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12-20-2010, 09:32 AM
Executions still on hold, awaiting drug
http://nky.cincinnati.com/article/AB/201...iting-drug
Should the state get rid of the death penalty? Is it an effective punishment?
http://nky.cincinnati.com/article/AB/201...iting-drug
Should the state get rid of the death penalty? Is it an effective punishment?
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12-20-2010, 02:37 PM
Hang them for goodness sakes.
12-20-2010, 07:57 PM
Cant you still choose to die by firing squad?
12-21-2010, 11:36 PM
RunItUpTheGut Wrote:Cant you still choose to die by firing squad?Only the ones that were on DR when they changed the method.
12-22-2010, 06:59 AM
Its a waste of money and the error rate is way to high. Kentucky has executed 3 people since 1967, and 2 of them were volunteers who chose it over life sentences. Since the early 70's Kentucky courts have handed out 92 death sentences. 50 of those have exhausted the full appeals process with 42 of them being overturned, which is a ridiculous rate. 139 people in 26 states have been released from death row with proof of their innocence. Also you add that the average cost of a death row case is around 1.25million per case, its absurd to even pursue anymore.
Based on those facts I have to oppose the death penalty.
Based on those facts I have to oppose the death penalty.
12-22-2010, 01:54 PM
vundy33 Wrote:Ville, do you know around what year that was by chance?I don't have a clue. I would assume late 70's, early to mid 80's, but that's just a guess.
12-22-2010, 01:58 PM
Beetle01 Wrote:Its a waste of money and the error rate is way to high. Kentucky has executed 3 people since 1967, and 2 of them were volunteers who chose it over life sentences. Since the early 70's Kentucky courts have handed out 92 death sentences. 50 of those have exhausted the full appeals process with 42 of them being overturned, which is a ridiculous rate. 139 people in 26 states have been released from death row with proof of their innocence. Also you add that the average cost of a death row case is around 1.25million per case, its absurd to even pursue anymore.You make a good case. I'm probably with you on this one. I definitely am for the death penalty if it would take place a lot quicker after convicted. To me, 5 years should be the max to be alive after they are given the DP, if they are going to have a death penalty.
Based on those facts I have to oppose the death penalty.
12-22-2010, 04:53 PM
Beetle01 Wrote:Its a waste of money and the error rate is way to high. Kentucky has executed 3 people since 1967, and 2 of them were volunteers who chose it over life sentences. Since the early 70's Kentucky courts have handed out 92 death sentences. 50 of those have exhausted the full appeals process with 42 of them being overturned, which is a ridiculous rate. 139 people in 26 states have been released from death row with proof of their innocence. Also you add that the average cost of a death row case is around 1.25million per case, its absurd to even pursue anymore.Out of how many cases?
Based on those facts I have to oppose the death penalty.
When it is proved beyond doubt that you did a crime that deserves the death penalty then you should get no more than one appeal. That appeal process should not take more than one year after sentence handed out. After such time and after the onetime appeal, the death sentence should be carried out. That 1.25 million would drastically be reduced.
I am all for the death penalty, but the whole system needs to be overhauled. The whole penal system needs to be overhauled.
12-22-2010, 05:04 PM
The fiscal Conservative in me think it's a waste of money to continue with the Death Penalty. Cost about $20,000 to house a prisoner for a year (give or take) yet to execute you have multiple trials and just the trail cost can exceed $5 million plus 20+ years of housing the prisoner on death row(more expensive then general population).
So in the long run it could be much more cost effective to use life without parole instead of the death penalty.
Those of you who support the Tea Party any thoughts?
So in the long run it could be much more cost effective to use life without parole instead of the death penalty.
Those of you who support the Tea Party any thoughts?
12-22-2010, 05:48 PM
TheRealVille Wrote:You make a good case. I'm probably with you on this one. I definitely am for the death penalty if it would take place a lot quicker after convicted. To me, 5 years should be the max to be alive after they are given the DP, if they are going to have a death penalty.
I agree 100%.
I wish it was alot simpler and we would just put them to death. Great post by Beetle by the way. I didn't realize that Kentucky had only killed 3 people since the 70's. That's pathetic.
.
12-23-2010, 12:05 AM
I understand some of your all's reasoning for the quicker executions if proven beyond a doubt, but there have been cases where it has seemed so obvious to everyone involved that the person was guilty, and then boom some evidence shows up years later that shows he wasnt.
