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10-27-2016, 01:32 PM
I would like to hear how much fans think recruiting is occurring at the high school level. Some private schools have done this for decades, but seems in my area kids "move" to other districts or counties. Thoughts about this issue?
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10-27-2016, 01:47 PM
I Think it happens all the time and the KHSAA turns a blind Eye to it or just doesn't care. Take the case of the Fairview eagles. It was so obvious from the get go what was going on at Fairview but KHSAA turned their heads and let it go on for several years. They let a team go 14-1 all the way to the state championship game putting the law biding teams out of the playoffs and then after the season is over that's when they do something about it. and the kicker is they never got caught for all the out of state kids that they recruited they got caught for playing an ineligible player in their own school system.
10-27-2016, 03:05 PM
oldschool77 Wrote:I would like to hear how much fans think recruiting is occurring at the high school level. Some private schools have done this for decades, but seems in my area kids "move" to other districts or counties. Thoughts about this issue?
lots of cheaters in this state and the fans will lie worse than Hilary and say they don't :biglmao:
10-27-2016, 03:12 PM
pjdoug Wrote:lots of cheaters in this state and the fans will lie worse than Hilary and say they don't :biglmao:
Boys, its hard to lie worse than Hillary.
10-27-2016, 03:43 PM
- I DON'T think recruiting happens hardly much at all in the way most would define "recruiting". I do not think there are very many High School coaches who actively seek out players and try to convince them to transfer schools.
- I DO think parents and kids choose to make moves that are athletics related though a whole lot and half of the fanbases that accuse other teams of recruiting benefit from this as well.
- I DO think that the above statement is not necessarily a level playing field and see why people get upset about it as the rich typically get richer and the poor get poorer.
- I DON'T fault parents who make the decision to do this though as I would bet nearly any parent would be willing to do what is best for their child's benefit if they had the means present themselves to achieve it.
- With all this said I DO feel that some private schools have benefitted from loopholes over the years that give a competitive advantage toward luring talent and those loopholes should be closed or at the very least monitored closer as they are being mis-used from their intent (need based scholarships end up going to athletes, paying off tuition through fundraisers, etc) .
I have said for years now that recruiting is not the problem and the single quickest way to show one's ignorance on High School Football is to accuse programs as "recruiting" players. What is happening is what I call TALENT POOL FLOW. It has always existed and will always continue to exist, but with the evolution of social media, advancements in transportation, and the increase of importance due to collegiate athletic recruiting it is now more prevalent than it has ever been.
Essentially every geographical area has a talent pool associated with it that gets divided among the schools in that area. Talent will always flow, whether by transfer or by families moving, and often benefit specific schools or hinder the weakest. Twenty five years ago when long distance phone calls existed, roads were curvier, and you had to get your information from a Newspaper the talent pool flow did not move as drastic. People either did not have the means or the information and thus rarely moved whether as a by product of effort, restrictions due to commuting time to school or work, or kids being restricted to a certain pool of friends.
Nowadays kids are getting involved in AAU, travel ball, and have the ability through Social Media to maintain friendships in different areas. Parents now readily can compare schools, often work from greater commutes, and see who is having success and easily facilitate moves to best facilitate their kid's chances for scholarships or to play with a certain group of kids (happens very often in basketball especially).
- I DO think parents and kids choose to make moves that are athletics related though a whole lot and half of the fanbases that accuse other teams of recruiting benefit from this as well.
- I DO think that the above statement is not necessarily a level playing field and see why people get upset about it as the rich typically get richer and the poor get poorer.
- I DON'T fault parents who make the decision to do this though as I would bet nearly any parent would be willing to do what is best for their child's benefit if they had the means present themselves to achieve it.
- With all this said I DO feel that some private schools have benefitted from loopholes over the years that give a competitive advantage toward luring talent and those loopholes should be closed or at the very least monitored closer as they are being mis-used from their intent (need based scholarships end up going to athletes, paying off tuition through fundraisers, etc) .
I have said for years now that recruiting is not the problem and the single quickest way to show one's ignorance on High School Football is to accuse programs as "recruiting" players. What is happening is what I call TALENT POOL FLOW. It has always existed and will always continue to exist, but with the evolution of social media, advancements in transportation, and the increase of importance due to collegiate athletic recruiting it is now more prevalent than it has ever been.
