[WideMiddle03]

I have plumbed on Federal jobs, But yes, there is some work for me in the commercial field. Have you ever heard of mechanical rooms? Boiler systems, and HVAC isn't plumber work. Or, maybe you haven't been on larger commercial jobs? But no, I don't work commercial a lot of times. The majority of my work is industrial. FTR, industrial is a much larger scale than you are used to, being a commercial guy. I'm sure being a small time commercial super, you have had plumbers under you, but there is whole big world out there that you aren't used to. It's ok though, the trade needs you small time commercial guys to do the small jobs. The important thing to remember is this, you are now drawing your measly Ashland carpenter pension, along with social security. I know many Ashland carpenters. I also know how much their pension amounts to.

youre drawing a govt check taker :lmao:

[TheRealVille]

youre drawing a govt check taker :lmao:

I work. You should try it, taker.

[WideMiddle03]

I work. You should try it, taker.

i told u i cant b/c my hand hurts da

[Hoot Gibson]

nicker: Now you get to pick the trend months? 56% to 52% over 3 months. :biglmao: Look at the big picture, moron. In post #60 you were just taking about May, lol. In May they went up 2 points.

Lying has become such a habit with you that it is getting difficult to correct all of them. I may have to hire an assistant.

The Quinnipiac poll, which is the one that I cited showed that Obama's job approval dropped during May, as the media finally began devoting more time to covering the growing number of Obama scandals. You tried to use the Rasmussen daily poll to argue that Obama's job approval ratings have been holding steady. I posted a graph of the Rasmussen daily polls, which clearly shows that there has been a downward trend, using the poll upon which you chose to make your case. If you cannot support your opinions with honest facts, why don't you just ignore the posts that contradict what you wish was true and focus on your few opinions that you can honestly support? :biglmao:

I think that you need to find a new pollster. Rasmussen had more good news this morning. Obama's approval numbers are down again. A two-point one day decline is pretty big for a daily poll that employs a three-day rolling average. Enjoy the ride down.

[INDENT]

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Sunday shows that 48% of Likely U.S. Voters approve of President Obama's job performance. Fifty-one percent (51%) now disapprove.

Today’s figures include 25% who Strongly Approve of the way Obama is performing as president and 40% who Strongly Disapprove. This gives him a Presidential Approval Index rating of -15....

[/INDENT]

[TheRealThing]

I have plumbed on Federal jobs, But yes, there is some work for me in the commercial field. Have you ever heard of mechanical rooms? Boiler systems, and HVAC isn't plumber work. Or, maybe you haven't been on larger commercial jobs? But no, I don't work commercial a lot of times. The majority of my work is industrial. FTR, industrial is a much larger scale than you are used to, being a commercial guy. I'm sure being a small time commercial super, you have had plumbers under you, but there is whole big world out there that you aren't used to. It's ok though, the trade needs you small time commercial guys to do the small jobs. The important thing to remember is this, you are now drawing your measly Ashland carpenter pension, along with social security. I know many Ashland carpenters. I also know how much their pension amounts to.

No, I'm not letting you get by with your standard baloney this time. You sure don't do any HVAC work, which is duct, air handlers, or large outdoor units. You might have been in on some piping associated with the larger chillers, which are normally associated with institutional settings such as hospitals, schools or perhaps some small manufacturing facilities. Boilers again, the same thing. Most of the time, plumbers do that stuff and operate under the license of the contractor who, normally employs somebody with a boiler and plumbing master and who runs the mechanical for either a general contractor or a sub. When necessary, these same entities call for some fitters or they try to get folks they know out to run the piping systems and set the equipment in the form of chillers, pumps and boilers.

In any event, my guess is that you have spent precious little time in any mechanical rooms. They don't have those on industrial jobs rather, entire units are designated for their mechanical application as it applies to process. You can quit trying to blow smoke up my pants leg, I know your desperate to feel superior to me but, that piece of self deception is of no interest to me.

[TheRealVille]

No, I'm not letting you get by with your standard baloney this time. You sure don't do any HVAC work, which is duct, air handlers, or large outdoor units. You might have been in on some piping associated with the larger chillers, which are normally associated with institutional settings such as hospitals, schools or perhaps some small manufacturing facilities. Boilers again, the same thing. Most of the time, plumbers do that stuff and operate under the license of the contractor who, normally employs somebody with a boiler and plumbing master and who runs the mechanical for either a general contractor or a sub. When necessary, these same entities call for some fitters or they try to get folks they know out to run the piping systems and set the equipment in the form of chillers, pumps and boilers.

In any event, my guess is that you have spent precious little time in any mechanical rooms. They don't have those on industrial jobs rather, entire units are designated for their mechanical application as it applies to process. You can quit trying to blow smoke up my pants leg, I know your desperate to feel superior to me but, that piece of self deception is of no interest to me.

We set the chiller units, install the VAV boxes and associated piping, we install the boilers and the associated piping. Plumbers might set the very small boilers, but usually they don't because they don't have a welder qualified to weld on boiler piping. You have no clue what you are talking about. I have been in crews that have set many mechanical room boilers, and chiller units. Plumbers never run the gas piping to boilers, unless they also weld, which most don't. I have runs lots of HVAC over the years. I worked in lots of mech rooms over the years. My skill set doesn't confine me to industrial. I have worked many large scale commercial jobs. What you don't know is that I worked maintenance for the UofM for quite a few years before I settled back down here. I also spent several years at Pfizer in Ann Arbor, and several at GM Hydromatic. Another thing you don't know is that I spent a big portion of my career working out of, and belonging to the local in Ann Arbor, MI. Yes, HVAC is my work scope. I have set many large rooftop units on different large scale jobs. I have even been in the crews that used the help of helicopters that brought them in and set them down for us. You can take that bologna and shove it back where the sun don't shine, because that's exactly where you pulled the info for the quoted post above. You don't one clue.

