[wooderson]

I really hate to step on toes here but the 97 bobcats were did break the top 50 nationally. They were totally unstoppable on a neutral field even the great dudley said it was the best high school team he had ever seen even though he won the championship that year at bourbon co. I would venture to guess he'd seen a few more high school teams than the nfl hall of famer. I love this thread and the breathitt bobcats and never had the opportunity to see the great panther teams of the past and have the upmost respect for them but the game had changed quite dramatically by the time this 97 team played and to imagine them being beat by a team of that stature is lunecy. You must know that the offensive line that year AVERAGED a 4.9 40 yard dash and 300+bench press. Skill kids were 4.7 - 4.4 and 250+. I just wish we could watch them play. They were ranked #1 overall and finished second behind highlands after losing to lawrence in the third round in one of the most unbelievable fields ive ever seen played on. For that field to be deemed playable may have been the comparable to deeming the titanic eligible for the next carribean cruise.

Im sorry, I just have to chuckle at the bolded. That offensive line could have played RB for 95% of mountain teams almost every year and I dont remember any skill positions on that team running a 4.4, not sure on the 250+ bench press. And further, how can we proclaim a team the "mightiest of the mountains" when they got beat by a very mediocre lawrence co. team and never won it all?

[Hatz]

Im sorry, I just have to chuckle at the bolded. That offensive line could have played RB for 95% of mountain teams almost every year and I dont remember any skill positions on that team running a 4.4, not sure on the 250+ bench press. And further, how can we proclaim a team the "mightiest of the mountains" when they got beat by a very mediocre lawrence co. team and never won it all?

My only problem with crowning Breathitt over Pikeville would be the "close calls" the team had each year on the way to the championship. That does not take anything away from their greatness but if you are trying to narrow it down to ONE great team then it is a factor.

Pikeville, if I remember right, was never challenged in the playoff run that year in '87. They played right before Danville that season and I saw them look pretty good in that title game.

But as I posted earlier, there ought to be some mention of the Corbin teams in '76 and '77. At least some conversation. Those Mayfield teams they faced were very good and those Hound teams were as big and strong as most any I ever saw in that era. :Thumbs:

[hulkamania]

Im sorry, I just have to chuckle at the bolded. That offensive line could have played RB for 95% of mountain teams almost every year and I dont remember any skill positions on that team running a 4.4, not sure on the 250+ bench press. And further, how can we proclaim a team the "mightiest of the mountains" when they got beat by a very mediocre lawrence co. team and never won it all?

Not sure if you're from pikeville or not, but if you are then surely you should remember a boy named jonathan chapman who played for breathitt before pikeville and recieved a scholarship to UK. High 4.4 and low 4.5 40 for him, Josh Ritchie, 4.49 40, tim barnett 4.6, jason white 4.6, darren salyers 4.7, kyle lively 4.7, need more??? Also, yes, that offensive line probably would've played skil positions anywhere else, but when you had guys as fast as they did, they had to be put somewhere. Just so you know Jason White benched over 300 pounds at 165 lbs. and johnathan was around 290. As far as them getting beat, maybe you didn't read the part where I said on a fair and neutral field cause I'm pretty sure I mentioned that, I'm not making excuses for that team, but I guess you just had to be there. Just be happy you never got the chance to meet that offensive line because if you had chuckled at them then things woud've gotten pretty ugly. But again, I would love to see a virtual game, that would be awesome.

[wooderson]

Not sure if you're from pikeville or not, but if you are then surely you should remember a boy named jonathan chapman who played for breathitt before pikeville and recieved a scholarship to UK. High 4.4 and low 4.5 40 for him, Josh Ritchie, 4.49 40, tim barnett 4.6, jason white 4.6, darren salyers 4.7, kyle lively 4.7, need more??? Also, yes, that offensive line probably would've played skil positions anywhere else, but when you had guys as fast as they did, they had to be put somewhere. Just so you know Jason White benched over 300 pounds at 165 lbs. and johnathan was around 290. As far as them getting beat, maybe you didn't read the part where I said on a fair and neutral field cause I'm pretty sure I mentioned that, I'm not making excuses for that team, but I guess you just had to be there. Just be happy you never got the chance to meet that offensive line because if you had chuckled at them then things woud've gotten pretty ugly. But again, I would love to see a virtual game, that would be awesome.

