[SKINNYPIG]

Well, being a carpenter, it is obvious some things come slow to you, except driving a nail. It's nothing to be ashamed of, somebody has to do the labor of building a house. America needs them, especially now.

Of course, at 64, you are past your prime and probably can't get your "hammer up", and leave your wife alone while you "play" politics with your computer.

Why do you stoop to this type of garbage man? If you think it's funny, you're probably alone. If you think it's wit, you fall short. I just don't get it.

[TheRealThing]

Why do you stoop to this type of garbage man? If you think it's funny, you're probably alone. If you think it's wit, you fall short. I just don't get it.

Because it's all he's got. This kind of thing is typical of those with varying stages of borderline personality disorder. Hoot calls it circular logic. Whatever it is, he is firmly entrapped. No matter what the topic of debate is Bush will get bashed first and then it goes personal.

I figure it's some kind of identity crisis because he takes everything personal. At any rate, it's not hard to set him off.

[Wildcatk23]

IMO, you need to relax. Get yourself a nice drink, (not Kool Aid) and get yourself familiar with what really happened in 2007-2008. I went to the trouble to provide a link to that end. But first here's an appetizer; "The financial crisis of 2007–2008, also known as the Global Financial Crisis and 2008 financial crisis, is considered by many economists to be the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression of the 1930s. It resulted in the threat of total collapse of large financial institutions, the bailout of banks by national governments, and downturns in stock markets around the world. In many areas, the housing market also suffered, resulting in evictions, foreclosures and prolonged unemployment

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_c...E2%80%9308

The Bush administration and the American public were dealt a financial one-two punch which proved to be earth shaking in scope. First was 9/11 with over a 3 Trillion dollar price tag and the second was the global economic downturn referenced above. Neither of them were Bush's fault.

The bush administration was warned of a upcoming terrorist attack.

[Wildcatk23]

Why do you stoop to this type of garbage man? If you think it's funny, you're probably alone. If you think it's wit, you fall short. I just don't get it.

It's funny you only call out RV for the personal attacks.

[TheRealVille]

Why do you stoop to this type of garbage man? If you think it's funny, you're probably alone. If you think it's wit, you fall short. I just don't get it.

When they give smart ass comments, they get them in return. When I'm treated with respect, I give respect. I get tired of proving some things, just to have it twisted.

[TheRealVille]

IMO, you need to relax. Get yourself a nice drink, (not Kool Aid) and get yourself familiar with what really happened in 2007-2008. I went to the trouble to provide a link to that end. But first here's an appetizer; "The financial crisis of 2007–2008, also known as the Global Financial Crisis and 2008 financial crisis, is considered by many economists to be the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression of the 1930s. It resulted in the threat of total collapse of large financial institutions, the bailout of banks by national governments, and downturns in stock markets around the world. In many areas, the housing market also suffered, resulting in evictions, foreclosures and prolonged unemployment

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_c...E2%80%9308

The Bush administration and the American public were dealt a financial one-two punch which proved to be earth shaking in scope. First was 9/11 with over a 3 Trillion dollar price tag and the second was the global economic downturn referenced above. Neither of them were Bush's fault.

Wasn't this crisis still going on when Obama took office? Do you give him a "free ride" on it like you do Bush. We were still on a slide to obscurity when Obama took office. I know your guys game, "it's not Bush's fault about our country, but it is Obama's". nicker: Bottom line, with his lies, and crookedness, Bush basically destroyed this country, and whoever got office behind him was going to have to almost be a magician to turn it around. Obama has done that. Check Hoot's chart, and look at when the "brakes" were applied. Obama slowed the bleeding to an "almost stop" after only 6 months in office. As to your beloved Bush "serving his country", you might want to call former Texas legislator, Ben Barnes, and get his opinion. He helped him stay out of Vietnam.

[SKINNYPIG]

It's funny you only call out RV for the personal attacks.

Whats so funny about it? There's plenty of members that personally attack on here and I don't see the need to "call them out". The reason being is this...90% of the attackers are young and stupid. 5% are just hot heads. The other 5% just get caught up in the moment and say something they regret.

