[TheRealThing]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_...ate_change




http://content.usatoday.com/communities/...LaLlI4RrOE


http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-w...sensus.htm

I can go on and on, but you get the gist.

You can go on until you run out of websites that support the position of global warming. (now updated to the more hip 'climate change' mantra) Your's is not an informed position, you just line up with the liberals, and the liberals only have so many sites.

And you're right, I do get the gist, global warming is a hoax, and is unsubstantiated by proven science. Rather, it's a belief, and the data is contrived. As evidenced by admissions to that end in climatologists email logs.

[TheRealVille]

You can go on until you run out of websites that support the position of global warming. (now updated to the more hip 'climate change' mantra) Your's is not an informed position, you just line up with the liberals, and the liberals only have so many sites.

And you're right, I do get the gist, global warming is a hoax, and is unsubstantiated by proven science. Rather, it's a belief, and the data is contrived. As evidenced by admissions to that end in climatologists email logs.

Those few don't make up 90-95%.

[RunItUpTheGut]

I looked through the website, and throughout the year many have been issued. Would these 36 have something to do with not meeting water standards? Why would they issue many throughout the year, and deny these 36?
http://minepermits.ky.gov/Pages/PermittingActions.aspx

http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress.nsf...enDocument

For the 36 individual permits that are the subject of the hearings, EPA has been working with KDOW to collect and evaluate data on toxic metals, cyanide, phenols, specific conductance, and current biological health of the waters that receive discharges from the mines in an effort to work through the issues identified in the objections.

Problem is, they were holding up A LOT of mining and jobs, as well as holding them in there back pockets. Im all for mining the right way. Good companies can do this. But you cant break small companies by telling them to spend more money cleaning up then they make mining, when there is no danger of harm to begin with.

[RunItUpTheGut]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_...ate_change




http://content.usatoday.com/communities/...LaLlI4RrOE


http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-w...sensus.htm

I can go on and on, but you get the gist.

Not trying to stir the pot or anything, however, there are several Professors, and "clmiate experts" (if that exist) that claim, if anything, we are heading toward an ice age. History can tell you a lot, and according to a lot of people, were due for one, by over a 100,000 years.

Not trying to argue the facts of global warming, because in my opinion, nobody knows whats happening, meaning theres no proof, and shouldnt be discussed until there is.

[TheRealVille]

http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress.nsf...enDocument



Problem is, they were holding up A LOT of mining and jobs, as well as holding them in there back pockets. Im all for mining the right way. Good companies can do this. But you cant break small companies by telling them to spend more money cleaning up then they make mining, when there is no danger of harm to begin with.

My buddy, which is a coal man btw, might argue different with you. He just lost a house, and a destroyed lower part of his farm, to some shade tree company not reclaiming right, and then filing bankruptcy. A shell of a house is all that's left, and he didn't get a dime to reimburse him. I'd say he has well over a 150k in damages that he is eating.

[judgementday]

Not trying to stir the pot or anything, however, there are several Professors, and "clmiate experts" (if that exist) that claim, if anything, we are heading toward an ice age. History can tell you a lot, and according to a lot of people, were due for one, by over a 100,000 years.

Not trying to argue the facts of global warming, because in my opinion, nobody knows whats happening, meaning theres no proof, and shouldnt be discussed until there is.

This would be accurate. It is believed that we are currently between ice ages. However, with pollution, green houses gases, etc... we are speeding up the process including the next mass extinction.

[Old School]

[quote=TheRealVille]I looked through the website, and throughout the year many have been issued. Would these 36 have something to do with not meeting water standards? Why would they issue many throughout the year, and deny these 36?
http://minepermits.ky.gov/Pages/PermittingActions.aspx[/QUOTE

Shortly after taking office Obama instructed the EPA to review the Army Corps of Engineers approval of all 404 permits (dredge and fill) and NPDES permits (for water discharge off of a permitted area). Originally there were thirty some permits held up for the EPA's review, since then the list has grown into the hundreds, while only three or four permits have been approved by the EPA.
States like Kentucky and West Virginia are approving mining permits, that is not the problem, the problem is that the EPA is not issuing the 404 permits that are required to build ponds and construct hollow fills in jurisdictional waters.

[TheRealVille]

Not trying to stir the pot or anything, however, there are several Professors, and "clmiate experts" (if that exist) that claim, if anything, we are heading toward an ice age. History can tell you a lot, and according to a lot of people, were due for one, by over a 100,000 years.

Not trying to argue the facts of global warming, because in my opinion, nobody knows whats happening, meaning theres no proof, and shouldnt be discussed until there is.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/0...4T20120109
http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/0...hropocene/
http://theweek.com/article/index/223144/...ce-agenbsp
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/...ge-delayed
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/...e-age.html
http://www.technologyreview.com/article/...t-ice-age/

[TheRealThing]

This would be accurate. It is believed that we are currently between ice ages. However, with pollution, green houses gases, etc... we are speeding up the process including the next mass extinction.

I thought a giant meteorite or a speeding comet hit the Yucatan Peninsula and caused the only suspected mass extinction according to the evolutionary guru's?

