[ballstar]

Not hard to prove ~ KHSAA just "CHOOSE" who they want to go after. Depends on if their FAMILY, FRIENDS, FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE, or BENEFICIAL ~ PLAIN & SIMPLE!

:please: Not that hard to figure out.

Really, ok. How about this!!! U give the whitaker guy from bell county a job at Hazard because he is a good teacher??? I think not, u give him a job because he has a son that can flat out play. Is that recruiting??? Im sure it is but how do u prove that. Same situation with the justice kid at knott. Im sure his dad is a great educator but im sure they wanted his son more than his father wouldnt u agree!!! Not knocking either school or anyone i mentioned because i would do the same thing, im just trying to show how hard it is to prove recruiting.

[OrangenowBlue]

Well if you think hiring Eddie Whitaker(who averaged twenty wins a year) after he was fired at Bell County and hiring Raymond Justice(who has won three regional titles) as assistant coaches the same as bringing kids in from New York and Texas, you are delusional and a discussion with you would probably be a waste of time.

[ballstar]

Well if you think hiring Eddie Whitaker(who averaged twenty wins a year) after he was fired at Bell County and hiring Raymond Justice(who has won three regional titles) as assistant coaches the same as bringing kids in from New York and Texas, you are delusional and a discussion with you would probably be a waste of time.

For u to think thats the reason they were hired was their coaching ability makes u delusional. Come on, Big Al has more championships than all them combined. Futhermore, if they are such great coaches then why leave their HEAD COACHING jobs to go to another school. Its the same thing. Im not saying these 2 arent good coaching because they are, just proving a point.

[OrangenowBlue]

It would be impossible to prove due to the fact they are qualified for their positions and they are from Eastern Kentucky and were living in Eastern Kentucky at the time they took the jobs you are referring to. A kid coming from New York with no family ties and was rumored to be turned away from a school in another state where the coach just happens to be the son of Perry Central's Coach is a RED FLAG. Numerous players transferring from a town of over a million people in Texas to a small community in Eastern Kentucky that most people in the mountains cannot even find, with no ties except that they knew the coach in Texas, is a RED FLAG.

[ballstar]

It would be impossible to prove due to the fact they are qualified for their positions and they are from Eastern Kentucky and were living in Eastern Kentucky at the time they took the jobs you are referring to. A kid coming from New York with no family ties and was rumored to be turned away from a school in another state where the coach just happens to be the son of Perry Central's Coach is a RED FLAG. Numerous players transferring from a town of over a million people in Texas to a small community in Eastern Kentucky that most people in the mountains cannot even find, with no ties except that they knew the coach in Texas, is a RED FLAG.

Great point!!! But proving those things is what im saying. I understand that these situations are a little different because of location. The resident change is the biggest thing with khsaa, and all these r legit moves. Its gonna b really hard to deny any of these kids eligible with a big move of residents like they have made. Dont know where the info about being turned away from Logan comes in. Not sure if that is true. I cant see anyone that has a chance to pick up a kid like this turn him away. Weve got alot of talent here in eastern ky. With a kid like this, it may give them alot more opportunities to b seen by college coaches. Im glad he is here, i hope eastern ky get a ton of these kids. It just makes the 14th alot more exciting.

[ANEWPAT]

Great point!!! But proving those things is what im saying. I understand that these situations are a little different because of location. The resident change is the biggest thing with khsaa, and all these r legit moves. Its gonna b really hard to deny any of these kids eligible with a big move of residents like they have made. Dont know where the info about being turned away from Logan comes in. Not sure if that is true. I cant see anyone that has a chance to pick up a kid like this turn him away. Weve got alot of talent here in eastern ky. With a kid like this, it may give them alot more opportunities to b seen by college coaches. Im glad he is here, i hope eastern ky get a ton of these kids. It just makes the 14th alot more exciting.

I wasn't going to post any more because this whole thing has my blood pressure up already, but I had to respond to this. You are wrong. Having these kids here will not give our kids more opportunities. Any scouts that come in will be focusing on these recruits and our kids are going to get pushed to the side. We do have a lot of talent in the mountains. It's probably not D1 talent, but look at how many kids we have playing college ball right now. Those kids are on scholarships. When you bring in these boys from across the country who by your own admission are much better than our homegrown boys (if they weren't the coaches wouldn't be recruiting them) they get all the attention. They become the leader of their team. They become the best player in the 14th. They become the one to watch. You just wait and see how it plays out.