Plumber
The plumber installs, repairs, maintains, and services piping and plumbing systems and equipment used for drinking (potable) water distribution, sanitary storm water systems, and waste disposal. They also work on technical installations for Medical Gas, Hydronic in-floor heating, Solar Panels, Heat Pumps, Cross-Connection Control and many other systems necessary for the health and safety of the general public. Their work is found mostly in the new home building and renovation, high rises, and commercial construction sectors including hospitals schools and other institutional buildings.

Welder
A welder works in every area of the construction industry where metals and alloys are joined. They will work with plumbers, pipefitters, sprinkler fitters, and HVACR techs. Work will include installation, maintenance, and repair of all types of piping systems as well as join structural steel brackets and supports for such systems. A welder has to work in many different environments and in all types of positions. Welders will study blueprints, drawing, and specifications for the job and must measure, cut and weld using various welding methods and tools.

Steamfitter-Pipefitter
The steamfitter-pipefitter is a tradesperson with the knowledge and ability to layout, fabricate, assemble, install, maintain, and repair piping systems that transport all types of fluids, slurries and gas in the residential, commercial and industrial sectors. They are the only trade to specialize in planning, design, and installation of low- and high-pressure steam systems. Their work is diverse and in fields such as oil refineries, paper mills, nuclear power plants, manufacturing plants, and in the automotive industry. The systems that the steamfitter-pipefitter may work on are some of the highest pressure and temperature applications and require a thorough knowledge of scientific principles to complete this work safely.

http://www.ua.org

[TheRealVille]

Lying has become such a habit with you that it is getting difficult to correct all of them. I may have to hire an assistant.

The Quinnipiac poll, which is the one that I cited showed that Obama's job approval dropped during May, as the media finally began devoting more time to covering the growing number of Obama scandals. You tried to use the Rasmussen daily poll to argue that Obama's job approval ratings have been holding steady. I posted a graph of the Rasmussen daily polls, which clearly shows that there has been a downward trend, using the poll upon which you chose to make your case. If you cannot support your opinions with honest facts, why don't you just ignore the posts that contradict what you wish was true and focus on your few opinions that you can honestly support? :biglmao:

I think that you need to find a new pollster. Rasmussen had more good news this morning. Obama's approval numbers are down again. A two-point one day decline is pretty big for a daily poll that employs a three-day rolling average. Enjoy the ride down.

[INDENT][/INDENT]

You might need to quit going back and forth between approve, strongly approve, and strongly disapprove. It is getting you confused. Look at the link below and study it. It clearly shows in the " total approval" rating column that Obama has a fairly flat rating over a long period of time, a trend if you will. Now, if you want to use a couple of weeks as your trend version, you might have a point. As you know, a couple point swing over any period of time is very normal.





http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_c...ex_history

[TheRealThing]

For plumbers yea, but I'm not a plumber. I've never been a plumber, though they have some gravy work, on the new end.

Slip up or lie? We both know if I'd blundered into this territory you'd have gone on and on for who knows how long extolling how you had defrocked me as a sham.

I have plumbed on Federal jobs, But yes, there is some work for me in the commercial field. Have you ever heard of mechanical rooms? Boiler systems, and HVAC isn't plumber work. Or, maybe you haven't been on larger commercial jobs? But no, I don't work commercial a lot of times. The majority of my work is industrial. FTR, industrial is a much larger scale than you are used to, being a commercial guy. I'm sure being a small time commercial super, you have had plumbers under you, but there is whole big world out there that you aren't used to. It's ok though, the trade needs you small time commercial guys to do the small jobs. The important thing to remember is this, you are now drawing your measly Ashland carpenter pension, along with social security. I know many Ashland carpenters. I also know how much their pension amounts to.

And therein lies the key to your arrogance across the board. You believe that you are so rich nothing can touch you. You think yourself to be above the soon coming fray that those relegated to the ranks of 'common' humanity will suffer due to lack of riches. That's why you're not worried about everything from ObamaCare to world economic collapse, because of your money. The scriptures clearly state that global economic chaos and ruin will destroy the wealth of all alive in that day. With the economies of somewhere around 200 countries, presently on the verge of bankruptcy and officially listed as being in crisis status, it won't matter what anybody has when those dominos begin to fall. Whether a fortune or a pittance, when money becomes worthless, it will be worthless no matter in whose hand it is grasped. I've tried to explain that to you but, that is where you have chosen to place your trust.

You haven't the first clue what I have, or how I live. Regardless, your personal attacks mean less than nothing to me. You're just one more liberal voice repeating the falsehoods provided to you by those who do your thinking for you.

Regarless of your protestations to the contrary, I already gave you your due when I conceded that the big pipe, chillers and boilers get set by fitters but, I qualified that by saying that only on the grandest scale is that the case. Because only the largest systems call for units that big. Still, once the big pipe runs are done, PLUMBERS run chill water piping, reheat piping and set coils, fitters never do that kind of work. Fitters don't grace the mechanical rooms in many settings for sure, and if you did it while working as a maintenance worker that is outside normal union shop practice. Travelers don't get a lot of this kind of work because it always goes to local hands who are in good sted with the BA. Even in the case of the larger facilities, much of the pipe used in chiller work was a prefabricated grooved pipe system designed by the architect, built and shipped in for installation by a subcontractor. Most commercial work 95% at least, isn't on the scale of a major car manufacturer such as Toyota and GM.

As to Variable Air Volume boxes, they are within the licensed purview of the the duct benders, not pipe fitters. Fitters don't do duct work.

