[TheRealThing]

February 14th, 2018--- another high school shooting where 17 were murdered and at least 14 badly injured.

What's going on? As I have said on here a number of times, The Founders recognized that only a nation comprised of people with a strong sense of all things moral, could self governance actually have a chance to work. But why is it that where once in my lifetime, we never saw things like this. And why at some point, did we start to see such horrific acts of violence begin to be perpetrated against innocents?

On the grounds of the misconstrued concept of the separation of Church and State, many of this nation's youth have been insulated from a consciousness of the existence of God, or His sovereignty. Into the vacuum created by God's conspicuous absence from the school room, something else came in. At first we saw the naiveté of the 50's, and the influence with which Hollywood began to hold sway over the minds of this nation's citizenry. At the time, seemingly innocuous enough. Then we got the sexual revolution of the 60's, the explosive drug use and civil upheaval that went with it. And things have only gotten worse from there. But remember when Moses went up Mount Sinai to receive the 10 Commandments of the Lord? In his absence the people fashioned a golden calf to worship and took off their clothes! Wanton sex, which I believe largely defines this land, is a signpost sin.

Some may remember the first video game, it's name? Pong. Two bars representing paddles and one little innocent blip representing a Ping-Pong ball. From Pong we got Pac-Man and Super Mario. And from ensuing generations of tech, we got Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, and Grand Theft Auto. All of which embodying graphics showing blood and corruption to incredible extremes. While in the movies we went from Rio Bravo to the unbelievable sex and gore of today's movie scene. Young minds which in many cases, though they have never known the nurturing family/Church environment which was so prevalent in post WW2 US society, are nonetheless exposed 24/7 to gore and violence of the hellishly grotesque imaginations of those who produce it. All of which are being further exacerbated by the various venues of the social networks and the internet, on which immorality leaps forward exponentially and daily, if not hourly.

But to hear Varney on FOX News tell it owing to free speech, there is nothing that could be done to close or limit the growing portal existing between the forces of Hell and the inhabitants of earth. Let me put it this way. The guy who came up with Grand Theft Auto under the provisions of free speech, definitely has the right 'himself,' to say the things he does. But to sell it in the form of a game, I find more than questionable. In fact, this is an example of a form of commerce that cries out for oversight. IMHO, he should never be allowed to package such a mind altering cancer in the form of a game, that along with the other such games, have combined to help cause or reinforce actions like high school shootings.

Here in this land, we citizens who once proudly stood under the grace of God, have become slaves to the word twisters. Remember what God said to Adam? Genesis 2:16-17 (KJV)
16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
God had given Adam only one rule, don't eat of this one tree.

Then Satan the word twister comes along and what did he say to Eve? Genesis 3:4-5 (KJV)
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Satan caused Eve to break the one rule, and she did eat.

The language of the Framers as seen in the Constitutional documents is clear enough. But if Satan could successfully twist God's own Word, then you can bet he can twist the words of the Founders. And that's what the word twisters did with the concept of the separation of Church and State. Which was meant by the Founders to protect the Church from the prying pervasiveness of government. By our own stupidity and short sightedness, we have allowed ourselves at the all important government level, to become regulated, and thereby separated, from the guidance of Holy God. And by our own laws we have subjected ourselves to darkness. By that I mean we separate the minds of our children from the Godly tenets upon which this nation is founded. It is more often the case that students are counseled, or belittled by teachers, for suggesting a Godly adherence in the affairs of men. I know because my own children endured such assaults in school. No wonder we grope in darkness in the form of confusion and endless debate. Jesus said "I am the Light of the World" We turned that light off in every government building, including schools. And there wasn't a single legislator to come forward to point out the real cause of this land's unacceptable slide into madness. That is until President Trump called out the problem in his speech today.

Satan, if you will recall, was cast out of heaven along with the one third of all God's angels who chose to follow him. And there are more than enough of them under Satan's command to get a certain job done. Commanders, captains, lieutenants, sergeants and foot soldiers enough to whisper 'suggestions' into the ears of not only this world's youth, but the adults as well. And thanks to the going US lunacy, the cherry on top of which being the separation of Church and State, we have basically surrendered our youth to the ultimate enemy. Satan. See it's illegal to speak of God in school, it's perfectly fine to speak of anything else though. Including offering courses in Islam and the occult.

[TheHotSnakes]

Illegal?

[TheRealThing]

^^ I'm sorry, did I stutter?

[TheHotSnakes]

^^ I'm sorry, did I stutter?

