[TheRealThing]

Just listened to a debate between Lt Col Ralph Peters and Reagan economic guru Art Laffer. The Lt Col with whom I usually agree, was less than gracious in his criticisms of Donald Trump, citing several areas in which he considers Trump to be lacking, among them were a perceived lack of experience, his own level of confidence in his ability, his business bankruptcies and as the cherry on top, he repeated the line others have hit Trump with most often. And that is his supposed failure to articulate any plan structure, particularly in the area of finance.

Art Laffer wholeheartedly disagreed on all counts, and endorsed Trump's candidacy without reservation. Saying in particular how impressed he is with the Trump economic plan which he said was laid out "very well." Now folks, the financial steam which has powered this nation's economy from the 1980's to date, was produced by Art Laffer's financial policies initiated during the Reagan Administration. I will take the opinion of the successful architect of the boom times of those days any day of he week and twice on Sunday, over the madness which has characterized the Obama economic policies. I mean, we go from 10 Trillion in debt to 22 Trillion and the Dems are still crowing and extolling their own virtues? :please:

Frankly, the criticisms of Trump seem far more hollow to me than any lack of clarity on Trump's part about how he will accomplish his aims. And BTW, the continuing schoolyard mocking and berations targeting Trump from the left and unfortunately as I predicted, from some deriving from 'Planet Vacuous' on the right, is just more of the same old tripe served up by Dems last election cycle. The vast majority of candidate's "plans" have been mere eyewash if you ask me. Forgotten immediately upon elective office owing to the existence of the real world they have just gotten elected to govern. Laffer thinks Trump has it right and after all, he is a great white shark in an economic sea full of financial predators and pitfalls. In other words Trump is successful by any definition, and I for one would be quite comfortable watching him move into the Oval Office. Most of these know it all politicians have never done a thing but talk anyway.

And we should at least be honest with ourselves with regard to the importance of this deal about the importance of experience. We have a Congress full of experienced politicians. Two of them are Former Senate Leader Harry Reid (who's destructive and traitorous exploits I have long complained about) and who was able to single handedly destroy the functionality of the Senate. And former Speaker Nancy Pelosi who gave us ObamaCare. Added to the list of the 'experienced', is a President of 7 years who just gave us the "Iran Nuclear Deal." At any rate, one thing that makes me cringe is the incessant criticisms that Congress isn't getting anything done. I hope they don't do another thing except pay the bills until after the next President takes office.

I'm not all that impressed with experienced politicians who think they know what is best for Americans and frankly humanity at large. The more I consider the abilities and almost as importantly the likelihood of being elected by the rest for the field, the more I find myself in Trump's corner.

Other than Trump's undeniable achievements, he has one trait that none of the rabid chipmunks populating the present administration have, he knows a lie when he hears one. Believe me, we need somebody who can't be fooled by the terminally stupid at the helm right now.

[ronald reagan]

How did Laffer and his "curve" power the financial stream from the 1980's until today?

Tax Rates are 40-50% higher today than in 1987. And have been 25-30% higher than then otherwise. I mean, today, millionaires pay about 50% when all things are considered. In 1987, they were paying only about 28% marginal rate at the federal level.

Tax rates have risen steadily (except for the slight dip during Bush years) since 1988.

I agree with Laffer on his assessment of taxation and fiscal policy. But to say that he's responsible for the growth thats occurred in the past 15-20 years, isn't factually sound.

As far as trumps tax plan -- its crazy. You can't drop taxes drastically on everyone and everything. And remove 50 million people from the taxpayer base. And expect a lower deficit. Laffer even agrees with that. We shouldn't be removing people from the base, but instead, ADDING people to it. The traditional conservative approach to tax reform is as follows:

1)Simplify.
2)Flatten.
3)Broaden.

Trump doesn't flatten it, and certainly doesn't broaden it (He narrows it drastically). And "simplify", doubtful. He hasn't issued enough information on it to determine that yet. Just a few numbers and ideas, is NOT a tax plan. Its a campaign promise. However, its dead on arrival. No congress will ever pass it. Especially not this congress.

We need a real leader, who has fought for conservative values year after year for longer than just the past 6 months.

Trump supported the largest tax in american history. A 5 trillion dollar tax increase, for just one year!

Trump supports universal healthcare, and has said that has not changed.

Trump was pro-abortion.

Trump supported Hillary Clinton with speeches, funds, and fundraisers.

Trump dodged military service with deferrments.

Trump has an F rating from Club for Growth -- the benchmark in pro-growth policies.

The list goes on and on and on. Do you want more?

[TheRealThing]

How did Laffer and his "curve" power the financial stream from the 1980's until today?

Tax Rates are 40-50% higher today than in 1987. And have been 25-30% higher than then otherwise. I mean, today, millionaires pay about 50% when all things are considered. In 1987, they were paying only about 28% marginal rate at the federal level.