I doubted you had done that kind of work. By your own admission, your association with commercial work was far from this valley. And since I know many of the guys who actually do it around here, I knew you didn't. I still say you tend to try to overlap the jurisdictional trade boundaries that exist in the field. I even mentioned once that I had never seen a fitter do plumber work and you 'liked' the post as if you were one of the exceptions to that rule. Many of the plumbers I know can weld and often do boiler and chiller work under whoever's license the job was approved by state.

And finally, by the job description you posted, even you have to admit when it comes down to it. All you really do is pipe. That's why one rarely (if ever) sees a fitter who is knowledgeable enough to be a superintendent. If that causes you some level of discomfort all I can say is you picked your career field.

[Hoot Gibson]

You might need to quit going back and forth between approve, strongly approve, and strongly disapprove. It is getting you confused. Look at the link below and study it. It clearly shows in the " total approval" rating column that Obama has a fairly flat rating over a long period of time, a trend if you will. Now, if you want to use a couple of weeks as your trend version, you might have a point. As you know, a couple point swing over any period of time is very normal.





http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_c...ex_history

Continue lying, RV - it's not getting you anywhere. I listened to a few minutes of the Rush Limbaugh highlights from last week. Guess what? He cited the Rasmussen poll as the first indication that Obama's popularity is slipping. Imagine that! You are claiming that the same poll that Rush is touting actually does not show what it shows - and that was before today's two-point drop. You are a shameless liar who cannot admit when he is wrong.

[vector]

http://www.examiner.com/article/rasmusse...ally-wrong

so Obama is doing pretty good in the Rasmussen polls considering it is a right wing poll which there daily poll has his job approval rating at 48% disapproval at 51% not bad for a right wing poll


http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_c...cking_poll

[Hoot Gibson]

http://www.examiner.com/article/rasmusse...ally-wrong

so Obama is doing pretty good in the Rasmussen polls considering it is a right wing poll which there daily poll has his job approval rating at 48% disapproval at 51% not bad for a right wing poll


http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_c...cking_poll

That "right wing poll" had Obama's approval rating at 56 percent as recently as Feb. 13. If Obama does not start rolling some heads soon, his poll numbers will enter the free fall phase. My guess is that he is negotiating a deal with Holder that will result in him publicly tossing his Attorney General under the bus. Of course, Holder knows where too many skeletons are buried, so Obama will have to toss him a pretty big bone to go along and keep his mouth shut. Maybe a deal involving a secret blanket presidential pardon would do the trick - a get out of jail free card that would become public only if Holder finds a need for it.

[TheRealVille]

Slip up or lie? We both know if I'd blundered into this territory you'd have gone on and on for who knows how long extolling how you had defrocked me as a sham.






And therein lies the key to your arrogance across the board. You believe that you are so rich nothing can touch you. You think yourself to be above the soon coming fray that those relegated to the ranks of 'common' humanity will suffer due to lack of riches. That's why you're not worried about everything from ObamaCare to world economic collapse, because of your money. The scriptures clearly state that global economic chaos and ruin will destroy the wealth of all alive in that day. With the economies of somewhere around 200 countries, presently on the verge of bankruptcy and officially listed as being in crisis status, it won't matter what anybody has when those dominos begin to fall. Whether a fortune or a pittance, when money becomes worthless, it will be worthless no matter in whose hand it is grasped. I've tried to explain that to you but, that is where you have chosen to place your trust.

You haven't the first clue what I have, or how I live. Regardless, your personal attacks mean less than nothing to me. You're just one more liberal voice repeating the falsehoods provided to you by those who do your thinking for you.

Regarless of your protestations to the contrary, I already gave you your due when I conceded that the big pipe, chillers and boilers get set by fitters but, I qualified that by saying that only on the grandest scale is that the case. Because only the largest systems call for units that big. Still, once the big pipe runs are done, PLUMBERS run chill water piping, reheat piping and set coils, fitters never do that kind of work. Fitters don't grace the mechanical rooms in many settings for sure, and if you did it while working as a maintenance worker that is outside normal union shop practice. Travelers don't get a lot of this kind of work because it always goes to local hands who are in good sted with the BA. Even in the case of the larger facilities, much of the pipe used in chiller work was a prefabricated grooved pipe system designed by the architect, built and shipped in for installation by a subcontractor. Most commercial work 95% at least, isn't on the scale of a major car manufacturer such as Toyota and GM.

As to Variable Air Volume boxes, they are within the licensed purview of the the duct benders, not pipe fitters. Fitters don't do duct work.

I doubted you had done that kind of work. By your own admission, your association with commercial work was far from this valley. And since I know many of the guys who actually do it around here, I knew you didn't. I still say you tend to try to overlap the jurisdictional trade boundaries that exist in the field. I even mentioned once that I had never seen a fitter do plumber work and you 'liked' the post as if you were one of the exceptions to that rule. Many of the plumbers I know can weld and often do boiler and chiller work under whoever's license the job was approved by state.

And finally, by the job description you posted, even you have to admit when it comes down to it. All you really do is pipe. That's why one rarely (if ever) sees a fitter who is knowledgeable enough to be a superintendent. If that causes you some level of discomfort all I can say is you picked your career field.

What's your point? You don't have to be a plumber to have your HVAC license, or for that matter, a medical gas license. I have both. I have never had a plumbing license, but, I have worked for the plumbers in the mid 90's on federal projects, for which one doesn't, or least didn't then, have to have a plumbing license. I have never, ever, on this board claimed to be a plumber. But, I worked for the plumbers for several years on a new project in the VA hospital in AA, MI. There is no slip up. When you know the details of my work scope, maybe you might not look like a foolish idiot when you are discussing my line of work.

