to 2A and Pikeville up to 2A and that would be pretty fun if they meet in the playoffs someday.

In 5-10 years it is possible that a 2A district of Belfry, East Ridge, Pike Central, Pikeville and Shelby Valley could exist and personally I think that would be awesome.

4 years from now it wouldn't surprise me to see Pikeville taking back over as the dominant team in Pike County.

I like Belfry's chances next year, but after that I could see Pikeville having a stretch where they will win the majority of the games for about a five year window at least.

[#55PirateFan]

4 years from now it wouldn't surprise me to see Pikeville taking back over as the dominant team in Pike County.

I like Belfry's chances next year, but after that I could see Pikeville having a stretch where they will win the majority of the games for about a five year window at least.

I agree 100% EKUAlum. Its Belfry's to lose next year, IMO. I think we'll be better next year than we were this year. But after that the Pirates are going to fall on hard times for the distant future. And I also see Belfry dropping down and Pikeville moving up. And unless I am badly mistaken, Pikeville will be Top Dog in Pike County if it happens, just like you said. Pikeville, KY is growing and Belfry/South Williamson, KY and surrounding areas are dying a slow death. Really sad being a witness to it.

[jetpilot]

I don't see Pikeville going to 2A. Pretty sure the school has max students it can hold right now. So unless a new school is built (doubtful) I see Pikeville always being 1A. Could be wrong but that's my take.

[PHS DYNASTY]

I agree 100% EKUAlum. Its Belfry's to lose next year, IMO. I think we'll be better next year than we were this year. But after that the Pirates are going to fall on hard times for the distant future. And I also see Belfry dropping down and Pikeville moving up. And unless I am badly mistaken, Pikeville will be Top Dog in Pike County if it happens, just like you said. Pikeville, KY is growing and Belfry/South Williamson, KY and surrounding areas are dying a slow death. Really sad being a witness to it.

55, what is the enrollment at BHS now in terms of the cutoff level between 2a, and 3 a? Has there been a noticeable drop in enrollment ? Your right. It's tough to see the population of a traditional power school like Belfry drop, jmo.

[bucslover68]

In the data used in the last 3 classifications the average numbers for Belfry for males has been in 2011-2014 353, then it actually spiked up in 2015-2018 to 380 then back down to 332 for the 2019-2022 classification. Belfry is currently 7th smallest in the latest 3A classification.

[EastKyPride]

Any truth to a couple younger classman transferring from Belfry? Hearing a lineman and possibly a back?

[OutlawJoseyWales]

Any truth to a couple younger classman transferring from Belfry? Hearing a lineman and possibly a back?

I’ve neither heard nor able to verify that rumor. Not sure why any lineman would want to leave...... Plenty of opportunities exist this coming season. The backfield is crowded....but Haywood gives reps to backs that show promise, work hard and hang on to the football. Not saying the isn’t anything to the rumor....however I haven’t found anyone to verify it.

What MAY be interesting is whether or not we see a couple of kids transfer from Phelps. They have a couple of kids that would either start or play big big minutes at several schools within driving distance. Now that CDJ has left for Bourbon....it may be something to watch. Not necessarily transferring to Belfry.....but potentially to PCC or Pikeville

[EastKyPride]

That may be what they are talking about and got it backwards. Because the line is wide open next year and honestly think they have the pieces to fill the spots. Hate it for the Phelps program but completely understand for making the move.

[TheHotSnakes]

There are so many factors that are well beyond local control that impact so many places, especially in EKY. I mean, state and national elections can ultimately have a bearing on what happens at Belfry. Economics not just in that community but in surrounding communities has an impact.

I won't be entirely surprised if Belfry drops down to 2A within the next 8-10 years.

[PHS DYNASTY]

In the data used in the last 3 classifications the average numbers for Belfry for males has been in 2011-2014 353, then it actually spiked up in 2015-2018 to 380 then back down to 332 for the 2019-2022 classification. Belfry is currently 7th smallest in the latest 3A classification.

Thanks bucslover68. That actually shows more of an average enrollment than I thought. Hopefully the economy will pick up in that area for the future. I can remember when Belfry was a big 3-A school back during the 80's, Of course coal was moving much better in those days.