I don't think TRV is young and stupid, a hot head or just gets caught up in the moment.

TRV gets passionate when he debates/argues politics. He is very successful at staying his course, and even though I disagree with him 99% of the time I gotta say that I respect his persistence.

TRV has some cohorts on here that chime in from time to time, some of them even personally attack others and it doesnt bother me at all cause they are as mealy mouthed as they can be...so I see no need to "call them out".

IMO TRV is struggling with the fact that Obama is NOT turning out to be what was expected. I could be wrong but, when TRV admits Obama's shortcomings his personal attacks will decrease and he will gain respect accross the board. His cohorts don't have a chance. Ha!

[TheRealVille]

Whats so funny about it? There's plenty of members that personally attack on here and I don't see the need to "call them out". The reason being is this...90% of the attackers are young and stupid. 5% are just hot heads. The other 5% just get caught up in the moment and say something they regret.

I don't think TRV is young and stupid, a hot head or just gets caught up in the moment.

TRV gets passionate when he debates/argues politics. He is very successful at staying his course, and even though I disagree with him 99% of the time I gotta say that I respect his persistence.

TRV has some cohorts on here that chime in from time to time, some of them even personally attack others and it doesnt bother me at all cause they are as mealy mouthed as they can be...so I see no need to "call them out".

IMO TRV is struggling with the fact that Obama is NOT turning out to be what was expected. I could be wrong but, when TRV admits Obama's shortcomings his personal attacks will decrease and he will gain respect accross the board. His cohorts don't have a chance. Ha!

I know Obama has many short comings, but I get very frustrated when people call him out, and give the moron that is Bush a free ride, when he did the same thing, or worse. It kind of works both ways, why would people expect me to call Obama out, when they refused to call Bush out? TRT and Hoot act like Bush was a saint, and he was nothing short of a moron, crook, and liar(all proven), that brought this country to it's knees.

[PaintsvilleTigerfan]

I know Obama has many short comings, but I get very frustrated when people call him out, and give the moron that is Bush a free ride, when he did the same thing, or worse. It kind of works both ways, why would people expect me to call Obama out, when they refused to call Bush out? TRT and Hoot act like Bush was a saint, and he was nothing short of a moron, crook, and liar(all proven), that brought this country to it's knees.

We haven't had a good president in a long time. Bush was blamed for a lot he didn't do, but he did many bad things. Obama OTOH flat sucks at getting anything done, he blames the right for everything that goes wrong. Even Clinton didn't do that, Obama was no where near ready for the position he was elected to and it shows. Next time up no matter the party we need a true leader, one that will forget petty social issues and actually fix our country.

[TheRealThing]

Wasn't this crisis still going on when Obama took office? Do you give him a "free ride" on it like you do Bush. We were still on a slide to obscurity when Obama took office. I know your guys game, "it's not Bush's fault about our country, but it is Obama's". nicker: Bottom line, with his lies, and crookedness, Bush basically destroyed this country, and whoever got office behind him was going to have to almost be a magician to turn it around. Obama has done that. Check Hoot's chart, and look at when the "brakes" were applied. Obama slowed the bleeding to an "almost stop" after only 6 months in office. As to your beloved Bush "serving his country", you might want to call former Texas legislator, Ben Barnes, and get his opinion. He helped him stay out of Vietnam.

Yeah and where did you and Barack serve RV? When Obama took office the crisis was indeed ongoing. The difference is that Barack, like you, couldn't and can't open his mouth without blaming Bush for everything coming and going. He was not in any way responsible for the global downturn that set off the domino fall of 2007-2008. Just like now, as I have mentioned, the nearly 200 countries that are flirting with bankruptcy in crisis status, pose a significant threat to us in a greatly magnified replay.

I don't agree with Obama's fiscal philosophy. Yet my greatest disagreement centers around his desire to "fundamentally transform" this country. You welcome it, though I believe that transformation to be as much a threat to you and your family as it is mine. Ultimately those social changes he is so determined to bring on us will bring down judgment. I do believe that particular process to be prophetic and yet, it is still my responsibility to speak out against sin. I would do that whether you like it or not. I remember how things are supposed to work. If George W was responsible for "the hole" you like to talk about, I wouldn't defend him. There is more unbiased information in that one article I linked (by far) to exonerate W, than everything you have put up to challenge that view put together.

