[Stardust]

I don't understand why this post is still going. Johnson Central fans, you were beaten again by Highlands, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. You were simply beaten again. It may hurt to accept it but it's true. Have some class and congratulate Highland on being the better team and move on. Some of you all make me embarrassed to be from eastern Kentucky. We have a bad enough reputation as it is. Don't make it worse.

Westie, I think it's OK. Bottom-line, one team won, the other lost. When you win, you want to gloat about how good you were. When you lose, you want to find ways to defend yourself - It's pride, one team gets to continue to press their pride, the other wants to defend it. In either case, it's all good natured "Hatfield & McCoy". It's no more a bad mark on EKY as it is for those of us in NKY that do the same thing. Both teams fans will bark until the next match-up, and that's what makes it all fun for all of us.

I'd throw up the :igiveup:, but all of us, win or lose need to vent. I think everyone loves to hate "on" each other, but I doubt than anyone really "Hate" the other. I love Hoot, the "Eagle", Bob Seger and all the rest, but it sure is fun to pull each other's chains. It's all good!

[Westside]

Westie, I think it's OK. Bottom-line, one team won, the other lost. When you win, you want to gloat about how good you were. When you lose, you want to find ways to defend yourself - It's pride, one team gets to continue to press their pride, the other wants to defend it. In either case, it's all good natured "Hatfield & McCoy". It's no more a bad mark on EKY as it is for those of us in NKY that do the same thing. Both teams fans will bark until the next match-up, and that's what makes it all fun for all of us.

I'd throw up the :igiveup:, but all of us, win or lose need to vent. I think everyone loves to hate "on" each other, but I doubt than anyone really "Hate" the other. I love Hoot, the "Eagle", Bob Seger and all the rest, but it sure is fun to pull each other's chains. It's all good!

I guess you're right Stardust. I guess I should just stay out of it.

[Blau Vogel]

Since a few of you like to talk about if's. What if HHS had not completed the TD pass at the end of the first half, (Which IMO took a perfect throw) and what if the DB had not fallen down on the 4th and 11 play on HHS last scoring drive? The game could it have been tied 7 all at the end of regulation.

By all accounts, JC had the perfect O game plan. What hasn't been mentioned is that Highlands had a perfect-ER D game plan. JJ runs for a couple thousand last week but can't get a hundo tonight. JC scores 30+ per game, tonight 7. Were it not for the only two turnovers in the game, 28 - 7 or 35 - 7 would have been the likely outcome.

I know turnovers are a part of the game but so are dropped passes and poor clock management.

INMVHO, JC played as well as they could, leaving it all on the field, on both sides of the ball. The Birds offense played good enough to win. Their defense overcame the only two turnovers in the game and played like champions.

[Stardust]

^ pretty solid post. You certainly are correct that the HHS D had the "Perfect" gameplan!

[Can you dig it?]

By all accounts, JC had the perfect O game plan. What hasn't been mentioned is that Highlands had a perfect-ER D game plan. JJ runs for a couple thousand last week but can't get a hundo tonight. JC scores 30+ per game, tonight 7. Were it not for the only two turnovers in the game, 28 - 7 or 35 - 7 would have been the likely outcome.

I know turnovers are a part of the game but so are dropped passes and poor clock management.

INMVHO, JC played as well as they could, leaving it all on the field, on both sides of the ball. The Birds offense played good enough to win. Their defense overcame the only two turnovers in the game and played like champions.

:worthy:

[Old School]

By all accounts, JC had the perfect O game plan. What hasn't been mentioned is that Highlands had a perfect-ER D game plan. JJ runs for a couple thousand last week but can't get a hundo tonight. JC scores 30+ per game, tonight 7. Were it not for the only two turnovers in the game, 28 - 7 or 35 - 7 would have been the likely outcome.

I know turnovers are a part of the game but so are dropped passes and poor clock management.