Essentially every geographical area has a talent pool associated with it that gets divided among the schools in that area. Talent will always flow, whether by transfer or by families moving, and often benefit specific schools or hinder the weakest. Twenty five years ago when long distance phone calls existed, roads were curvier, and you had to get your information from a Newspaper the talent pool flow did not move as drastic. People either did not have the means or the information and thus rarely moved whether as a by product of effort, restrictions due to commuting time to school or work, or kids being restricted to a certain pool of friends.
Nowadays kids are getting involved in AAU, travel ball, and have the ability through Social Media to maintain friendships in different areas. Parents now readily can compare schools, often work from greater commutes, and see who is having success and easily facilitate moves to best facilitate their kid's chances for scholarships or to play with a certain group of kids (happens very often in basketball especially).
10-27-2016, 03:45 PM
EKUAlum05 Wrote:- I DON'T think recruiting happens hardly much at all in the way most would define "recruiting". I do not think there are very many High School coaches who actively seek out players and try to convince them to transfer schools.bull butter is all I have to say about that :biggrin:
- I DO think parents and kids choose to make moves that are athletics related though a whole lot and half of the fanbases that accuse other teams of recruiting benefit from this as well.
- I DO think that the above statement is not necessarily a level playing field and see why people get upset about it as the rich typically get richer and the poor get poorer.
- I DON'T fault parents who make the decision to do this though as I would bet nearly any parent would be willing to do what is best for their child's benefit if they had the means present themselves to achieve it.
- With all this said I DO feel that some private schools have benefitted from loopholes over the years that give a competitive advantage toward luring talent and those loopholes should be closed or at the very least monitored closer as they are being mis-used from their intent (need based scholarships, going to athletes, paying off tuition through fundraisers, etc) .
I have said for years now that recruiting is not the problem and the single quickest way to show one's ignorance on High School Football is to accuse programs as "recruiting" players. What is happening is what I call TALENT POOL FLOW. It has always existed and will always continue to exist, but with the evolution of social media, advancements in transportation, and the increase of importance due to collegiate athletic recruiting it is now more prevalent than it has ever been.
Essentially every geographical area has a talent pool associated with it that gets divided among the schools in that area. Talent will always flow, whether by transfer or by families moving, and often benefit specific schools or hinder the weakest. Twenty five years ago when long distance phone calls existed, roads were curvier, and you had to get your information from a Newspaper the talent pool flow did not move as drastic. People either did not have the means or the information and thus rarely moved whether as a by product of effort, restrictions due to commuting time to school or work, or kids being restricted to a certain pool of friends.
Nowadays kids are getting involved in AAU, travel ball, and have the ability through Social Media to maintain friendships in different areas. Parents now readily can compare schools, often work from greater commutes, and see who is having success and easily facilitate moves to best facilitate their kid's chances for scholarships or to play with a certain group of kids (happens very often in basketball especially).
10-27-2016, 03:57 PM
pjdoug Wrote:You seem like the Hilary type I mentioned above.Funny I always pegged you as the guy on here most likely to be "With her"
The Hillary types are the people who accuse schools of recruiting as their fallback and saying "It is not fair" because they feel everyone should get a trophy and never accept the fact that maybe if they put in the work to raise their program that they would be the school parents choose to move to.
10-27-2016, 04:01 PM
EKUAlum05 Wrote:Funny I always pegged you as the guy on here most likely to be "With her"
The Hillary types are the people who accuse schools of recruiting as their fallback and saying "It is not fair" because they feel everyone should get a trophy and never accept the fact that maybe if they put in the work to raise their program that they would be the school parents choose to move to.
The Hilary types are those that waste words and type endless paragraphs of BS trying to get others to believe their lies.
10-27-2016, 04:10 PM
pjdoug Wrote:The Hilary types are those that waste words and type endless paragraphs of BS trying to get others to believe their lies.
I think of them more as the kind who refuse to entertain a logical argument and blindly vote for her even if someone smacked them in the face with truth. Libs always think everyone's opninion should be respected unless yours is different than their's.
