[vundy33]

I think Israel has the right to do anything it has to do to protect it's people...and that is all.

[Beetle01]

Hamas terrorizes some of the people of Gaza as much as they do Israel.

Why dont you look up the number killed by rocket strikes in Israel compared to the amount of civilians killed by Israel. Its extremely lopsided.

Deathstar there are portions of the Bible that say to help Israel. That doesnt mean back them and supply them with the means to commit mass murder.

Im not saying one side is right over the other. Im saying the idea of just putting out blind faith behind a government no matter what is beyond insane.

What happens if Turkey and Israel go to war? Turkey is a NATO member. Israel violates their airspace daily for no reason. If they are to go to war we are bound by all the treaties we have signed, including the same parts of those treaties we used to round up support for Afghanistan and Iraq.

Also, lets not act like all of the Israeli's are supportive of their government. The Likud party is not very popular right now, and will likely be out of office soon if they dont kick start the next world war before then. They have already stationed nuclear subs off of Iran. Do know that a nuclear strike by Israel against Iran will mean Russia will respond similarly on Israel.

[Hoot Gibson]

Hamas terrorizes some of the people of Gaza as much as they do Israel.

Why dont you look up the number killed by rocket strikes in Israel compared to the amount of civilians killed by Israel. Its extremely lopsided.

Deathstar there are portions of the Bible that say to help Israel. That doesnt mean back them and supply them with the means to commit mass murder.

Im not saying one side is right over the other. Im saying the idea of just putting out blind faith behind a government no matter what is beyond insane.

What happens if Turkey and Israel go to war? Turkey is a NATO member. Israel violates their airspace daily for no reason. If they are to go to war we are bound by all the treaties we have signed, including the same parts of those treaties we used to round up support for Afghanistan and Iraq.

Also, lets not act like all of the Israeli's are supportive of their government. The Likud party is not very popular right now, and will likely be out of office soon if they dont kick start the next world war before then. They have already stationed nuclear subs off of Iran. Do know that a nuclear strike by Israel against Iran will mean Russia will respond similarly on Israel.

You are making the claim, so why don't you look up the numbers - and please cite the source for those numbers. There is a tendency on the parts of many to label everybody not in uniform killed by the Israelis a "civilian" and most of Israel's enemies hide in civilian clothes among children and behind the skirts of women.

Do you believe that Israel would be killing Gazans if Hamas recognized Israel's right to exist and stopped targeting Israeli citizens for death?

Conversely, what do you think that Israel could do unilaterally to stop the attacks on its people? Israel was assured that it would have a peaceful neighbor if it ceded control of the Gaza Strip to the Palestinians - why would they have taken the risk if there goal was simply to slaughter innocent civilians?

[Beetle01]

You are making the claim, so why don't you look up the numbers - and please cite the source for those numbers. There is a tendency on the parts of many to label everybody not in uniform killed by the Israelis a "civilian" and most of Israel's enemies hide in civilian clothes among children and behind the skirts of women.

Do you believe that Israel would be killing Gazans if Hamas recognized Israel's right to exist and stopped targeting Israeli citizens for death?

Conversely, what do you think that Israel could do unilaterally to stop the attacks on its people? Israel was assured that it would have a peaceful neighbor if it ceded control of the Gaza Strip to the Palestinians - why would they have taken the risk if there goal was simply to slaughter innocent civilians?

I know what the numbers are, I do the research to be informed on the subject. Since you are using the rocket strikes as a talking point I figured you would be informed on it, rather than repeating what Hannity and those clowns say. Its almost a 100-1 difference.


I absolutely believe the Israeli's would still be killing Palestinians, they were doing it before, they would still be doing it. Just as I believe even if Hamas called its dogs off, there would still be radical groups and people in that area and from other Arab countries carrying out strikes on Israel. Hezbollah is much more of a threat to Israel than Hamas. The last time Israel went into Lebanon they got their butt kicks by them.


Focus on the leadership of those groups. Kill all radical group members. While doing this they would have to embrace the Palestinian people, replacing what these groups do for them, which is provide, food, water, education.

