[The Urban Sombrero]

From the Emma Lazarus poem, "The New Colossus," which is quoted on the Statue of Liberty:

"Give me your tired, your poor,/ Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,/The wretched refuse of your teeming shore./Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,/I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

This poem was written in 1883, three years before the Statue of Liberty was completed in New York harbor. "The New Colossus" is about Lady Liberty. Twenty years later, the poem was inscribed on a bronze plaque and mounted inside the pedestal of the statue, where it continues to be displayed today. At one point, speaking of the torch, we read, "From her beacon-hand/Glows world-wide welcome..."

When, and if, this nation, from fear and suspicion and scapegoating, changes that "welcome" to "get out and stay out," we should at least have the self-awareness to take the Statue down, lest we fool ourselves with the idea that a principle honored in the past merits present commendation. The Mexicans and Hondurans and Guatamalans who pick our fruits and vegetables, lay our concrete block, work in our slaughterhouses, are, almost without exception, poor and tired. I am not here advocating for a mindless, foolish immigration policy, given the state of the world. However, I am stating that Lady Liberty is a symbol of something in the American spirit, something valuable, something egalitarian, and we ought to give great pause before trading that spirit in for xenophobia and a fool's nationalism.

[TheRealThing]

From the Emma Lazarus poem, "The New Colossus," which is quoted on the Statue of Liberty:

"Give me your tired, your poor,/ Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,/The wretched refuse of your teeming shore./Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,/I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

This poem was written in 1883, three years before the Statue of Liberty was completed in New York harbor. "The New Colossus" is about Lady Liberty. Twenty years later, the poem was inscribed on a bronze plaque and mounted inside the pedestal of the statue, where it continues to be displayed today. At one point, speaking of the torch, we read, "From her beacon-hand/Glows world-wide welcome..."

When, and if, this nation, from fear and suspicion and scapegoating, changes that "welcome" to "get out and stay out," we should at least have the self-awareness to take the Statue down, lest we fool ourselves with the idea that a principle honored in the past merits present commendation. The Mexicans and Hondurans and Guatamalans who pick our fruits and vegetables, lay our concrete block, work in our slaughterhouses, are, almost without exception, poor and tired. I am not here advocating for a mindless, foolish immigration policy, given the state of the world. However, I am stating that Lady Liberty is a symbol of something in the American spirit, something valuable, something egalitarian, and we ought to give great pause before trading that spirit in for xenophobia and a fool's nationalism.

Coulda fooled me.

[The Urban Sombrero]

Coulda fooled me.

Alright.

[SKINNYPIG]

A nice poem it may be, to me it is ridiculous and should be removed. Any fool that thinks this country can/should welcome and accept every tired, poor person seeking freedom without failure simply is not thinking.

[The Urban Sombrero]

A nice poem it may be, to me it is ridiculous and should be removed. Any fool that thinks this country can/should welcome and accept every tired, poor person seeking freedom without failure simply is not thinking.

That would be reading the poem in a latitude wider than necessary, which serves your purpose here I suppose. Do you eat fruit? vegetables? beef and chicken?

[SKINNYPIG]

That would be reading the poem in a latitude wider than necessary, which serves your purpose here I suppose. Do you eat fruit? vegetables? beef and chicken?

All the above I suppose. Lol

[The Urban Sombrero]

All the above I suppose. Lol

"This country must take any and all who show up or sneak in."

"Immigrants are the cause of most of America's problems. Round 'em up and ship 'em out."

Surely, there is a discussion to be had, ground to be plowed between foolish naïveté and hateful xenophobia and scapegoating.

[SKINNYPIG]

"This country must take any and all who show up or sneak in."

"Immigrants are the cause of most of America's problems. Round 'em up and ship 'em out."

Surely, there is a discussion to be had, ground to be plowed between foolish naïveté and hateful xenophobia and scapegoating.

"Illegal" immigrants are the cause of many of America's problems and if are not acclimating or trying to go through the lawful process of becoming a citizen, should be rounded up and shipped out.

An immigrant going through the lawful process of becoming an American citizen while acclimating to freedom as we know it should be given every opportunity to do so. Those that do this should be welcomed and valued.

Determining which is which is not an easy task, nor is protecting the greatest nation on earth, freedom and it's people.

Freedom didn't come easy, in fact, it was very difficult. IMO difficult decisions in regards to "illegal" immigration must be made. Not for one second do I claim to have the answer but I'm pretty confident in saying how we deal with "illegal" immigrants at the moment is not working. Figure out what works best and do that, whatever that may be.

[The Urban Sombrero]

"Illegal" immigrants are the cause of many of America's problems and if are not acclimating or trying to go through the lawful process of becoming a citizen, should be rounded up and shipped out.

An immigrant going through the lawful process of becoming an American citizen while acclimating to freedom as we know it should be given every opportunity to do so. Those that do this should be welcomed and valued.

Determining which is which is not an easy task, nor is protecting the greatest nation on earth, freedom and it's people.

Freedom didn't come easy, in fact, it was very difficult. IMO difficult decisions in regards to "illegal" immigration must be made. Not for one second do I claim to have the answer but I'm pretty confident in saying how we deal with "illegal" immigrants at the moment is not working. Figure out what works best and do that, whatever that may be.