I was just hoping for something to show it was illegal.

I'll wait.

[mr.fundamental]

Was there not a mass shooting at a church within the last two years?

[mr.fundamental]

People are evil, greedy, self serving, these ideas get reinforced everywhere. Americans are always violent people. We have been at war for over 14 years and counting, before that, Desert Storm, Vietnam, Korea, WWII, WWI, Civil War, 1812, Revolutionary War, French and Indian War,(this is a stretch,but some of our relatives probably fought in this). Also in the mid 1990s Kosovo(not a war but definitely a military action), and in the 1800's American Mexican War, manifest destiny(removing Native Americans, alot of our relatives could have been Native Americans).

The point to all of that, Americans love a good fight, we live by the sword and we die by the sword.

To see this crazy adult makes my blood boil. (I refuse to call him a child, 19 years old is not a child), I also think the death penalty is to easy for him.

[TheRealThing]

I was just hoping for something to show it was illegal.

I'll wait.

I would venture that if you have thus far failed to discern current events as they may apply to the removal of God from the classroom and government, you could conceivably wait until the end of time before it all dawns for you.

But ever heard of the ACLU? Ever heard about them suing at the local, state and federal levels to get everything from nativity scenes removed from public squares to postings of the 10 Commandments ordered removed from the hallways of this nation's schools? If there weren't legal guidelines, that is, established precedents of case law recognized by the courts to regulate such matters, how could law suits be brought forward in the first place? Not all that complex a topic if you open your eyes just a bit.

Now, instead of snarky one word slurs, how's about you give us your ideas, as to why speaking of God in Schools and Government is not illegal?

[TheRealThing]

Was there not a mass shooting at a church within the last two years?

Yeah a lost person, not a congregant, with an ax to grind came in off the street with a gun and started mowing innocent worshippers down.

[TheHotSnakes]

I'm never sure if you're a troll or an idiot.

[TheRealThing]

I'm never sure if you're a troll or an idiot.

Oh I'm sure there are a great many things that elude your grasp. :biggrin:

[TheHotSnakes]

Just find me something, anything, of where it's "illegal." That's all I'm asking for.

[TheRealThing]

Okay, in offering nothing to the conversation now except 4 superficial whiffs, you've had the only sidestep I am prepared to grant.

As I understand it there is only one Supreme Court ruling on the matter of religious speech in schools. Stone v. Graham, 449 U.S. 39 (1980). The court ruled displays of the 10 Commandments in school buildings to be unconstitutional based on Abington Sch. Dist. v. Schempp, 374 U.S. 203 (1963). The Court offered minimal analysis and simply labeled the Ten Commandments "an undeniably sacred text," comparing the posting of the Ten Commandments to the daily Bible reading, which was held unconstitutional in that case. [ACLJ]

The only acceptable scenario therefore, in which one may discuss tenets of the Christian faith would be in the context of a broad secular setting. Such as a course on religion in general, thusly giving (I guess), equal time to the other religions such as Buddhism or Islam. B. LYNCH v. DONNELLY And ALLEGHENY COUNTY v. ACLU

Further, the 10 Commandments nor any Scriptural reference may be displayed on municipal grounds or on public school grounds as a stand alone display. Books v. City of Elkhart, 532 U.S. 1058 (2001). Remember Judge Roy Moore ® AL, and his inexcusable jurisdictional misdeed? He a defied a FEDERAL COURT ORDER as follows;

ARTICLE EXCERPT---
"Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore defies a federal court order to remove a monument to the Ten Commandments from the state judicial building. The U.S. Supreme Court had rejected Moore's request to block a district court's order to remove the granite monument. The district court ruled the display violated constitutional provisions for the separation of church and state."
https://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor...Id=1403961

In short thanks in no small part to the ACLU, there are more cases on the books which clearly regulate how federally affiliated concerns, (that would be any and all public venues including schools), can or cannot speak on matters of The Lord and His Word than Carter has little liver pills.

At any rate, I'm not about to let you and your not-so-secret ghost writer, (who BTW likes to lay back and PM and prompt his lackeys), derail this thread. As I indicated in the thread starter, the people of America are paying the price for abdicating their God given responsibilities to stand for Him, and our Godly heritage. Had we done so we would have honored the very Creator from Whom we are granted the specific rights enumerated in the Constitution. In having not so done, we have brought shame upon ourselves of which the growing lawlessness stands testament. I don't expect you to agree with that, but then that my friend is your own problem.