What if it was you who was on trial? What if you came home (lets hope this never happens to anyone) and found your wife dead in the floor, shot or stabbed, or w/e. You ran over to her and grabbed her trying to help her, covering yourself in blood, getting your dna all over everything, lets say the murder weapon is laying there and you grab it to look at it, you are likely in shock and not thinking right. Also, say there had been some recent incidents of you all arguing, the neighbors heard it, it was intense, maybe threats were made in anger. Maybe she had an affair or something of the like, but that other guy has a rock solid alibi. I mean it COULD happen.
Im a fairly conservative guy, and I just dont feel its my place to take another mans life other than in defense or in war. Luckily Ive never had to. A lot of people's argument is its cheaper than housing them for years, but that has proven to be wrong, and I dont think with the number of errors that have occurred you can truly justify shortening and speeding up the process. Even 1 is to many, because that 1 could be me or you, you never know.
What if it was you who was on trial? What if you came home (lets hope this never happens to anyone) and found your wife dead in the floor, shot or stabbed, or w/e. You ran over to her and grabbed her trying to help her, covering yourself in blood, getting your dna all over everything, lets say the murder weapon is laying there and you grab it to look at it, you are likely in shock and not thinking right. Also, say there had been some recent incidents of you all arguing, the neighbors heard it, it was intense, maybe threats were made in anger. Maybe she had an affair or something of the like, but that other guy has a rock solid alibi. I mean it COULD happen.
Im a fairly conservative guy, and I just dont feel its my place to take another mans life other than in defense or in war. Luckily Ive never had to. A lot of people's argument is its cheaper than housing them for years, but that has proven to be wrong, and I dont think with the number of errors that have occurred you can truly justify shortening and speeding up the process. Even 1 is to many, because that 1 could be me or you, you never know.
12-23-2010, 02:20 AM
Beetle01 Wrote:I understand some of your all's reasoning for the quicker executions if proven beyond a doubt, but there have been cases where it has seemed so obvious to everyone involved that the person was guilty, and then boom some evidence shows up years later that shows he wasnt.
What if it was you who was on trial? What if you came home (lets hope this never happens to anyone) and found your wife dead in the floor, shot or stabbed, or w/e. You ran over to her and grabbed her trying to help her, covering yourself in blood, getting your dna all over everything, lets say the murder weapon is laying there and you grab it to look at it, you are likely in shock and not thinking right. Also, say there had been some recent incidents of you all arguing, the neighbors heard it, it was intense, maybe threats were made in anger. Maybe she had an affair or something of the like, but that other guy has a rock solid alibi. I mean it COULD happen.
Im a fairly conservative guy, and I just dont feel its my place to take another mans life other than in defense or in war. Luckily Ive never had to. A lot of people's argument is its cheaper than housing them for years, but that has proven to be wrong, and I dont think with the number of errors that have occurred you can truly justify shortening and speeding up the process. Even 1 is to many, because that 1 could be me or you, you never know.
Great post sir. I can't even think of anything to add.
12-23-2010, 02:41 AM
MiddlesboroAlumni Wrote:Great post sir. I can't even think of anything to add.What if a person is on tape stabbing the **** right out of someone? What if 20 people all saw a person shoot someone in cold blood?
In cases like that, refer to my earlier post.
Also peodphiles should be added to the list. When you rape a child what do you have to offer society? There is no rehabilitation for people like that. End them.
12-23-2010, 04:00 AM
Amun-Ra Wrote:What if a person is on tape stabbing the **** right out of someone? What if 20 people all saw a person shoot someone in cold blood?
In cases like that, refer to my earlier post.
Also peodphiles should be added to the list. When you rape a child what do you have to offer society? There is no rehabilitation for people like that. End them.
I agree! And it cost too much to keep this type of scum in prison! They need to be on the fast track to 'ol Sparky!
12-23-2010, 04:47 AM
Amun-Ra, there are maybe a handful of cases a decade that fit that criteria. And even then, do we know what led up to the incident, the video doesnt always show everything, so we should completely change the system for a few incidents.
Also, I guess if some kid in HS turns 18, and has a younger gf, and they are sexually active, he should get the death penalty. Dont say it doesnt happen, I know someone personally it happened to from when I was in HS. Absolutely destroyed his life. Just because the parents of that girl were complete Aholes.
