[Cat Daddy]

If you truly wanted to see men amongst boys then you should get your hands on some video of that '87 Pikeville team. The '95 and '96 Breathitt teams were really really good and were probably close in comparing speed but Pikeville was MUCH more physical and way more dominant. I say this not as a Pikeville alum or fan, being Im from Belfry, but as an outside unbiased observer. That team looked like a college team and Im proud to say they were from the mountains and I got the pleasure to watch/witness their greatness.

I think a 42 game winning streak that began with the "95" and "96" Breathitt football team would be defined as dominant. Beating the likes of Boyle County, Danville, Franklin Simpson, and Fort Knox - (then all time leading rusher Derek Homer) to win back to back state championships would be defined as dominant. I am not taking anything away from the "87" Pikeville team but to say Pikeville was more dominant than the "95" and "96" Bobcats is totally inaccurate.

[PHSForever]

I think a 42 game winning streak that began with the "95" and "96" Breathitt football team would be defined as dominant. Beating the likes of Boyle County, Danville, Franklin Simpson, and Fort Knox - (then all time leading rusher Derek Homer) to win back to back state championships would be defined as dominant. I am not taking anything away from the "87" Pikeville team but to say Pikeville was more dominant than the "95" and "96" Bobcats is totally inaccurate.

State's first-ever three-peat in football counts as dominant (something your beloved Breathitt still hasn't done). 33 consecutive wins is dominant as well. Being called "the best high school football team I've ever seen" by an NFL hall of famer is considered dominant. Breathitt had a tremendous run, and were an outstanding team. But fact of the matter is, the 87 PHS team was simply not only one of the best mountain teams, but one of the best teams regardless of class EVER state-wide. Heck, People magazine did an article called "Boys of Fall" in 1988 about PHS. nicker:

[Big Five-0-]

Imho, the 87' Pikeville team was the best high school football team to ever come out of these mountains. They had it all. Strength,size and speed and were well coached. Coach Howard has told me more than once in comparing the 88' team (which was great), the 87' team was better.

[rojas]

In 1948 Somerset was #1 in KY and Evarts was #2. This was before classes.

[rojas]

All 11 starters on that Evarts team were scholarship college football players.

[Blue_Blinker]

There are several teams from old Lynch High that have to be in the discussion. That's going back a long ways though.

[Unregistered]

From the video it looks like Pikeville is playing a 4-3 D at times. I had forgot about Deramus playing DT for them. I am not sure what there base D was, but a 4-3 matches up with anything if you got the speed to run it and Pikeville in 87 had Speed on top of Speed.

[potlimit2002]

I know Belfry and Pikeville played in Championship game, who was the 3rd team?

[Panther Thunder]

I know Belfry and Pikeville played in Championship game, who was the 3rd team?

I assume he speaks of Elkhorn City back in the 50's. Other than that, I have no idea.

[wooderson]

I think a 42 game winning streak that began with the "95" and "96" Breathitt football team would be defined as dominant. Beating the likes of Boyle County, Danville, Franklin Simpson, and Fort Knox - (then all time leading rusher Derek Homer) to win back to back state championships would be defined as dominant. I am not taking anything away from the "87" Pikeville team but to say Pikeville was more dominant than the "95" and "96" Bobcats is totally inaccurate.

I totally agree, what Breathitt accomplished was dominant but ask anyone who was fortunate to witness both teams play in person and you might start to get the picture. I was one, along with several on here, who got to see both and let me say without question that Pikeville was at least 2 TDs better than those Bobcat teams. Dont mean to step on toes with my assessment of these teams because I loved watching those Breathitt teams, granted i root for a rival, but they werent on the same level as the '87 Panthers. Maybe '88 and definately better than the '89 team but '87 has a podium all to itself.

[Big Five-0-]

I know Belfry and Pikeville played in Championship game, who was the 3rd team?

Elkhorn City was the first football team in Pike Co. to win a state championship game. That was in 1964. The well was dry in Pike co. for a long time until Pikeville staeted it's three yr. run in 1987.