Tax rates have risen steadily (except for the slight dip during Bush years) since 1988.

I agree with Laffer on his assessment of taxation and fiscal policy. But to say that he's responsible for the growth thats occurred in the past 15-20 years, isn't factually sound.

As far as trumps tax plan -- its crazy. You can't drop taxes drastically on everyone and everything. And remove 50 million people from the taxpayer base. And expect a lower deficit. Laffer even agrees with that. We shouldn't be removing people from the base, but instead, ADDING people to it. The traditional conservative approach to tax reform is as follows:

1)Simplify.
2)Flatten.
3)Broaden.

Trump doesn't flatten it, and certainly doesn't broaden it (He narrows it drastically). And "simplify", doubtful. He hasn't issued enough information on it to determine that yet. Just a few numbers and ideas, is NOT a tax plan. Its a campaign promise. However, its dead on arrival. No congress will ever pass it. Especially not this congress.

We need a real leader, who has fought for conservative values year after year for longer than just the past 6 months.

Trump supported the largest tax in american history. A 5 trillion dollar tax increase, for just one year!

Trump supports universal healthcare, and has said that has not changed.

Trump was pro-abortion.

Trump supported Hillary Clinton with speeches, funds, and fundraisers.

Trump dodged military service with deferrments.

Trump has an F rating from Club for Growth -- the benchmark in pro-growth policies.

The list goes on and on and on. Do you want more?

LOL, list whatever you want.

I was there and I saw Reagan's financial policies turn the nightmare of a 12% inflation rate and a 13.75 mortgage interest rate from the Carter Administration, into the following;
EXCERPT---
"Interest rates fell from over 20 percent down to 10 percent, and in the first three months of 1983 the economy had a rate of growth equivalent to 2.6 percent per year. In the second three months (quarter) of the year the economy grew at an annual rate of 10.9 percent. In 1983, inflation was only 3.2 percent – down from 10.3 percent in 1981. And for last half of 1983 and into 1984 the economy's growth rate hovered between 5 and 7.4 percent." http://www.fsmitha.com/h2/ch37-reagan2.htm

The two names I remember Reagan using most often from the era are Laffer and Friedman. The financial sted of this land, was basically on cruise control from the days when Reagan's economic policies righted our ship of state, until 2007.

No disrespect intended there Ronald, but I will take the word of Art Laffer over your views about the viability of Trump's economic visions. What I said with regard to US growth wasn't narrowed to the past 15 years, after all, 7 of those belong to Obama. I said that the economic policies initiated under Reagan healed the US so well, they set the stage for the great era of growth we have known since those days, which amounts to around 27 years by my reckoning, that would exclude the last 7 which pulled a vacuum.

I got some advice once from a brilliant business man of my acquaintance. I didn't want to employ a certain individual based on what I knew about him at the time, from days past. The advice? "There's been many a bird straighten up and fly right." Frankly, I happen to be one of them. Trump has changed his ways and straightened up to fly right. He has gone to reasonable lengths publicly to explain his enlightenment.

In view of the alternatives represented in last night's Democratic debate, I for one feel very comfortable with Trump over any of them, most notably would be Hillary. As I have said on more than one occasion recently, my fav is Ted Cruz. But, I'm going to support nominees that I THINK, have the potential to get the mess straightened out and hope one of them gets the nomination.

I believe though the Clinton Era is hailed as a great economic achievement, a few legislative efforts of the day began the unraveling of the magic of Reaganomics. Things got worse under W, and then they got MUCH worse under Obama. In other words, I'll grant you that the momentum of the Reagan Era has dissipated away. It was not my intention to state otherwise.

[Ring'Em Up]

I so hope you are THE ronald reagan from a couple years ago. You've certainly got the qualities and characteristics of him. Those were great times on this forum. :Thumbs:

[ronald reagan]

This is THE ronald reagan.

------------------------------

TheRealThing,

Lets be clear about a few things. I agree with Laffer on his idea that in certain cases, lowering rates can bring about higher revenues through increased GDP growth. But there hasn't been a single organization, person, or study that shows the Trump plan will do this. Lets take FactCheck.org as a quick example.

-Is not revenue neutral.
-Decreases revenue about about 10 trillion over the next decade.
-Removes responsibility from about 73 million people, by giving them 0 tax liability.
-drastically lowers taxes on every other group of people, including at 60% corporate tax cut.
-Increases the deficit by about 9 trillion over the decade.

Now, read this very carefully. Laffer supports the tax plan because it will cause a moderate to large increase in GDP growth. Currently it is in the mid 2% annualized range, while the trump plan could create a sustained growth of around 3.8-4.0% (which doesn't take into account higher inflation as a result of rapidly increasing deficits). That's a good growth rate, no one is arguing against that. But Laffer, is a tax and growth expert... NOT a budget deficit expert. His focus is on lower taxes and higher GDP growth. Not paying down the debt.