My point being is it is not always so black and white, and changing to such drastic things can have consequences beyond what we can see, especially when dealing with life and death. Do I think if some guy rapes a little girl they deserve to just be taken out back and shot in the head, of course I do. But Im not for changing our justice system to see them put to death, when in reality a life term in prison or 50 years or w/e is probably much worse. And cheaper.
Also, I guess if some kid in HS turns 18, and has a younger gf, and they are sexually active, he should get the death penalty. Dont say it doesnt happen, I know someone personally it happened to from when I was in HS. Absolutely destroyed his life. Just because the parents of that girl were complete Aholes.
My point being is it is not always so black and white, and changing to such drastic things can have consequences beyond what we can see, especially when dealing with life and death. Do I think if some guy rapes a little girl they deserve to just be taken out back and shot in the head, of course I do. But Im not for changing our justice system to see them put to death, when in reality a life term in prison or 50 years or w/e is probably much worse. And cheaper.
12-23-2010, 11:03 AM
Life in prison with NO CHANCE of parole is a much stiffer penalty than the death penalty. Imagine the next 60+ years of your life in the general population and have no hope of ever being free. Every day, year after year no hope plus the government will no be "putting" you to sleep. How deep would your despair be? Not to mention living in the general population. Do some research on Jeffery Dahmer and see what life in the general population is like for someone who has done horrendous acts.
12-23-2010, 01:04 PM
nky Wrote:Life in prison with NO CHANCE of parole is a much stiffer penalty than the death penalty. Imagine the next 60+ years of your life in the general population and have no hope of ever being free. Every day, year after year no hope plus the government will no be "putting" you to sleep. How deep would your despair be? Not to mention living in the general population. Do some research on Jeffery Dahmer and see what life in the general population is like for someone who has done horrendous acts.
I dont think that compares with a after life in ****. They take someones life and their 100% sure they did it, Let em fry, hang, drug, whatever. There afterlife will be much worse than this one.
12-23-2010, 03:17 PM
I say let condemned killers choose their own poison...literally. Spare no expense on defense counsel but once they are sentenced, ensure that death comes swiftly for those convicted on capital charges. The current system needs to be fixed but the technology is available to virtually guarantee that no innocent defendants are put to death.
The litmus test for the application of the death penalty should be whether a defendant's guilt can be established beyond reasonable doubt using two independent sets of evidence or more. For example, if three eyewitnesses make positive IDs of the murderer and DNA evidence supports the eyewitness accounts, the chances of wrongfully sentencing somebody to death would be on the scale of trillions to one. Likewise, somebody convicted in two murders committed in separate locations at separate times should be sentenced to death.
The litmus test for the application of the death penalty should be whether a defendant's guilt can be established beyond reasonable doubt using two independent sets of evidence or more. For example, if three eyewitnesses make positive IDs of the murderer and DNA evidence supports the eyewitness accounts, the chances of wrongfully sentencing somebody to death would be on the scale of trillions to one. Likewise, somebody convicted in two murders committed in separate locations at separate times should be sentenced to death.
12-23-2010, 05:52 PM
Wildcatk23 Wrote:I dont think that compares with a after life in ****. They take someones life and their 100% sure they did it, Let em fry, hang, drug, whatever. There afterlife will be much worse than this one.The end will come no matter what. The death Penalty as we carry it out in KY is not a deterrent, not cost effective, and not 100% accurate even with DNA and other evidence.
12-30-2010, 11:26 AM
Beetle01 cites a lot of "facts" but offers no authority for any of it. I suspect his information was gleamed from some rather liberal sources.
I am neither completely for or against the death penalty. I am far more concerned with the death penalty practiced daily upon the most innocent of our population- the preborn. Advances in science, such as DNA, have vastly strengthened the argument, indeed destroyed any real doubt, that a preborn is a separate being from the moment of conception. But, I need not digress from the theme of the thread.
I am also more concerned about the rights of the victims and their families than I am about the overstated rights of the perpetrator.
The real problem with the death penalty as practiced in this country and in this commonwealth is that punishment is unduly delayed for years- even decades. A famous jurist stated long ago that justice must be swift. In this area of jurisprudence, it obviously is not swift. For those of you who are concerned about the cost involved, these needless and baseless delays cause the cost to escalate to unreasonable numbers.
The overwhelming number of those on death row, guilt really no issue, die of old age. The old joke often stated among those in the legal profession is that the safest place to be in Kentucky is on death row at Eddyville because it assures a long life with plenty of food, shelter, clothing, and access to medical care. And all this is free, by the way.