[Hoot Gibson]

I know what the numbers are, I do the research to be informed on the subject. Since you are using the rocket strikes as a talking point I figured you would be informed on it, rather than repeating what Hannity and those clowns say. Its almost a 100-1 difference.


I absolutely believe the Israeli's would still be killing Palestinians, they were doing it before, they would still be doing it. Just as I believe even if Hamas called its dogs off, there would still be radical groups and people in that area and from other Arab countries carrying out strikes on Israel. Hezbollah is much more of a threat to Israel than Hamas. The last time Israel went into Lebanon they got their butt kicks by them.


Focus on the leadership of those groups. Kill all radical group members. While doing this they would have to embrace the Palestinian people, replacing what these groups do for them, which is provide, food, water, education.

You are the one who asserted that Israel kills many times more civilians than the Gazan terrorists do and now you say that the ratio of dead Gaza civilians to dead Israeli civilians is almost 100 to 1 but you provide zilch to back up your claim.

Heck, if Israel were slaughtering innocent civilians at a 100 to 1 ratio without provocation, I could not support them. If you believe that to be a fact, then why do you support them?

Israel's big mistake has been bowing to US pressure and responding to unprovoked rocket attacks on its civilians "proportionately." I do not believe that Israel will make that mistake under Netanyahu. If we could have vaporized 10,000 or 100,000 al Qaeda members after 9/11, we would have not hesitated, and it is wrong for us to discourage Israel from making punitive attacks on its enemies in response to attacks on its people.

[Deathstar 80]

Hamas terrorizes some of the people of Gaza as much as they do Israel.

Why dont you look up the number killed by rocket strikes in Israel compared to the amount of civilians killed by Israel. Its extremely lopsided.

Deathstar there are portions of the Bible that say to help Israel. That doesnt mean back them and supply them with the means to commit mass murder.

Im not saying one side is right over the other. Im saying the idea of just putting out blind faith behind a government no matter what is beyond insane.

What happens if Turkey and Israel go to war? Turkey is a NATO member. Israel violates their airspace daily for no reason. If they are to go to war we are bound by all the treaties we have signed, including the same parts of those treaties we used to round up support for Afghanistan and Iraq.

Also, lets not act like all of the Israeli's are supportive of their government. The Likud party is not very popular right now, and will likely be out of office soon if they dont kick start the next world war before then. They have already stationed nuclear subs off of Iran. Do know that a nuclear strike by Israel against Iran will mean Russia will respond similarly on Israel.

If Israel is doing what you claim that they're doing, then I definitely don't support Israel's actions.

[TheRealVille]

Really? Do you have anything to support your theory or does your gut just tell you that the recording is fake?

Ok, if you can live with it, I can. I could tell the 2nd and 4th was fake as soon as I heard it. BTW, I could care less if Israel blows the rest of that area off the map but I won't post that foolish stuff. Man, after all our Pm's the other night, and now this, I have lost all respect.

[TheRealVille]

Ok, if you can live with it, I can. I could tell the 2nd and 4th was fake as soon as I heard it. BTW, I could care less if Israel blows the rest of that area off the map but I won't post that foolish stuff. Man, after all our Pm's the other night, and now this, I have lost all respect.

deleted

[TheRealVille]

Never mind, I can't get it to post the real audio.

[BillyB]

Never mind, I can't get it to post the real audio.

You're right, the IDF took it back. Link

Yet another reason not to post everything you find on the internet. It's like the person in our office that forwards all the fake virus alerts.

[Hoot Gibson]

Ok, if you can live with it, I can. I could tell the 2nd and 4th was fake as soon as I heard it. BTW, I could care less if Israel blows the rest of that area off the map but I won't post that foolish stuff. Man, after all our Pm's the other night, and now this, I have lost all respect.

So what? I am supposed to care that somebody who loses debates and then challenges me to meet them at their front door to settle things like "men" has lost respect for me? :lmao:

Grow up and start debating like an adult. It is possible to disagree without resorting to personal insults and threats.

[Hoot Gibson]

You're right, the IDF took it back. Link

Yet another reason not to post everything you find on the internet. It's like the person in our office that forwards all the fake virus alerts.

