[armyfootball#1]

Don't get me wrong. If a kid truly needs to be held back for grades or maturity reasons I understand. But it seems that those SAME SCHOOLS are getting around the rules and still holding back kids (especially for football I.E. Johnson Central and Belfry and I'm sure others but those I know in eastern Ky.) So what do we have. Well we have kids that turn 15 in 8th grade facing 13 year olds and 19 year olds facing 17 and 18 year olds as seniors in high school. Holding back not only one or two players.....but convincing parents to hold back 9 and 10 players in 5th grade to beat the rules of KHSAA. Big difference folks when you have this taking place. Like I said.....if it was one or two that may not be that bad. But I am hearing of almost complete classes being held back. This really needs to be addressed in a serious manner. Now in some cases you have adults playing kids and not being transparent about what is truly going on. SHAME ON THEM!!!!!!

[armyfootball#1]

Curious to hear EDUCATED and open minded responses. Without letting their personal teams success or failures to slide your judgment.

[Iam4thecats]

Its 2018 they track these kids ages. It is technically possible for some 19 year olds to be eligible with the right birthdate. If the other hold-backs are done in the window allowed by the khsaa then so be it. I held my daughter back and i'd recommend every family in america have their kid graduate as late as legally possible. Maturity matters.

[bball_fan]

KHSAA rule has always been if you are 18 on August 1st of your senior year, you are eligible. People make this same complaint every year but answer me one thing, what does Belfry and Johnson Central have that most schools don’t? Two of the most successful coaches in the state. Quit blaming failures your school has on something that is not the issue. The two schools you mentioned have a great program from youth ages and up. These programs are winners because of coaching, player commitment and school backing. Blaming hold backs is an entitle excuse to bandage the real issue, your program is not on their level. Look at Beechwood, Corbin, Trinity, Mayfield, Bowling Green, Boyle, Danville, Pikeville... I can go on, but those teams have been in state championships left and right for thirty years! That’s not because of hold backs, that’s because they develop talent and maintain a stable program. Just stop, your embarrassing yourself.

[armyfootball#1]

See this is what I was afraid of. I just wanted open dialogue that addresses the issue of culture of several kids from each class year in and out being talked into holding back kids. I understand one or two here and there. But folks I have talked to a lot of people that tell me about underlying cultures of programs that try their best to get parents to hold kids back for the sake of developing a more mature older kid as possible. You can't tell me it doesn't make a difference. I know because I have talked to a lot of kids that are now adults and have since graduated from college that have said that their parents were approached by some coaches about holding back SEVERAL OF EACH CLASS year in and out. I understand the rules that KHSAA has in place and have tried to implement However coaches and parents just adjust and hold back at 5th grade now. And the truth is parents get out of child care by entering their child early then holding them back in grade school. I get it. But what I am talking about is SOME programs have great coaches YES. But some are very guilty of coercing parents into holding back kids so that they essentially have a 13 year senior come their last year in high school. I get it.......if it works why not do it. All I'm saying is that not all schools allow coaches to try to coerce parents to do this when.....lets be honest. It's for helping to ultimately WIN on the field of play. Lastly.....not the one or two......BUT THE CULTURE OF HOLDING BACK IN SOME COMMUINITIES. It happens don't try to deny it. Thank you for letting me get that off my chest. LOL

[armyfootball#1]

When I line up 9 of my 11 starting line up that are 19 years of age that should be college freshman against your 15 to 17 year olds. Well I'm just saying........IT IS A DIFFERENCE.

[Spud6]

It's always going to be the argument of "well you have the same opportunity to do so"

Holding kids back to build a program will never go away

[armyfootball#1]

And for the record the two programs I spoke of are great programs with great coaches. And it's not necessarily the high school coaches I am speaking of that try to convince kids to stay back so that they will be more successful. I have been told by several ex players and parents alike that it does go on and starts in the youth league. And it is done as groups. All I'm saying is....if you hold back that's your decision. But you should lose a year of eligibility to make it fair. It's beyond one or two. My question is those programs that have several year in and out.

[armyfootball#1]

It's always going to be the argument of "well you have the same opportunity to do so"

Holding kids back to build a program will never go away

Yeah your probably right. I agree unfortunately it will go on.

[Spud6]

And for the record the two programs I spoke of are great programs with great coaches. And it's not necessarily the high school coaches I am speaking of that try to convince kids to stay back so that they will be more successful. I have been told by several ex players and parents alike that it does go on and starts in the youth league. And it is done as groups. All I'm saying is....if you hold back that's your decision. But you should lose a year of eligibility to make it fair. It's beyond one or two. My question is those programs that have several year in and out.

It happens in elementary school but a lot of these coaches in high school have a lot of say so and do a lot of convincing. But yes, I agree with the lose a year of eligibility if deemed that you were held back for sports only. But there is a fine line there were it's hard to determine if a kid was held back for this or that. Because they are required to go to a shrink and they have to sign off saying that they are not ready to move forward in their school. So I really don't see how this could be changed.

