[smoking44s]

There is no restriction on a player playing on both teams as long as they do not play down .

[IAM22]

There are NO tryouts. Look at the registration form. Players are put on teams matched with players of like ability, experience and yes, talent. This guarantees more than adequate playing time for ALL players. In the Pee Wee system, if you were NOT a superstar or the son of a parent who patronized the head coach, you at best may get a token down or two. Winning, only winning and coaching ego's were the main motivators in that league. They can toss all the BS they want about development there, but too many kids are developed to ride the pine, to be complacent with no success, and to cheer on others at the cost of their own playing time. A players self esteem becomes a non-factor win a W is at risk.

I know there are no try outs, I was just hoping someone would come out and actually state what you posted. You are put on what ever team the coaches want, that is worse than try outs. So a talented new player to the program has no chance at being on the select team. Yes, it is a select team. You have select teams and then talk about it being about development. Don't forget all your coaches are daddy coaches that is a lot of patronizing.

[plantmanky]

I know there are no try outs, I was just hoping someone would come out and actually state what you posted. You are put on what ever team the coaches want, that is worse than try outs. So a talented new player to the program has no chance at being on the select team. Yes, it is a select team. You have select teams and then talk about it being about development. Don't forget all your coaches are daddy coaches that is a lot of patronizing.

Don't all coaches pick the kids that are on the team? Regardless of if there are tryouts or not. Don't coaches pick they best 11 to put out on the field at any given time?

[IAM22]

Don't all coaches pick the kids that are on the team? Regardless of if there are tryouts or not. Don't coaches pick they best 11 to put out on the field at any given time?

No. So your team cuts players or tells them they cannot play on the team? However you want to phrase it. How many other middle school teams limits their to about 25? High schools don't cut football players or select(try outs) for their teams but the Union team does.

[plantmanky]

No. So your team cuts players or tells them they cannot play on the team? However you want to phrase it. How many other middle school teams limits their to about 25? High schools don't cut football players or select(try outs) for their teams but the Union team does.

yes we do, we are capped at no more than 75 kids on our team, 6-8 grade. We have had to make cuts in years past.

If Union or anyone else wants to cap the number of kids on their team isnt that their right? I will grant you that in football in most cases teams do not cut kids, but in most other sports kids are cut, therefore coaches are selecting the kids on the team.

[Wildcat18]

So it's an AAU team? Most other sports do cut players. But those other sports also have other leagues they can join (Example being baseball. If a player is cut, they can still play Babe Ruth or Cal Ripken leagues...Basketball players can play Upward leagues or AAU) Are there other leagues that the cut football players in that area can play? If not, that's a shame. To some players, football is all they have. On some occasions, football is what keeps kids successful in the classroom. Without the pigskin, the motivation to get good grades would be eliminated for some. We take pride in our scout team here. Our bench players could beat the majority of our schedule, honestly. They are a VERY big part in our team success and we let them know that everyday.

[plantmanky]

good points Wildcat. Perhaps Im missing the true point of Iam22 posts as it seems we are discussion how/what Union does with their 75 kids they have for 7th and 8th grade. If they cap the teams at 25 per (and I have no idea what they do, just stating an example) then they have 75 kids for 7th and 8th grade. It seems as if they are allocating the kids where they see best and to get the most expericene for all. If they are taking the 75 kids, and having a stud 7th and a stud 8th, and the remainder kids into a different team to play other kids that are at their level what is the issue?

[Wildcat18]

I may have missed the latest topic in this section, I haven't read the entire thread. It's not a direct comment toward Union at all. I'm just stating how important the back-ups our to our team. We make them feel like a part of the team when we succeed. They are emphasized. I'm just glad that the kids who are cut there do get a chance to play on a team somewhere. That's what's important.

[jtsafety]

This is a big thread with a lot of veiled accusations that Union is skirting the rules. No one really posted any history of the organization. This is from a parent perspective who's son joined the first season. The team is only 2 yrs old. This is the first year in KYMSFA/NKYFL.