[TheRealThing]

It's funny you only call out RV for the personal attacks.

And it's really funny how a mod like you, always defends RV. You can't moderate from one side there 23. It's fine with me that you and vector sort of jump on RV's coat tails and give up the "yeah, what he saids" all the time. And reading your posts, I'm not saying your bias to the left is something you are trying in any way to cloak in faked objectivity.

I would submit that it's one thing to debate "current events" and it's something else again to continually call folks on here out as idiots, morons and liars. I can assure you, life experiences and the abundance of factual material available for research provides me with ample enough ammo so as to alleviate me of the need to lie to develop a point. All one needs to do to see how many members have been subjected to that attack, is to do a simple search and see who the offender/offenders are.

Far as I'm concerned things are fine, you guys provide a necessary basis for comparison.

[TheRealThing]

The bush administration was warned of a upcoming terrorist attack.

So what? Obama went to bed early during the last one.

[Wildcatk23]

So what? Obama went to bed early during the last one.

One caused thousands of deaths. But ah who cares its yo boy bush. No biggie.

[Wildcatk23]

And it's really funny how a mod like you, always defends RV. You can't moderate from one side there 23. It's fine with me that you and vector sort of jump on RV's coat tails and give up the "yeah, what he saids" all the time. And reading your posts, I'm not saying your bias to the left is something you are trying in any way to cloak in faked objectivity.

I would submit that it's one thing to debate "current events" and it's something else again to continually call folks on here out as idiots, morons and liars. I can assure you, life experiences and the abundance of factual material available for research provides me with ample enough ammo so as to alleviate me of the need to lie to develop a point. All one needs to do to see how many members have been subjected to that attack, is to do a simple search and see who the offender/offenders are.

Far as I'm concerned things are fine, you guys provide a necessary basis for comparison.

It is simple, You can look in this thread and see who the offenders are. Which was why i asked skinny why he didnt say anything to the guy on his side of the aisle who started it.

[TheRealVille]

And it's really funny how a mod like you, always defends RV. You can't moderate from one side there 23. It's fine with me that you and vector sort of jump on RV's coat tails and give up the "yeah, what he saids" all the time. And reading your posts, I'm not saying your bias to the left is something you are trying in any way to cloak in faked objectivity.

I would submit that it's one thing to debate "current events" and it's something else again to continually call folks on here out as idiots, morons and liars. I can assure you, life experiences and the abundance of factual material available for research provides me with ample enough ammo so as to alleviate me of the need to lie to develop a point. All one needs to do to see how many members have been subjected to that attack, is to do a simple search and see who the offender/offenders are.

Far as I'm concerned things are fine, you guys provide a necessary basis for comparison.

Your lies are in black and white, and proven, in black and white, on this board. If you don't want to be called a liar, don't lie. If you don't need to lie, then don't. It's a very simple concept. You lied about diplomat deaths, and when caught, twisted it to make it look like it was an "either/or" thing. That's fact, and searchable.

[TheRealThing]

Your lies are in black and white, and proven, in black and white, on this board. If you don't want to be called a liar, don't lie. If you don't need to lie, then don't. It's a very simple concept. You lied about diplomat deaths, and when caught, twisted it to make it look like it was an "either/or" thing. That's fact, and searchable.

Again, how many American deaths were there? And how many of those were diplomats? I just heard Deputy Chief of Mission Gregory Hicks refer to Christopher Stevens as a diplomat, not as ambassador. I suppose it hasn't occurred to you that your argument is based on semantics but, I've now pointed that out to you twice. BTW, Hicks is verified to be a loyal democrat.

The investigations running rampant on the Hill right now do not support your delusion very well. As a matter of fact, it is my concerns which are proven to have merit by those investigations. The media storm that surrounds those investigations doesn't do a thing to help your cause either. Call me a liar all you want, it is your best after all, but until events on the Hill change complexion somewhat, I wouldn't be crowing too loudly right now about it.

