[Pulp Fiction]

The buzzing horn.... The clock hitting 0.0
The Red Light behind the backboard....

Which one of these SHOULD be the official end to the quarter, half or the game?

All gyms should have at least one working scoreboard and horn. Most gyms two or more scoreboard with horns and have the Red Lights behind the backboard, but I'm not 100% sure if the Red Lights are mandatory.


With the ending of the Harlan County/Cordia game, this topic is all over the place. "Did he or didn't he get the shot off in time?"

[Pulp Fiction]

I know for a fact that in high school wrestling, the scales used for Weigh-ins have to be calibrated and certified accurate if they are gonna be used for official weigh-ins.

Does the Scoreboard, Horns and Red Lights have to be serviced and certified to be in-sync with each other?

[Granny Bear]

Anytime that you have human beings involved in the integral parts of an activity, you are subject to have errors. So you have officials on the floor of a basketball game and officials at the desk operating the clock, scoreboard and possession arrow.

During the Mountain Classic, there were errors in all of these positions. I'm not complaining about any certain thing, but this is just the fact. Pappy and I have watched the entire tournament (thank you WYMT) and I saw the possession arrow wrong a couple of times, many many calls missed on the floor and the score keeper EXTREMELY slow in updating the scores and even clock errors. I understand that the clock keeper is a veteran and honest person. I don't doubt that for one minute. I've worked more basketball tournaments in my lifetime than most, and I never did it perfectly. Errors are just part of being human.

That said, in the game last night, the clock ran a few times when it shouldn't have and was stopped at least twice when it shouldn't have been stopped. As far as the errors in the clock are concerned, this happened in every single game that I watched.

As far as the synchronized horn, clock and lights are concerned, I highly doubt that it is regulated with a high degree of accuracy if at all. This is just another visual part of the game that helps the fans determine what's happening in the game.

Lots of folks are up in arms about last night's game between Cordia and Harlan County. There have been some ridiculous accusations made about WHY the Lions were slighted and the Bears "given" the game. This is all BS. If anyone thinks that HC has connections in Perry County to win a basketball game, then you are an idiot.

Bottom line is simply this. Carmical made a once in a lifetime shot at the buzzer that won the game for HC. Whether or not it was a timely action will probably never be known...because there are too many human factors in the decision.

If you watch the shot in real time, it is absolutely impossible to determine if it was before the time was out. If you watch the shot in slow mo, it appears that the backboard light flashed just before the ball left his hands. So the synchrony of lights, horn, clock is questioned.

The official, whether he is right or wrong, made a difficult call in real time last night. It was a highly charged emotional game for both teams. But the decision was made and is now history.

Cordia thought they had won the game, and celebrated with a high degree of emotion before the ref announced that HC had called a time out. They had to settle themselves down, and play for one more second. When Carmical hit that shot, the HC bench exploded and Cordia fell pretty hard.

I watched them in the congratulation line after the game was over. The Lions went from super duper high to the lowest of the low; but I didn't see one kid act rude or make any sly comments. It may have happened, but I didn't see it.

This speaks to how disciplined and poised both teams are; but especially the Cordia Lions. In a disputed victory, they had the class.

[Pulp Fiction]

I agree with 100% of your post.... I was just wanting to open up the discussion about the Horn, Clock and Red Light.

A once in a lifetime shot should be the talk instead of a conspiracy dealing with the clock.

[CoachNM0523]

I agree with 100% of your post.... I was just wanting to open up the discussion about the Horn, Clock and Red Light.

A once in a lifetime shot should be the talk instead of a conspiracy dealing with the clock.

I agree with the shot being a once in a lifetime shot. But you can't say it's a consipracy with the clock when it's obvious the shot shouldn't have counted. I have no dog in the fight, but either way it's all said and done. HC moves on, Cordia does not. Games over. But people need to stop acting like it's in question when there is clear conclusive evidence the shot was late.

[Granny Bear]

I clearly stated that the backboard light flashed just as the ball left his hand.

We could argue til the cows come home about the validity of that call. But when you start dissecting the refs' ability to make the correct call, you open up a whole lot more than the shot.

[Easy Wind]

The one thing I take away from all this is Harlan Co. is not near as good as I previously thought. After watching them nearly lose to Hazard, then watching last night; I see no way they come out of the 13th. Jmo

[ky playmaker]

backboard light flashed way before the ball left his hands.

[ky playmaker]

In the slow motion replay the ball is clearly in his hands when the backboard light comes on But watching it live it is much harder to tell when ball left his hands and horn sounded. If this was college game or high school state tourny it would not have counted.

[TheProfessor33]

If you watch the video from the angle at the players back, you can clearly see the ball out of his hands and time (I think 0.2) left on the clock. Also, if you listen, the ball clearly is out of his hands before the horn goes off. The red light obviously isn't in sync with the horn or the clock. Basket good, case closed!!

[ky playmaker]

If .2 was left on clock then your saying he took a full dribble and pulled up in .9 seconds not possible. I have seen 5 different views and angles of it and it looks no good from all of them to me and the one view where you can see the backboard light and ball in his hands its clearly no good. I would love to see the link where it looks good

[Buford T Justice]

I talked to josh hurt( cordia's coach) after the game there was 1.6 on the clock when McDonald hit the shot that rolled around the rim and when the ball dropped through the net the horn went off. There was .2 sec left on the clock. Josh said he talked to the referee and the ref said we are putting time back on the clock the ref josh said .2 is all that shoul be there and the referee told him I know coach but we are going to give them a second and that's all she wrote that kid could shoot all day in a gym by his self and could not hit that shot again but that one counts.