No, plumbers don't run the chill piping, the heat, or the reheat moron. Plumbers might, on very small work, but for the most part, that is fitter work. As to VAV boxes, that is NOT the work of the duct people. It is fitter work, and we install them in the duct after the sheet metal guys leave us a spot for them. There were tons of plumbers on the Federal prison in Martin county, and every single VAV box was set by, and piped by me and about 5 more fitters. That's not to say on some small jobs that you run, you gave our VAV work to sheet metal guys. The more you try to school me on MY work, the more of an idiot you show yourself to be. Like I said, my main work for the last few years is industrial, but I worked out, and belonged to Ann Arbor for many years. Most of their work is large scale commercial.

[TheRealVille]

Travelers don't get a lot of this kind of work because it always goes to local hands who are in good sted with the BA.

^ What don't you understand about me not being a traveler while working in Huntington, and up until 2007, in Ann Arbor, MI ? I am, and was, a local hand in both locals. Unlike you, the scope of my work has carried farther out than EKY.

[TheRealThing]

What's your point? (1) You don't have to be a plumber to have your HVAC license, or for that matter, (2) a medical gas license. I have both. I have never had a plumbing license, but, I have worked for the plumbers in the mid 90's on federal projects, for which one doesn't, or least didn't then, have to have a plumbing license. I have never, ever, on this board claimed to be a plumber. But, I worked for the plumbers for several years on a new project in the VA hospital in AA, MI. There is no slip up. When you know the details of my work scope, maybe you might not look like a foolish idiot when you are discussing my line of work.

(3) No, plumbers don't run the chill piping, the heat, or the reheat moron. Plumbers might, on very small work, but for the most part, that is fitter work. (4) As to VAV boxes, that is NOT the work of the duct people. It is fitter work, and we install them in the duct after the sheet metal guys leave us a spot for them. (5) There were tons of plumbers on the Federal prison in Martin county, and every single VAV box was set by, and piped by me and about 5 more fitters. That's not to say on some small jobs that you run, you gave our VAV work to sheet metal guys. The more you try to school me on MY work, the more of an idiot you show yourself to be. Like I said, my main work for the last few years is industrial, but (6) I worked out, and belonged to Ann Arbor for many years. Most of their work is large scale commercial.

(1) - Never heard of a plumber with a HVAC license

(2) - You sure you don't mean Med Gas Certification? Again, I never heard of a Med Gas license. At any rate, here is what the KY code book says;

815 KAR 20:195. Medical gas piping installations.
Section 2. Standards and Procedures.

(1) Installation standards. Except that Section 5.1.10.6.6, Branch Takeoffs, shall not be adopted nor enforced within the Commonwealth, a new medical gas piping installation or an addition to an existing medical gas piping system shall comply with the applicable provisions of NFPA 99C, Standard on Gas and Vacuum Systems, 2002 Edition.

(2) Permit required. A licensed master plumber shall make application for a permit to install medical gas piping prior to the installation. To obtain the permit, the master plumber shall:

(a) Pay a fee of thirty-five (35) dollars base permit for the medical gas system for each building;

(b) Pay a fee of five (5) dollars per opening; and

© Identify the person who shall perform the installation. The person making the installation shall be a certified medical gas installer as required by NFPA 99C as well as a licensed journeyman plumber.
(3) Supervision by the master. It shall be the responsibility of the licensed master plumber to ensure that the person doing the installation:


(3) Yeah, in this valley they do.

(4) I've seen a lot of bid packages come in from a lot of duct benders, every time VAV boxes are part of their bid.

(5) Again, this is always part of the duct package and is always sheet metal. If plumbers did it in Martin county it was likely by some fluke, and fitters don't run 3/4 copper that I've ever seen. Sounds like a jurisdictional dispute that got settled by the super or somebody left it out of their bid.

(6) I never doubted you were a traveler.

[TheRealVille]

(1) - Never heard of a plumber with a HVAC license

(2) - You sure you don't mean Med Gas Certification? Again, I never heard of a Med Gas license. At any rate, here is what the KY code book says;

815 KAR 20:195. Medical gas piping installations.
Section 2. Standards and Procedures.

(1) Installation standards. Except that Section 5.1.10.6.6, Branch Takeoffs, shall not be adopted nor enforced within the Commonwealth, a new medical gas piping installation or an addition to an existing medical gas piping system shall comply with the applicable provisions of NFPA 99C, Standard on Gas and Vacuum Systems, 2002 Edition.

(2) Permit required. A licensed master plumber shall make application for a permit to install medical gas piping prior to the installation. To obtain the permit, the master plumber shall:

(a) Pay a fee of thirty-five (35) dollars base permit for the medical gas system for each building;

(b) Pay a fee of five (5) dollars per opening; and

© Identify the person who shall perform the installation. The person making the installation shall be a certified medical gas installer as required by NFPA 99C as well as a licensed journeyman plumber.
(3) Supervision by the master. It shall be the responsibility of the licensed master plumber to ensure that the person doing the installation:


(3) Yeah, in this valley they do.

(4) I've seen a lot of bid packages come in from a lot of duct benders, every time VAV boxes are part of their bid.

(5) Again, this is always part of the duct package and is always sheet metal. If plumbers did it in Martin county it was likely by some fluke, and fitters don't run 3/4 copper that I've ever seen. Sounds like a jurisdictional dispute that got settled by the super or somebody left it out of their bid.

(6) I never doubted you were a traveler.

Did I not say I worked in, and was out of, Michigan for years? At the time I was up there you didn't have to be a plumber to run med gas. You probably still don't, I don't have a clue if it's changed up there or not. Kentucky code doesn't hold water in Michigan, btw. Call it what you want, med gas license or certification, you aren't allowed to run it without having it. I have ran miles of medical gas.

You don't have to be a plumber to run HVAC, I know. Fitters run a lot of copper. If you will notice, I never said plumbers run the VAV boxes in Martin county. I said the fitters did.