Here's a flash for you Billy B - the "clarification" that you posted from the same source from which I posted. Not only that, but had you read the clarification, you would find that the IDF still believes that the "Go back to Aushwitz" transmission came from one of the flotilla ships, but that it did not come from the flag ship. So apparently, it is okay to use the IDF as a source when it suits your purpose but not okay for me to do the same when you don't like the message. Got it. :Thumbs:

[BillyB]

Here's a flash for you Billy B - the "clarification" that you posted from the same source from which I posted. Not only that, but had you read the clarification, you would find that the IDF still believes that the "Go back to Aushwitz" transmission came from one of the flotilla ships, but that it did not come from the flag ship. So apparently, it is okay to use the IDF as a source when it suits your purpose but not okay for me to do the same when you don't like the message. Got it. :Thumbs:

They edited the audio to make it sound like it was a direct response from the ship they were communicating with. Because of that, I really don't believe what the IDF is saying on this issue.

[TheRealVille]

So what? I am supposed to care that somebody who loses debates and then challenges me to meet them at their front door to settle things like "men" has lost respect for me? :lmao:

Grow up and start debating like an adult. It is possible to disagree without resorting to personal insults and threats.

I thought we settled that issue in PM Hoot, with apologies? The way I do things, is if I accept an apology, I never bring it up again. This latest post of mine wasn't any kind of insult, I merely pointed out to you that posting that video, knowing it had been cut and edited, was beneath you.

BTW, I don't count that other stuff as losing a debate. I guess we disagree on the difference in having no respect for something and ridiculing it.

[Hoot Gibson]

I thought we settled that issue in PM Hoot, with apologies? The way I do things, is if I accept an apology, I never bring it up again. This latest post of mine wasn't any kind of insult, I merely pointed out to you that posting that video, knowing it had been cut and edited, was beneath you.

BTW, I don't count that other stuff as losing a debate. I guess we disagree on the difference in having no respect for something and ridiculing it.

Sorry, I don't think that I have ever read a single post by anybody on any forum that has caused me to "lose all respect" for them. So, the fact that the audio was broadcast from a different ship in the flotilla than the one to which it was originally attributed seems like a pretty flimsy excuse for making such a statement. I am a radio enthusiast (a licensed one) and if you have ever listened to a group of people broadcasting on the same frequency and tried to distinguish among them, then you would know that such a mix-up is both plausible and understandable.

However, Israel is at war and disinformation is a part of war. Neither you nor I will ever be able to say with certainty who made the broadcast but that is no excuse to make the childish comment that you made toward me. There is a big difference in ridiculing a position and disrespecting the person advancing it. You did the latter, not the former. It shows me the depth and sincerity of your worthless apology...and don't bother me with any more PMs - they will be ignored and unread.

[TheRealVille]

Sorry, I don't think that I have ever read a single post by anybody on any forum that has caused me to "lose all respect" for them. So, the fact that the audio was broadcast from a different ship in the flotilla than the one to which it was originally attributed seems like a pretty flimsy excuse for making such a statement. I am a radio enthusiast (a licensed one) and if you have ever listened to a group of people broadcasting on the same frequency and tried to distinguish among them, then you would know that such a mix-up is both plausible and understandable.

However, Israel is at war and disinformation is a part of war. Neither you nor I will ever be able to say with certainty who made the broadcast but that is no excuse to make the childish comment that you made toward me. There is a big difference in ridiculing a position and disrespecting the person advancing it. You did the latter, not the former. It shows me the depth and sincerity of your worthless apology...and don't bother me with any more PMs - they will be ignored and unread.

It was an open channel, nobody knows for sure if it even came from any of the ships. LOL, I've lost a friend. Is there some reason you think I would care if you ignore me? You are nothing but a conservative hack. You have proven it .

[Hoot Gibson]

I thought we settled that issue in PM Hoot, with apologies? The way I do things, is if I accept an apology, I never bring it up again. This latest post of mine wasn't any kind of insult, I merely pointed out to you that posting that video, knowing it had been cut and edited, was beneath you.