For the death penalty to serve its intended purpose, one I do not oppose, it must be carried out within a reasonable period of time. Endless appeals have become worse than ridiculous. After the usual procedural appeals, all of which are reasonable, the process becomes a circus designed solely to delay justice. Appeals are rarely made on the facts of the case but, instead, upon the nuances of the trial. Defense attorneys object to most everything, including ther color of the prosecutors tie, and then glean the record for any alleged error that might be a basis for delay and appeal. Since our legal system is strongly weighted in favor of the accused and since it is carried out by human beings, the process is not difficult for even a novice defense attorney.
By the time the punishment is carried out, if indeed it is ever carried out, years and years have passed. The victims are long forgotten other than by their families. The crime and its details are long forgotten. Only the perpetrator is in the picture and, of course, he (rarely she) has become, often by plan, a sad figure deserving of our compassion. This is ridiculous.
I could mention the burden of proof placed upon the prosecution and the lack thereof placed upon the defense but I have orated far too much. Thus, I will close by asking that you occasionally review the facts and think about the victims and their families. After all, it is more likely that you will be struck by a BMW and a Mercedes on the same day than it is that you will be an innocent victim of the death penalty.
I am neither completely for or against the death penalty. I am far more concerned with the death penalty practiced daily upon the most innocent of our population- the preborn. Advances in science, such as DNA, have vastly strengthened the argument, indeed destroyed any real doubt, that a preborn is a separate being from the moment of conception. But, I need not digress from the theme of the thread.
I am also more concerned about the rights of the victims and their families than I am about the overstated rights of the perpetrator.
The real problem with the death penalty as practiced in this country and in this commonwealth is that punishment is unduly delayed for years- even decades. A famous jurist stated long ago that justice must be swift. In this area of jurisprudence, it obviously is not swift. For those of you who are concerned about the cost involved, these needless and baseless delays cause the cost to escalate to unreasonable numbers.
The overwhelming number of those on death row, guilt really no issue, die of old age. The old joke often stated among those in the legal profession is that the safest place to be in Kentucky is on death row at Eddyville because it assures a long life with plenty of food, shelter, clothing, and access to medical care. And all this is free, by the way.
For the death penalty to serve its intended purpose, one I do not oppose, it must be carried out within a reasonable period of time. Endless appeals have become worse than ridiculous. After the usual procedural appeals, all of which are reasonable, the process becomes a circus designed solely to delay justice. Appeals are rarely made on the facts of the case but, instead, upon the nuances of the trial. Defense attorneys object to most everything, including ther color of the prosecutors tie, and then glean the record for any alleged error that might be a basis for delay and appeal. Since our legal system is strongly weighted in favor of the accused and since it is carried out by human beings, the process is not difficult for even a novice defense attorney.
By the time the punishment is carried out, if indeed it is ever carried out, years and years have passed. The victims are long forgotten other than by their families. The crime and its details are long forgotten. Only the perpetrator is in the picture and, of course, he (rarely she) has become, often by plan, a sad figure deserving of our compassion. This is ridiculous.
I could mention the burden of proof placed upon the prosecution and the lack thereof placed upon the defense but I have orated far too much. Thus, I will close by asking that you occasionally review the facts and think about the victims and their families. After all, it is more likely that you will be struck by a BMW and a Mercedes on the same day than it is that you will be an innocent victim of the death penalty.
12-30-2010, 12:20 PM
Here ya go Harry.
http://dpa.ky.gov/ci/dp.htm
So if we would have been going by your advice, there would be a lot of dead innocent people who were found guilty but years later found to be innocent. I cant bring back someone who was murdered, but what I can do is support legislation and policies that will help prevent the death of another innocent person. Not to mention being cost effective to our state.
Obviously people feel different about the issue, but to me Id much rather give people a chance to prove their innocence, than hurry up and put to death those who are truly guilty which would lead to the death of innocent men and women.
http://dpa.ky.gov/ci/dp.htm
So if we would have been going by your advice, there would be a lot of dead innocent people who were found guilty but years later found to be innocent. I cant bring back someone who was murdered, but what I can do is support legislation and policies that will help prevent the death of another innocent person. Not to mention being cost effective to our state.
Obviously people feel different about the issue, but to me Id much rather give people a chance to prove their innocence, than hurry up and put to death those who are truly guilty which would lead to the death of innocent men and women.
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