10-27-2016, 04:22 PM
You both sound like Trumpers!
10-27-2016, 04:32 PM
Call it "talent flow" or whatever you want, it is all cheating. Coaches recruit parents to cause the "talent flow". There is nothing that can be done about a child that legitimately moves to a different school district or county "to get more exposure". Some never move or intend to move. If the player is caught he loses a year of eligibility, then is allowed to play. The coaches and athletic program suffer very little if any penalty. As far as parents wanting what's best for their child, unless the player is D-1 potential with NFL aspirations not sure moving the family to another school district for a better team should be a top priority. If the kid's that good, he will get noticed at Podunk HS anyway.
10-27-2016, 04:34 PM
Not sure how this became a political thread. Guess it's on everyone's mind right now.
10-27-2016, 04:55 PM
oldschool77 Wrote:Call it "talent flow" or whatever you want, it is all cheating. Coaches recruit parents to cause the "talent flow". There is nothing that can be done about a child that legitimately moves to a different school district or county "to get more exposure". Some never move or intend to move. If the player is caught he loses a year of eligibility, then is allowed to play. The coaches and athletic program suffer very little if any penalty. As far as parents wanting what's best for their child, unless the player is D-1 potential with NFL aspirations not sure moving the family to another school district for a better team should be a top priority. If the kid's that good, he will get noticed at Podunk HS anyway.
Call it "talent flow" or whatever you want, it is all cheating.= Not technically... as long as they are meeting KHSAA rules then you cannot call it cheating. Cheating occurs when you break the rules, when someone follows the rules and makes a legit move that is prefectly legal and should always stay perfectly legal
Coaches recruit parents to cause the "talent flow".= If this happens then it is illegal and should be reported. I don't think this is what happens the majority of the time though, I think the parents make their own decisions for what is best for their kid. If Coaches do have parents or boosters do their bidding though there is no question that is illegal when it occurs.
There is nothing that can be done about a child that legitimately moves to a different school district or county "to get more exposure".= Correct, and as long as a family makes a bonafide change of residence it will stay that way
Some never move or intend to move. If the player is caught he loses a year of eligibility, then is allowed to play. The coaches and athletic program suffer very little if any penalty.= I 100% agree with your frustration here. The KHSAA does an awful job of enforcing bonafide changes of residence The KHSAA should do a better job of following up on transfers to verify during the season if they are legit moves. If a player is found playing illegally the school should forfeit games in which they have played and the Coach suspended. Instead of ruling them eligible it should be a probationary eligibility where the KHSAA can then investigate and confirm later and then administer proper punishment if they have found the move to be under false pretenses.
As far as parents wanting what's best for their child, unless the player is D-1 potential with NFL aspirations not sure moving the family to another school district for a better team should be a top priority. If the kid's that good, he will get noticed at Podunk HS anyway= Do not agree. Athletics may be a critical piece to the puzzle, but often parents move when considering the entire picture to best benefit their child. Academics, Social Development, how a coach(s) handle their kids.
It is also undeniable that certain schools and programs considerably help a kids' chances of being noticed. When scouts are already coming to a school it increases chances of getting attention, when teams are playing deep in the playoffs or in a Championship game it is helping their chance for individual recognition and recruitment, some High School coaches also do a good job leveraging attention for kids who may otherwise have been overlooked.
What I think we both can agree on is that loopholes that get taken advantage of need to be either more closely monitored or shut down, and that the KHSAA has to do a better job enforcing the legitimacy of change of address moves. Parents are going to continue to relocate for the benefit of their kids... I don't take issue with that.. but when they try to take advantage of that situation to still live in the same address and send their kids out of district, that should be stopped.
10-27-2016, 06:30 PM
oldschool77 Wrote:Not sure how this became a political thread. Guess it's on everyone's mind right now.
sorry for the Hilary reference. I don't usually even like to talk about politics, but couldn't think of a better known liar
. some will defend the cheating to the end knowing good and well that they cheat.
10-27-2016, 06:38 PM
I think that kids from other states shouldn't be allowed to attend schools in Ky. I mean when you pull in parking lots of some schools, theres more out of state tags than Ky. tags. WV tags, TN. tags, OH tags... This may just be coincidence, but every team that won the state championship in every class last season, were from border counties...