Trump has consistently shown he is a liberal, admitted he is a liberal, thought that the democrats handle the economy better with their policies, supported and financed liberals, proposed 5 trillion dollar tax hikes, and still to this day is in favor of universal healthcare.

A real plan for tax reform doesn't just lower rates and remove people from the roles. It does the following.

1)Simplifies.
2)Flattens.
3)Broadens.

The Trump plan partly accomplishes 1 of the 3. And Reverses the other 2.

I urge you, stay open minded and don't be a cynic. And whats the difference between a cynic and a skeptic? A skeptic doesn't believe something will happen, or is happening. A cynic, continues to not believe even after the evidence is presented. The evidence is clear... Trump is no conservative.

He..
-Support funding for Planned Parenthood.
-Supported largest tax hike in American History.
-Is against the flat-tax, and like progressive taxation.
-Believes the wealthy should be penalized for their hard work and success.
-Was against the Iraq war and removing Saddam.
-Is against reforming SS and Medicare.
-Is for Affirmative Action
-Has always been pro-choice, but suddenly "changed his views" as a candidate.
-Is for the assault weapons ban.
-wants longer wait periods to buy guns.
-doesn't believe that "supply side" economics (your boy Laffer's baby) works.
-Supports hate crime legislation.
-Is against free-trade.
-admits that he has "bought" politicians.
-believes in campaign finance reform, limiting free speech.
-believes vaccines cause autism.
-is against missle defense.
-says he may run as independent, rather than lose as a republican.
-believes in the sanctity of marriage so much, he has married 3 times himself!
-john mccain not a hero, because he was captured.

and again, the list goes on.

The worst part of it all. Donald Trump left the republican party in 1999, became a Democrat in 2001 (based upon his registration), and remained one throughout the presidency of George Bush.... only switching back in late 2009.


My questions to you is........

How on earth could you support someone for president, who is a RINO? What DO you like about this man? And how do you feel about a tax plan that increases the deficit about trillions and removes 73 million people from responsiblity for our nation?

[ronald reagan]

I so hope you are THE ronald reagan from a couple years ago. You've certainly got the qualities and characteristics of him. Those were great times on this forum. :Thumbs:

Thou has sayest the truth.

I AM.... Ronald Reagan.

Let the good times begin again.:redboxer:

[WideRight05]

Thou has sayest the truth.

I AM.... Ronald Reagan.

Let the good times begin again.:redboxer:

Hopefully we'll get to keep you around a good while this time. Welcome back RR!

[TheRealThing]

This is THE ronald reagan.

------------------------------

TheRealThing,

Lets be clear about a few things. I agree with Laffer on his idea that in certain cases, lowering rates can bring about higher revenues through increased GDP growth. But there hasn't been a single organization, person, or study that shows the Trump plan will do this. Lets take FactCheck.org as a quick example.

-Is not revenue neutral.
-Decreases revenue about about 10 trillion over the next decade.
-Removes responsibility from about 73 million people, by giving them 0 tax liability.
-drastically lowers taxes on every other group of people, including at 60% corporate tax cut.
-Increases the deficit by about 9 trillion over the decade.

Now, read this very carefully. Laffer supports the tax plan because it will cause a moderate to large increase in GDP growth. Currently it is in the mid 2% annualized range, while the trump plan could create a sustained growth of around 3.8-4.0% (which doesn't take into account higher inflation as a result of rapidly increasing deficits). That's a good growth rate, no one is arguing against that. But Laffer, is a tax and growth expert... NOT a budget deficit expert. His focus is on lower taxes and higher GDP growth. Not paying down the debt.

Trump has consistently shown he is a liberal, admitted he is a liberal, thought that the democrats handle the economy better with their policies, supported and financed liberals, proposed 5 trillion dollar tax hikes, and still to this day is in favor of universal healthcare.

A real plan for tax reform doesn't just lower rates and remove people from the roles. It does the following.

1)Simplifies.
2)Flattens.
3)Broadens.

The Trump plan partly accomplishes 1 of the 3. And Reverses the other 2.

I urge you, stay open minded and don't be a cynic. And whats the difference between a cynic and a skeptic? A skeptic doesn't believe something will happen, or is happening. A cynic, continues to not believe even after the evidence is presented. The evidence is clear... Trump is no conservative.

He..
-Support funding for Planned Parenthood.
-Supported largest tax hike in American History.
-Is against the flat-tax, and like progressive taxation.
-Believes the wealthy should be penalized for their hard work and success.
-Was against the Iraq war and removing Saddam.
-Is against reforming SS and Medicare.
-Is for Affirmative Action
-Has always been pro-choice, but suddenly "changed his views" as a candidate.
-Is for the assault weapons ban.
-wants longer wait periods to buy guns.
-doesn't believe that "supply side" economics (your boy Laffer's baby) works.
-Supports hate crime legislation.
-Is against free-trade.
-admits that he has "bought" politicians.
-believes in campaign finance reform, limiting free speech.
-believes vaccines cause autism.
-is against missle defense.
-says he may run as independent, rather than lose as a republican.
-believes in the sanctity of marriage so much, he has married 3 times himself!
-john mccain not a hero, because he was captured.

and again, the list goes on.