INMVHO, JC played as well as they could, leaving it all on the field, on both sides of the ball. The Birds offense played good enough to win. Their defense overcame the only two turnovers in the game and played like champions.

Every game is full of if's on both sides, several HHS supporters made comments that "if" this or that, the game would have been a blowout. My point was that "if" this or that happened the game could have had a different outcome. However we will never know what would have happened only what did happen. Highlands won in a hard fought game, and I wish them the best of luck next week.

[Blau Vogel]

Every game is full of if's on both sides, several HHS supporters made comments that "if" this or that, the game would have been a blowout. My point was that "if" this or that happened the game could have had a different outcome. However we will never know what would have happened only what did happen. Highlands won in a hard fought game, and I wish them the best of luck next week.

:Thumbs:

[kypecos]

I bet that we could keep this thread going till next year's playoffs if the mods let us.

[Stardust]

I bet that we could keep this thread going till next year's playoffs if the mods let us.

If I still count, I have no intent in closing....

[Bob Seger]

I don't understand why this post is still going. Johnson Central fans, you were beaten again by Highlands, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. You were simply beaten again. It may hurt to accept it but it's true. Have some class and congratulate Highland on being the better team and move on. Some of you all make me embarrassed to be from eastern Kentucky. We have a bad enough reputation as it is. Don't make it worse.

You are exactly right there is no doubt of who scored the most points in this game and who won. When a team scores more points than the other team they are considered the better team. Now with that out of the way. I cant speak for anyone else, but I am not upset that JC lost in the least. They played hard and almost perfect. What is there to get mad about, or make excuses over, and it certainly doesn't hurt in the least to say it. Actually I think it is more Highlands fans doing the what if's than it is the Central fans, (i.e. fluke fumbles), it should have been a blowout, and all that rhetoric. Anyways, forget all of that.

My whole point is that it defies logic for this constant rant that the JC offensive system doesn't work, it's outdated, HHS abandoned it in 1968, yada, yada, yada. Throw all of the obstacles that factored into the game in a pile and you still come to the end result that yes the system did work and it was good enough to beat HHS if just more more play would have been executed correctly.

I just cant understand how someone that actually watched the game can say it didn't when the whole game came down to A) there was a breakdown in the HHS secondary coverage on 3rd down that left a JC receiver standing wide open in the end zone, and B) the JC receiver did not seal the deal on a perfectly thrown ball. Forget all the comments of clock mismanagement and the commentary on other variables like HHS dominated this, HHS dominated that, HHS shut Jude down, JC should have thrown more, HHS should have passed more, etc., etc., etc. The bottom line is that when the game was on the line none of any of all that mattered. Part A and part B tells the only story that mattered in the end. Bad systems do not put you into a position to win games against really great teams that probably have way more talent and without a doubt much greater depth. That is my arguement, and nothing more.

Lastly, I dont know how any other fan of any other team can have the nerve to criticize JC's shortfalls. JC has proven for 3 straight years now they can compete with em far better than their teams can by a long shot. Even those with those high tech, new fangled, sophisticated offensive schemes that they so proudly puff their chests out over.. Perhaps some of those schools need to get back to basics and start looking at our sytem and how it works just to get a shot at knocking them off. Their's are obviously not working out as well as planned. At least we are getting the shot. They can only dream of being in our position.

[Bob Seger]

Originally Posted by Boozer
I have to agree with Y (y) ou 2dog... That(')s how HHS is were(where) their(they're) at year end(in) and year out. If HHS does not fumble(,) it(')s 28 to 7.

I guess the family that posts together, stays together.

Good one Bob. If you tried to correct the spelling on all the threads, you would go insane.

Well, not really interested in being a grammar policeman, just confirming the theory that "birds of a feather................."