As previously stated, there is no middle school football programs in the Boone Co School District. The system has no intent to sponsor MS football at any time in the near future. The team was organized in 2010 as an alternate to Boone Co Pee Wee. Several dedicated parents/coaches worked out a deal with Ryle to start a feeder team for Ryle with the intent to teach the boys the Ryle football system and eventually compete in the KYMSFA. (thanks to BIG RED DADDY for posting the rule that basically allows the team to form/play in KYMSFA) It began with 33 6th and 7th graders as a trial. Any player in the Ryle High School district who wanted to join was accepted, including about 4 players who were refused entry into Boone Co PeeWee because they moved into the area right before school started. They lived in Union (Ryle district) had no place to go, Union said come on over.
In 2010 we played a JV type schedule with several NKY middle schools in Kenton and Campbell Co, a good traveling team from Dayton and a well respected private school in Cincy. With a tournament thrown in, the team ended 2010 at 13-3. The team was really good, blew out most of the NKY teams and no one wanted a rematch this season. Thanks to Cov Cath for stepping up this year.

Part of the appeal of the team last season was everyone played in every game, and not just blowouts. Almost no one played both ways all the time and the kids rotated in and out. It was great and attracted a lot of attention from parents with kids in BCPWFL due to what Smokin44's noted.

Switch to 2011. Union had what we'll call open enrollment for kids in the Ryle district in the 5th-8th grades. You had to verify where you lived, birth certs, physicals, etc... Looks like they had a ton of kids come out. So the coaches decided this year to break up into teams, compete in the KYMSFA and NKYFL since they had enough kids in 5th-6th and 7th/8th grades to field a team or two for each. This allows all the boys to compete at an appropriate experience level, learn the Ryle system, and get playing time. No one was cut or denied. The KYSMFA 7th/8th grade teams are mostly made up of players from last year combined with experienced kids coming over from BCPWFL. The NKYFL team is made of new kids to the team who didn't have the experience, didn't know the plays or are home schooled but intend to go to Ryle High School.(As I understand it.) All the coaches work to get all the players solid playing time, not bench time, compared to a lot of the teams we have played through the whole season who mostly played maybe 14 of 25 guys.

Doubt anyone noticed, but I believe every player from Union played at Farnsley on Sat. No one sat on the bench. How many other teams can say that? As I've said before, the Union teams really don't have "stars" either, even with the coaching parents. They play as a team.

I am not sure on the player Barrel mentions, but there must be a caveat somewhere. I would hate to see us kick a boy off simply for decisions his parents made on his behalf.

All the basic information on the team is on it's website at Union Raider Youth Football. Don't know if this helps/matters.

The guys volunteering and working to help the kids in our community who don't get the opportunity most kids get to play football, should be commended. If the team shut down tomorrow, the option would be to flood BCPWFL next season with 100 kids, 90% who would practice thier butts off 4 days a week and never take the field. Just a side note, too, BCPWFL is expensive. Figure $150 a season per player minimum, plus required volunteer time per team. Many parents have kids in both due to age, and it saves them money and time.

This is a good deal for our community. I understand the people at KYMSFA work hard also to be inclusive and encourage kids to play. I would hope those that have issues could be flexible enough to work with them to make sure that any teams like Union have an opportunity to play in the league. If the rules were to limit the league to MS school sponsored teams it would eliminate just about every Catholic middle school, schools like those in Boone Co, magnet schools that allow open enrollment, etc... and that wouldn't be right.

Just my two cents.

[riverdog]

KMSFA rules state's nothing about a high school feeder program. It simply says you must be a recognized middle school program, which by your own statement, they are not qualified. Real simple.

[BigBlue12]

If they have three middle schools, they should have three teams. This is called middle school football. Not middle schools football. G-town, Scott Co. & Royal Springs all have there own team. And 100% of them wil go to Scott County High School. That will only help the high school football progam. This is not like AAU basketball.

[Crabcakes N Football]

Do you think there would be this much attention to the Union Raiders if they weren't any good? Doubt it. Granted both teams lost to Farnsley and to be honest, probably should have, Farnsley has a great system. More than one school or not, all kids will be attending Ryle later on and they will be fun to watch then.

[smoking44s]

Well stated. Your two cents worth = priceless

[smoking44s]

"Just my two cents." Well stated (and probably above the heads of the haters). Your two cents worth = PRICELESS!

[smoking44s]

yes we do, we are capped at no more than 75 kids on our team, 6-8 grade. We have had to make cuts in years past.

If Union or anyone else wants to cap the number of kids on their team isnt that their right? I will grant you that in football in most cases teams do not cut kids, but in most other sports kids are cut, therefore coaches are selecting the kids on the team.