[insideinfo]

If these kids are eligible by KHSAA rules, I’m not sure what the problem is.

[Single Wing 77]

When I line up 9 of my 11 starting line up that are 19 years of age that should be college freshman against your 15 to 17 year olds. Well I'm just saying........IT IS A DIFFERENCE.

You have the right to hold your kid back for whatever reason you want. What aggravates me is when people want to dictate what other do with their kids. Quite frankly it’s none of your business what someone else does with their kids as long as no rules are broken. This whole thread has a soccer mom feel to it. Man up, and let your son play the game. Or go play soccer with all the other socialists.

[Spud6]

If these kids are eligible by KHSAA rules, I’m not sure what the problem is.

The problem is it's way too easy to get held back.

[nekysportsfan]

No doubt that the team with 19 year olds is going to dominate the team with 17 year olds 90% of the time. This makes all the difference in the world in high school football. Like the other posters said, though, it’s not illegal so the schools that make a concerted effort to have a bunch of old football players are going to win.

[insideinfo]

The problem is it's way too easy to get held back.

That’s not a problem.

[armyfootball#1]

No doubt that the team with 19 year olds is going to dominate the team with 17 year olds 90% of the time. This makes all the difference in the world in high school football. Like the other posters said, though, it’s not illegal so the schools that make a concerted effort to have a bunch of old football players are going to win.

Thank you.......and for the poster that said it had a soccer mom feel to it. Lol Well I assure you that you couldn't be further from the truth. 30 year Army combat Vet. here. Played for Army back several years ago. Lol Just wanting some dialogue here is all. Thank you for your responses. Have been involved in football for several years.....just don't like how some things have went in regards to playing footsy with the rules is all. Again......NEVER once wanted to give the impression that someone couldn't hold back their kid. Just have questions about the culture of some schools holding back GROUPS of kids is all. Times have change I guess. Just didn't seem to happen that often when I was growing up I guess. My opinion is a kid held back should lose a year of eligibility in high school. Just don't remember the vast number of kids being held back when I was growing up. Thanks again for the educated responses.

[nekysportsfan]

I think there will be an occasional player with such great athleticism that they will stand out no matter their age. Those are the types of players who are true D1 athletes. But for the vast majority of players who fall in the middle of the road athletically, though, being older is such a huge advantage because of strength, speed, confidence, and aggressiveness. Give me a team of 19 year old guys with August birthdays anytime.

[E's Army]

i like holding most boys back. The extra year does wonders for their maturity. They are not only better athletes but better students. I think it takes boys that extra year. They are much more ready to get away from mommie and go off to college. Don't believe that you get the same return on girls. They seem to mature earlier.

[HCS]

The rule is the same for everyone. Some hold them back in middle school. Others start school late to make sure their child gets the most out of his high school career.
It's no one else's business when a child starts school or how long it takes them if they meet the KHSAA guidelines.
You can turn 15 on Aug. 1 and be eligible for middle school sports - you have to have a cutoff somewhere and that one seems as fair a date as any.
The better question should be what do you think the cutoff date should be. It serves no logical purpose to question parents who follow the established rules.

[FoSho]

Kids being held back should be the sole discretion of the parents. It's really none of anyone else's business.

[Spud6]

That’s not a problem.

That's the only problem I could think of. Holding your child back is between the family and what they think is best for their child whether it be for athletics or academics or even maturity reasoning. If you want your child to be held back, it's easy to get in front of a shrink and act immature at the questions and conversations you have with them.

Me personally, I have no problem with hold backs because who am I to decide was is best for that particular child without even knowing them.

[smoke1015]

Don't get me wrong. If a kid truly needs to be held back for grades or maturity reasons I understand. But it seems that those SAME SCHOOLS are getting around the rules and still holding back kids (especially for football I.E. Johnson Central and Belfry and I'm sure others but those I know in eastern Ky.) So what do we have. Well we have kids that turn 15 in 8th grade facing 13 year olds and 19 year olds facing 17 and 18 year olds as seniors in high school. Holding back not only one or two players.....but convincing parents to hold back 9 and 10 players in 5th grade to beat the rules of KHSAA. Big difference folks when you have this taking place. Like I said.....if it was one or two that may not be that bad. But I am hearing of almost complete classes being held back. This really needs to be addressed in a serious manner. Now in some cases you have adults playing kids and not being transparent about what is truly going on. SHAME ON THEM!!!!!!

Somerset, and especially some of the Pulaski schools, middle schools, coach Foley, etc.. were MASTERS of this. Lol. I see my own kid has caught up with the hold backs by the time he was a junior so I had less of a problem with it. Some of our best players actually gradated at 17. It was weird, seems like most of our best players were younger, the ones that went on to play college ball.