[Stardust]

You are exactly right there is no doubt of who scored the most points in this game and who won. When a team scores more points than the other team they are considered the better team. Now with that out of the way. I cant speak for anyone else, but I am not upset that JC lost in the least. They played hard and almost perfect. What is there to get mad about, or make excuses over, and it certainly doesn't hurt in the least to say it. Actually I think it is more Highlands fans doing the what if's than it is the Central fans, (i.e. fluke fumbles), it should have been a blowout, and all that rhetoric. Anyways, forget all of that.

My whole point is that it defies logic for this constant rant that the JC offensive system doesn't work, it's outdated, HHS abandoned it in 1968, yada, yada, yada. Throw all of the obstacles that factored into the game in a pile and you still come to the end result that yes the system did work and it was good enough to beat HHS if just more more play would have been executed correctly.

I just cant understand how someone that actually watched the game can say it didn't when the whole game came down to A) there was a breakdown in the HHS secondary coverage on 3 down that left a JC receiver standing wide open in the end zone, and B) the JC receiver did not seal the deal on a perfectly thrown ball. Forget all the comments of clock mismanagement and the commentary on other variables like HHS dominated this, HHS dominated that, HHS shut Jude down, JC should have thrown more, HHS should have passed more, etc., etc., etc. The bottom line is that when the game was on the line none of any of all that mattered. Part A and part B tells the only story that mattered in the end. Bad systems do not put you into a position to win games against really great teams that probably have way more talent and without a doubt much greater depth. That is my arguement, and nothing more.

Lastly, I dont know how any other fan of any other team can have the nerve to criticize JC's shortfalls. JC has proven for 3 straight years now they can compete with em far better than their teams can by a long shot. Even those with those high tech, new fangled, sophisticated offensive schemes that they so proudly puff their chests out over.. Perhaps some of those schools need to get back to basics and start looking at our sytem and how it works just to get a shot at knocking them off. Their's are obviously not working out as well as planned. At least we are getting the shot. They can only dream of being in our position.

But who's scheme is at home for 3 straight years? Maybe, adding something else can get you over the top????? Buffalo Bills will forever be thought of as the team who lost five superbowls, and no one recognizes them for just being good enough to get there. No knock from me, but your thought does have a few shortcomings.

[Can you dig it?]

My whole point is that it defies logic for this constant rant that the JC offensive system doesn't work, it's outdated, HHS abandoned it in 1968, yada, yada, yada. Throw all of the obstacles that factored into the game in a pile and you still come to the end result that yes the system did work and it was good enough to beat HHS if just more more play would have been executed correctly.

The problem with this logic is that the system that was in place on Friday night wasn't the JC system that we've seen the last two times the teams met. If the JC offensive system actually worked, wouldn't they have "smash-mouthed" the ball down the throat of the Highlands defense instead of trying to pass the ball on that last drive? Matney apparently made some changes because he realized that "mountain football" needed to adapt to "caketown football" to be able to keep the game close. Combine the JC running game with any kind of a passing attack and they may have already won a 5A championship.
Welcome to the 20th century. The forward pass is a wonderful thing.

[Bob Seger]

But who's scheme is at home for 3 straight years? Maybe, adding something else can get you over the top????? Buffalo Bills will forever be thought of as the team who lost five superbowls, and no one recognizes them for just being good enough to get there. No knock from me, but your thought does have a few shortcomings.

Not really, but to impliment the system that some suggest means having the qualified athlete to execute it. That is not possible at this time. Matney is not nearly as anti-pass as some suggest he may be. He has set state records in the passing department as well as now rushing. What he is simply doing is molding his system to compliment the avaiilable talent he has on hand to make his teams the most competitive he can in the post season. I dont think Dale Mueller can bring his system to Johnson Co. and create a better team than what Jim Matney puts on the field. By the way, who else is beating Highlands?

[sstack]

Since a few of you like to talk about if's. What if HHS had not completed the TD pass at the end of the first half, (Which IMO took a perfect throw) and what if the DB had not fallen down on the 4th and 11 play on HHS last scoring drive? The game could it have been tied 7 all at the end of regulation.

