[Avery Bullock]

Is it just me or does anyone else agree that the games of the first round of the playoffs are a joke? It's a shame that teams like Williamsburg (I'm a Jacket fan so I get to list them first), Mayfield, Raceland, Bowling Green, Trinity and others have to risk injury to play these games. It's just as shameful to make teams like Jenkins, Allen Central, Caverna, Apollo and GRC act as cannon fodder in these mismatches.

If the Jackets were 4-6 and Jenkins was 9-1, I would see no point in loading up the bus and wasting gas money to drive to Jenkins to see our kids get their teeth knocked in. In most cases it's pointless and a waste of school funds that could be spent in any number of ways.

Some of you will say that the first round does produce some upsets and that's all well and good. I root for the underdog most of the time myself, but for every 8 seed Villanova that wins a national championship there are a dozen 1 or 2 seeds who crush every opponent in the tournament and cruise to the title.

Would anyone be willing to place a $100 bill on any of the five underdogs I mentioned? How about if I put up $1,000 against your $100? Any takers? In other words, does anybody have a $100 bill they want to lose for sure?

The system needs to be revamped. It would save time, money and most of all it would decrease the risk of injury to the kids.

[KState]

Swear this thread get's started every year! Doubt anything will ever change.

[knighted]

I understand where you are coming from, but if memory serves me still.....#4 seed Bourbon co. won the state title in 97 I think.

[EKUAlum05]

Your argument is a bit mis-construed. Instead of looking at the blowouts of the very best 1 seeds vs. over mtached 4 seeds...the crux of arguing about the necessity of First Round games is more about the 2/3 matchups and the occasional 1/4 upset.

Sure Belfry will slaughter Knott Central, Bowling Green will manhandle Apollo, and Mayfield will have their starters resting in the 2nd Qtr vs. Caverna. But, haven't all three of those teams essentially done the same thing to the rest of their district? Would they also not do the same thing to the 3 seeds of the opposing district as well?

These match-ups unfortunately will happen, but for each of those 1/4 match-ups you will also have:

4 Male vs. 1 Lafayette
4 Middlesboro vs. 1 Prestonsburg

Not to mention Games like these out of your 2/3 matchups with arguably (2) Top 15 teams squaring off in their class:

3 Cooper @ 2 Anderson County
3 Desales @ 2 Green County
3 Garrard County @ 2 Russell
3 Greenwood @ 2 Christian County

There have been several 3 seeds make deep playoff runs and even win State Titles,and every year entire Districts get swept. This alone makes the First Round necessary. Cooper HS is one of the top 15-20 overall teams in KY and 9-1 and a 3 seed due to a 3 way tie. They have a very legit shot at making a Title push and if your way rang true they would miss the playoffs all together for losing a single district game.

An argument that is much more logical is to only do 3 teams per district and reward the District Champion with a 1st Round Bye. Though 3 way ties for first are common, it is very rare to impossible to see a 4 way tie. Though there are quality 4 seeds, the general rule of thumb insists that a team "lost"their way into a 4 seed instead of being a victim of circumstance. Thus you can reward the 1 seeds and eliminate the majority of the 1st Round Blowouts.

[EKUAlum05]

I understand where you are coming from, but if memory serves me still.....#4 seed Bourbon co. won the state title in 97 I think.

It is a valid point, but at the same time to be fair it was 1997 which tells me:

A) That was 15 years ago, that makes that more the exception than the rulw
B) That was the old 4 Class system, had there been a 6 class system Bourbon more than likely would not have been a 4 seed.

[fancyfeet]

If you do away with the first round games. Teams like the 9-1 Cooper rated #5 in 5a would not be in the playoffs. they are the number 3 seed because of the tie breaking system.