[TheRealThing]

It is simple, You can look in this thread and see who the offenders are. Which was why i asked skinny why he didnt say anything to the guy on his side of the aisle who started it.

And who was that?

[TheRealThing]

One caused thousands of deaths. But ah who cares its yo boy bush. No biggie.

Who said Bush is my boy? I would have liked for him to have acted on the intel. Just as I would have liked it if Bill Clinton would have had the nads to pull the trigger when the CIA called him out on the golf course and asked him for permission to take out Bin Laden in 1998.

[TheRealVille]

Again, how many American deaths were there? And how many of those were diplomats? I just heard Deputy Chief of Mission Gregory Hicks refer to Christopher Stevens as a diplomat, not as ambassador. I suppose it hasn't occurred to you that your argument is based on semantics but, I've now pointed that out to you twice. BTW, Hicks is verified to be a loyal democrat.

The investigations running rampant on the Hill right now do not support your delusion very well. As a matter of fact, it is my concerns which are proven to have merit by those investigations. The media storm that surrounds those investigations doesn't do a thing to help your cause either. Call me a liar all you want, it is your best after all, but until events on the Hill change complexion somewhat, I wouldn't be crowing too loudly right now about it.

The post is there. The point is, that you said "no American has been killed in diplomatic service in 30 years, prior to Benghazi". There had been American diplomats killed in the past 30 years, although none were ambassadors. But, they were American diplomats, nonetheless. Hence your lie. When the facts were pointed out to you, you just twisted it to an either/or thing.

2002-2006 - Karachi consulate attacks: three separate attacks killed 18 people (including an American diplomat) and injured 87.
2002 - Two Marines shot, one killed in Kuwait.
2003 - Riyadh Compound Bombings kill 9 Americans, among 35 others.
2003 - Three American diplomats are killed by a roadside bomb targeting their convoy in Gaza. Palestine Resistance Committees, an umbrella organization has taken responsibility for the attack."[2]
2003–present - Damascus terrorist attacks: American interests in Syria targeted by Islamists.
2004 - Civilians Nick Berg, Jack Hensley, and Eugene Armstrong kidnapped and beheaded in Iraq.
2004 - Paul Marshall Johnson, Jr, civilian working in Saudi Arabia, kidnapped and beheaded; five other Americans die in attacks in Saudi Arabia in 2004.
2007 - American embassy attacked in Athens, Greece.
2008 - John Granville, US diplomat, assassinated in Khartoum, Sudan

[TheRealThing]

The post is there. The point is, that you said "no American has been killed in diplomatic service in 30 years, prior to Benghazi". There had been American diplomats killed in the past 30 years, although none were ambassadors. But, they were American diplomats, nonetheless. Hence your lie. When the facts were pointed out to you, you just twisted it to an either/or thing.

And again, I and many others don't agree with you and Mother Jones on that. The diplomats do the diplomacy. The soldiers and other staffers certainly aren't considered diplomats. The fact still remains, as I looked down your list, I saw a lot of foreigners getting knocked off by other foreigners. Unfortunate as that is, Americans are the prime concern IMO.

You continually rant on about word twisting by others while you make a living on here doing that very thing yourself. If Americans died in embassy assaults or in diplomatic service while on assignment, you can post their names and I'll back down on being too broad with my statement. And, put your link up too.

[TheRealThing]

^Here ya go RV.

THE NEW YORK TIMES - "The ambassador, J. Christopher Stevens, was missing almost immediately after the start of an intense, four-hour firefight for control of the mission, and his body was not located until Wednesday morning at dawn, when he was found dead at a Benghazi hospital, American and Libyan officials said. It was the first time since 1979 that an American ambassador had died in a violent assault."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/13/world/...d=all&_r=0




AP - "Stevens was the first U.S. ambassador killed in the line of duty in 30 years."

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/american-...-over-film


I don't need to lie, though you obviously need to paint me out as a liar to win this debate.

[vector]

I still dont understand why Bushs name is still brought up today.

Were five years into Obamas presidency and the country is still doing poorly.
So much taking responsibility.