[worker1]

Truth is, recruiting has been out of hand in this region for a while. Between, PCC and Cordia, they have taken it to a new level of ridiculousness. All this proves is just how powerless and inept the KHSAA is. To their credit, though, PCC and Cordia have done a good enough job of covering up their tracks with the necessary paperwork and b.s. to make sure these kids are eligible per KHSAA rules. It's like the court system from the standpoint that it is not what you know, but it is what you can prove.

[Irish]

Has Jaysean been ruled eligible by KSHAA yet?

[ballstar]

Has Jaysean been ruled eligible by KSHAA yet?

Have no clue!! Havent even seen the kid play yet. It would be a terrible thing if the kid doesnt get to play though, going from what i hear he is the bomb!!

[OrangenowBlue]

Truth is, recruiting has been out of hand in this region for a while. Between, PCC and Cordia, they have taken it to a new level of ridiculousness. All this proves is just how powerless and inept the KHSAA is. To their credit, though, PCC and Cordia have done a good enough job of covering up their tracks with the necessary paperwork and b.s. to make sure these kids are eligible per KHSAA rules. It's like the court system from the standpoint that it is not what you know, but it is what you can prove.

Or attempt to prove.

[ballstar]

I wasn't going to post any more because this whole thing has my blood pressure up already, but I had to respond to this. You are wrong. Having these kids here will not give our kids more opportunities. Any scouts that come in will be focusing on these recruits and our kids are going to get pushed to the side. We do have a lot of talent in the mountains. It's probably not D1 talent, but look at how many kids we have playing college ball right now. Those kids are on scholarships. When you bring in these boys from across the country who by your own admission are much better than our homegrown boys (if they weren't the coaches wouldn't be recruiting them) they get all the attention. They become the leader of their team. They become the best player in the 14th. They become the one to watch. You just wait and see how it plays out.

I disagree!!! I think its good for the kids here. If they are not good enough to get looks of this magnitude then GET TO THE GYM AND WORK!!!!

[ANEWPAT]

I disagree!!! I think its good for the kids here. If they are not good enough to get looks of this magnitude then GET TO THE GYM AND WORK!!!!

I say send the kids back where they came from. Let our mountain boys fight it out with mountain boys. Let our kids get the attention and the scholarships from what ever school they may come from. If the transfers are so great they should be able to get their D1 offers by playing for their own local schools instead of coming here and taking way from our kids. Besides, by recruiting these boys the coaches are saying two things. One, our kids here are not good enough and don't deserve to play ball. Two, they can't coach well enough to build a team. Solution, they go out of state and steal someone else's talent and throw our kids to the curb.

[ballstar]

Truth is, recruiting has been out of hand in this region for a while. Between, PCC and Cordia, they have taken it to a new level of ridiculousness. All this proves is just how powerless and inept the KHSAA is. To their credit, though, PCC and Cordia have done a good enough job of covering up their tracks with the necessary paperwork and b.s. to make sure these kids are eligible per KHSAA rules. It's like the court system from the standpoint that it is not what you know, but it is what you can prove.

Ive say that b4 somewhere in this thread. How can u convict with no evidence. There are VERY few times that a kid which is an exceptional athlete transfers without something to gain. Wheter thats better jobs/life for family or just a chance to go to state. Call it recruiting or whatever u want too, doesnt matter. At the end of the day its the same wheter its HHS,PCC,Cordia, Knott or any other team in this area. Its ALL recruiting and let me say this: thre is no way in this world that any other team wouldnt take the kids at cordia or pcc if they could get them.

[ballstar]

I say send the kids back where they came from. Let our mountain boys fight it out with mountain boys. Let our kids get the attention and the scholarships from what ever school they may come from. If the transfers are so great they should be able to get their D1 offers by playing for their own local schools instead of coming here and taking way from our kids. Besides, by recruiting these boys the coaches are saying two things. One, our kids here are not good enough and don't deserve to play ball. Two, they can't coach well enough to build a team. Solution, they go out of state and steal someone else's talent and throw our kids to the curb.

Tell them to spend a little more time in the gym. If all the tranfers/recruits from KCC left and went back JBS would still have a team and KCC wouldnt have enough players for this season. Lets not just talk about a couple of teams here, every team in this region is guilty at one time for this!!!