[laker20]

Yes, 1st Round games are necessary. It's the only way to get to the 2nd Round.nicker:

But seriously, there's always a question on how big the field should be. Is 5-rounds too many? would 3 or 4 do the job? do we need 6 different champions?
Is the geographical district/regions really a fair way to do it? couldn't we just seed the top 16, 12, or 8 teams per class and then have bracket play? couldn't we take the winners of each class and have a playoff for 1 state champion? private vs. public? where does it start & where does it stop?

Look at 4A Region 3 this year.....with a smaller field you would have top 10 teams facing each other in the first round, while some regions don't have a #1 seed in the top 20.


IMO the current structure has flaws, as would any, but it assures that the most deserving team ends up with the title, even if we don't end up with the top two teams in the championship game.

[GetChili]

I like it, because it means another week of high school football. A Friday night without football just ain't right.

[Gitback Coach]

I never liked the old playoff system where only the district champ made the playoffs, but four teams from each district is even worse. Then we went to SIX classes and decided to retain the top-four district finishers format.

And that is how we got to the ridiculously watered-down system we now have.

Take the top 2 from each district, play the finals on Thanksgiving weekend, and call it a season.

[therealdealholyfield]

Didn't #1 Cooper loose to #4 Montgomery Co. last year?

[Jumper Dad]

1A Ludlow and Nicholas Co
2A Butler, DeSales, Lloyd Mem and Danville
3A Wayne, Powell and Lawerence Co
4A Owensboro, Spencer and Mercer
5A Greenwood, North Hardin and Montgomery Co
6A Seneca, Male, DuPont Manual and Boone Co (who BTW was 3 point from the state finals)

All won playoff games as a 3 or 4 seeds last year...I'd hated for any of those teams seasons to have ended without going to the playoffs because some people don't like the competition in the first round. If KHSAA sports are about the kids then how do you tell those 19 teams plus all of the others that were within a score or two of winning that they don't belong?

[mysonis55]

I will throw in another possible 1st round upset in there for your. I would not at all be surprised to see a fast, Fulton County team, go into Louisville and upset the #2 seed Holy Cross. That game could go either way.

[bac2369]

Any team can lose on any given night. Thats why these games are played..

[YNWA]

High school sports are about the kids that play the games, and I am pretty sure that the players at Jenkins, Knott Central, etc., would rather have the opportunity to get beat in the first round of the playoffs than to be sitting at home.

[mysonis55]

Well state Ynca. Anything we can do to give our kids a chance at something they may never have the opportunity to do after high school is worth any amount of money. Watch gridiron gang and look at what the sport offers to young men of all situations.

[pjdoug]

this is a silly post lol.why even play the regular season? just go straight to playoffs and dont even let the underdogs play.if you dont want to get injured dont play football.

[Cat Daddy]

I believe the KHSAA should go back to the four class system. Then allow the top two teams in each district to be eligible for the playoffs. This would shorten the season but the impact of winning your district or finishing second would be more significant. A team should earn a playoff spot instead of being handed one by the KHSAA. The playoffs are just too watered down with the six class system.

[64SUR]

I agree with you ynwa.and for you Avery bullock erved: by the :policeman:policeman:policeman.if the jackets was 4-6 and jenkins 9-1 don't use williamsburg as an example.they would be a lots of 4-6 teams wouldn't get to play this year if you was the boss.i'm sure jenkins not going to lay down an give us a win this sounds like runitupthegut if i'm wrong so be it.moke:

[MSU Eagle]

The good thing about these games is that it gives teams a chance to get healthy and get some extra practice and confidence going into the real playoffs.

[Avery Bullock]

I agree with you ynwa.and for you Avery bullock erved: by the :policeman:policeman:policeman.if the jackets was 4-6 and jenkins 9-1 don't use williamsburg as an example.they would be a lots of 4-6 teams wouldn't get to play this year if you was the boss.i'm sure jenkins not going to lay down an give us a win this sounds like runitupthegut if i'm wrong so be it.moke:

Dude, take your meds! Down, boy... DOWN!!

I needed a team to use as an example and just picked Williamsburg so no one else would be offended that I had used THEIR favorite team.