[CarzyRock]

Is this a problem in the state?

I don't think anyone was held back at Trinity. If someone struggled with classes they just got moved down a level into a more suitable course. I went from Advanced Math down to Honors Math in Sophomore year for example.

[Franchise]

Thank you.......and for the poster that said it had a soccer mom feel to it. Lol Well I assure you that you couldn't be further from the truth. 30 year Army combat Vet. here. Played for Army back several years ago. Lol Just wanting some dialogue here is all. Thank you for your responses. Have been involved in football for several years.....just don't like how some things have went in regards to playing footsy with the rules is all. Again......NEVER once wanted to give the impression that someone couldn't hold back their kid. Just have questions about the culture of some schools holding back GROUPS of kids is all. Times have change I guess. Just didn't seem to happen that often when I was growing up I guess. My opinion is a kid held back should lose a year of eligibility in high school. Just don't remember the vast number of kids being held back when I was growing up. Thanks again for the educated responses.

The reason you never saw it was that moms at that time were mostly homemakers. They could keep the child home as long as they wanted before starting school. I started my boys early to avoid outrageous daycare costs. If holdbacks were to be outlawed, people would once again just start them late.

[Single Wing 77]

Thank you.......and for the poster that said it had a soccer mom feel to it. Lol Well I assure you that you couldn't be further from the truth. 30 year Army combat Vet. here. Played for Army back several years ago. Lol Just wanting some dialogue here is all. Thank you for your responses. Have been involved in football for several years.....just don't like how some things have went in regards to playing footsy with the rules is all. Again......NEVER once wanted to give the impression that someone couldn't hold back their kid. Just have questions about the culture of some schools holding back GROUPS of kids is all. Times have change I guess. Just didn't seem to happen that often when I was growing up I guess. My opinion is a kid held back should lose a year of eligibility in high school. Just don't remember the vast number of kids being held back when I was growing up. Thanks again for the educated responses.

First of all I’d like to say thank you for your service. That being said it is kind of ridiculous to say that a school is holding back a group of kids. There is no meeting between a school and a group of parents to discuss holding kids back. Each kid that is held back is a decision made by their parents. They’re may be a culture of holding back in some places, but it’s not because of the school. It’s because the parents have created the culture.

[Woodsman]

You have the right to hold your kid back for whatever reason you want. What aggravates me is when people want to dictate what other do with their kids. Quite frankly it’s none of your business what someone else does with their kids as long as no rules are broken. This whole thread has a soccer mom feel to it. Man up, and let your son play the game. Or go play soccer with all the other socialists.

Exactly. If your school needs to hold back kids to be successful....you are doing it wrong and that’s sad. Furthermore, if your school can’t compete with a school that holds back players, you too are obviously doing it wrong and that even more sad. You aren’t losing because some kids are held back. Get a better coach and more talent. Pretty simple. Does not matter in the slightest if kids are held back.

[kai]

i like holding most boys back. The extra year does wonders for their maturity. They are not only better athletes but better students. I think it takes boys that extra year. They are much more ready to get away from mommie and go off to college. Don't believe that you get the same return on girls. They seem to mature earlier.

I agree. I have been trying for years to convince local parents that holding their boys back is beneficial both in athletics and the classroom. I have witnessed this and I know teachers that say they can definitely tell a difference. I would encourage anyone to consider holding their child back a year, I don't see any downside for the child.

[Jaguarhoundbird]

So, if every parent just started their kids "late", but was still completely eligible, what exactly would you complain about then? 99.9% of the time, this is a parent that realizes they screwed up not starting their kid late or holding them back.

[Explorer]

This is a parental issue. If they feel the child needs to be held back, by all means hold the kid back. If you are holding your kid back for sports, I question what kind of parent you are. You can justify it however you want and it’s easy to say maturity is the reason. Because most 13 year old boys are immature. I do not want my son graduating high school at 19. I also don’t want my son to graduate at 17. And his birthday falls where either of those are a possibility (19 being hold back or start late).

However, this is up to the parent of that kid.

[Frank Martin]

So, if every parent just started their kids "late", but was still completely eligible, what exactly would you complain about then? 99.9% of the time, this is a parent that realizes they screwed up not starting their kid late or holding them back.

I would suggest you are wrong. That being said, 100% of the time those defending it are the ones trying to justify holding their kids back. They use the maturity card quite often when in reality it's about wanting your son or daughter to have a better chance at athletics. Nothing at all wrong with that in my opinion. It's within the rules so go for it. Just call it what it is and stop trying to sell it under the guise of maturity, academics, social, etc.. Also, admit it is and advantageous and stop saying he's just sophomore, etc. without adding in that he's actually as old as most juniors when someone asks about your kid. All that being said, it's a parents/families choice.