[AtlPirateFan]

This is ridiculously childish and wrong on so many levels.

I agree. It's comments like those that get these types of conversations into the realm of arguing and that is not where they need to go.

[Thrillex]

I agree. It's comments like those that get these types of conversations into the realm of arguing and that is not where they need to go.

I understand how it comes off, but it's a real situation, that happens every friday night across America. Type in "ACL God has plans for me" on Google. Prayer isn't going to prevent that injury from happening. It was the wrong cut, landed funny, etc.. Do I care if Bell County says a prayer, No, but like Granny said if a group of Muslims(Like in the Dearborn Football Team Documentary Film) visited Bell County, and asked to pray, I imagine some people would be offended.

[Elite Eagle]

IMO this is great!! Good to see prayer and God in these games and boys lives!

[Objective]

Easy Thrillex this tread needs to be treated with care and respect from both sides. AltPirateFan.....thanks for sharing your story with us. I sir enjoyed your point point of view and as for me don't worry about being alienated

[Granny Bear]

Morning Granny, it's Football season!

I know!! I'm sad because I no longer have any babies playing. Have adopted a few though!!

I think you more than most on here know what kind of person I am because we have had several off site interactions.

I know you to be a very intelligent and caring young man. I would be proud to be your mother or grandmother.


I will try to touch on your points quickly.

1. Right vs Wrong - This is always a hard thing to explain to those who are not an atheist. Most Christians feel they get their morals from the Bible but I don't believe that is necessarily true. I believe right and wrong are a part of us from birth. Take my children for example. My wife (who believes in God and prayer) and I came to the understanding long ago that for our marriage to work we would not ridicule each others beliefs, nor would we raise our children under either banner. Even at early ages they displayed the basic knowledge of right and wrong. They realize they need to treat others how they want to be treated based upon their interactions and emotions. It's been amazing to watch two children with hearts of gold develop in front of my eyes.

I would LOVE to see some recent pictures of them!!
Now would it be fair to say that their feelings of right and wrong depend on the reactions of mom and dad? In other words you and your wife qualify what their actions are just by being mom and dad.
Think about it.


2. Reconcile Spiritual with Reality - this subject I tried to be vague on in my first post because its the one spot that my atheism can get a little on the offensive side. I'll put it this way and hope it is at least slightly understood. I could not reconcile why it was so imperative for a God who loves everyone to only accept those who have been saved or that a Vengeful God who was supposedly omnipotent and infallible from the Old Testament became the loving God of the new testament, to me it made the God I believed in fallible and that is where I began to question things. (The elaboration on this would take paragraphs)

Believe it or not, I think I understand where you're going. I'm not going to delve in this any deeper either because it leads to denominationalism and theology. I don't think I would be able to type enough!

3. Judgmental Christians - I agree with you 100% on this one. It's the same on my side of the street. Angry attacking atheists give us a bad name and often get us a negative association. Just like ISIS and the 9/11 terrorists give Islam a bad name. All sides have their radicals and they give us all a bad rap.

I have no problem agreeing with this. I had Muslim friends who were explaining Ramadan to me. I was shocked!! Based on what they said to me, it was something that everybody would've benefitted from doing. In the end, they left their home because of community ill will. This couldn't have been more wrong.

I understand how it comes off, but it's a real situation, that happens every friday night across America. Type in "ACL God has plans for me" on Google. Prayer isn't going to prevent that injury from happening. It was the wrong cut, landed funny, etc.. Do I care if Bell County says a prayer, No, but like Granny said if a group of Muslims(Like in the Dearborn Football Team Documentary Film) visited Bell County, and asked to pray, I imagine some people would be offended.

And herein lay my point. It would offend a lot of Christian people, but it would not matter. We are forced to be accepting of anybody, anywhere, anytime, etc. However, if as a Christian group, WE asked to be accepted, then we usually get your kind of garbage.

I LOVE talking to AtlPirate.....he's informative without being snide or asinine.

[The Cross Movement]

Pray on Bell County!

[The Cross Movement]

I have prayed at midfield with Bell County and the team I was a coach on; I have heard the pre game prayer at Bell County. I am absolutely proud of Bell County for reflecting and standing up for the views of the majority of the people who live there. We live in a society that has allowed minority opinion's and views to silence the majority. The fact of the matter is faith in Jesus Christ is an integral part of the culture in Bell County. The people who live there should not have to divorce themselves from their faith in the public sphere because a handful out of thousands cannot ignore it or better yet be happy someone is asking God to protect the players and to help them play with class - they want a deeply imbedded tradition to be silenced. If I lived in a place where the majority of the county was Jewish I would not be offended if a Rabbi prayed for the safety of the players before a game. I would be mature enough not to expect an entire culture to change for me even though I am not Jewish. Asking for safety and sportsmanship is bad? Where is the offense? I believe the issue is conviction not offense. Many try to ignore that work of the Holy Spirit that tries to lead us to God. The more we can push God to the margins and silence His people, the more comfortable people can be leading their own lives apart from him because God is out of sight, out of mind but that is for another thread.

At the end of the day it just a short pre game prayer, not a halftime Billy Graham crusade. No one is asking anyone to make a decision for Christ, though that would be pretty neat Lol.