I'm sure Jenkins will come down and give the Jackets as good a game as they can but I don't think it will matter much. The Jackets will score my IQ and Jenkins will score yours.

The only sensible suggestion I've heard on this thread was made by EKUAlum05 who offered the idea of giving the #1 seed a first round bye and go ahead and play the 2 vs 3 game.

It seems that everybody makes the playoffs using the current system. All four teams in our district did. We may as well just do away with the classes and seed the teams alphabetically... Adair County vs. Woodford County, Allen Central vs. Williamsburg (already played that one), Allen County-Scottsville vs. Whitley County, etc.

[Hoot Gibson]

Dude, take your meds! Down, boy... DOWN!!

I needed a team to use as an example and just picked Williamsburg so no one else would be offended that I had used THEIR favorite team.

I'm sure Jenkins will come down and give the Jackets as good a game as they can but I don't think it will matter much. The Jackets will score my IQ and Jenkins will score yours.

The only sensible suggestion I've heard on this thread was made by EKUAlum05 who offered the idea of giving the #1 seed a first round bye and go ahead and play the 2 vs 3 game.

It seems that everybody makes the playoffs using the current system. All four teams in our district did. We may as well just do away with the classes and seed the teams alphabetically... Adair County vs. Woodford County, Allen Central vs. Williamsburg (already played that one), Allen County-Scottsville vs. Whitley County, etc.

How does allowing four teams per district into the playoffs make Kentucky football weaker. Indiana allows all teams into its playoff system and I don't think that many people would argue that the quality of Kentucky high school football is on the same level as Indiana's is.

The more experience that players get on the field, the better the players and teams will be after four years. Playoff experience, whether a team wins or loses, is often a springboard to greater success the following season.

It makes no sense to eliminate football games from the schedule. There are too many classes in Kentucky's system but not too many playoff games.

[Cat Daddy]

How does allowing four teams per district into the playoffs make Kentucky football weaker. Indiana allows all teams into its playoff system and I don't think that many people would argue that the quality of Kentucky high school football is on the same level as Indiana's is.

The more experience that players get on the field, the better the players and teams will be after four years. Playoff experience, whether a team wins or loses, is often a springboard to greater success the following season.

It makes no sense to eliminate football games from the schedule. There are too many classes in Kentucky's system but not too many playoff games.

What kind of experience are you talking about? I don't think a winless or a one win team can get any kind of positive experience getting beat fifty points with a running clock. If anything it destroys whatever confidence/momentum you may have going into the next year. There are some instances where a four seed can be competitive against a one seed but it doesn't happen very often. I don't think it weakens Kentucky high school football but it does water it down. If you are an elite team (#1 seed) playing a horrible team (#4 seed) what positives can your team gain with such a lopsided victory. What if your star player gets hurt in the first quarter of a game that will be a running clock after halftime. Basically it isn't a positive experience for either team. Why not allow the #1 seed to have a bye week if you are concerned about rest. A perfect example is Knott Co. vs Belfry. What in the world is either team going to gain out of this game? Nothing!!!

[Avery Bullock]

What kind of experience are you talking about? I don't think a winless or a one win team can get any kind of positive experience getting beat fifty points with a running clock. If anything it destroys whatever confidence/momentum you may have going into the next year. There are some instances where a four seed can be competitive against a one seed but it doesn't happen very often. I don't think it weakens Kentucky high school football but it does water it down. If you are an elite team (#1 seed) playing a horrible team (#4 seed) what positives can your team gain with such a lopsided victory. What if your star player gets hurt in the first quarter of a game that will be a running clock after halftime. Basically it isn't a positive experience for either team. Why not allow the #1 seed to have a bye week if you are concerned about rest. A perfect example is Knott Co. vs Belfry. What in the world is either team going to gain out of this game? Nothing!!!