[OrangenowBlue]

Tell them to spend a little more time in the gym. If all the tranfers/recruits from KCC left and went back JBS would still have a team and KCC wouldnt have enough players for this season. Lets not just talk about a couple of teams here, every team in this region is guilty at one time for this!!!

Doesn't most of JBS kids live in Knott County's school district to begin with. JBS doesn't have a team due to the inner turmoil and politics at JBS, not at Knott Central.

[ANEWPAT]

Doesn't most of JBS kids live in Knott County's school district to begin with. JBS doesn't have a team due to the inner turmoil and politics at JBS, not at Knott Central.

First, very few of those kids are left at KCC. Davis and Adams are probably the last of them. Those kids were not recruited by KCC anyway. That school fell apart and they left. In fact, at the time there were many problems between JBS and the public schools and most KCC faithfuls didn't want the kids at KCC. Thanks to the kids being more mature than most of the adults, it went smoother than anyone thought and worked out good for all the kids. Some of this years Freshman went to grade school at JBS, but there was no recruiting there either. JBS doesn't have many kids left over there at all. Even their nonathlete students have transferred.

I problem is bring all the kids in from out of state. I have no problem with the Owens boy and that other boy from KCC going to Cordia. They are still mountain boys playing for mountain teams.

[ballstar]

Doesn't most of JBS kids live in Knott County's school district to begin with. JBS doesn't have a team due to the inner turmoil and politics at JBS, not at Knott Central.

That may be true with the exception of justice, but im sure those freshman were shopped(trust me on this one) a few differnet places b4 landing there.

[ole_blue_sack_15]

Has Jaysean been ruled eligible by KSHAA yet?

think he has, they say he will be on the football field either this friday or next!!!
not 100% sure tho!

[ANEWPAT]

Okay....I just received a private message correcting me. Not sure if this is true, but it is what I was just told. Davis and Adams both transferred to KCC at the beginning of their Freshman year. The only player on the KCC team that played any high school basketball for any school other than KCC after becoming a Freshman is Justice. Justice transferred to KCC because his father was hired to help coach. That being said, I am sure that they have recruited boys. Every school has. But KCC nor any other local school has recruited from out of state like is going on this year. And, absolutley no other local school has recruited them and entire basketball team in one season.

[ballstar]

Okay....I just received a private message correcting me. Not sure if this is true, but it is what I was just told. Davis and Adams both transferred to KCC at the beginning of their Freshman year. The only player on the KCC team that played any high school basketball for any school other than KCC after becoming a Freshman is Justice. Justice transferred to KCC because his father was hired to help coach. That being said, I am sure that they have recruited boys. Every school has. But KCC nor any other local school has recruited from out of state like is going on this year. And, absolutley no other local school has recruited them and entire basketball team in one season.

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE!!!!!! This is what im talking about. Let me guess, they hired Davis because he was one of the top 5 winningest(not sure if thats a word) coaches of all time. Doubt it, it for his son. Same with justice and whitaker. Please tell me if there is a difference if the kid comes from another state. IMO, it looks better if they come from out of state.

[ANEWPAT]

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE!!!!!! This is what im talking about. Let me guess, they hired Davis because he was one of the top 5 winningest(not sure if thats a word) coaches of all time. Doubt it, it for his son. Same with justice and whitaker. Please tell me if there is a difference if the kid comes from another state. IMO, it looks better if they come from out of state.

First of all, like I said, Davis did not come to KCC because they were recruiting him. He was part of the mass exit from JBS when that school fell apart and his leaving there had absolutely nothing to do with KCC. When all those boys came, Davis and Cox were allowed to sit on the bench. I really doubt that Davis is receiving any pay as an assistant coach. Could be wrong there, but I doubt it.

As for the out of state, yes it is much worse than just a local boy moving to a different school. One, Rhodes had these boys and he was taking them where ever he ended up. They did not move here because they like Southest Kentucky. They have no ties to this area. They are here to use our kids and our programs to make themselves look better.