10-27-2016, 06:54 PM
pjdoug Wrote:sorry for the Hilary reference. I don't usually even like to talk about politics, but couldn't think of a better known liar
Bingo money brings a lot of money to Whitley County sports facilities......Nice complex for recruiting in the future and if you are looking for a scout........I Know one in the area :lmao: And yes vote Hillary and the truth will come out.....Love from Russia
irateSho
10-27-2016, 07:20 PM
64SUR Wrote:Bingo money brings a lot of money to Whitley County sports facilities......Nice complex for recruiting in the future and if you are looking for a scout........I Know one in the area :lmao: And yes vote Hillary and the truth will come out.....Love from Russia
Yeah. it's been pretty obvious over the years that they ain't had a scout out bringing top recruits in.
10-27-2016, 07:20 PM
I Rule The World Wrote:I think that kids from other states shouldn't be allowed to attend schools in Ky. I mean when you pull in parking lots of some schools, theres more out of state tags than Ky. tags. WV tags, TN. tags, OH tags... This may just be coincidence, but every team that won the state championship in every class last season, were from border counties...
strange coincidence for sure
nicker:
10-27-2016, 07:47 PM
I Rule The World Wrote:I think that kids from other states shouldn't be allowed to attend schools in Ky. I mean when you pull in parking lots of some schools, theres more out of state tags than Ky. tags. WV tags, TN. tags, OH tags... This may just be coincidence, but every team that won the state championship in every class last season, were from border counties...
Not quite.. but fairly close...
Warren County (South Warren and Bowling Green) does not border TN, Simpson County sits squarely between Warren County and the Tennessee line.
I actually agree that I am not a huge fan of the Out of State tuition rule the way it is designed now. I don't think it is a bad thing in intent, but something has to happen where either you can pay tuition to attend another School District (to balance it) or do away with it all together.
With that said: a side question, does an imaginary border make athlete's better? People have a fascination with out of state kids when across the State there are just as many transfers or relocations from in-state kids. Because a kid's family moves from 10 miles away that is out of State why do people think they are better athletes than a family moving from another County that is 25 miles away?
10-27-2016, 07:58 PM
EKUAlum05 Wrote:Not quite.. but fairly close...Some people have an inferiority complex about being from Kentucky. I moved here when I was 4 and my wife moved here when she was 36. Lets just say we have divergent opinions on state matters.
Warren County (South Warren and Bowling Green) does not border TN, Simpson County sits squarely between Warren County and the Tennessee line.
I actually agree that I am not a huge fan of the Out of State tuition rule the way it is designed now. I don't think it is a bad thing in intent, but something has to happen where either you can pay tuition to attend another School District (to balance it) or do away with it all together.
With that said: a side question, does an imaginary border make athlete's better? People have a fascination with out of state kids when across the State there are just as many transfers or relocations from in-state kids. Because a kid's family moves from 10 miles away that is out of State why do people think they are better athletes than a family moving from another County that is 25 miles away?
10-27-2016, 09:27 PM
E's Army Wrote:How do you police private schools who have no boundaries? It is amazing how easy it is to get a kid eligible at a private school.
It's a tough question to answer.
I think the best place to start is to police how they accept students and students pay tuition.
There has to be a closer monitoring process to how they award need based scholarships to make sure it is going to the most qualified students and not just to prospective athletes.
The Lexington Catholic incident this Summer also brought to light that they were doing what appeared to be offsetting tuition based off fund raisers. That is also a slippery slope that easily could be abused if it is not monitored closely.
Now don't get me wrong, I actually think both things mentioned above are great things if applied the correct way. Private schools offer unbelievable academic advantages and if a kid's family cannot afford them and they can earn (key word) some financial aide I am all for it, but just have to make sure an athletic agenda is not pushing who gets to enjoy the school.
10-27-2016, 09:28 PM
Let me ask..
Is it legal for kids who live in one district or another county to drive from home to play ball elsewhere. Such as living in Pike county but driving to Floyd co to play ball?
.