AAARRRGGGHHHHH!!!!!!! Will you guys give it up? Go bother your wives (or moms) with something. UNION DOES NOT CUT PLAYERS. Give it a rest!!

[BIG RED Daddy]

KMSFA rules state's nothing about a high school feeder program. It simply says you must be a recognized middle school program, which by your own statement, they are not qualified. Real simple.

DO I really need to post this again???? (A second time.) Read below Bunky

KENTUCKY MIDDLE SCHOOL FOOTBALL ASSOCIATION
RULES – 2011
Page | 2
2. Players MUST attend within the school system the team represents (i.e. no home schooled players) (school system shall include multiple feeder elementary/middle schools that combine to form a recognized middle school football program).

[BIG RED Daddy]

RIVERDOG in case you missed it :
DO I really need to post this again????

KENTUCKY MIDDLE SCHOOL FOOTBALL ASSOCIATION
RULES – 2011
Page | 2
2. Players MUST attend within the school system the team represents (i.e. no home schooled players) (school system shall include multiple feeder elementary/middle schools that combine to form a recognized middle school football program).

[bcpwflfootball coach]

81 from the union raiders is only 13 his bday is 12/??/97.. i know im his father...

[bcpwflfootball coach]

81 is 13 his dbay is 12/??/97 i know i'm his father... never been held back gets good grades ... thanks, just wanted to clear that up !

[DOUGHDADDY]

yes we do, we are capped at no more than 75 kids on our team, 6-8 grade. We have had to make cuts in years past.

If union or anyone else wants to cap the number of kids on their team isnt that their right? I will grant you that in football in most cases teams do not cut kids, but in most other sports kids are cut, therefore coaches are selecting the kids on the team.

we have try outs and yes we cut players. We have to. This year we had 163 kids try out. I,m a farnsley father and was very impressed with union both on and off the field. What a game that 8th grade level was right down to the last second a shame someone had to lose that one we will see you again next year and i hope it is as good as this year go kymsfa you are getting it right for the most part

[Ram-Fan]

Louisa Middle school is actually made up of three schools too. Lawrence County Middle, Fallsburg and another. But they are listed as a D3 school. Greenup has 2 schools- Wurtland and Greysbranch and they are listed a s D1 school. Never could figure this out this year either.

[bcpwflfootball coach]

I'm 99% that that home schooled kid which keeps being referred to, played on the developmental team which was in a different league.. not the kmfsa...and only played against teams in Kenton county

[raiderjack]

you are correct. He played on the combined team because of home schooling. He's good enough to start on the 8th grade team.

[bcpwflfootball coach]

yes he was, and started in bcpwfl, but the union raiders followed the rules and made him play on the other team... his parents have an extremely strong moral compass and would never allow any wrong doings just to win...

[hardcore1]

The NKYFL requires a student to attend the school. Unless a change has been made to the KHSAA home schooled students may night play sports for a school. This is the same regulation for the KYMSFA.

You do have a player on the NYKYFL team that lives within the school district but attends school in another district. He wears his jersey just about every Friday to school.

This has nothing to do with hate. The fact is there are going to have to be certain questions answered and adjustments made in the KYMSFA just like there was for Lex Cath. For those that are not aware there is not a Lex Cath MS. The same questions being asked of Union are the same questions asked of Lex Cath. Past enrollment numbers Lex Cath was very open answering questions. In fact Lex Cath ended up being D2 because of a D1 school requesting enrollment numbers. Lex Cath had stated they would always play D1 because of how they were set up.

Some are taking offense to things that there is no need to be offended by. School team check grades often once a week. The school runs a report off of the grading system used at the school. If a player doesn't make grades he must sit for a week. This varies from school to school but it is fairly common. Many schools have now started discipline policies that follow the same line and attendance.

At no point has anyone said the Union team was made of thugs, or superstar athletes with poor grades. It is a simple fact since Union is not a school team questions will be asked during the offseason at the KYMSFA meeting.