[LOOKAYANNER]

I don't see where it is any worse for a kid to move to a southeast Ky school from Texas than it would be for them to move from one southeast Ky school to another southeast Ky school. A move is a move. It's happened in the mountains since basketball became a sanctioned state high school sport in the 1920's. In the modern era I suppose the boundaries have expanded outside the Commonwealth's borders. Where they move from is irrelevant. A recruit is a recruit (if that indeed is what the move was for, it's not always for that reason, of course) whether they move from Bell County to Hazard or from Texas to Hazard. If a kid is talked into moving, or a parent giving a job to get the kid, it's all the same.
Heck, I'm still trying to figure out how Stephen Sizemore scored 12 points for Breathitt against Wolfe County on one Friday night back in the late '90's, and then played and scored for the Hazard Bulldogs in a game the next Friday night, and never moved from Breathitt County. If that was legal then the KHSAA needs to revise some transfer rules asap.

And what is the difference in what is going on in the mountains than what has happened in Jefferson County for a long time: Open Enrollment. Jefferson County has over 600,000 population. And they have school districts just like all counties. But in Jefferson a kid can enroll at any public school he wished to attend (if he/she is accepted, and most talented athletes would be) if they enroll straight out of middle school. In many cases some of the best middle school talent accumulate at the same Jefferson County schools when they get to high school. That's why you see the same group of schools always dominating in basketball. And 600,000 people living in a county makes for a lot of middle schoolers getting ready to move on to the next level. I was told that they were thinking about changing their rules to require a decision where they attend high school by the end of their 7th grade, that once they enter 8th grade they are locked into that particular middle school's feeder system. That would help a little. But Open Enrollment really gives some schools a big advantage in Jefferson, and makes an unbalanced situation imo.

Transfers is not getting out of hand, it has been out of hand since the beginning. I suppose it is easier now though, in the age of twitter and facebook, than it was in the 1930's. In that regard it is now more widespread and has crossed state borders.

[NewGuy]

So some peoples point a view is; recruiting is fine as long as it's "good ole mountain boys." Not those foreigners from another country or planet...LOL Recruiting is recruiting no matter what! My question is, how do their teammates feel about it. If they are ok with it, then that's all that should matter. If not........PRACTICE

[ballstar]

I don't see where it is any worse for a kid to move to a southeast Ky school from Texas than it would be for them to move from one southeast Ky school to another southeast Ky school. A move is a move. It's happened in the mountains since basketball became a sanctioned state high school sport in the 1920's. In the modern era I suppose the boundaries have expanded outside the Commonwealth's borders. Where they move from is irrelevant. A recruit is a recruit (if that indeed is what the move was for, it's not always for that reason, of course) whether they move from Bell County to Hazard or from Texas to Hazard. If a kid is talked into moving, or a parent giving a job to get the kid, it's all the same.
Heck, I'm still trying to figure out how Stephen Sizemore scored 12 points for Breathitt against Wolfe County on one Friday night back in the late '90's, and then played and scored for the Hazard Bulldogs in a game the next Friday night, and never moved from Breathitt County. If that was legal then the KHSAA needs to revise some transfer rules asap.

And what is the difference in what is going on in the mountains than what has happened in Jefferson County for a long time: Open Enrollment. Jefferson County has over 600,000 population. And they have school districts just like all counties. But in Jefferson a kid can enroll at any public school he wished to attend (if he/she is accepted, and most talented athletes would be) if they enroll straight out of middle school. In many cases some of the best middle school talent accumulate at the same Jefferson County schools when they get to high school. That's why you see the same group of schools always dominating in basketball. And 600,000 people living in a county makes for a lot of middle schoolers getting ready to move on to the next level. I was told that they were thinking about changing their rules to require a decision where they attend high school by the end of their 7th grade, that once they enter 8th grade they are locked into that particular middle school's feeder system. That would help a little. But Open Enrollment really gives some schools a big advantage in Jefferson, and makes an unbalanced situation imo.


Transfers is not getting out of hand, it has been out of hand since the beginning. I suppose it is easier now though, in the age of twitter and facebook, than it was in the 1930's. In that regard it is now more widespread and has crossed state borders.

Thank you, I agree completely!! This is what ive been trying to get across. A transfer is a transfer wheter its n or out of state. It just really irkes me that everyone wants to throw stones at cordia and pcc when they all live in glass houses. Ive said this b4 that no one school in this area would have turned any of these kids away. Its really recruiting when u get to watch a local kid play the whole season, then soon as season is over u go after them. Thats the worse form of recruiting IMO!!! JMO

[ANEWPAT]

Didn't say recruiting was okay so long as it's not from out of state. But it is easier to stomach. I would not have a problem with every transfer that comes in form out of state. I have a huge problem with what Rodrick Rhodes has done at Cordia. I think Hatcher found out about this poor kid from New York and has used him to one up Rhodes. What I have said is that these year, the situation has gotten out of hand in the 14th. It has been done openly and everyone admitting it and actually saying that their is nothing the KHSAA can do about it. Something should be done to stop it. What I have said is that in this situation, it's wrong and the KHSAA needs to fix it.