Faith in Jesus is becoming increasingly marginalized in our nation. We are rather to obey God than man when man's law's are at odd's with God's. While there is no law of God to pray to Him before a football game a culture should have the ability to do so when that faith and view is held by the majority of the people who reside there as long as those who are not of like minds with Christianity are not harassed or penalized for not sharing our same faith!

#PrayOnBellCounty!

[WideRight05]

So you Pray but Little Johnny still tears his ACL his senior season? What now? Because everyone prayed for it not to happen...but it did? Ohhhh but that's right God is teaching Johnny a lesson, That you can't be out there playing the sport you love, with your best friends, on a beautiful Friday Night because God has plans for you. God kinda seems selfish.

This is probably a waste of typing but I'm going to do it anyway. Nothing is ever promised to us in terms of how easy it's going to be. You see Christian schools that hold prayer, but still have winless seasons. You still see injuries. Jesus died a horrible death on the cross prior to resurrecting and the apostles all died horrible deaths. If little Johnny happens to tear his ACL, he still has the opportunity to be a shining light and an impact on many others.

Look at Isaiah Austin, for example, who had a potentially stellar NBA career ruined due to Marfan syndrome. There is no question that had to be extremely disappointing, but he is using his syndrome to have a positive impact on the lives of many and to help those who are in need. That is what Jesus emphasized - helping the poor, helping the sick, helping those in need.

Finally, to AtlPirateFan and ChipmunkSyndrome (Side note - It would be cool if we could "tag" someone in our posts on here like on Facebook) I read your posts and despite the difference in opinion, I don't think any less of either one of you for it nor do I hold the opinion of other atheists in a bad light because of the post above I just quoted.

[Thrillex]

[quote=Granny Bear]I have no problem agreeing with this. I had Muslim friends who were explaining Ramadan to me. I was shocked!! Based on what they said to me, it was something that everybody would've benefitted from doing. In the end, they left their home because of community ill will. This couldn't have been more wrong.


And herein lay my point. It would offend a lot of Christian people, but it would not matter. We are forced to be accepting of anybody, anywhere, anytime, etc. However, if as a Christian group, WE asked to be accepted, then we usually get your kind of garbage.

What Garbage? Think about a kid who might feel alienated, if he's not a believer during a team prayer. I was apart of many as a player, but If I stayed in my locker, they wouldn't think I was in it for the team. Like ATLCATFAN said, it's hard, people might look at you out of the corner of their eye. I mean nothing but good in this world, but I'm going to judged most of the time by the same people who say only God can judge them. I'm sure the people of Bell County are great, but we live in times where everyone now was A VOICE. Teenagers and Adults alike have information at their fingertips, times have changed, and you're now starting to see that in rural communities. 30 years ago we wouldn't of been able to have this type of conversation, or put our thoughts on a forum like this. Think about what will be at our fingertips in the next 30 years and with that ideology will change.



http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/heroes-v...ar-his-acl

[TheRealThing]

Morning Granny, it's Football season!

I think you more than most on here know what kind of person I am because we have had several off site interactions.

I will try to touch on your points quickly.

1. Right vs Wrong - This is always a hard thing to explain to those who are not an atheist. Most Christians feel they get their morals from the Bible but I don't believe that is necessarily true. I believe right and wrong are a part of us from birth. Take my children for example. My wife (who believes in God and prayer) and I came to the understanding long ago that for our marriage to work we would not ridicule each others beliefs, nor would we raise our children under either banner. Even at early ages they displayed the basic knowledge of right and wrong. They realize they need to treat others how they want to be treated based upon their interactions and emotions. It's been amazing to watch two children with hearts of gold develop in front of my eyes.

2. Reconcile Spiritual with Reality - this subject I tried to be vague on in my first post because its the one spot that my atheism can get a little on the offensive side. I'll put it this way and hope it is at least slightly understood. I could not reconcile why it was so imperative for a God who loves everyone to only accept those who have been saved or that a Vengeful God who was supposedly omnipotent and infallible from the Old Testament became the loving God of the new testament, to me it made the God I believed in fallible and that is where I began to question things. (The elaboration on this would take paragraphs)

3. Judgmental Christians - I agree with you 100% on this one. It's the same on my side of the street. Angry attacking atheists give us a bad name and often get us a negative association. Just like ISIS and the 9/11 terrorists give Islam a bad name. All sides have their radicals and they give us all a bad rap.

Respectfully--- let me see if I can say this right. God created man to basically share eternity with. However, owing to the perfect nature of God, that being one incapable of sin in any capacity, meant He needed to provide a mechanism by which man could choose to be with Him for that eternity. As God would have it, that seemingly small matter of choice then, bridges the great gulf between man and God and becomes the main reason we are here on earth. He chose us first, so that all that remains is for us to choose Him back. All any man really is in both the spiritual and secular senses, is the sum of his choices. In any event, God will allow a very orderly and respectful existence for those who deny Him during their lifetimes here on this earth. There will be blessing, love and many times happiness in spite of the gnawing of the truth within them.