"Most scientists agree that a large asteroid strike 65 million years ago ended the dinosaurs’ reign on Earth. Some think that a single strike did the trick, while others think it was multiple strikes and additional stresses that pushed the dinosaurs into extinction. New evidence from researchers at the University of Missouri-Columbia supports the single impact hypothesis. They found a single layer of impact-related material in the geologic record that exactly matched marine creatures known to be contemporaries of the dinosaurs. They didn’t find any other impact evidence above or below this layer, reducing the possibility of additional impacts."
http://www.universetoday.com/994/just-a-...dinosaurs/

Nobdy knows what happened. They don't even know within billions of years how old the earth really is.

[TheRealVille]

I thought a giant meteorite or a speeding comet hit the Yucatan Peninsula and caused the only suspected mass extinction according to the evolutionary guru's?

"Most scientists agree that a large asteroid strike 65 million years ago ended the dinosaurs’ reign on Earth. Some think that a single strike did the trick, while others think it was multiple strikes and additional stresses that pushed the dinosaurs into extinction. New evidence from researchers at the University of Missouri-Columbia supports the single impact hypothesis. They found a single layer of impact-related material in the geologic record that exactly matched marine creatures known to be contemporaries of the dinosaurs. They didn’t find any other impact evidence above or below this layer, reducing the possibility of additional impacts."
http://www.universetoday.com/994/just-a-...dinosaurs/

Nobdy knows what happened. They don't even know within billions of years how old the earth really is.

Of course, you think it's between 6-10 thousands years.

[TheRealThing]

Of course, you think it's between 6-10 thousands years.

Nobody knows how old the earth is except the One who spoke it into existence. That absolutely includes you.

[TheRealVille]

Nobody knows how old the earth is except the One who spoke it into existence. That absolutely includes you.

3.5 billion. I'll take scientists over you. Which one? I know as much as you, which isn't much, but I'll take the opinion of thew ones who study this. You can rely on Genesis.

[Hoot Gibson]

3.5 billion. I'll take scientists over you. Which one? I know as much as you, which isn't much, but I'll take the opinion of thew ones who study this.

:lmao: If you are going to go with the best scientific estimate of the Earth's age, then you need to check your facts. You are doing more to make TRT's case that nobody knows the actual age of the planet than he is. Scientists estimate the age of the Earth at about 4.54 billion years +/- 1%.

[TheRealVille]

:lmao: If you are going to go with the best scientific estimate of the Earth's age, then you need to check your facts. You are doing more to make TRT's case that nobody knows the actual age of the planet than he is. Scientists estimate the age of the Earth at about 4.54 billion years +/- 1%.

Yes, I mis spoke, you are correct. I have stated this age before, btw. I mis typed.

[Hoot Gibson]

Yes, I mis spoke, you are correct. I have stated this age before, btw. I mis typed.

I don't buy the +/-1% confidence interval myself. Scientists tend to overestimate their ability to make accurate estimates, IMO. That is what is wrong with the global warming theories - the theory came first and scientists got busy justifying it instead of testing it. Good science does not involve shouting down critics and suppressing data that does not support hypotheses. That is exactly what happened in the case of Michael Mann and his "hockey stick" graph and those who conspired with him to hide the truth.

[TheRealThing]

I don't buy the +/-1% confidence interval myself. Scientists tend to overestimate their ability to make accurate estimates, IMO. That is what is wrong with the global warming theories - the theory came first and scientists got busy justifying it instead of testing it. Good science does not involve shouting down critics and suppressing data that does not support hypotheses. That is exactly what happened in the case of Michael Mann and his "hockey stick" graph and those who conspired with him to hide the truth.

That is why they are so vunerable to criticism from without. In their case, there is something more to it than just truth seeking. It's more a case of chosing a side against the creationist view. As a result, their hypocrisy is more than transparent. Take the so-called documentaries for example. Computer generated worlds meant to convince folks they know far more than they actually do. Heck, I recently saw a documentary claiming there are real merpeople living out in the oceans of our planet right now. In such animations one is limited only by the fertility of his imagination.

In this case science has in part been reverse engineered. The premise being made long before a maneuvered investigative process was dreamed up in support. I am in favor of responsible stewardship of the planet, just not at the expense of civilization. We don't have any forms of energy to take the place of fossil fuels. They haven't even been imagined yet. But, we have demonstrated we can burn coal and gas cleanly enough to not adversely effect the environment. Real science is always beneficial and obviously some good has come of it. I think we are closer to being on the threshold of understanding than we are to crossing the finish line.

[RunItUpTheGut]

My buddy, which is a coal man btw, might argue different with you. He just lost a house, and a destroyed lower part of his farm, to some shade tree company not reclaiming right, and then filing bankruptcy. A shell of a house is all that's left, and he didn't get a dime to reimburse him. I'd say he has well over a 150k in damages that he is eating.

So, the company was at 100% fault, and yet he received no reimbursment?

Sounds like he needs a new attorney.

Im not saying your lying, i know nothing of what happened, but ive never heard of any companies getting away with damaging personal property.