The worst part of it all. Donald Trump left the republican party in 1999, became a Democrat in 2001 (based upon his registration), and remained one throughout the presidency of George Bush.... only switching back in late 2009.


My questions to you is........

How on earth could you support someone for president, who is a RINO? What DO you like about this man? And how do you feel about a tax plan that increases the deficit about trillions and removes 73 million people from responsiblity for our nation?

I don't know, it just seems I get a little incredulous when somebody tries to tell me my perception of the life I have lived is errant. I saw the economy turn around in dramatic fashion. And I saw the momentum of those days wane over the past 3 decades, so I know it works. None the less, later in my post I will address a few of your litany of grudges and assumptions.

I saw money dry up, and inflation go up. I saw the jobs disappear, as Armco Steel, Novamont, the Nickel Plant, National Mines and others laid off thousands. And I remember clearly the foreboding overtones of an economy which was teetering on the threshold of a depression. I can remember the dread of opening up my electricity bill knowing it would be astronomic, perhaps even unpayable. Gasoline, groceries, it seemed as if our world was coming off it's hinges. Everybody was concerned and rightly so. Many of my friends and acquaintances lost their homes owing to the skyrocketing rise of flexible or adjustable interest rates.

In the general sense Laffer, during his interview regarding any perceived lack of a point by point analysis of Trump's plan, was somewhat put off by the scoffing nature of that charge and challenged it's validity. In other words it was just an intellectual sounding expulsion of gas by yet another self absorbed news anchor. Now, read this very carefully. Your analysis is the work product of others, not your own, and I don't agree with it. I urge you to take into consideration that I was in the work force during the era of which this discussion is relevant. Therefore, though I may be able to find mountains of dissenting opinion and scraped up numbers to refute what I saw with my own eyes, I remain none the less unconverted.


Now for a couple of your points. NOBODY has paid down the debt since the Clinton Administration. And the experts can't even agree on the true level of debt from those days. At any rate, Trump believes his policies will inspire growth which in turn, will generate an increase of revenue. And as I understand it, that is exactly what turned this land around in the Reagan years. It's easy for Trump's detractors to find things they think will negate his plan's success, prior to having tried them. After watching in horror as the debt has soared, reportedly to reach at least 12 Trillion dollars in increases during the Obama tenure, it takes a lot to scare me. And frankly, the status quo you seem to be advocating for has historically, been a no-go much less the Keynesian Circus recently come to town. Not revenue neutral? Well if things stay as they are, with a profoundly politicized Federal Reserve, an out of control EPA, an ever mounting and impossible to comply with avalanche of unprofitable regulations inundating the industry and energy fields, and with a monster affectionately named the Affordable Care Act stalking the economy with an appetite suitable for the consumption of most of the nation's wealth, maybe so.

I do not agree that 2 percent is an adequate growth rate. The labor participation rate is 63 percent. I find it laughable to read your efforts to justify current economic indicators and using this administration's doctored data to do so. You must understand that the 5.something unemployment rate release last reporting cycle is rubbish, right?

On to the most indefensible of your surmise. No matter what we do, health care is a permanent fixture on the US budgetary landscape. Nobody, and I mean nobody is attempting to say we're just going to scrap it, move on and to the devil with those who are presently so bound. Republicans are promising to repeal and "fix" healthcare and obviously the Dems are told what they think by their leadership. So let's face it, if we have to deal with thing and we do, let's try to get the darn thing as right and sensible as we can. And not that they have been exactly ringing the bell lately, but there will be a number of good Republican legislators for Trump to work with should he be elected. Things would have to be much better but in any case, health care ala government bureaucracy is with us to stay.

But, in getting right to it, I can support Trump because figuratively speaking, I have seen the Republicans inexplicable cowardice in the face of the enemy. And they ALWAYS retreat, every last time. From where I sit, the nation is in an inevitable slide into anonymity. I mean, Ted Cruz speaks openly about the way Boehner and McConnell fight to fund Obama's policy shenanigans and that in direct contravention to the will of the people. Again, in saying that, I do not prefer Trump over Cruz. I'm just saying Trump is 30-something and Cruz is at 10% in the polls and the shadows are getting a bit long.

If I thought Trump would rule by edict in the manner of present company, I would not support him. Or if I thought he secretly supported abortion on demand, or if I thought he was a pro-gay agendist. But, here is the bottom line. What I would like to happen will likely not be forthcoming. The country is likely too far gone for that, so, what have we got left? Frankly IMHO, at minimum the top ten Republican candidates would be far better than what we have now. My concern and my fear is that somehow Hil-lie-ry will pull out of her trouble, gain the inevitable nomination and the takers will vote her into office because she like Obama before her, will have promised them the moon.