You are right, it takes a perfect pass, and HHS fans have had the privilege to see him make passes like that all year. Yes he has made some bad passes too, but the boy has an arm and is fun to watch.

[sstack]

Westie, I think it's OK. Bottom-line, one team won, the other lost. When you win, you want to gloat about how good you were. When you lose, you want to find ways to defend yourself - It's pride, one team gets to continue to press their pride, the other wants to defend it. In either case, it's all good natured "Hatfield & McCoy". It's no more a bad mark on EKY as it is for those of us in NKY that do the same thing. Both teams fans will bark until the next match-up, and that's what makes it all fun for all of us.

I'd throw up the :igiveup:, but all of us, win or lose need to vent. I think everyone loves to hate "on" each other, but I doubt than anyone really "Hate" the other. I love Hoot, the "Eagle", Bob Seger and all the rest, but it sure is fun to pull each other's chains. It's all good!

great post, I have always thought people take these forums way too serious. One good thing, UK basketball has started and the majority of us all pull together this time of year.

[Bob Seger]

The problem with this logic is that the system that was in place on Friday night wasn't the JC system that we've seen the last two times the teams met. If the JC offensive system actually worked, wouldn't they have "smash-mouthed" the ball down the throat of the Highlands defense instead of trying to pass the ball on that last drive? Matney apparently made some changes because he realized that "mountain football" needed to adapt to "caketown football" to be able to keep the game close. Combine the JC running game with any kind of a passing attack and they may have already won a 5A championship.
Welcome to the 20th century. The forward pass is a wonderful thing.

That has some truth to it, but what passing game you saw friday was just about all ran out of a running formation and used as an element of surprise.

Matney has very much been in the 20th century. If you check the KHSAA passing records you will find some of his teams and players very high on the list. Without me going into detail all over again, please check my previous post.

[Bob Seger]

You are right, it takes a perfect pass, and HHS fans have had the privilege to see him make passes like that all year. Yes he has made some bad passes too, but the boy has an arm and is fun to watch.

Since Towles is Jim Bunning's grandson and does possess a bazooka, does he play baseball too?

[Stardust]

Not really, but to impliment the system that some suggest means having the qualified athlete to execute it. That is not possible at this time. Matney is not nearly as anti-pass as some suggest he may be. He has set state records in the passing department as well as now rushing. What he is simply doing is molding his system to compliment the avaiilable talent he has on hand to make his teams the most competitive he can in the post season. I dont think Dale Mueller can bring his system to Johnson Co. and create a better team than what Jim Matney puts on the field. By the way, who else is beating Highlands?

Then I'd say that Matney and Dale are similar. HHS has been very fortunate to have the arms that allows HHS to establish a more balanced attack. However, there is NO ONE in NKY that thinks HHS is a passing team, besides may Highlands themselves. Even with guys like Guidugli, Lorenzon, et-al, HHS has always been considered a running team from those of us that are not Birds fans.

What I like about what you said of Matney is take the strengths you have and build on them. That's fair and is good coaching. I still think a few more passes in the first half could have put JC in the endzone. They had two chances to put TD's on the board, and stuck to the running game. As the game progressed, it proved they could have passed, but they did not change their gameplan. I've heard a lot about gameplan being so good, but the gameplan failed on those two attempts in the first half. You put 7 on the board with a pass, HHS has to play that game differently on D.

[Sweet Cake]

Despite the fact that JC has yet to beat Highlands, I think Matney's offense is a very good offense to run against Highlands (and Cov. Cath for that matter). However, even though it is a great offense to attack both of these teams, the fact that it requires almost perfect execution (no penalties that get you off schedule, no negative yardage plays, no turnovers, etc) week after week, makes it almost an impossible offense to win a state championship with.