BTW, I don't count that other stuff as losing a debate. I guess we disagree on the difference in having no respect for something and ridiculing it.

It is common when there is a lot of background noise or multiple radio signals present to clean up the sound through filtering. The transmission was not fake according to the IDF but it was attributed to the captain for the flotilla flagship instead of to one of the other ships in the flotilla.

Undoubtedly, the audio that you attempted to post had also been cleaned up, or else it would have likely been very garbled. I would like to hear the untouched audio, but I understand that it is very common to filter out extraneous noises to focus on a voice of interest.

Once again, you are not being honest about what you posted originally. You did not say that you had no respect for "something," you said that you had lost all respect for me for posting the audio clip. A big difference and one that I am sure that you understand. So please, at least quote yourself accurately when you plead your case.

Now, you may have the last word because I am not going to get into another protracted mud slinging fest with you tonight. It is boring for other people and it is a waste of your time and mine.

[Hoot Gibson]

Here is the unedited audio clip of the exchange between the Israeli Navy and the flotilla, in case anybody wants to listen to the nearly 6 minute clip to hear the sound bites that were posted in the 27 second clip previously. Nobody claimed that the previous clip had not been condensed and its purpose was to highlight the anti-semitic rhetoric from the flotilla. The only error was attributing all of the broadcasts from the same ship.

The bottom line is that the flotilla was intended to provoke the reaction that it received. The mission was not the delivery of humanitarian aid because that aid could have been unloaded at an Israeli port and transported to Gaza on the ground as has been the case with previous aid shipments.

The ploy worked and Obama announced today that American taxpayers are going to reward Hamas by borrowing $400 million dollars and giving it to the Gazan government. Terrorism pays under the Obama regime and American taxpayers will foot the bill.

[YOUTUBE="Unedited audio from "peaceful" flotilla"]<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/AGtEoCX1GRo&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/AGtEoCX1GRo&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]

[Deathstar 80]

So pretty much in this thread, we're arguing whether or not the Israeli blockade on Gaza is legal or illegal. This is highly debatable, and I really don't think we will ever reach the truth to the legality of this blockade until we know completely about it (which unless we're the people running that blockade or to be apart of the United Nations who normally look over stuff like this, I don't think we'll ever be able to).

[Beetle01]

You are the one who asserted that Israel kills many times more civilians than the Gazan terrorists do and now you say that the ratio of dead Gaza civilians to dead Israeli civilians is almost 100 to 1 but you provide zilch to back up your claim.

Heck, if Israel were slaughtering innocent civilians at a 100 to 1 ratio without provocation, I could not support them. If you believe that to be a fact, then why do you support them?

Israel's big mistake has been bowing to US pressure and responding to unprovoked rocket attacks on its civilians "proportionately." I do not believe that Israel will make that mistake under Netanyahu. If we could have vaporized 10,000 or 100,000 al Qaeda members after 9/11, we would have not hesitated, and it is wrong for us to discourage Israel from making punitive attacks on its enemies in response to attacks on its people.

Just noticed something, I wanted to clarify, that was supposed to be 10-1 not 100-1.

[Hoot Gibson]

Just noticed something, I wanted to clarify, that was supposed to be 10-1 not 100-1.

That is much better - but still way too high, IMO. However, it is reasonable to believe that when a group of under educated, under trained, poorly led, poorly armed terrorists attack a much stronger country and hide among women and children, the aggressors will die in much greater numbers than their enemy. It is unfortunate that there is so much collateral damage to the minority of Gazans who do not actively support Hamas, but that is not Israel's fault.

Israel is not killing innocent Egyptians and Jordanians because those nations are not allowing terrorist attacks to be launched from their soil. Israel gave up Gaza to the Palestinians despite critics warning that it would be used as a launching ground for Hamas' rockets, and that is exactly what has happened. There is nothing that Israel can do short of obliterating Gaza that will stop the terrorist attacks against its civilian population.

[vundy33]

Israel doesn't need to nuke Iran..they could destroy them without nukes easily, Iran doesn't even have nuclear capability yet much less weapons. And I really don't think Russia would touch Israel either.