What I like about Trump is that he is not a novice, ideologue, socialist. He understands on the secular level how America is supposed to work, and I believe he wants to restore some measure of sanity from that perspective. And lastly for this post anyway, I will say this. The Republicans live in fear of the press, Trump at least, will deal with them in a fashion that I believe will command some respect. But, it is time for all good men to get real, and come to the aid of their country. I cannot speak for what will happen during the process in which Republicans put forth their eventual nominee, or who he will be. I do hope he is not a RINO, and for the moment I reject the notion that Trump is.

Count me in among those who are glad to see you back.

[ronald reagan]

RealThing,

Thank you for the long reply and addressing a few of the points I made. I've always enjoyed reading your thoughts, and have found that you respectfully reply with at least a fact or two to back up your ideas. Now... Let me respond in the same manner.

Trump is a RINO. Republicans don't donate tens of thousands of dollars to democrats and give them front row seating at their wedding, as well as make statements like, "Democrats grow the economy better." "Hillary has been an exceptional Senator." "On Healthcare, I agree with democrats." Every view I made a point about in my previous post, is a liberal view. Trump held/holds them.

Listen... If you want to get into a Trump said, and trump believes debate... I promise you, it'd be best if you just stayed quiet. Besides the last few months of his life, he has been a liberal -- and in fact, very liberal.

Healthcare is absolutely a part of American life and the federal government. Trump however wants to increase this role with universal healthcare. He felt Obamacare didn't go far enough. He supports the universal care that is offered in canada and great Britain. .

As far as his tax plan is concerned: Yes, its definitely a Reagan Style, and Laffer supported plan. But there hasn't been a conservative economist yet able to show the numbers as being neutral or increasing revenue. All the projections show trillions of dollars in new debt. Because the fact is, just as you state that healthcare is forever a government entity... in all actuality, ALL programs are. How in the world can trump get the budget cuts needed to balance his tax plans revenue loss, when today dual republican majority can't even get a few hundred million cut from Planned Parenthood? Its not the president that is blocking it... Its the failure of the Senate. Do you really think that the trillions in revenue loss will be cut from the budget giving the state of Congress? Nothing will change in 2016 either. Except, democrats may take back over the senate and the house will lose a few seats for republicans.

Reagan said, "The nearest thing to eternal life that we have seen -- is a government program." Trump will not reverse this course.

As far as Reagan's plan increasing revenue, yes it did. But not by much. When you factor in the inflation rate during his tenure, revenue increased by about 20% over 8 years. This was in part, because of his year after year tax increases in 82, 83, 84, and 85. This alone was about $150 billion in revenue. Taking that out of the picture, revenue increased by about 10%. Much less than spending did.

I don't have alot of time to spend on this post. But I feel like if you posted a few facts here and there, and not emotions, then posed some questions for me -- I'd be able to respond much better. Its difficult to respond to a post that has most of its 'facts' based upon 'feeling'. Give me some hardcore numbers, policies, and ideas... mixed with a few questions, and I'll help you see what Trump really is. A RINO at the very best. A liberal democrat at the worst.

[TheRealThing]

RealThing,

Thank you for the long reply and addressing a few of the points I made. I've always enjoyed reading your thoughts, and have found that you respectfully reply with at least a fact or two to back up your ideas. Now... Let me respond in the same manner.

Trump is a RINO. Republicans don't donate tens of thousands of dollars to democrats and give them front row seating at their wedding, as well as make statements like, "Democrats grow the economy better." "Hillary has been an exceptional Senator." "On Healthcare, I agree with democrats." Every view I made a point about in my previous post, is a liberal view. Trump held/holds them.

Listen... If you want to get into a Trump said, and trump believes debate... I promise you, it'd be best if you just stayed quiet. Besides the last few months of his life, he has been a liberal -- and in fact, very liberal.

Healthcare is absolutely a part of American life and the federal government. Trump however wants to increase this role with universal healthcare. He felt Obamacare didn't go far enough. He supports the universal care that is offered in canada and great Britain. .

As far as his tax plan is concerned: Yes, its definitely a Reagan Style, and Laffer supported plan. But there hasn't been a conservative economist yet able to show the numbers as being neutral or increasing revenue. All the projections show trillions of dollars in new debt. Because the fact is, just as you state that healthcare is forever a government entity... in all actuality, ALL programs are. How in the world can trump get the budget cuts needed to balance his tax plans revenue loss, when today dual republican majority can't even get a few hundred million cut from Planned Parenthood? Its not the president that is blocking it... Its the failure of the Senate. Do you really think that the trillions in revenue loss will be cut from the budget giving the state of Congress? Nothing will change in 2016 either. Except, democrats may take back over the senate and the house will lose a few seats for republicans.

Reagan said, "The nearest thing to eternal life that we have seen -- is a government program." Trump will not reverse this course.