[HAIL PIKEVILLE!]

1987 Pikeville Panthers:

You have to go with the team that Dave Cantral ranked as the #1 team in the state in ALL classes. They were also in the USA Today Top 25 with the Odessa Permians and St. Thomas Aquinases of the world that year. No team in the mountains and few teams in the entire state not named ST. X, Trinity, or Highlands can boast that. End of arguement...

[geauxtigers75]

1987 Pikeville has to be #1 IMO. I have heard some of the old Lynch teams we're extremely good back in the day.

[Bigblue#4]

The Breathitt Co Bobcats of 95 and 96 team would of beat the 1987 pikeville or the good 2004 team at Belfry. The reason that the bobcats would of beat the 87 pikeville team is I don't see them being able to stop the pass. The bobcats would stretch you out and just throw the ball all over the place and they could also run the ball. On defense they were very good, the stop some very good wishbone teams in Danville,Fort knox,Belfry. In 1996 Belfry was ranked #1 in 3a and bobcats were #1 in 2a and the Bobcats beat Belfry 54-6. The Bobcats would also hand the 2004 Belfry team a loss because the were to one dimensional. To beat the bobcats you would had to be able to pass also and not just throw it up to one player, but read a defense.

[Amped 88]

The Breathitt Co Bobcats of 95 and 96 team would of beat the 1987 pikeville or the good 2004 team at Belfry. The reason that the bobcats would of beat the 87 pikeville team is I don't see them being able to stop the pass. The bobcats would stretch you out and just throw the ball all over the place and they could also run the ball. On defense they were very good, the stop some very good wishbone teams in Danville,Fort knox,Belfry. In 1996 Belfry was ranked #1 in 3a and bobcats were #1 in 2a and the Bobcats beat Belfry 54-6. The Bobcats would also hand the 2004 Belfry team a loss because the were to one dimensional. To beat the bobcats you would had to be able to pass also and not just throw it up to one player, but read a defense.

Sorry to tell you Highlands was ranked number one in 3A in 1996 and about 17 in the nation. Belfry lost to Bell County in 1996 in the playoffs and then Bell lost to Highlands 16-14 in the semifinals.

[EKUAlum05]

The Breathitt Co Bobcats of 95 and 96 team would of beat the 1987 pikeville or the good 2004 team at Belfry. The reason that the bobcats would of beat the 87 pikeville team is I don't see them being able to stop the pass. The bobcats would stretch you out and just throw the ball all over the place and they could also run the ball. On defense they were very good, the stop some very good wishbone teams in Danville,Fort knox,Belfry. In 1996 Belfry was ranked #1 in 3a and bobcats were #1 in 2a and the Bobcats beat Belfry 54-6. The Bobcats would also hand the 2004 Belfry team a loss because the were to one dimensional. To beat the bobcats you would had to be able to pass also and not just throw it up to one player, but read a defense.

I don't believe the 96 Belfry team was ever #1 in 3A at any point. The Pirates lost to Male 7-0 in the Pike County Bowl the week prior to the Honey Bowl game vs. Breathitt. That was the first year of Belfry using the spread offense with Soph QB Jonathan Wright at the reigns feeling out that position.

The 2004 Belfry team was one dimensional, but it was probably the single greatest one dimension the mountains has ever seen. I am not sure EKY will ever see a backfield that was as dominant as Jones, Howard, and Childress. Belfry faced basically an 11 man box every game and still noone came close to shutting them down.

[hulkamania]

Can't agree with this..

That Middlesboro team was great, but the 1987 Pikeville team was transcendent.

The closest a mountain team has ever came to being a Top 50 team Nationally was that Panther team.