[TheRealVille]

Israel doesn't need to nuke Iran..they could destroy them without nukes easily, Iran doesn't even have nuclear capability yet much less weapons. And I really don't think Russia would touch Israel either.

I would be for Israel lighting up that whole end of the Earth, as far as I'm concerned. I just want the American soldiers to be back here before it happens.

[Beetle01]

Israel doesn't need to nuke Iran..they could destroy them without nukes easily, Iran doesn't even have nuclear capability yet much less weapons. And I really don't think Russia would touch Israel either.

Israel is not as strong as you think, they have got their butts kicked in the last few outings. True they have the technological advantage, and they do have a small group of truly elite soldiers, however, their regular army isnt that special.

The biggest worry right now is if Turkey and Israel continue on their path. Turkey has about had it with Israel, and they were once good allies. I think this goes to show that Israel is over stepping a bit. Turkey would put it all over Israel, they have the same American made weapons as Israel, plus a better fighting force that has seen a lot more action over the past 8 years in Afghanistan.

Not to mention they are a valued NATO member who has been loyal to the American and European nations.

[vundy33]

I have to disagree with you about Turkey putting it all over Israel..I've worked with soldiers from both countries and the grunts from Israel don't play.

[Hoot Gibson]

A great parody by the flotilla terrorists who posed as peace activists.

[ame="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xdnhy5_latmatv-turkish-flotilla-choir-pres_news"]Dailymotion - LatmaTV: Turkish Flotilla Choir Presents: We Con The World - a News & Politics video@@AMEPARAM@@http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/video@@AMEPARAM@@video[/ame]

[Old School]

The number of Senators (87) signing this letter to the President who support Israel's actions in the flotilla incident surprised me.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-r...a-incident

[Deathstar 80]

I wanted to tell you guys that there might be a second flotilla sent to Israel. Glenn Beck has been talking about a possible second flotilla sent this May. I'm afraid that there are people who are trying to make Israel look bad. And I know that there are people suffering in the Gaza strip, but I'm pretty sure that there are people who want to exploit that problem to make Israel look bad. Right now, Israel is pretty much alone in the Middle East, especially after the revolution in Egypt and after our country has been continuously arguing with Israel.

[TheRealThing]

Hamas terrorizes some of the people of Gaza as much as they do Israel.

Why dont you look up the number killed by rocket strikes in Israel compared to the amount of civilians killed by Israel. Its extremely lopsided.

Deathstar there are portions of the Bible that say to help Israel. That doesnt mean back them and supply them with the means to commit mass murder.

Im not saying one side is right over the other. Im saying the idea of just putting out blind faith behind a government no matter what is beyond insane.

What happens if Turkey and Israel go to war? Turkey is a NATO member. Israel violates their airspace daily for no reason. If they are to go to war we are bound by all the treaties we have signed, including the same parts of those treaties we used to round up support for Afghanistan and Iraq.

Also, lets not act like all of the Israeli's are supportive of their government. The Likud party is not very popular right now, and will likely be out of office soon if they dont kick start the next world war before then. They have already stationed nuclear subs off of Iran. Do know that a nuclear strike by Israel against Iran will mean Russia will respond similarly on Israel.

God speaking of the nation Israel - Genesis 12:3 "And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all the families of the earth be blessed."

There are no conditions and no time frame and no exceptions here. Those who would be enemies of the nation Israel put themselves at odds with God. I have tremendous respect for the people and land of Israel. The Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is one of the most lucid and genuine men I have ever heard speak. The Jew deserves our support and our respect. They are God's Chosen People and I wish them GOD SPEED!

[TheRealVille]

God speaking of the nation Israel - Genesis 12:3 "And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all the families of the earth be blessed."

There are no conditions and no time frame and no exceptions here. Those who would be enemies of the nation Israel put themselves at odds with God. I have tremendous respect for the people and land of Israel. The Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is one of the most lucid and genuine men I have ever heard speak. The Jew deserves our support and our respect. They are God's Chosen People and I wish them GOD SPEED!

Only if you believe in the Bible. If not, they are just another country in the middle east. Why should my tax dollars support them if I'm not a bible person?