I don't care what your bid package says about VAV boxes, I know what the UA constitution says.

Like I said, when I was in Ann Arbor's local, I was a local hand. Most of the time, my work was up there. I stayed there for several years. When I transferred in to Huntington, I am a local hand in Huntington. When I worked in Ashland, I was a traveler. When I work in Lexington, I am a traveler.

You would be best served to not try to tell me about my line of work. You will end up looking more foolish the more you try. You can't read out of a Kentucky code book, because none of my med gas days were in KY. Again, unlike you, my skills can carry me outside of the Ashland area. Different states have different codes.


Now, if you want to talk driving nails, hanging sheet rock, building houses, installing metal studs, and forming for concrete pours, and driving piling, I'll concede that you know that skill better than I do, but you probably don't want to explain my trade to me, especially when you are having to look stuff up on the internet. :Thumbs: nicker:

[TheRealVille]

^ And to be honest, "in this valley" where you worked, around Ashland, fitters and plumbers are pretty interchangeable, because most of Ashland's fitters/welders have plumbing licenses also.

[TheRealVille]

Straight off the UA website on my info page, since you doubt me, TRT.


Medical Gas
certtype TYPE BEGIN
BRAZE BRAZE 07/02/2002
NFPA NFPA 10/12/2000

[TheRealThing]

Did I not say I worked in, and was out of, Michigan for years? At the time I was up there you didn't have to be a plumber to run med gas. Call it what you want, med gas license or certification, you aren't allowed to run it without having it. I have ran miles of medical gas.

You don't have to be a plumber to run HVAC, I know. Fitters run a lot of copper. If you will notice, I never said plumbers run the VAV boxes in Martin county. I said the fitters did.

I don't care what your bid package says about VAV boxes, I know what the UA constitution says.

Like I said, when I was in Ann Arbor's local, I was a local hand. Most of the time, my work was up there. I stayed there for several years. When I transferred in to Huntington, I am a local hand in Huntington. When I worked in Ashland, I was a traveler. When I work in Lexington, I am a traveler.



You would be best served to not try to tell me about my line of work. You will end up looking more foolish the more you try. You can't read out of a Kentucky code book, because none of my med gas days were in KY. Again, unlike you, my skills can carry me outside of the Ashland area. Different states have different codes.

As would you mine. I'd like to think I can back up what I say. I know what the KY Code Book says is way different from what you say, as well as area practice. As I have pointed out before, those of your ilk have taken to claiming victory as a matter of course. Even though in so doing, self deception must be taken to ever increasing extremes.

I looked up the UA Constitution just for kicks. This is the section listing all claims to work jurisdiction, didn't see VAV boxes.