[NewGuy]

If anyone thought that Rodrick was going to come and play the hand he was dealt, was wrong. He wants to win, and in basketball you CONSISTENTLY win with talent.

[OrangenowBlue]

I don't see where it is any worse for a kid to move to a southeast Ky school from Texas than it would be for them to move from one southeast Ky school to another southeast Ky school. A move is a move. It's happened in the mountains since basketball became a sanctioned state high school sport in the 1920's. In the modern era I suppose the boundaries have expanded outside the Commonwealth's borders. Where they move from is irrelevant. A recruit is a recruit (if that indeed is what the move was for, it's not always for that reason, of course) whether they move from Bell County to Hazard or from Texas to Hazard. If a kid is talked into moving, or a parent giving a job to get the kid, it's all the same.
Heck, I'm still trying to figure out how Stephen Sizemore scored 12 points for Breathitt against Wolfe County on one Friday night back in the late '90's, and then played and scored for the Hazard Bulldogs in a game the next Friday night, and never moved from Breathitt County. If that was legal then the KHSAA needs to revise some transfer rules asap.

And what is the difference in what is going on in the mountains than what has happened in Jefferson County for a long time: Open Enrollment. Jefferson County has over 600,000 population. And they have school districts just like all counties. But in Jefferson a kid can enroll at any public school he wished to attend (if he/she is accepted, and most talented athletes would be) if they enroll straight out of middle school. In many cases some of the best middle school talent accumulate at the same Jefferson County schools when they get to high school. That's why you see the same group of schools always dominating in basketball. And 600,000 people living in a county makes for a lot of middle schoolers getting ready to move on to the next level. I was told that they were thinking about changing their rules to require a decision where they attend high school by the end of their 7th grade, that once they enter 8th grade they are locked into that particular middle school's feeder system. That would help a little. But Open Enrollment really gives some schools a big advantage in Jefferson, and makes an unbalanced situation imo.

Transfers is not getting out of hand, it has been out of hand since the beginning. I suppose it is easier now though, in the age of twitter and facebook, than it was in the 1930's. In that regard it is now more widespread and has crossed state borders.

Guys, any kids can enroll at any high school coming out of grade school. That is not just in Jefferson County, that rule applies everywhere in Kentucky. They were going to change it at one time but they didn't.

[ballstar]

Didn't say recruiting was okay so long as it's not from out of state. But it is easier to stomach. I would not have a problem with every transfer that comes in form out of state. I have a huge problem with what Rodrick Rhodes has done at Cordia. I think Hatcher found out about this poor kid from New York and has used him to one up Rhodes. What I have said is that these year, the situation has gotten out of hand in the 14th. It has been done openly and everyone admitting it and actually saying that their is nothing the KHSAA can do about it. Something should be done to stop it. What I have said is that in this situation, it's wrong and the KHSAA needs to fix it.

Strain at swallowing a gnat but u can swallow a camel(i think thats how the saying goes, LOL). Its no different at all, just the location they come from. No punt intended but PCC didnt need to 1 up Cordia. They were most likely the best team this yr without this new kid. I just think its good for the region. Im happy to have them.

[OrangenowBlue]

Strain at swallowing a gnat but u can swallow a camel(i think thats how the saying goes, LOL). Its no different at all, just the location they come from. No punt intended but PCC didnt need to 1 up Cordia. They were most likely the best team this yr without this new kid. I just think its good for the region. Im happy to have them.

Lets give PCC the Humanitarian/Good Citizenship Award for their unselfishness and goodwill. They are bringing players in not for their own benefit, but for the GOOD of the REGION. There is a special place for wonderful, unselfish, kind-hearted people like that. :flush:

[kai]

you are correct, local district could impose this on their district alone however because khsaa does not govern middle school could not be done statewide. If school district are smart they will never let khsaa have any authority over middle schools. The KHSAA enforcement of the transfer rules are hit an miss at best, more selective enforcement than any uniform following of their own rules.