As far as Reagan's plan increasing revenue, yes it did. But not by much. When you factor in the inflation rate during his tenure, revenue increased by about 20% over 8 years. This was in part, because of his year after year tax increases in 82, 83, 84, and 85. This alone was about $150 billion in revenue. Taking that out of the picture, revenue increased by about 10%. Much less than spending did.

I don't have alot of time to spend on this post. But I feel like if you posted a few facts here and there, and not emotions, then posed some questions for me -- I'd be able to respond much better. Its difficult to respond to a post that has most of its 'facts' based upon 'feeling'. Give me some hardcore numbers, policies, and ideas... mixed with a few questions, and I'll help you see what Trump really is. A RINO at the very best. A liberal democrat at the worst.

Well thanks very much for your thoughtful response it would seem that we mostly agree however, I am not much interested in asking you questions, as I have my own points of view on all of these matters. Nor am I interested in soliciting or entertaining a psychological profile from you on my behalf. And as I have made mention to previously but am not adverse to highlighting once more just for you, there is an abundance of material on-line regarding Reagan's Presidency. I disagree with much of it as in the case of Obama, who recently attempted to cast himself as a modern day Reagan in an attempt to justify the Iranian Nuke Deal. In fact, lefties across the board have been busy trying to turn our beloved Ronnie into one of their own for some time now. Not to mention an overall subversion of the traditional values upon which this nation was founded. I was there, and I saw what happened so I ain't buyin it.

At any rate let us cut through the fog just a bit. You can no more back up your assertions which basically state that Trump is a liberal in sheep's clothing waiting to jump out at the world at the inaugural, than I can to refute them. It would seem that you feel strongly in your contempt for him. However well that contempt may prove to be placed, I know he speaks extemporaneously much of the time and I think if he had as much to hide as you suggest, he'd have gaffed by now in epic fashion. I also know that Republican leadership has transformed to some degree to become a watered down version of the Democratic Party.

We live in the day of the paradox. Recent inroads achieved by the advancement of the liberal's socialist, anti-Christian agenda, is no doubt a serious matter. And yet Republicans, who no matter how articulately manage to frame the issues, still seem powerless to act. Therefore from the conservative's perspective Walt Kelly may have put it best when he wrote; "We have met the enemy and he is us." I keep hearing the pundits and anchors saying that America is tired of the gridlock in Congress and big government shenanigans and of course they are right. But, voters like not being lied to more than they despise the Potomac bob and weave. And that's why Trump is leading the polls. If you can figure out some way to get Republicans to quit equivocating, I'd be all for it. But for now, the biggest threat I can think of if the vote.

Trump is one of the few I can listen to and not come away with the taste of monkey puke in my mouth. The others being Cruz and to a somewhat lesser degree, Marco Rubio. The Republicans will put forth a nominee and we will choose between that nominee and whoever the Democrat turns out to be. I get one vote and I can tell you right now, if it comes down to Trump against any of the Dems, I will vote for Trump.

[TheRealThing]

(CNN)—"Donald Trump is once again alone at the top of the Republican field, according to the latest CNN/ORC Poll, with 36% of registered Republicans and Republican-leaning independents behind him, while his nearest competitor trails by 20 points"
http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/04/politics/d...-national/

The more the media rage on in their insistence that Trump is unfit for office, the more "the people" seem determined to make up their own minds. The left will not recognize they have been 'outed' until late in the night on Tuesday, November 8th, 2016. I mean, to try to say that global warming is responsible for the carnage in San Bernardino is absurd. Or in Trump's words, “one of the dumbest statements I've ever heard in politics.” In still other words, folks have had it with the distortions and getting 'told what they think' by the media and the DNC.

The silver lining to this poll is also steeped in irony. See, the media recognize they may have bet everything on the wrong horse, who knew she'd be under investigation by the FBI, right? And if recent developments are any indicator, (the White House was saying workplace violence, but FBI Director Jim Comey stepped up with courage and tabbed it terrorism anyway), Hillary may just be facing a little bit more an acute angle than was first supposed. None the less, if the Dems can't have the first seat, they darn well would not want Trump or Cruz. Both would govern with courage and conviction, therefore the lefties will do all they can to help a brother RINO along. Enter Marco Rubio. It is incredible to watch it all going down. Hill is fading and despite all the Rubio propping, Trump and Cruz (the silver lining) keep their ascent alive, while Rubio and the warmed over hash that constitutes the remainder of the field continues to fade right along with her.

[TheRealThing]

Now we have Lindsey Graham, Paul Ryan and other establishment Republicans, along with the remaining GOP Presidential candidates and all Democrats dog piling on Donald Trump. Why? Because he would temporarily suspend the mindless open door policy extended to the Syrian refugees and other Muslim entities, said mobs awaiting passage to the US being laced with ISIS adherents BTW. Those same Republicans were just lamenting our plight in having to endure a porous southern border, and supposedly the worry was Islamic Extremist infiltration. Now not so much huh?