I ask because about a decade ago our region had a basketball team that had at least two of the starting five that drove from other counties to play there.Another drove about 30 minutes one way from another school district(in the same county) to play there,. I wont get into other than that but it was pretty common knowledge at the time..
Not badmouthing or anything but im curious.
Is it legal for kids who live in one district or another county to drive from home to play ball elsewhere. Such as living in Pike county but driving to Floyd co to play ball?
.
I ask because about a decade ago our region had a basketball team that had at least two of the starting five that drove from other counties to play there.Another drove about 30 minutes one way from another school district(in the same county) to play there,. I wont get into other than that but it was pretty common knowledge at the time..
Not badmouthing or anything but im curious.
10-27-2016, 09:33 PM
I would say that the biggest recruiters are the private schools or other schools that offer tuition packages into the district. I would think this benefits them a lot when you consider some districts in 6A for instance are closed enrollment districts. The choice to move a child for athletic reasons is shameful on the parents part because you should worry more about the education aspect of it instead.
10-27-2016, 09:40 PM
Blacksmith Wrote:Let me ask..
Is it legal for kids who live in one district or another county to drive to from home to play ball elsewhere. Such as living in Pike county but driving to Floyd co to play ball?
.
I ask because about a decade ago our region had a basketball team that had at least two of the starting five that drove from other counties to play there.Another drove about 30 minutes one way from another school district(in the same county) to play there,. I wont get into other than that but it was pretty common knowledge at the time..
Not badmouthing or anything but im curious.
Hopefully someone with better comprehension of the rules can speak. The first question I would ask though would be, did they spend all four years at the same High School or did they transfer in?
If they transferred starting Grade 9, as far as I understand, they would only be ruled eligible immediately via a bonafide change of address. If they transferred without a change of address they would be eligible after sitting out one full year
If they provided their own transportation for all four years (not aided by a coach) then they would be eligible despite living in another District.
BTW, here are some KHSAA official bylaws if anyone is curious:
http://khsaa.org/handbook/bylaws/20152016/bylaw4.pdf (Eligibility)
http://khsaa.org/handbook/bylaws/20152016/bylaw6.pdf (Tranfers)
http://khsaa.org/handbook/bylaws/20152016/bylaw16.pdf (Recruitment)
10-27-2016, 09:43 PM
Another topic we haven't addressed, because it only applies to Jefferson County, is the role of Magnet Schools as well. I think this is probably the least abused topic, but it is foreseeable to transfer Jefferson County schools (and not have to provide your own transportation if I am not mistaken) due to changing or being accepted into a magnet program.
10-27-2016, 09:53 PM
One possible solution to the problem is to do what the State of Georgia has done for High School Football.
If you all think transfers are a big deal in KY, it doesn't come close to what happens in Georgia!
Georgia has a rule in place that addresses the percentage of the school that is from Out of District and subsequently forces them to play up in class as a result.
If more than 3 percent of the student body reside outside the school's County of Origin or Attendance Zone you have to move up a class. I could see doing something similar except including it for Out of District students instead of just the County. This could forseeably bump several smaller private schools up an additional class, and also make public school with large numbers of kids from outside their District have to play up as well.
Here is an article about it... they call it the Buford rule because Buford High School is noted for their number of transfers and kids moving to Gwinnett County to try and attend. When I first moved to Georgia Buford was a 2A school and now I think they are like Class 5A
http://highschoolsports.blog.ajc.com/201...e-schools/
If you all think transfers are a big deal in KY, it doesn't come close to what happens in Georgia!
Georgia has a rule in place that addresses the percentage of the school that is from Out of District and subsequently forces them to play up in class as a result.
If more than 3 percent of the student body reside outside the school's County of Origin or Attendance Zone you have to move up a class. I could see doing something similar except including it for Out of District students instead of just the County. This could forseeably bump several smaller private schools up an additional class, and also make public school with large numbers of kids from outside their District have to play up as well.
Here is an article about it... they call it the Buford rule because Buford High School is noted for their number of transfers and kids moving to Gwinnett County to try and attend. When I first moved to Georgia Buford was a 2A school and now I think they are like Class 5A
http://highschoolsports.blog.ajc.com/201...e-schools/
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