Just to make sure you know everything you are talking about, there is no one on the Union Raiders 7th or 8th grade team that goes to a different school. The 5th and 6th grade team does not play in the NKYFL, that is for the 7th and 8th grade other team, that does have a home schooled kid on it. The 5th and 6th grade team plays a schedule with Cov. Cath and Campbell Co. 5th and 6th graders. The Union Raiders are not breaking any of the KYMSFA rules and went through all the questions to join the league, and put on a good showing all year. This is Ryle's feeder program and these kids will attend Ryle. No one is allowed to play on the KYMSFA teams if they are not at Ockerman or Gray, and live in Ryle's district. The 8th graders playing up is a great thing, just like the middle school doing the same thing the high shcool does. Union runs the same offense and defense as Ryle H.S. and that is how you develop a program. Not to throw any disrespect to anyone but this all came up after your team got drilled by the 7th and 8th grade team from Union.

[Maxman]

Lot of questions and confusion on this topic, for me anyway. I am surprised at some of the answers as well. I witnessed the league form. I know the boys were "plucked" and put on the team. I in fact know certain boys parents were called that will NOT go to Ryle. One told me he told them NO. However, that was the first year. Frankly, I paid little attention to them this past season. The only thing I heard was that they were not admitted to the NKY middle league. I asked a parent I have known for quite a while why the league wasn't allowing them to play and he indicated it was because they beat everyone. I thought that was a bit silly, to think that's the actual reason. However, after reading some of these posts, it does seem to me that there is a valid point. Middle school team means the middle school you go to. I'm guessing that is why they are sticking by it? I have not seen any movement from Conner or Boone to make feeder teams. And one more thing, let's all be real. I had a parent tell me his son was on the Union team last year. I said, what? I thought you were in Kenton co? "Oh, I just use my mom's address." We know it happens. And at many other schools as well. It's a shame though. Be proud where you're from. It's contagious.

[bluedad1]

Well- believe it or not, "because they beat everyone", isn't actually the answer as to why they weren't admitted into the NKMSAA football league.
The answer, as I understand it, is that the middle schools who participate in the NKMSAA football league use only kids who attend just their middle school. For example, even though Woodland, Summit View & Twenhofel might be feeders to all or some of Simon Kenton High School, they each have their own team. The Union team draws from a pool of two very large middle schools (Grrey & Ockerman) plus one medium size school (RA Jones). Thus, the NKMSAA refused admission.
That's not to say things won't evolve & change in the future. Presently in Boone Co there exists the Union Raider team plus the Union Jaguar team (which acts as the unsanctioned feeder league for Cooper). I imagine as the county & population grows, so too will the need for more opportunities, thus- I imagine before long, both Conner HS and Boone Co HS will start their own feeder teams. I'm guessing either that, or the BCPWFL will partner with them and serve essentially the same purpose.

[unbiased2011]

So your saying CovCath only has kids from 1 middle school feeding the teams they have? Really!

[bluedad1]

uuuh, no- that's not what I said at all. The Cov Cath league (CYF) draws from several different parishes (mostly St Pius, St Joe's, Blessed Sacrament, St Agnes and a few from IHM & St Paul). Just as the Newport Central Catholic middel school program draws from several parish schools.
Someone asked why Union wasn't accepted to the NKMSAA and I answered above.
Now I understand why it would seem contradictory to allow Cov Cath & NCC to do so & not Union, so let me try & speculate. The Union Raiders draw from two enormous middle schools-Gray & Ockerman- and one medium/small school in RA Jones. As I understand, any young man who attends those schools is allowed to play for the Union Raiders. Gray & Ockerman have- what- about 600 7th thru 8th grade kids at each (1,200 kids)? So speculating it's 50/50 boys & girls that's about 600 7th thru 8th grade (or 300 in 7th & 300 in 8th) boys to draw from just between those two & not incl whatever comes from RA Jones.
IHM has the highest enrollment among Boone/ Kenton Catholic schools and 7th thru 8th totals @ 150 kids. So using the 50/50 rule @ 75 boys
St Pius has much less as do St Agnes, Blessed Sac, St Joe & St Paul. I believe they probably each average @ 45 boys in 7th & 8th. All those schools pooled together may get you maybe 375 boys total to draw from between 7th & 8th graders. Divided equally that's @ 188 boys in 7th & 188 in 8th. Probably not too far from Turrkeyfoot, Twenhofel, Summit View, Conner, Ockerman & Gray.

[IAM22]

Union was not permitted to join NMKSAA association because they are not a school. They are a club team. They have zero support from their school system. Unlike the CCH and NCC teams which are school affiliated.