The relationship we have with God is a mirror of the institution of marriage. The groom (Christ) chooses his bride (those who make up the Church). However, as is the case in this world, if the bride is reluctant or otherwise coerced into the relationship, it will not be a good one. Therefore, God is not willing to force anyone to be with Him. It must be our own choice. You would not have wanted to have resorted to threatening to do great harm to your prospective wife in order to force her to marry you. However, as is the relationship between the Church's act of choosing Jesus Christ, her act of choosing you back was sweet beyond words, and made your union a blessing for your entire lifetimes. The same is true with God, He will not force us, but in choosing to bow before Him, repenting of our wrongs and relying 100% on the finished work of Jesus on the cross, we are saved.

I said there is a mechanism by which all men choose, and that mechanism is sort of preloaded in the favor of men. Further, that mechanism consists of two bodies, for lack of a better term, of knowledge or states of awareness which are innate and undeniably discernible within us all. In fact, God has said that he put the very awareness of His existence within the breast of every last human on this earth; First point of inner knowledge is as follows---Romans 1:19-20 (KJV)
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

The verses above paraphrased then, say that everything that can be known of God is manifested in mankind, for He has shown Himself to them through His creation. Even His limitless power and the Godhead, so that they are without excuse to say otherwise. And then there is point number Two;
Ephesians 2:7-9 (KJV)
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

These verses state that man is saved by grace through faith, and that said faith is the gift of God and has nothing to do with works. So, we see that in each man and woman God has planted the foundational necessities of salvation from birth. The knowledge of His existence is part of our very being and as an added bonus, the gift of faith to believe and accept Him is ours to be had for the asking.

So you see, eternity is for those who choose to be there. God doesn't want preprogrammed robots with which to spend eternity. He wants people who choose to be with Him. That's all this earth is here for and it is the things of this earth which form the basis of the choice. The choice is between the goods, power and glitter of this world (that is all Satan had to tempt the Lord Jesus with at the end of His 40 day fast in the desert) or the world to come. Of course we are to live a grand life here as well. Family, and fame and fortune are equally as attainable for the Christian as the non-Christian. As I mentioned, eternal life with God is very much the same as the picture of marriage. Mutual choice between two parties.

And lastly, there is no difference in the Character of God in the Old Testament and the New Testament. The difference in the fact that His Son came to earth in the New Testament which, started the age of grace. Up until that time (the days of the Old Testament) men had to fulfill the law to the best of their ability and make a yearly sacrifice consisting of an animal sacrifice upon the burnt altar. The blood of the yearly sacrifice temporarily hid their sin from the eyes of God until such time as the Lord Jesus died His voluntary and substitutionary death on the cross. His shed blood then hides the sin of all men, those who lived before He came to earth and those who lived after, for all eternity.

If any man denies the deity of Christ and rejects Him, only then will God be forced to banish him from heaven to another place. There are varying degrees of suffering in Hell, depending on the life that was led. Ultimately the choice boils down to life forever with God, or eternal separation from Him. Those are the only two options and no man can dodge making the choice. You have on the one hand great reward, and you have on the other great disappointment and regret. But, make no mistake. God loves every one of us or He would have never allowed His only begotten Son to die for us.

[Trashtalker]

We're talking about kids that want to pray..... And someone sees something wrong with it? It's the kids game if you don't like it don't come!!!! Proud of the Bobcats...... #prayonbellcounty

[tvtimeout]

As long as kids are not forced to pray, every religion gets their say, go for it! Enjoy prayer time! I do everyday! Of course I only pray to my God, not everyone one of them. My question is what happens when a kid is disrespectful to a prayer... say Wiccan wants to pray is everyone o.k with that? I am not. I guess that I am a bigot but I will not bow down to any religion except my own. So why should I expect anyone else to do so? I guess I would not! That is just me though. I am a Baptist and proud of it, we were the first to push for the separation of church and state. Anyway, pray without stopping!

[Gitback Coach]

As long as kids are not forced to pray, every religion gets their say, go for it! Enjoy prayer time! I do everyday! Of course I only pray to my God, not everyone one of them. My question is what happens when a kid is disrespectful to a prayer... say Wiccan wants to pray is everyone o.k with that? I am not. I guess that I am a bigot but I will not bow down to any religion except my own. So why should I expect anyone else to do so? I guess I would not! That is just me though. I am a Baptist and proud of it, we were the first to push for the separation of church and state. Anyway, pray without stopping!

I'm a long-time HS football fan in southeastern KY, so obviously I've observed/endured my fair share of pre-game prayers over the years.

As a non-believer, I simply wait patiently for the spectacle to end so that we can all enjoy together what we actually came for. I don't remove my hat, I don't bow my head and I don't close my eyes. I just wait patiently and respectfully, just like I'm in line at the men's room.

To their credit, no "true believer" has ever harassed me about my behavior and really, why should they? All who are truly "washed in the blood" should have their heads down, with their eyes (fittingly) closed tightly. They never see me (either literally or figuratively).

Anyway, my own method of tolerance has worked for 40+ years now so maybe I can keep attending games on Log Mountain from time to time.

[pjdoug]

If you don't believe in hell, you can't go to hell....

there will be no atheists in hell.