Here is my Top 5 list, I only consider teams who won their State Championship:
1. 1987 Pikeville
2. 2004 Belfry
3. 2002 Breathitt
4. 1991 Bell County
5. 1996 Breathitt

I really hate to step on toes here but the 97 bobcats were did break the top 50 nationally. They were totally unstoppable on a neutral field even the great dudley said it was the best high school team he had ever seen even though he won the championship that year at bourbon co. I would venture to guess he'd seen a few more high school teams than the nfl hall of famer. I love this thread and the breathitt bobcats and never had the opportunity to see the great panther teams of the past and have the upmost respect for them but the game had changed quite dramatically by the time this 97 team played and to imagine them being beat by a team of that stature is lunecy. You must know that the offensive line that year AVERAGED a 4.9 40 yard dash and 300+bench press. Skill kids were 4.7 - 4.4 and 250+. I just wish we could watch them play. They were ranked #1 overall and finished second behind highlands after losing to lawrence in the third round in one of the most unbelievable fields ive ever seen played on. For that field to be deemed playable may have been the comparable to deeming the titanic eligible for the next carribean cruise.

[PHSForever]

The Breathitt Co Bobcats of 95 and 96 team would of beat the 1987 pikeville or the good 2004 team at Belfry. The reason that the bobcats would of beat the 87 pikeville team is I don't see them being able to stop the pass. The bobcats would stretch you out and just throw the ball all over the place and they could also run the ball. On defense they were very good, the stop some very good wishbone teams in Danville,Fort knox,Belfry. In 1996 Belfry was ranked #1 in 3a and bobcats were #1 in 2a and the Bobcats beat Belfry 54-6. The Bobcats would also hand the 2004 Belfry team a loss because the were to one dimensional. To beat the bobcats you would had to be able to pass also and not just throw it up to one player, but read a defense.

Some quick stats for you. Top two teams for season total offense are the 1987 and 1991 PHS teams with 7409 yards. 1989 team had 6679. 1987 team averaged 453.4 rush yards PER GAME, with 4983 total yards rushing in 14 games on the season. Ask any coach, a team with a strong running game will wear you down a heck of a lot faster than a passing game, and enable you to control the clock, and open up passing opportunities. While Breathitt was good passing those years, their running game didn't come close to PHS's. On a side note, PHS actually has had several good years of passing offenses, with quite a few records on top achievers. The 87 team didn't have a ton of passing offense because it was situational. Still had some very good numbers because they passed in the moments when defenses were loading the box to stop the run (or try to), and that opened the box back up for the rushing game. Breathitt NEVER approached a similar level of rushing offense, so they had to throw the heck out of the ball.

1988 PHS defense (basically the same team as 1987) allowed a TOTAL of 1,100 yards by their opponents for the SEASON, 1987 team had 35 total fumble recoveries. Pass yards defense records are mostly held by teams from the 60's, 70's and earlier, so I don't have access to those records.

But suffice to say, there is NO way the Breathitt County teams of 95/96 would have had an easy time against the Pikeville defense from 1987. Would they have gotten yards? Of course. But you also have to remember PHS 87 and 88 teams had people like Chris McNamee (played safety at EKU), and Jody Brown (all-state DB) in the defensive backfield. Again, not to take anything away from those very good Breathitt County teams of the 90's, but they just would not have dominated the 87 PHS team like you are implying. Just go ahead, tally up all the different people from all different schools here who are all in agreement about that 87 PHS team. It's a landslide vote in their favor.

[potlimit2002]

Sorry to tell you Highlands was ranked number one in 3A in 1996 and about 17 in the nation. Belfry lost to Bell County in 1996 in the playoffs and then Bell lost to Highlands 16-14 in the semifinals.

Sorry to tell you this thread is not about Highlands although is sounds like "HighLands" could be a mountain team,but they are not. Highlands is located right across the river from a City with a Population of about 400,000 people. I read the Highlands fans bragging about beating JCHS on here, last time I check Paintsville had a population of about 5200 people and Johnson CO around 20,000 people and 35% of them are elderly. SO WOW Highlands beat a rual school with a humble football tradtion. WAY TO GO HIGHLANDS! Anyway this thread is about Mountain football and the small towns and the people in them, looking back at some great teams.