I bet there's a lot you don't understand

[TheRealVille]

^Here ya go RV.

THE NEW YORK TIMES - "The ambassador, J. Christopher Stevens, was missing almost immediately after the start of an intense, four-hour firefight for control of the mission, and his body was not located until Wednesday morning at dawn, when he was found dead at a Benghazi hospital, American and Libyan officials said. It was the first time since 1979 that an American ambassador had died in a violent assault."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/13/world/...d=all&_r=0




AP - "Stevens was the first U.S. ambassador killed in the line of duty in 30 years."

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/american-...-over-film


I don't need to lie, though you obviously need to paint me out as a liar to win this debate.

That wasn't what you said though. You said, "no American had been killed in diplomatic service in 30 years when those four were slain in Benghazi.". You didn't in your original statement, narrow it down to just ambassadors. Ambassadors aren't the only diplomats. American diplomats had been killed in diplomatic service more recently than 30 years. Had you said, "no ambassador had been killed in diplomatic service in 30 years, until Benghazi", you would have been correct. You didn't say that, you said no diplomat.


Here's your original quote: No mention of ambassador. Ambassadors aren't the only American diplomats.

There you go again. It had been 30 years since an American death had occurred in diplomatic service when those four were slain in Benghazi. Who really cares how many foreigners got blown up by car bombs during a foiled attack on one or our embassies, much less the embassies of other lands? You were trying to justify your boy and saying this is all very commonplace. It is anything but.

[vector]

IMO, you need to relax. Get yourself a nice drink, (not Kool Aid) and get yourself familiar with what really happened in 2007-2008. I went to the trouble to provide a link to that end. But first here's an appetizer; "The financial crisis of 2007–2008, also known as the Global Financial Crisis and 2008 financial crisis, is considered by many economists to be the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression of the 1930s. It resulted in the threat of total collapse of large financial institutions, the bailout of banks by national governments, and downturns in stock markets around the world. In many areas, the housing market also suffered, resulting in evictions, foreclosures and prolonged unemployment

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_c...E2%80%9308

The Bush administration and the American public were dealt a financial one-two punch which proved to be earth shaking in scope. First was 9/11 with over a 3 Trillion dollar price tag and the second was the global economic downturn referenced above. Neither of them were Bush's fault.

well the only thing we have to compare the mess obama inherited was the great depression and it took us 10 years and world war 2 to dig out of it so you just made my point

[vector]

And again, I and many others don't agree with you and Mother Jones on that. The diplomats do the diplomacy. The soldiers and other staffers certainly aren't considered diplomats. The fact still remains, as I looked down your list, I saw a lot of foreigners getting knocked off by other foreigners. Unfortunate as that is, Americans are the prime concern IMO.

You continually rant on about word twisting by others while you make a living on here doing that very thing yourself. If Americans died in embassy assaults or in diplomatic service while on assignment, you can post their names and I'll back down on being too broad with my statement. And, put your link up too.

there you go again if it isn't FAUX then it must be a lie

[TheRealThing]

That wasn't what you said though. You said, "no American had been killed in diplomatic service in 30 years, until Benghazi". You didn't in your original statement, narrow it down to just ambassadors. Ambassadors aren't the only diplomats. American diplomats had been killed in diplomatic service more recently than 30 years. Had you said, "no ambassador had been killed in diplomatic service, until Benghazi", you would have been correct. You didn't say that.

Whatever. You're so desperate to prevail in this matter. And it's the typical liberal diversion. Take one little statement that could be in any way ambiguous and make a mount Everest out of it. Stevens is dead and there is a big deal brewing up in DC about it. Hillary is on the spit too. I didn't make up any lies and those two links prove that beyond a reasonable protest to the contrary. You've learned your craft well and the bru ha-ha you created trying to focus attention on minutia and off of the big picture is demonstrative of how the whole process works in Washington. Conservatives shorten the reference down to the term 'character assassination' but, you've done a nice job showing folks how the process works. :Thumbs:

[TheRealThing]

That wasn't what you said though. You said, "no American had been killed in diplomatic service in 30 years when those four were slain in Benghazi.". You didn't in your original statement, narrow it down to just ambassadors. Ambassadors aren't the only diplomats. American diplomats had been killed in diplomatic service more recently than 30 years. Had you said, "no ambassador had been killed in diplomatic service in 30 years, until Benghazi", you would have been correct. You didn't say that, you said no diplomat.