[rojas]

If the official is watching the clock, he is probably not watching the ball come out of the shooter's hand so the clock turning to 0:00 is the least desirable option.

Sound travels at about 1080 feet per second. So if the official is 50 feet from where the horn (not the horn operator, but the horn) is located it would take about 0.05 second for the sound of the horn to reach the official's ears.

Light travels at about 185 miles per second, which is almost instant. The light would be far more accurate than the first two options.

[Pulp Fiction]

In the slow motion replay the ball is clearly in his hands when the backboard light comes on But watching it live it is much harder to tell when ball left his hands and horn sounded. If this was college game or high school state tourny it would not have counted.

High school sports do not authorize any type of video replay.

Regular season game or the State Championship.... no type of video replay is authorized in high school athletics.

[Pulp Fiction]

If the official is watching the clock, he is probably not watching the ball come out of the shooter's hand so the clock turning to 0:00 is the least desirable option.

Sound travels at about 1080 feet per second. So if the official is 50 feet from where the horn (not the horn operator, but the horn) is located it would take about 0.05 second for the sound of the horn to reach the official's ears.

Light travels at about 185 miles per second, which is almost instant. The light would be far more accurate than the first two options.

Great point, and if we knew for 100% certainty that the Horn, Scoreboard and Red Light are in perfect sync, then the discussion is over and the shot should not have counted.

But as I just posted, no type of video replay is authorized.

[Pulp Fiction]

The discussion of this shot proves to me just how much we love our high school athletics.

Doesn't matter the team or the sport.... we love our sports teams.

[Panther Thunder]

If the official is watching the clock, he is probably not watching the ball come out of the shooter's hand so the clock turning to 0:00 is the least desirable option.

Sound travels at about 1080 feet per second. So if the official is 50 feet from where the horn (not the horn operator, but the horn) is located it would take about 0.05 second for the sound of the horn to reach the official's ears.

Light travels at about 185 miles per second, which is almost instant. The light would be far more accurate than the first two options.

I seem to remember a Sweet 16 Game coming down to this. And it was stated that official in KY HS were taught to use the horn. Honestly the red light is tough even in this scenario unless used by instant replay.

Memory may be off, it would have been 10+ years.

[BallerFromTheHoller]

15th region officials are a joke all of them. They anticipate calls instead of getting it right

[ky playmaker]

Most states use instant replay at their state tournament. Some just for semi finals or finals

[Granny Bear]

15th region officials are a joke all of them. They anticipate calls instead of getting it right

This one thing aggravates me more than anything else.

And certain officials have favorite calls that they will call whether or not they have been committed.

[Big Hammer]

A great game. Heartbreak for Cordia and joy for HC. This game is in the books and can't be changed, but I agree with the comment that we have some poor officials. I watch a lot of high school and middle school games and it amazes me the number of calls missed. With that said I still think these officials are doing the best job they can so we have to accept it as part of the game

[basketball101]

Welcome to high school basketball you got to love it .

[stripedofficial]

The horn is what the official is listening for. Its impossible for him to watch the clock and the ball.
So what he goes off is if he thinks it left the players hand before the horn sounds.
Without replay (not used in ky at anytime) its strictly a judgment call.

I havent seen the shot. But i can say that had to be one of the hardest real time decisions that offical has ever made. Right or wrong, his opinion is all that matters in the end.

[Basketballmom41]

This one thing aggravates me more than anything else.

And certain officials have favorite calls that they will call whether or not they have been committed.

They do, and they have teams they are partial to before they even step onto the court. So much so that one ref is even referred to as "Mr. Paintsville". But, with that being said, I would take the 15th region officials over the 14th region officials any day.

[Pulp Fiction]

Did this shot make it on ESPN's Top 10?

[Granny Bear]

I know that ESPN requested the film and permission to use it from WYMT. Permission given, and it was supposed to air that night on the Top 10. I watched what I thought was the correct program, but never saw it.

[Pulp Fiction]

I know that ESPN requested the film and permission to use it from WYMT. Permission given, and it was supposed to air that night on the Top 10. I watched what I thought was the correct program, but never saw it.

Wait........ WHAT ARE YOU DOING OUT OF HIBERNATION!?!?!?!

We need to call the Ky. Dept. of Fish & Wildlife to report a Black Bear out of Hibernation.

[Image: http://www.kentuckyangling.com/magazine/...go_290.jpg]

[Image: http://media.treehugger.com/assets/image...earDen.jpg]

[zaga_fan]

The red light is NOT official in high school. It's a luxury for schools that are able to have it.

The clock and buzzer are official.

[zaga_fan]

I've only read the first post in this thread.

If someone explained that already, my bad lol

[Granny Bear]

Wait........ WHAT ARE YOU DOING OUT OF HIBERNATION!?!?!?!

We need to call the Ky. Dept. of Fish & Wildlife to report a Black Bear out of Hibernation.

[Image: http://www.kentuckyangling.com/magazine/...go_290.jpg]

[Image: http://media.treehugger.com/assets/image...earDen.jpg]

:moon:

cute pic though!!

The red light is NOT official in high school. It's a luxury for schools that are able to have it.

The clock and buzzer are official.

Thank you for that comment!

I've only read the first post in this thread.

If someone explained that already, my bad lol

It had not been addressed until now.