[RunItUpTheGut]

This would be accurate. It is believed that we are currently between ice ages. However, with pollution, green houses gases, etc... we are speeding up the process including the next mass extinction.

For the first time, many people would probably believe a mass extenction may not be a bad thing. Live and be poor or die and not worry.....hmm.

[RunItUpTheGut]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/0...4T20120109
http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/0...hropocene/
http://theweek.com/article/index/223144/...ce-agenbsp
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/...ge-delayed
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/...e-age.html
http://www.technologyreview.com/article/...t-ice-age/

So by polluting the air, were actually putting off an ice age?
nicker: Sounds like the EPA should drop all of there regulations.


One thing is for certain, if an ice age did happen, we are no where near prepared for it and after freezing my ass off feeding horses and cattle tonight i believe its starting.

[TheRealVille]

So, the company was at 100% fault, and yet he received no reimbursment?

Sounds like he needs a new attorney.

Im not saying your lying, i know nothing of what happened, but ive never heard of any companies getting away with damaging personal property.

They filed bankruptcy. No, he hasn't gotten anything, yet. Some state guys, came and looked the property over, and I think they will eventually finish the reclaiming, but they won't do anything about the house that got flooded, and destroyed.

[judgementday]

I thought a giant meteorite or a speeding comet hit the Yucatan Peninsula and caused the only suspected mass extinction according to the evolutionary guru's?

"Most scientists agree that a large asteroid strike 65 million years ago ended the dinosaurs’ reign on Earth. Some think that a single strike did the trick, while others think it was multiple strikes and additional stresses that pushed the dinosaurs into extinction. New evidence from researchers at the University of Missouri-Columbia supports the single impact hypothesis. They found a single layer of impact-related material in the geologic record that exactly matched marine creatures known to be contemporaries of the dinosaurs. They didn’t find any other impact evidence above or below this layer, reducing the possibility of additional impacts."
http://www.universetoday.com/994/just-a-...dinosaurs/

Nobdy knows what happened. They don't even know within billions of years how old the earth really is.

There have been 5 mass extinctions over the history of the planet. The 5th one involved the dinosaurs. In 2010 40 scientists agreed that the asteroid which hit in the Yucatan caused the extinction based on the large amounts of iridium in that area.

If you have ever watched Ancient Aliens on the History Channel, the guy with crazy hair says that Aliens killed off the dinosaurs........nicker:

[TheRealThing]

There have been 5 mass extinctions over the history of the planet. The 5th one involved the dinosaurs. In 2010 40 scientists agreed that the asteroid which hit in the Yucatan caused the extinction based on the large amounts of iridium in that area.

If you have ever watched Ancient Aliens on the History Channel, the guy with crazy hair says that Aliens killed off the dinosaurs........nicker:

Yeah, the crazy haired guy is hillarious. My position on all this, is one of skepticism. No matter how impressive the graphs and timelines get we're still talking about educated guesses here. Science is used to justify and retrofit their positions, hindsight being 20/20 and all. The scientific community had already bought into the theory of evolution as a matter of choice. All these spinoffs of mass extinctions and all the details and timelines and the like, are born of man's imagination. And, with the backdrop of an aeons old earth generated by a big bang, anything seems plausable and homoginizes all the problems true science has raised into an oblivion of time where anything is possible. Here's what I'm saying. Once the leap of faith is made, (in this case we're saying there has been 5 mass extinctions) it becomes a scientifically doable proposition to justify that leap of faith with known science. Said science, by the way, being nothing short of profound. The only problem with all of it, which I freely admit is impressively replete in detail, is the reverse engineering aspect. Nobody knows in certainty what happened before recorded history. We have at bare minimum 6000 years of history laying behind us, and given that Katrina and Sandy were big storms, they hardly provide anything approaching proof of man made global warming. The climate of the past and the length of time of the past, are matters of wild eyed speculation. That being said, to say on the one hand that climate changes of the past involved billions of years but now we're staring at global sterilization in mere hundreds of years, is a little laughable to me

Books and writings like hieroglyphics and cuneiform have survived from the earliest known civilizations. To my knowledge, there is nothing suggested from these earliest records, other than the mention of drought conditions, that climate was ever an issue. The bible is known to contain records of over 5 thousand years of human history from the time of Noah to present. From creation to Noah is an unknown time frame and it is therefore very dificult to give anything resembling precise numbers of years for us to consider. That time is none the less much easier for us to take an educated guess about than the aeons of time suggested by evolution adherents. We know for example, that the Sumerian pictograms and the Assyrian-Babylonian cuneiform date back at least 3000 years BC.

To me the strata and geological layers containing fossilized life forms, suggest just as believably, that a flood caused one mass extinction, (in the fossil record to date there has never appeared even ONE transitory lifeform, and by the way, the theory rests on the species mutating through these transitional lifeforms to become more sophisticated, which is in direct contadiction to any known mutation science has ever observed, in that mutations have always had a degradeding affect) When asked why we find fossilized remains of clams and other shell fish on some of the highest mountain tops, the scientific community always runs home to momma and says "the earth is so old these mountains were once ocean beds, pushed up by seismic phenomena."