Better example... Trinity vs GRC. What if, God forbid, one of Trinity's D-I prospect linemen (Heile, English or Warburg) breaks a leg or ruptures an ACL in this throw-away game? Then would it be worth it? By reading the posts on this thread, most of you would say, "Sure, it's worth ruining a kid's football career so another group of kids can play just one more game and get beaten by 50 points."

Play the games that mean something and do away with the 1 vs 4 matchups. It would give this year's #4 teams some incentive to try harder next year.

Someone mentioned Indiana's playoff system that allows all teams to enter the playoffs. Ridiculous! Contrast that with the Texas system. They have 5 classes with 1A being the smallest schools and 5A being the largest. Each class has two divisions, each division has 4 regions and each region has 32 districts. Each district has 6 or 8 teams. In class 4A and 5A, only the top 4 teams from each district make the playoffs. In 1A, 2A and 3A, only the top 3 teams make the playoffs.

Indiana says all teams make the playoffs. Texas says only about half the teams make it. Which state has better football? I don't know, but I DO know that "Friday Night Lights" and "Varsity Blues" weren't about teams from Fort Wayne or Muncie.:problem:

[Hoot Gibson]

What kind of experience are you talking about? I don't think a winless or a one win team can get any kind of positive experience getting beat fifty points with a running clock. If anything it destroys whatever confidence/momentum you may have going into the next year. There are some instances where a four seed can be competitive against a one seed but it doesn't happen very often. I don't think it weakens Kentucky high school football but it does water it down. If you are an elite team (#1 seed) playing a horrible team (#4 seed) what positives can your team gain with such a lopsided victory. What if your star player gets hurt in the first quarter of a game that will be a running clock after halftime. Basically it isn't a positive experience for either team. Why not allow the #1 seed to have a bye week if you are concerned about rest. A perfect example is Knott Co. vs Belfry. What in the world is either team going to gain out of this game? Nothing!!!

So at least four extra weeks of practice and at least four extra games over a four year period is worth nothing to the players involved? Are you serious?

[Hoot Gibson]

Better example... Trinity vs GRC. What if, God forbid, one of Trinity's D-I prospect linemen (Heile, English or Warburg) breaks a leg or ruptures an ACL in this throw-away game? Then would it be worth it? By reading the posts on this thread, most of you would say, "Sure, it's worth ruining a kid's football career so another group of kids can play just one more game and get beaten by 50 points."

Play the games that mean something and do away with the 1 vs 4 matchups. It would give this year's #4 teams some incentive to try harder next year.

Someone mentioned Indiana's playoff system that allows all teams to enter the playoffs. Ridiculous! Contrast that with the Texas system. They have 5 classes with 1A being the smallest schools and 5A being the largest. Each class has two divisions, each division has 4 regions and each region has 32 districts. Each district has 6 or 8 teams. In class 4A and 5A, only the top 4 teams from each district make the playoffs. In 1A, 2A and 3A, only the top 3 teams make the playoffs.

Indiana says all teams make the playoffs. Texas says only about half the teams make it. Which state has better football? I don't know, but I DO know that "Friday Night Lights" and "Varsity Blues" weren't about teams from Fort Wayne or Muncie.:problem:

The question is not whether Texas or Indiana has better football - Texas is one of the largest states in the country - the question is whether the Indiana system or Kentucky's system produces better players and teams. Granted Indiana is about 50 percent larger in population than Kentucky but it is clear that in any given year, there are far more competitive teams in each of Indiana's five classes than there are in Kentucky's six classes. In Indiana's Class 5A, for example, 9 different teams have won at least one state title over the past 20 years and 4 different teams have won the four most recent titles.

You are not going to convince me that the quality of Kentucky's high school football teams or players would be better by allowing them to play less football because the notion defies logic.

[laker20]

Take the current Laker Seniors playoff experience:

In 2009, as a 4 seed had to travel to Lone Oak (State Finalist) for the 1st round match up. The Lakers kept the game reasonable until a LO score just before half time. We went on to score 27 points against an undefeated team that had only allowed that many points to LexCath. The only other team to score that many points was Boyle Co who defeated Lone Oak 42-39 in double OT in the state championship game.