Despite the propaganda, it certainly is not unconstitutional to deny benefits and privileges to foreign nationals. The US Constitution does not confer protection to people who are not US citizens. Especially those who have declared war on the United States. I mean, you gonna try and tell me that we did not seriously curtail immigration from the Axis Powers during WW2? :please:

[RunItUpTheGut]

Im finding it harder and harder to listen to anyone in the Republican party.
They are going absolutely nuts over this to the delight of Americans.

Now, they are really screwed as, just as we said, Trump and Cruz are 1-2, and its not close after that.

Jeb has plans to go after the other republicans now, staying away from Trump so that it can be a Trump vs. Bush race which he thinks he can win. I got new for Bush, the people have already spoken. It doesn't take a poll to figure out we are not voting for you. Not one time have you actually made strides in your campaign and it may be the worst run campaign ive ever laid eyes on.

The establishment is in melt down mode.
Asshats like Lindsey Graham and Rand Paul, even Fiorina and her non sense now, need to go home. Nobody is listening to you. This is the first time the media has no pull in an election. I cant ever remember a man doing so well by saying what the majority of Americans are thinking, and just as we all expected, it took an outsider to do it. He is playing the media like nobody ever has and they cant figure out why.

They are still under the belief that the man will falter, forgetting that we are no only mere weeks away from Iowa.

Sit back and watch the Rinos burn. Its quite lovely. Maybe before the election is over idiots like Graham, Paul, Mccain, Bush and Christie will go ahead and retire.

[RunItUpTheGut]

The media tried to spin it as Trump saying keep them all out. And that was it.
They failed to mention what his true plans are, which is what hes doing now.

[Demarcus ware]

So here's my question. I know Trump pledged to run as Republican as long as they treated him fairly, but with these GOP turning on him, do they not realize he could/would change to independent and just let it blow up in their face? He tweeted this same thing out earlier. Then of course, Bush all but dared him because he says, that would let Clinton just stroll right in the White House. I would hate to see that happen but I think if they continue, it could possibly happen.

[TheRealThing]

So here's my question. I know Trump pledged to run as Republican as long as they treated him fairly, but with these GOP turning on him, do they not realize he could/would change to independent and just let it blow up in their face? He tweeted this same thing out earlier. Then of course, Bush all but dared him because he says, that would let Clinton just stroll right in the White House. I would hate to see that happen but I think if they continue, it could possibly happen.

Did I not predict that Dems and Republicans would bare their fangs to Trump?

This February when Trump hands them their hats in Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina, they will finally have to shut up. Then shortly thereafter on February 23rd, Super Tuesday, eight more states vote and it will likely be over. In the meantime, we'll have to suffer through the stupidity of establishment politicians and the talking head groupies who get paid to idolize them for a living on national TV.

I would think that is what Trump is waiting for, though he has made his thinly veiled threat to run independent. And the fact that so many of the GOP have turned on him clearly demonstrates how many of them are RINO's. They and their Democrat brothers are obviously thicker than thieves. This explains why McConnell, Boehner and Ryan have worked so diligently to make Obama's to-do list a reality. And why once they win their reelection bids they completely forget about the concerns of their constituents. I have lost all respect for JEB BUSH, Lindsey Graham, Paul Ryan, Chris Christie and the rest of the GOP field. From my perspective only Ted Cruz has an ounce of integrity. As for the Congress in general, if out of 535 Congressional legislators, only 1 or 2 understands that ISIS forces trying to infiltrate US neighborhoods are not protected under the dictates of the US Constitution, it is a small wonder we're in the trouble we find ourselves.

Seriously, thanks to the obsession of Congress and the media, Trump is castigated and vilified far more than the Islamic extremists who dream of killing us all. At least he understands we need to be protected.

[TheRealThing]

Im finding it harder and harder to listen to anyone in the Republican party.
They are going absolutely nuts over this to the delight of Americans.

Now, they are really screwed as, just as we said, Trump and Cruz are 1-2, and its not close after that.

Jeb has plans to go after the other republicans now, staying away from Trump so that it can be a Trump vs. Bush race which he thinks he can win. I got new for Bush, the people have already spoken. It doesn't take a poll to figure out we are not voting for you. Not one time have you actually made strides in your campaign and it may be the worst run campaign ive ever laid eyes on.

The establishment is in melt down mode.
Asshats like Lindsey Graham and Rand Paul, even Fiorina and her non sense now, need to go home. Nobody is listening to you. This is the first time the media has no pull in an election. I cant ever remember a man doing so well by saying what the majority of Americans are thinking, and just as we all expected, it took an outsider to do it. He is playing the media like nobody ever has and they cant figure out why.

They are still under the belief that the man will falter, forgetting that we are no only mere weeks away from Iowa.

Sit back and watch the Rinos burn. Its quite lovely. Maybe before the election is over idiots like Graham, Paul, Mccain, Bush and Christie will go ahead and retire.