[Bob Seger]

Then I'd say that Matney and Dale are similar. HHS has been very fortunate to have the arms that allows HHS to establish a more balanced attack. However, there is NO ONE in NKY that thinks HHS is a passing team, besides may Highlands themselves. Even with guys like Guidugli, Lorenzon, et-al, HHS has always been considered a running team from those of us that are not Birds fans.

What I like about what you said of Matney is take the strengths you have and build on them. That's fair and is good coaching. I still think a few more passes in the first half could have put JC in the endzone. They had two chances to put TD's on the board, and stuck to the running game. As the game progressed, it proved they could have passed, but they did not change their gameplan. I've heard a lot about gameplan being so good, but the gameplan failed on those two attempts in the first half. You put 7 on the board with a pass, HHS has to play that game differently on D.

The theory is good, however I'm not totally sure a deliberate shown attempt to go to the air would have had the same rate of success if you take the element of surprise away..

[Hoot Gibson]

Despite the fact that JC has yet to beat Highlands, I think Matney's offense is a very good offense to run against Highlands (and Cov. Cath for that matter). However, even though it is a great offense to attack both of these teams, the fact that it requires almost perfect execution (no penalties that get you off schedule, no negative yardage plays, no turnovers, etc) week after week, makes it almost an impossible offense to win a state championship with.

That sounds like a reasonable argument but not every team on the road to a state title will require JC to execute its offense perfectly. In any of the past 3 seasons and in 2006 against CovCath, had JC managed to win the regional title, then they would have had a great shot at the state title. I doubt that we will see another team hold Highlands to 21 points this season and Johnson Central has been the only team to have done it.

[OrangenowBlue]

That sounds like a reasonable argument but not every team on the road to a state title will require JC to execute its offense perfectly. In any of the past 3 seasons and in 2006 against CovCath, had JC managed to win the regional title, then they would have had a great shot at the state title. I doubt that we will see another team hold Highlands to 21 points this season and Johnson Central has been the only team to have done it.

Good post.

[Sweet Cake]

That sounds like a reasonable argument but not every team on the road to a state title will require JC to execute its offense perfectly. In any of the past 3 seasons and in 2006 against CovCath, had JC managed to win the regional title, then they would have had a great shot at the state title. I doubt that we will see another team hold Highlands to 21 points this season and Johnson Central has been the only team to have done it.

Agreed and perfect might me a little strong of a word, but you get the point. Certainly against Highlands and in the championship games it would have required near perfection. In the second round, against Cov. Cath, this year Johnson Central rang up a record number of yards and just barely won. So this year it would have had to be 3 games of really solid execution.

[Aslan]

Grats Highlands, hope ya take another state title home.

[KyMizzle]

Congrats, Johnson Central, on playing a great game. They lose a very talented senior class, but I'm sure they have other fine athletes waiting in the nest ready to reload and get back at it in preparation for next season.

Congrats on the win, Highlands. Keep up the hard work.

[Blau Vogel]

Since a few of you like to talk about if's. What if HHS had not completed the TD pass at the end of the first half, (Which IMO took a perfect throw) and what if the DB had not fallen down on the 4th and 11 play on HHS last scoring drive? The game could it have been tied 7 all at the end of regulation.

It also could have been 35 - 7 at the end of regulation without the two turnovers by the Birds.

[Blau Vogel]

System comparison since 2004, Coach Matney's first year.

2004 JCHS 7 - 3 No playoffs - - - - - HHS 14 - 1 STATE CHAMPIONS
2005 JCHS 8 - 3 Lost in 1st round - - HHS 9 - 4 Lost in 3rd round
2006 JCHS 13 - 1 Lost in 4th round - HHS 7 - 5 Lost in 2nd round
2007 JCHS 10 - 3 Lost in 3rd round - HHS 15 - 0 STATE CHAMPIONS
2008 JCHS 11 - 2 Lost in 3rd round - HHS 14 - 1 STATE CHAMPIONS
2009 JCHS 8 - 5 Lost in 3rd round - - HHS 15 - 0 STATE CHAMPIONS
2010 JCHS 10 - 3 Lost in 3rd round - HHS 12 - 1 ???????????????????