[Panther Thunder]

I don't believe the 96 Belfry team was ever #1 in 3A at any point. The Pirates lost to Male 7-0 in the Pike County Bowl the week prior to the Honey Bowl game vs. Breathitt. That was the first year of Belfry using the spread offense with Soph QB Jonathan Wright at the reigns feeling out that position.

The 2004 Belfry team was one dimensional, but it was probably the single greatest one dimension the mountains has ever seen. I am not sure EKY will ever see a backfield that was as dominant as Jones, Howard, and Childress. Belfry faced basically an 11 man box every game and still noone came close to shutting them down.

Wasn't Wright a FR in 1996? He played in 1999 vs. Pikeville.

[PHSForever]

I really hate to step on toes here but the 97 bobcats were did break the top 50 nationally. They were totally unstoppable on a neutral field even the great dudley said it was the best high school team he had ever seen even though he won the championship that year at bourbon co. I would venture to guess he'd seen a few more high school teams than the nfl hall of famer. I love this thread and the breathitt bobcats and never had the opportunity to see the great panther teams of the past and have the upmost respect for them but the game had changed quite dramatically by the time this 97 team played and to imagine them being beat by a team of that stature is lunecy. You must know that the offensive line that year AVERAGED a 4.9 40 yard dash and 300+bench press. Skill kids were 4.7 - 4.4 and 250+. I just wish we could watch them play. They were ranked #1 overall and finished second behind highlands after losing to lawrence in the third round in one of the most unbelievable fields ive ever seen played on. For that field to be deemed playable may have been the comparable to deeming the titanic eligible for the next carribean cruise.

Fair enough, Dudley has seen his share of games to be sure, but I'd take the word of an NFL hall of famer over his for as far as recognizing talent, no offense to him. Munoz was used to seeing Cincinatti teams, etc. and worked the radios as an analyst for many games, so I think it's fair to say he also knew what he was talking about.

Irregardless, the numbers you mention are speed and bench presses. Those don't necessarily win games (speed can, of course). To say it is lunacy to imagine a "team of that stature" beating the 97 team is lunacy itself. I am venturing to guess you aren't old enough to compare back beyond what you are referring to (90's and up), but if you had seen the 87 team in action, I'd guess you would have to agree with all the other posters here.

I agree though, great thread for discussion, and would have loved to have seen these two teams play. Maybe we can get some computer expert out there to do one of the NCAA sims based on the stats? LOL

[potlimit2002]

I really hate to step on toes here but the 97 bobcats were did break the top 50 nationally. They were totally unstoppable on a neutral field even the great dudley said it was the best high school team he had ever seen even though he won the championship that year at bourbon co. I would venture to guess he'd seen a few more high school teams than the nfl hall of famer. I love this thread and the breathitt bobcats and never had the opportunity to see the great panther teams of the past and have the upmost respect for them but the game had changed quite dramatically by the time this 97 team played and to imagine them being beat by a team of that stature is lunecy. You must know that the offensive line that year AVERAGED a 4.9 40 yard dash and 300+bench press. Skill kids were 4.7 - 4.4 and 250+. I just wish we could watch them play. They were ranked #1 overall and finished second behind highlands after losing to lawrence in the third round in one of the most unbelievable fields ive ever seen played on. For that field to be deemed playable may have been the comparable to deeming the titanic eligible for the next carribean cruise.

I think those Breathitt CO teams were great teams but 87 Pikeville is still #1 in my book. PIkeville could throw it and run it. I loved the style of play that Breathitt played though.

[hulkamania]

Fair enough, Dudley has seen his share of games to be sure, but I'd take the word of an NFL hall of famer over his for as far as recognizing talent, no offense to him. Munoz was used to seeing Cincinatti teams, etc. and worked the radios as an analyst for many games, so I think it's fair to say he also knew what he was talking about.