Here's your original quote: No mention of ambassador. Ambassadors aren't the only American diplomats.

Yeah well, maybe that's just how you took it, or wanted to take it.

[TheRealVille]

And again, I and many others don't agree with you and Mother Jones on that. The diplomats do the diplomacy. The soldiers and other staffers certainly aren't considered diplomats. The fact still remains, as I looked down your list, I saw a lot of foreigners getting knocked off by other foreigners. Unfortunate as that is, Americans are the prime concern IMO.

You continually rant on about word twisting by others while you make a living on here doing that very thing yourself. If Americans died in embassy assaults or in diplomatic service while on assignment, you can post their names and I'll back down on being too broad with my statement. And, put your link up too.

You no doubt looked over a few diplomats that got killed also. I already did post names, you just continue to look over it. Also below is a link to us diplomat names abroad. You will notice that there are many diplomats, not just ambassadors.

"John Granville, US diplomat, assassinated in Khartoum, Sudan"

http://www.state.gov/s/cpr/rls/dpl/

[TheRealThing]

You no doubt looked over a few diplomats that got killed also. I already did post names, you just continue to look over it. Also below is a link to us diplomat names abroad. You will notice that there are many diplomats, not just ambassadors.

"John Granville, US diplomat, assassinated in Khartoum, Sudan"

http://www.state.gov/s/cpr/rls/dpl/

I saw where they were referred to as diplomats. I didn't see where the New York Times or the AP would agree with the assessment. Granville was out among the people on a what he called a dangerous assignment by himself with no protection. Giving radios out to folks so they could get news from sources other than their own oppressive government, could likely been viewed as subversive activity by a foreign government.

I didn't call you a liar, I just don't take all my cues from you. You go on line and find a view that refutes mine and then you take off on a foaming rant declaring me and others I might add, as liars. I posted not one but, two links exonerating me totally. Now, you want to admit that or not?

[TheRealVille]

I saw where they were referred to as diplomats. I didn't see where the New York Times or the AP would agree with the assessment. Granville was out among the people on a what he called a dangerous assignment by himself with no protection. Giving radios out to folks so they could get news from sources other than their own oppressive government, could likely been viewed as subversive activity by a foreign government.

I didn't call you a liar, I just don't take all my cues from you. You go on line and find a view that refutes mine and then you take off on a foaming rant declaring me and others I might add, as liars. I posted not one but, two links exonerating me totally. Now, you want to admit that or not?

I wouldn't call citing two news sources "exonerating" you. They appear to know no more about diplomats than you do. It doesn't make a damn what Granville was doing. He was an American diplomat, with diplomatic protection of all diplomats, killed in "less than 30 years prior to Benghazi".

Preface
This publication contains the names of the members of the diplomatic staffs of all missions and their spouses. Members of the diplomatic staff are the members of the staff of the mission having diplomatic rank. These persons, with the exception of those identified by asterisks, enjoy full immunity under provisions of the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations. Pertinent provisions of the Convention include the following:

Article 29
The person of a diplomatic agent shall be inviolable. He shall not be liable to any form of arrest or detention. The receiving State shall treat him with due respect and shall take all appropriate steps to prevent any attack on his person, freedom or dignity.

Article 31
A diplomatic agent shall enjoy immunity from the criminal jurisdiction of the receiving State. He shall also enjoy immunity from its civil and administrative jurisdiction, except in the case of:

(a) a real action relating to private immovable property situated in the territory of the receiving State, unless he holds it on behalf of the sending State for the purposes of the mission;

(b) an action relating to succession in which the diplomatic agent is involved as executor, administrator, heir or legatee as a private person and not on behalf of the sending State;

© an action relating to any professional or commercial activity exercised by the diplomatic agent in the receiving State outside of his official functions.

http://www.state.gov/s/cpr/rls/dpl/c57874.htm