Without Hispanics and Latinos, a lot of work vital to our nation would not get done. That's a fact. From fruit and vegetable growing and harvest to slaughterhouses, they are needed. Economic realities dictate we reassess any number of archaic immigration policies so as to better protect this nation and those who would exploit workers not from the United States. "Green card or no green card" simply does not fathom the realities that exist within our own economy and in Mexico and other South American countries.

[TheRealThing]

"Illegal" immigrants are the cause of many of America's problems and if are not acclimating or trying to go through the lawful process of becoming a citizen, should be rounded up and shipped out.

An immigrant going through the lawful process of becoming an American citizen while acclimating to freedom as we know it should be given every opportunity to do so. Those that do this should be welcomed and valued.

Determining which is which is not an easy task, nor is protecting the greatest nation on earth, freedom and it's people.

Freedom didn't come easy, in fact, it was very difficult. IMO difficult decisions in regards to "illegal" immigration must be made. Not for one second do I claim to have the answer but I'm pretty confident in saying how we deal with "illegal" immigrants at the moment is not working. Figure out what works best and do that, whatever that may be.

Whew, what a news day!! Just heard the Lt Governor of Texas address the issue of illegal immigration as it pertains to the state of Texas ONLY for 2016. It seems that nearly a quarter of a million (mostly illegal) immigrants there in the Lone Star State committed just north of 656 thousand crimes, again these are 2016 statistics only, which crimes include everything from murder, to all manner of drug related charges, to child molestation.

But what is all that as compared to a stupid plaque on the base of Lady Liberty, right?

[The Urban Sombrero]

Whew, what a news day!! Just heard the Lt Governor of Texas address the issue of illegal immigration as it pertains to the state of Texas ONLY for 2016. It seems that nearly a quarter of a million (mostly illegal) immigrants there in the Lone Star State committed just north of 656 thousand crimes, again these are 2016 statistics only, which crimes include everything from murder, to all manner of drug related charges, to child molestation.

But what is all that as compared to a stupid plaque on the base of Lady Liberty, right?

Maybe you don't eat fruits and vegetables. Lots of meat though.

No green card? Commit a crime? Where was it argued that was an issue? Just when I think you could not possibly find more straw, wham-bam, here you come with another truck load. The issue at hand is that many industries count on immigrant workers, and immigrants do a lot of work, while many, apparently, commit crimes in Texas. In my view, our immigration laws do not address current global realities.

[TheRealThing]

Maybe you don't eat fruits and vegetables. Lots of meat though.

No green card? Commit a crime? Where was it argued that was an issue? Just when I think you could not possibly find more straw, wham-bam, here you come with another truck load. The issue at hand is that many industries count on immigrant workers, and immigrants do a lot of work, while many, apparently, commit crimes in Texas. In my view, our immigration laws do not address current global realities.

Right, now that Sombrero has successfully (in his mind) put Justice Scalia in his rearview, it is time to retire the Lt Governor of Texas. I mean, who is He compared to the Sombrero, right? :hilarious:

[The Urban Sombrero]

Right, now that Sombrero has successfully (in his mind) put Justice Scalia in his rearview, it is time to retire the Lt Governor of Texas. I mean, who is He compared to the Sombrero, right? :hilarious:

Negative. The crimes committed by illegal immigrants were not defended and are not the issue in this thread.

[TheRealThing]

Negative. The crimes committed by illegal immigrants were not defended and are not the issue in this thread.

Yeah, wouldn't want to bring up any crime statistics while we're arguing about whether they should even be here. Hard to justify their presence in this land, or their taxpayer funded support, much less the illegal sanctuaries in which they thrive. Let those sleeping dogs lie. Though the way I hear it legitimate migrant farm hands come back and forth across the border without causing any trouble. A number of Germans tried (and failed) to assassinate Hitler during WW2. It would have been a pretty thin stretch to argue for unrestricted German immigrants based on those few, just as it is to use the migrant farm hand argument in an attempt to legitimize the gang violence and drug crime which plague legal citizenry.

[The Urban Sombrero]

Yeah, wouldn't want to bring up any crime statistics while we're arguing about whether they should even be here. Hard to justify their presence in this land, or their taxpayer funded support, much less the illegal sanctuaries in which they thrive. Let those sleeping dogs lie. Though the way I hear it legitimate migrant farm hands come back and forth across the border without causing any trouble. A number of Germans tried (and failed) to assassinate Hitler during WW2. It would have been a pretty thin stretch to argue for unrestricted German immigrants based on those few, just as it is to use the migrant farm hand argument in an attempt to legitimize the gang violence and drug crime which plague legal citizenry.

TRT, you have made this thread about what your talking points needed. My point is that current immigration policy/enforcement does not plumb the depths of current global realities and our own economy. Certain industries are absolutely dependent upon immigrants for production. To suggest that all Mexicans do is create problems is xenophobic.

[TheRealThing]

TRT, you have made this thread about what your talking points needed. My point is that current immigration policy/enforcement does not plumb the depths of current global realities and our own economy. Certain industries are absolutely dependent upon immigrants for production. To suggest that all Mexicans do is create problems is xenophobic.

Not that I agree with the premise of your thread starter, though I did address my posts in a manner I feel was germane to the topic. The workers employed in the industries you mention do not drag much in the way of crime stat baggage around with them from what I can see.