[TheHotSnakes]

Also, I'm still waiting on something to show that's illegal.

I'm really just not sure if you understand what you're actually talking about.

[TheRealThing]

Also, I'm still waiting on something to show that's illegal.

I'm really just not sure if you understand what you're actually talking about.

LOL, whereas on the other hand I am sure, that you don't really understand what either of us is actually talking about.

[TheHotSnakes]

So, you can't give me any evidence of it being illegal?

Can we just shut this thread down now?

[TheRealThing]

Finally got that PM huh?

I provided case law: one from the Supreme Court, 3 from State or District courts, plus one of particular notoriety of which everybody should be familiar in the case of Judge Roy Moore, who was ordered by the District Court to remove a long standing monument dedicated to the 10 Commandments.

Teachers have been fired, students have been harangued, coaches fired for praying with their teams, the list is absolutely endless. But let's get real with regard to your supposed interest in all this. No mountain of evidence would ever lighten the burden of your contempt, nor that of the puppet master currently pulling your strings. Now I am done with making you seem much more intelligent than you are.

[Granny Bear]

harangued:

to lecture at length in an aggressive and critical manner


Debate all you want, but don't take this to a personal insult level.

[The Urban Sombrero]

What is illegal is to, say, during general announcements in the morning in a school, offer a prayer. The concept is akin to “captive audience,” which violates freedom of conscience and the wall of separation. On the other hand, the Fellowship of Christian Athletes hold meetings in tons of schools, Bible reading, praying, testimonies. The difference? Students go to FCA meetings by choice, and no student is compelled to go or Bible read or listen to prayers. As a zealot and Dean of demagoguery, TRT only plays on one side of the net. It makes for strange reasoning logical only within his own framework, which is to say he reasons circularly, a clearly fallacious approach.

[Granny Bear]

As a zealot and Dean of demagoguery, TRT only plays on one side of the net. It makes for strange reasoning logical only within his own framework, which is to say he reasons circularly, a clearly fallacious approach.

Please stay on topic. No personal remarks.

[TheRealThing]

What is illegal is to, say, during general announcements in the morning in a school, offer a prayer. The concept is akin to “captive audience,” which violates freedom of conscience and the wall of separation. On the other hand, the Fellowship of Christian Athletes hold meetings in tons of schools, Bible reading, praying, testimonies. The difference? Students go to FCA meetings by choice, and no student is compelled to go or Bible read or listen to prayers. As a zealot and Dean of demagoguery, TRT only plays on one side of the net. It makes for strange reasoning logical only within his own framework, which is to say he reasons circularly, a clearly fallacious approach.

Ah, the man behind the scenes oozes to the forefront. As to this ^^, we disagree.

[The Urban Sombrero]

Ah, the man behind the scenes oozes to the forefront. As to this ^^, we disagree.

Ah, the scene behind remains behind: When have you ever been prevented from private worship? I can follow the directive of Christ in prayer and worship any time and any where, as he desires the heart for his altar. With the worship of God at the center of recognized social and cultural life came the Dark Ages, where more innocent blood was shed in the name of orthodoxy than in all school shootings a thousand times over. Speaking of ooze, eh, in honor of GB, we’ll just let the ooze flow up the hill.

[TheRealThing]

What is illegal is to, say, during general announcements in the morning in a school, offer a prayer. The concept is akin to “captive audience,” which violates freedom of conscience and the wall of separation. On the other hand, the Fellowship of Christian Athletes hold meetings in tons of schools, Bible reading, praying, testimonies. The difference? Students go to FCA meetings by choice, and no student is compelled to go or Bible read or listen to prayers. As a zealot and Dean of demagoguery, TRT only plays on one side of the net. It makes for strange reasoning logical only within his own framework, which is to say he reasons circularly, a clearly fallacious approach.

Ah, the scene behind remains behind: When have you ever been prevented from private worship? I can follow the directive of Christ in prayer and worship any time and any where, as he desires the heart for his altar. With the worship of God at the center of recognized social and cultural life came the Dark Ages, where more innocent blood was shed in the name of orthodoxy than in all school shootings a thousand times over. Speaking of ooze, eh, in honor of GB, we’ll just let the ooze flow up the hill.

Define irony; A debater who is a professing Christian, becomes agitated when another debater says the impetus for all the comparative madness and unrest of recent generations, is a general lack of Godly guidance. In this case particularly in the government controlled atmosphere of the public school system.