In 2010, as a 3 seed the Lakers went to Hop Central and defeated the 2 seed 29-7. In the second round we were hosted by ACS and had a very tight contest where ACS pulled away and won 24-15. ACS went on to the state Championship game and lost to Boyle Co 21-14.

Then in 2011, as a 2 seed (resulting from a 3-way tie-breaker), the heavily favored Lakers lost to a Mercer Co squad who came in with nothing to loose.

These four playoff games have provided the Lakers with the prospective that the seed # next to the name means nothing. It's one and done, and the first round games shape the remainder of the playoffs. Coming in as a 4-seed and a 3-seed they had opportunities to gauge themselves against the ultimate state runner ups. As a 2-seed the gained the experience that you can't overlook a weaker seeded team.

As far as injuries go, they could happen just as easily in week 1 as they could in week 11 or 12. You don't not play to avoid injuries as a D1 prospect, you play the game to become the D1 prospect. How many 4-seeds have college prospects? I'd think several, and the 1st round gives several kids the opportunity to be seen on a bigger stage against a quality opponent.

[cj2561]

if a team that much better then another team. they should blow the game open in the first half. so the starter wouldn't play the 2nd half.

it is like any game. if you let a team stay close, there is that possible in a upset.

[enknight84]

I never liked the old playoff system where only the district champ made the playoffs, but four teams from each district is even worse. Then we went to SIX classes and decided to retain the top-four district finishers format.

And that is how we got to the ridiculously watered-down system we now have.

Take the top 2 from each district, play the finals on Thanksgiving weekend, and call it a season.

Top two from each district works for me. But add one more regular season game so that all teams can play eleven games and leave the finals the first weekend of December. Also, go back to four classes. If you stay with four team format, make sure each district has at least 5 teams.

[T1up]

Your argument is a bit mis-construed. Instead of looking at the blowouts of the very best 1 seeds vs. over mtached 4 seeds...the crux of arguing about the necessity of First Round games is more about the 2/3 matchups and the occasional 1/4 upset.

Sure Belfry will slaughter Knott Central, Bowling Green will manhandle Apollo, and Mayfield will have their starters resting in the 2nd Qtr vs. Caverna. But, haven't all three of those teams essentially done the same thing to the rest of their district? Would they also not do the same thing to the 3 seeds of the opposing district as well?

These match-ups unfortunately will happen, but for each of those 1/4 match-ups you will also have:

4 Male vs. 1 Lafayette
4 Middlesboro vs. 1 Prestonsburg

Not to mention Games like these out of your 2/3 matchups with arguably (2) Top 15 teams squaring off in their class:

3 Cooper @ 2 Anderson County
3 Desales @ 2 Green County
3 Garrard County @ 2 Russell
3 Greenwood @ 2 Christian County

There have been several 3 seeds make deep playoff runs and even win State Titles,and every year entire Districts get swept. This alone makes the First Round necessary. Cooper HS is one of the top 15-20 overall teams in KY and 9-1 and a 3 seed due to a 3 way tie. They have a very legit shot at making a Title push and if your way rang true they would miss the playoffs all together for losing a single district game.

An argument that is much more logical is to only do 3 teams per district and reward the District Champion with a 1st Round Bye. Though 3 way ties for first are common, it is very rare to impossible to see a 4 way tie. Though there are quality 4 seeds, the general rule of thumb insists that a team "lost"their way into a 4 seed instead of being a victim of circumstance. Thus you can reward the 1 seeds and eliminate the majority of the 1st Round Blowouts.

I agree with you 100% first place should have a bye week and the #2 and 3's play each other. There should be some reward for finishing 1st

[zebra'seyes]

The reward is getting to play a lesser team at home. More games = mo $. Plus, any football on friday night is a good thing.