In 2005, JCHS Lost to Madison Southern. HHS Lost to eventual state champions, LexCath.

In 2006, both teams lost to eventual state champions, CovCath.

In 2007, JCHS lost to Lincoln Co. Highlands beat LCHS, 49 - 27.

In 2008, 2009, 2010, JCHS lost to HHS.

[charlie22]

That was a great game by both teams and well coached by both coaches. I came away extremely impressed by Highlands' run defense and JC's passing offense. Ask me before the game if I thought that was going to occur and I'd have said no.

Jude remains to me a simply fantastic RB, but Highlands swarmed to the ball and tackled better than they have the entire year so far. Great job coaches and players.

Parker is a big target and moves well. On several 3rd and longs, Hall threw nice passes and Parker made great receptions.

I think some fans on both sides are wearing their tinted classes.

After stopping JC on the opening drive of the second half, Highlands was in position to really put the pressure on JC. If Highlands had scored and gone up by 21, JC would have had to pass the ball more. I realize I said earlier that JC passed the ball well in this game, but one can wonder (yet never know) if they'd have been as successful if Highlands had been looking for the pass. After the fumble return for a TD, JC was only down one score and Highlands D was forced to play run first D, which dramatically helped JC's passing game. The fumble changed not only momentum but the way Highlands played D in the second half. And it changed the way Highlands played O in the second half also. Up only one TD, Highlands could not afford to just run the ball and milk the clock. They had to pass the ball and we all know that passing the ball slows the clock.

On the other hand, JC very easily could have won this game. I don't understand why some Highlands fans don't see the game the way Mueller did as stated in the newspaper article. Given the fumble return for a TD, JC came roaring back and played extremely well. I was standing in that endzone and I don't know if the ball was tipped or knocked away (I haven't watched the tape yet); all I know is that the ball looked like it could have been caught. If JC had scored, I think Matney would have gone for two. Given how well our run defense had played, converting the 2 was not a sure thing, but .......

I wish both fans would acknowledge the close game that it was. Yes JC did benefit greatly from the fumble returned for a TD, and Highlands benefitted greatly from the dropped ball at the end of the game. Each got a break. I don't see how any one can say the better team lost or that Highlands would have dominated JC but for the fumble returned for a TD.

A tip of the hat to the JC seniors. I've watched Bratton, Hall, Ousley and the other seniors closely over the last several years. Those kids are football players that could play on my football team. I know the loss still stings and will continue to do so for quite some time. But after a while, they will find some comfort in knowing that they did every thing within their abilities to win, and that more than any thing else should be the standard to judge whether they were successful as high school football players.

And a tip of the hat to the Highlands players. I told a JC fan after last year's game that I favored JC to beat Highlands in 2010 if they matched up. The Birds don't have the overall talent of past Highlands teams; they don't always play the disciplined ball the way past Highlands teams have; but they have every bit the heart and desire to win as past Highlands teams. We've had some ugly wins and some tight wins this year, but at the end of the games, they've been wins and I'll take them, ugly or not. Keep it going. Harlan County is not going to be a push over.

To the coaches and players on both teams: thank you for allowing this fan the opportunity to watch one heck of a game. The games are not about the fans; it's about kids participating and playing hard. But I was surely a third party beneficiary of the players' efforts. Thank you.

[NCC41]

Well this is my sign off to the JC crew on here. It was great coming down to watch a great game. Several Highlands fans including me have said we will face no tougher team the rest of the year. To the young man that did not make the catch in the end zone. There were at least a dozen other plays that could have changed the entire complexion of the game around on both sides of the ball. We look forward to you all coming to the "Fort" next year. The loyalty you have for your team is something you should be very proud of.