Irregardless, the numbers you mention are speed and bench presses. Those don't necessarily win games (speed can, of course). To say it is lunacy to imagine a "team of that stature" beating the 97 team is lunacy itself. I am venturing to guess you aren't old enough to compare back beyond what you are referring to (90's and up), but if you had seen the 87 team in action, I'd guess you would have to agree with all the other posters here.

I agree though, great thread for discussion, and would have loved to have seen these two teams play. Maybe we can get some computer expert out there to do one of the NCAA sims based on the stats? LOL

Well, the problem with your assumption is that 90 percent of the posters are from Pike county. Yes, I'm old enough to have seen the team, just never had the opportunity, but I remember the hype and was a fan considering they were a mountain team. My referal to the a team of that stature was considering the middle school play book offensively and definsively that I saw on the video and heard about as well. Which, don't take offense to that, please, because it's awesome to have a team who can take a playbook like that and make it work as well as they did and that's a compliment in my books to that team, but as the game evolved so dramatically in the early and mid 90's, I don't believe that team with that offense and defense could've beaten the bobcats of the 97 team. I'm not saying it wouldn't have been a competitive game, but one of the things I was pointing out was the speed and strength and my point was to the person who posted how fast that 87 team was, the 97 bobcats were not to be outdone in those areas.

I'm not sure about that ncaa thing, but what would be awesome is something like that virtual fight with rocky in the latest rocky movie, how awesome would that be. lol. Find somebody to do that for us and we'll take up a collection.

[hulkamania]

Regarding Dudley though, seriously, Munoz seeing more talent, at most could he have seen more than 100 or so high school games and can you really count those he played in?? Dudley WON more games than that in his first ten years. Granted it was Ohio, but I'm sure Dudley has had the opportunity to see enough state championship games in his tenure to know and understand good high school football teams INCLUDING the 87 Pikeville team. It's not known if Munoz was ever priviliged of seeing the 97 Bobcats so can we really go on that?

Work on that virtual game for us.

[Panther Thunder]

Well, the problem with your assumption is that 90 percent of the posters are from Pike county.

Yepp. Cause county schools LOVE Pikeville. lol

[hulkamania]

Yepp. Cause county schools LOVE Pikeville. lol

And you would say you know how people who aren't panther fans living in Pike County feel? It's kinda like Mountain Pride isn't it? Everbody who lives in the mountains pull for the mountain team in December pretty much regardless. So if you've got no dog in the fight, you pull for you neighbors dog. There's really no arguing that.

[Unregistered]

Were are all the Belfry people??? I think the 85 & 86 Belfry teams were 2 GREAT teams that competed in Class 3A when it was the Largest class.

[Real Badman]

Elkhorn City was the first football team in Pike Co. to win a state championship game. That was in 1964. The well was dry in Pike co. for a long time until Pikeville staeted it's three yr. run in 1987.

They also made it in 73 I believe.

[Hatz]

No mention has been made of them but the Corbin teams of '76 and '77 might be in discussion.

They won the AA title in '76 and lost by one in '77 to the same Mayfield squad. They were very strong and solid defensively Steve Bird was on of a stable of running backs. I would say they played the toughest team in the finals of any mentioned so far in Mayfield. The Cardinals were on their streak of appearing in three state finals and winning two of them.

Where do they represent on your lists?

:popcorn:

[wooderson]

And you would say you know how people who aren't panther fans living in Pike County feel? It's kinda like Mountain Pride isn't it? Everbody who lives in the mountains pull for the mountain team in December pretty much regardless. So if you've got no dog in the fight, you pull for you neighbors dog. There's really no arguing that.

Well I can say I pretty much know how the majority of Pike Co. feels about Pikeville!!! The majority still have a hatred probably based on the independent school system thing or IMO just the whipping they tended to take throughout the years so to say that the county schools have love for Pikeville is ludicrous. Heck, Im sitting here taking up for Pikeville and I believe Ive developed an ulcer from it. :biggrin: The bottom line is Pikeville matched ANY past mountain teams in speed and athleticism and surpassed them on brute strength and pure fundamentals. Nuff said.