1. All piping for plumbing, water, waste, floor
drains, drain grates, supply, leader, soil pipe, grease
traps, sewage and vent lines.
168
2. All piping for water filters, water softeners, water
meters and the setting of same.
3. All cold, hot and circulating water lines, piping
for house pumps, cellar drainers, ejectors, house
tanks, pressure tanks, swimming pools, ornamental
pools, display fountains, drinking fountains, aquariums,
plumbing fixtures and appliances, and the handling
and setting of the above mentioned equipment.
4. All water services from mains to buildings,
including water meters and water meter foundations.
5. All water mains from whatever source, including
branches and fire hydrants, etc.
6. All down spouts and drainage areas, soil pipe,
catch basins, manholes, drains, gravel basins, storm
water sewers, septic tanks, cesspools, water storage
tanks, etc.
7. All liquid soap piping, liquid soap tanks, soap
valves, and equipment in bath and washrooms, shower
stalls, etc.
8. All bathroom, toilet room and shower room
accessories, i.e. as towel racks, paper holders, glass
shelves, hooks, mirrors, cabinets, etc.
9. All lawn sprinkler work, including piping, fittings,
and lawn sprinkler heads.
l0. All sheet lead lining for X-ray rooms, fountains,
swimming pools or shower stalls, tanks or vats for all
purposes and for roof flashings in connection with the
pipe fitting industry.
11. All fire stand pipes, fire pumps, pressure and
storage tanks, valves, hose racks, fire hose, cabinets
and accessories, and all piping for sprinkler work of
every description.
169
12. All block tin coils, carbonic gas piping for soda
fountains and bars, etc.
13. All piping for railing work and racks of every
description, whether screwed or welded.
14. All piping for pneumatic vacuum cleaning systems
of every description.
15. All piping for hydraulic, vacuum, pneumatic,
air, water, steam, oil, or gas, used in connection with
railway cars, railway motor cars, and railway locomotives.
16. All marine piping, and all piping used in connection
with ship building and ship yards.
17. All power plant piping of every description.
18. The handling, assembling, and erecting of all
economizers, super-heaters, regardless of the mode or
method of making joints, hangers, and erection of
same.
19. All internal and external piping on boilers,
heaters, tanks and evaporators, water legs, water
backs and water grates, boiler compound equipment,
etc.
20. All soot blowers and soot collecting piping systems.
21. The setting, erecting, and piping for all smoke
consuming and smoke washing and regulating
devices.
22. The setting, erecting and piping of instruments,
measuring devices, thermostatic controls, gauge
boards, and other controls used in connection with
power, heating, refrigerating, air conditioning, manufacturing,
mining, and industrial work.
170
23. The setting and erecting of all boiler feeders,
water heaters, filters, water softeners, purifiers, condensate
equipment, pumps, condensers, coolers, and
all piping for same in power houses, distributing and
boosting stations, refrigeration, bottling, distilling,
and brewing plants, heating, ventilating and air-conditioning
systems.
24. All piping for artificial gases, natural gases, and
holders and equipment for same, chemicals, minerals
and by-products and refining of same, for any and all
purposes.
25. The setting and erecting of all underfeed stokers,
fuel burners, and piping, including gas, oil, power
fuel, hot and cold air piping, and all accessories and
parts of burners and stokers, etc.
26. All ash collecting and conveyor piping systems,
including all air washing and dust collecting piping
and equipment, accessories and appurtenances and
regulating devices, etc.
27. The setting and erection of all oil heaters, oil
coolers, storage and distribution tanks, transfer
pumps, and mixing devices, and piping thereto of
every description.
28. The setting, erecting and piping of all cooling
units, pumps, reclaiming systems, and appurtenances,
in connection with transformers, and piping to switches
of every description.
29. All fire extinguishing systems and piping,
whether by water, steam, gas, or chemical, fire alarm
piping, and control tubing, etc.
30. All piping for sterilizing, chemical treatment,
deodorizing, and all cleaning systems of every
description, and laundries for all purposes.
171
31. All piping for oil or gasoline tanks, gravity and
pressure lubricating and greasing systems, air and
hydraulic lifts, etc.
32. All piping for power or heating purposes, either
by water, air, steam, gas, oil, chemicals, or any other
method.
33. All piping, setting and hanging of all units and
fixtures for air-conditioning, cooling, heating, roof
cooling, refrigerating, ice making, humidifying, dehumidifying
and dehydrating by any method, and the
charging, testing, and servicing of all work after completion.
34. All pneumatic tube work, and all piping for carrying
systems by vacuum, compressed air, steam,
water, or any other method.
35. All piping to stoves, fire grates, blast and heating
furnaces, ovens, driers, heaters, oil burners, stokers,
and boilers and cooking utensils, etc. of every
description.
36. All piping in connection with central distributing
filtration treatment stations, boosting stations,
waste and sewage disposal plants, central chlorination
and chemical treatment work, and all underground
supply lines to cooling wells, suction basins, filter
basins, settling basins, and aeration basins.
37. All process piping for refining, manufacturing,
industrial, and shipping purposes of every character
and description.
38. All air piping of every description.
39. All temporary piping of every description in
connection with building and construction work,
excavating and underground construction.
172
40. The laying out and cutting of all holes, chases
and channels, the setting and erection of bolts, inserts,
stands, brackets, supports, sleeves, thimbles, hangers,
conduit and boxes, used in connection with the pipe
fitting industry.
41. The handling and setting of boilers, setting of
fronts, setting of soot blowers, and attaching of all
boiler trimmings.
42. All pipe transportation lines for gas, oil, gasoline,
fluids and liquids, water aqueducts, water lines,
and booster stations of every description.
43. All acetylene and arc welding, brazing, lead
burning, soldered and wiped joints, caulked joints,
expanded joints, rolled joints, or any other mode or
method of making joints in connection with the pipe
fitting industry.
44. Laying out, cutting, bending and fabricating of
all pipe work of every description, by whatever mode
or method.
45. All methods of stress relieving of all pipe joints
made by every mode or method.
46. The assembling and erecting of tanks, used for
mechanical, manufacturing or industrial purposes, to
be assembled with bolts, packed or welded joints.
47. The handling and using of all tools and equipment
that may be necessary for the erection and
installation of all work and materials used in the pipe
fitting industry.
48. The operation, maintenance, repairing, servicing
and dismantling of all work installed by journeymen
members of the United Association.
49. All piping for cataracts, cascades (i.e. artificial
water falls), make-up water fountain, captured waters,
173
water towers, cooling towers, and spray ponds used
for industrial, manufacturing, commercial, or for any
other purposes.
50. Piping herein specified means pipe made from
metal or any other material used for the purpose of transferring any liquid or gas.

[TheRealThing]

Straight off the UA website on my info page, since you doubt me, TRT.


Medical Gas
certtype TYPE BEGIN
BRAZE BRAZE 07/02/2002
NFPA NFPA 10/12/2000

If you say you ran med gas pipe in Ann Arbor I'm not in a position to dispute that. I do know what goes on in Ky though.

[TheRealThing]

^ And to be honest, "in this valley" where you worked, around Ashland, fitters and plumbers are pretty interchangeable, because most of Ashland's fitters/welders have plumbing licenses also.

I don't know about most I will give you that some certainly do.

[TheRealThing]

Hasta manana, RV.

[TheRealVille]

As would you mine. I'd like to think I can back up what I say. I know what the KY Code Book says is way different from what you say, as well as area practice. As I have pointed out before, those of your ilk have taken to claiming victory as a matter of course. Even though in so doing, self deception must be taken to ever increasing extremes.

I looked up the UA Constitution just for kicks. This is the section listing all claims to work jurisdiction, didn't see VAV boxes.