Amen bro. Everybody just needs to keep a cool head, and that includes Mr Trump IMO. The allegations and attacks are only going to intensify the closer we get to Feb 1st. But no matter what they say, it is we voters who hold the power. And you can bet I'll not be voting for no RINO.

[TheRealThing]

CORRECTION--^^

Sorry, March 1st is Super Tuesday and there will be 14 states voting at that time. Only Nevada votes on Feb 23rd.

[RunItUpTheGut]

I hope the attacks get worse.
His numbers go up every time that they do.

White Christians are still the number one voting block in this country and it seems a lot of people have forgotten that.

[TheRealThing]

^^ If you ask me, I would say Trump has it about right. Everybody and their brother are bashing Trump over his suggestion that we should hit the pause button on immigration. Meanwhile, Josh In-Earnest, and his boss are out insisting that the Syrian refugees will be vetted over a period of 18 to 24 months before they can come in.

Funny thing about that. I just heard House Homeland Security Chairman Mike McCaul say we had already received 2,000 refugees and we have no way to watch them. He also said the US Government has proof that ISIS combatants have already tried to infiltrate behind US borders by blending in with the refugee population. The administration is bringing in potential jehadis but, if you ask the muckety mucks in DC, Trump is supposedly the threat. :igiveup:

[RunItUpTheGut]

I heard two air force trained afghans have been "lost".

Funny I'm not seeing it on the news.

[Demarcus ware]

I heard two air force trained afghans have been "lost".

Funny I'm not seeing it on the news.

I seen that on WYMT earlier. They are missing i think in Georgia. LOL. They made a point to say that they had been screened prior to coming here. Guess that process needs some work. lol

[TheRealThing]

^^ LOL it needs work alright.

Europe is ate up with liberals, as is demonstrated by their teetering financial house of cards they call the Eurozone. Greece, Portugal, France, Italy, and others have all been in the news owing to the coming collapse of the Euro. At any rate, these countries have all lowered their guard where border security is concerned and as a result, there are thousands of immigrants living in the shadows. Nobody really knows who they are or where they are.

The Ivy League elitists in the US think all that is really hip and want America to be like our friends in Europe. Hence the wide open borders and blurring of the Constitution in order to extend the 'rights' meant only and exclusively for American citizens, to illegal immigrants. The concept of limiting illegal and legal immigration is certainly not un-American, and those who keep saying it is are just plain wrong. Or perhaps they are the ones who are un-American, and wish to see America diminished?

At any rate, not managing immigration, especially in time of war, is a form of lunacy which could only be espoused by the left, oh yeah and RINO's. Trump has only said that which all rational Americans are saying.

[WideRight05]

[Image: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-R_6H-...9/ewr1.jpg]

[Demarcus ware]

^^^^ nicker:

[Demarcus ware]

^^ LOL it needs work alright.

Europe is ate up with liberals, as is demonstrated by their teetering financial house of cards they call the Eurozone. Greece, Portugal, France, Italy, and others have all been in the news owing to the coming collapse of the Euro. At any rate, these countries have all lowered their guard where border security is concerned and as a result, there are thousands of immigrants living in the shadows. Nobody really knows who they are or where they are.

The Ivy League elitists in the US think all that is really hip and want America to be like our friends in Europe. Hence the wide open borders and blurring of the Constitution in order to extend the 'rights' meant only and exclusively for American citizens, to illegal immigrants. The concept of limiting illegal and legal immigration is certainly not un-American, and those who keep saying it is are just plain wrong. Or perhaps they are the ones who are un-American, and wish to see America diminished?

At any rate, not managing immigration, especially in time of war, is a form of lunacy which could only be espoused by the left, oh yeah and RINO's. Trump has only said that which all rational Americans are saying.

Didn't Jimmy Carter do this same thing? Limiting or banning Iran's immigrant's? Must be true because when i bring it up to the liberals screaming from rooftops about Trump's un-american plan i can actually hear them stutter thru the internet.

[RunItUpTheGut]

Every thing a liberal touches turns into down right garbage.

You can not have a liberal form of government and expect to succeed.
Because socialism doesn't work, and it is the backbone of a liberals agenda.

[TheRealThing]

Every thing a liberal touches turns into down right garbage.

You can not have a liberal form of government and expect to succeed.
Because socialism doesn't work, and it is the backbone of a liberals agenda.

LOL, they're all invertebrates Run. However, liberalism is what makes their slug trial so slippery!

[Demarcus ware]

ACLU Board member resigns for making a social media post saying he will shoot Trump supporters. So the board member is a liberal, mad about the CA attack, fights for civil liberties, but wants to shoot people that don't see things his way. Yep, seems like the liberal way too me.

[RunItUpTheGut]

^
The ACLU is a hate group and should be defined as one if they want others to be labeled that way. They should be torn apart and stomped on.