1. All piping for plumbing, water, waste, floor
drains, drain grates, supply, leader, soil pipe, grease
traps, sewage and vent lines.
168
2. All piping for water filters, water softeners, water
meters and the setting of same.
3. All cold, hot and circulating water lines, piping
for house pumps, cellar drainers, ejectors, house
tanks, pressure tanks, swimming pools, ornamental
pools, display fountains, drinking fountains, aquariums,
plumbing fixtures and appliances, and the handling
and setting of the above mentioned equipment.
4. All water services from mains to buildings,
including water meters and water meter foundations.
5. All water mains from whatever source, including
branches and fire hydrants, etc.
6. All down spouts and drainage areas, soil pipe,
catch basins, manholes, drains, gravel basins, storm
water sewers, septic tanks, cesspools, water storage
tanks, etc.
7. All liquid soap piping, liquid soap tanks, soap
valves, and equipment in bath and washrooms, shower
stalls, etc.
8. All bathroom, toilet room and shower room
accessories, i.e. as towel racks, paper holders, glass
shelves, hooks, mirrors, cabinets, etc.
9. All lawn sprinkler work, including piping, fittings,
and lawn sprinkler heads.
l0. All sheet lead lining for X-ray rooms, fountains,
swimming pools or shower stalls, tanks or vats for all
purposes and for roof flashings in connection with the
pipe fitting industry.
11. All fire stand pipes, fire pumps, pressure and
storage tanks, valves, hose racks, fire hose, cabinets
and accessories, and all piping for sprinkler work of
every description.
169
12. All block tin coils, carbonic gas piping for soda
fountains and bars, etc.
13. All piping for railing work and racks of every
description, whether screwed or welded.
14. All piping for pneumatic vacuum cleaning systems
of every description.
15. All piping for hydraulic, vacuum, pneumatic,
air, water, steam, oil, or gas, used in connection with
railway cars, railway motor cars, and railway locomotives.
16. All marine piping, and all piping used in connection
with ship building and ship yards.
17. All power plant piping of every description.
18. The handling, assembling, and erecting of all
economizers, super-heaters, regardless of the mode or
method of making joints, hangers, and erection of
same.
19. All internal and external piping on boilers,
heaters, tanks and evaporators, water legs, water
backs and water grates, boiler compound equipment,
etc.
20. All soot blowers and soot collecting piping systems.
21. The setting, erecting, and piping for all smoke
consuming and smoke washing and regulating
devices.
22. The setting, erecting and piping of instruments,
measuring devices, thermostatic controls, gauge
boards, and other controls used in connection with
power, heating, refrigerating, air conditioning, manufacturing,
mining, and industrial work.
170
23. The setting and erecting of all boiler feeders,
water heaters, filters, water softeners, purifiers, condensate
equipment, pumps, condensers, coolers, and
all piping for same in power houses, distributing and
boosting stations, refrigeration, bottling, distilling,
and brewing plants, heating, ventilating and air-conditioning
systems.
24. All piping for artificial gases, natural gases, and
holders and equipment for same, chemicals, minerals
and by-products and refining of same, for any and all
purposes.
25. The setting and erecting of all underfeed stokers,
fuel burners, and piping, including gas, oil, power
fuel, hot and cold air piping, and all accessories and
parts of burners and stokers, etc.
26. All ash collecting and conveyor piping systems,
including all air washing and dust collecting piping
and equipment, accessories and appurtenances and
regulating devices, etc.
27. The setting and erection of all oil heaters, oil
coolers, storage and distribution tanks, transfer
pumps, and mixing devices, and piping thereto of
every description.
28. The setting, erecting and piping of all cooling
units, pumps, reclaiming systems, and appurtenances,
in connection with transformers, and piping to switches
of every description.
29. All fire extinguishing systems and piping,
whether by water, steam, gas, or chemical, fire alarm
piping, and control tubing, etc.
30. All piping for sterilizing, chemical treatment,
deodorizing, and all cleaning systems of every
description, and laundries for all purposes.
171
31. All piping for oil or gasoline tanks, gravity and
pressure lubricating and greasing systems, air and
hydraulic lifts, etc.
32. All piping for power or heating purposes, either
by water, air, steam, gas, oil, chemicals, or any other
method.
33. All piping, setting and hanging of all units and
fixtures for air-conditioning, cooling, heating, roof
cooling, refrigerating, ice making, humidifying, dehumidifying
and dehydrating by any method, and the
charging, testing, and servicing of all work after completion.
34. All pneumatic tube work, and all piping for carrying
systems by vacuum, compressed air, steam,
water, or any other method.
35. All piping to stoves, fire grates, blast and heating
furnaces, ovens, driers, heaters, oil burners, stokers,
and boilers and cooking utensils, etc. of every
description.
36. All piping in connection with central distributing
filtration treatment stations, boosting stations,
waste and sewage disposal plants, central chlorination
and chemical treatment work, and all underground
supply lines to cooling wells, suction basins, filter
basins, settling basins, and aeration basins.
37. All process piping for refining, manufacturing,
industrial, and shipping purposes of every character
and description.
38. All air piping of every description.
39. All temporary piping of every description in
connection with building and construction work,
excavating and underground construction.
172
40. The laying out and cutting of all holes, chases
and channels, the setting and erection of bolts, inserts,
stands, brackets, supports, sleeves, thimbles, hangers,
conduit and boxes, used in connection with the pipe
fitting industry.
41. The handling and setting of boilers, setting of
fronts, setting of soot blowers, and attaching of all
boiler trimmings.
42. All pipe transportation lines for gas, oil, gasoline,
fluids and liquids, water aqueducts, water lines,
and booster stations of every description.
43. All acetylene and arc welding, brazing, lead
burning, soldered and wiped joints, caulked joints,
expanded joints, rolled joints, or any other mode or
method of making joints in connection with the pipe
fitting industry.
44. Laying out, cutting, bending and fabricating of
all pipe work of every description, by whatever mode
or method.
45. All methods of stress relieving of all pipe joints
made by every mode or method.
46. The assembling and erecting of tanks, used for
mechanical, manufacturing or industrial purposes, to
be assembled with bolts, packed or welded joints.
47. The handling and using of all tools and equipment
that may be necessary for the erection and
installation of all work and materials used in the pipe
fitting industry.
48. The operation, maintenance, repairing, servicing
and dismantling of all work installed by journeymen
members of the United Association.
49. All piping for cataracts, cascades (i.e. artificial
water falls), make-up water fountain, captured waters,
173
water towers, cooling towers, and spray ponds used
for industrial, manufacturing, commercial, or for any
other purposes.
50. Piping herein specified means pipe made from
metal or any other material used for the purpose of transferring any liquid or gas.

22, 23, and 33 is where the VAV boxes fall. Like I said, I will eat you alive when discussing my line of work. I have installed these many times.

[TheRealThing]

22, 23, and 33 is where the VAV boxes fall. Like I said, I will eat you alive when discussing my line of work. I have installed these many times.

LOL, fine then RV. Ductbenders do duct, plumbers do med gas and airconditioning equipment as is laid out in clear language in the UA constitution. There isn't a word about plumbers or fitters doing any duct work of which VAV boxes are clearly a part and they sure don't do it around here or anywhere else I ever worked. I already proved only journeyman plumbers are allowed to run med gas piping according to Kentucky code. I could care less about anything you have to say further on the matter, I was there and saw it all go down for four decades.

[TheRealVille]

LOL, fine then RV. Ductbenders do duct, plumbers do med gas and airconditioning equipment as is laid out in clear language in the UA constitution. There isn't a word about plumbers or fitters doing any duct work of which VAV boxes are clearly a part and they sure don't do it around here or anywhere else I ever worked. I already proved only journeyman plumbers are allowed to run med gas piping according to Kentucky code. I could care less about anything you have to say further on the matter, I was there and saw it all go down for four decades.

And as I have layed out, I ran med gas in MI, and installed Vav boxes in the fed pen at martin county, and Ann Arbor. I don't really care what you saw in 4 decades in your small work area. If you could care less, quit responding.

[TheRealThing]

And as I have layed out, I ran med gas in MI, and installed Vav boxes in the fed pen at martin county, and Ann Arbor. I don't really care what you saw in 4 decades in your small work area. If you could care less, quit responding.

Actually it is more of my not having communicated my ending thoughts on the matter very well. You may have found yourself of some big money jobs in times past as did the rest of your hourly brethren, I'm just not quite as impressed with that as you seem to be. The Kentucky Code book ain't exactly a right wing website and neither is the copy of the UA constitution I posted. Both disagree with your assertions. I'm good with the outcome of our discussion.

[TheRealThing]

Hoot, I apologize for highjacking the thread, your contribution was far more substantive and I diverted attention away from what you were saying.

[TheRealVille]

Hoot, I apologize for highjacking the thread, your contribution was far more substantive and I diverted attention away from what you were saying.

Why do you keep bringing up KY code? I explained several times that I ran med gas in MI., and their code didn't require a plumber to do it. I haven't ran one inch of med in KY. I am not in a KY local.

[vector]

Why do you keep bringing up KY code? I explained several times that I ran med gas in MI., and their code didn't require a plumber to do it. I haven't ran one inch of med in KY. I am not in a KY local.

that's what he and hoot do best spin baby spin

[TheRealThing]

Why do you keep bringing up KY code? I explained several times that I ran med gas in MI., and their code didn't require a plumber to do it. I haven't ran one inch of med in KY. I am not in a KY local.

Yeah, Michigan code requires a master plumber to do it or he has to supervise the flunkies under his charge, being ultimately responsible to make sure their work meets code requirements.

[TheRealThing]

And as I have layed out, I ran med gas in MI, and installed Vav boxes in the fed pen at martin county, and Ann Arbor. I don't really care what you saw in 4 decades in your small work area. If you could care less, quit responding.

Anybody can look these agreements up, except maybe vector.

STANDARD FORM OF
UNION AGREEMENT
(As Modified)
Sheet Metal, Roofing, Ventilating and Air Conditioning Contracting Divisions of the Construction Industry.
This Agreement, entered into this 1st day of June, 2009, by and between the Akron, Canton, Mansfield Roofing and Sheet Metal Contractors’ Association, Inc., dba East Central Ohio SMACNA whether represented by a Contractors’ Association or not, hereinafter referred to as the “Employer”, and Local Union No. 33 - Akron District of Sheet Metal Workers’ International Association, hereinafter referred to as the “Union”, having jurisdiction over Ashland, Carroll, Coshocton, Crawford, Holmes, Medina, Portage, Richland, Stark, Summit, Tuscarawas, and Wayne Counties in Ohio.
ARTICLE I
Scope of Work
Section 1: This Agreement covers the rates of pay and conditions of employment of all employees of the Employer engaged in, but not limited to, the a) manufacture, fabrication, assembling, handling, erection, installation, dismantling, conditioning, adjustment, alteration, repairing and servicing of all ferrous or nonferrous metal work and all other materials used in lieu thereof and of all HVAC systems, air-veyor systems, exhaust systems, and air handling systems regardless of material used, including the setting of all equipment and all reinforcements in connection therewith; (b) all lagging over insulation and all duct-lining; © testing, servicing, and balancing of all air-handling equipment and duct work; (d) the preparation of all shop and field sketches, whether manually drawn or computer assisted, used in fabrication and erection, including those taken from original architectural and engineering drawings or sketches, and (e) metal roofing; and (f) all other work included in the jurisdiction claims of Sheet Metal Workers’ International Association.

Section 2: Market Preservation and Recovery: With the rise of non-union competition and infringements by other craft unions, sheet metal workers’ and signatory contractors in recent years have suffered significant declines in the share of the market of work within the jurisdiction of the Sheet Metal Workers’ International Association. It is the intent of all parties of this Agreement to take strong measures to reverse these trends and provide for the long term health of the union employing industry, by making it mandatory that the signatory contractor exhaust all efforts for the purchase of all distribution of air products, specifically, but not limited to, VAV boxes, fan (powered or not), make up of air units, fans, air distribution devises, grills and diffusers, and assign them completely to the sheet metal workers’ employed by him.


I guarantee you the sheet metal workers think VAV boxes are theirs and like I said, they've put in every one of 'em on my jobs. I have to know this kind of information to keep from having trouble on the job. But, since you always like to argue about it like I never know anything as always, you force me to prove you wrong.