Ah yes I remember Chapman and Im not from Pikeville. What I do remember was he was vastly overrated. And as far as the times stated on the rest, was this a handheld timing by Breathitt's coaches because I just dont remember any of those players having break away speed in pads. "On a fair and neutral field"????? See thats what separates the really good teams and the few GREAT teams Ive seen. The great ones could go into any environment, field conditions or weather and still be great while the others just couldnt overcome. Breathitt had other teams go into hostile environments with as bad of conditions and still overcome, Im thinking Belfry around 2001 or 2002. FWIW I wasnt chuckling at the lineman rather at the post stating their times but from what I remember about that line my chuckling towards them wouldnt have garnered a hostile reaction based on their size. Ive encountered much much bigger people and ugly it may have got......probably for them. Thats my internet tough guy quote for the day.

[More Cowbell]

I really hate to step on toes here but the 97 bobcats were did break the top 50 nationally. They were ranked #1 overall and finished second behind highlands after losing to lawrence in the third round in one of the most unbelievable fields ive ever seen played on. For that field to be deemed playable may have been the comparable to deeming the titanic eligible for the next carribean cruise.

And further, how can we proclaim a team the "mightiest of the mountains" when they got beat by a very mediocre lawrence co. team and never won it all?

As far as them getting beat, maybe you didn't read the part where I said on a fair and neutral field cause I'm pretty sure I mentioned that, I'm not making excuses for that team, but I guess you just had to be there.

"On a fair and neutral field"????? See thats what separates the really good teams and the few GREAT teams Ive seen. The great ones could go into any environment, field conditions or weather and still be great while the others just couldnt overcome. Breathitt had other teams go into hostile environments with as bad of conditions and still overcome, Im thinking Belfry around 2001 or 2002.

I have to agree with wooderson here, making excuses about the field is pretty lame. The other team had to play under the same conditions as well, and elite teams don't let something like a muddy field beat them.

I also got a laugh about the "game had changed" comment. Really? We're talking about 8 years here, not like comparing modern teams to those from the 50's. The game didn't change that much from the late 80's to the mid 90's.

Bottom line, I'm not exactly a Pikeville fan, but I DO try to be objective. And like others have said, it's pretty hard to be considered the greatest mountain team ever when you can't even make it to your own state title game that year. Advantage PHS.

[hulkamania]

I have to agree with wooderson here, making excuses about the field is pretty lame. The other team had to play under the same conditions as well, and elite teams don't let something like a muddy field beat them.

I also got a laugh about the "game had changed" comment. Really? We're talking about 8 years here, not like comparing modern teams to those from the 50's. The game didn't change that much from the late 80's to the mid 90's.

Bottom line, I'm not exactly a Pikeville fan, but I DO try to be objective. And like others have said, it's pretty hard to be considered the greatest mountain team ever when you can't even make it to your own state title game that year. Advantage PHS.

My only problem with your assumptions is considering the fact that your saying I could make a better case for either the 95 or 96 teams when anyone who saw the teams could tell you that the 97 team was the best. I couldve gotten on here and argued for one of those teams but im being objective here. Both teams may have played on the same field but being prepared for such a mess is definitely in the favor of the team who got to practice in it all week since it did not rain a drop that week but somehow the field was under water. People say 02 was bad but I was at both no comparison. There were spots of 6 inches of standimg water in lawrence.

[hulkamania]

Ah yes I remember Chapman and Im not from Pikeville. What I do remember was he was vastly overrated. And as far as the times stated on the rest, was this a handheld timing by Breathitt's coaches because I just dont remember any of those players having break away speed in pads. "On a fair and neutral field"????? See thats what separates the really good teams and the few GREAT teams Ive seen. The great ones could go into any environment, field conditions or weather and still be great while the others just couldnt overcome. Breathitt had other teams go into hostile environments with as bad of conditions and still overcome, Im thinking Belfry around 2001 or 2002. FWIW I wasnt chuckling at the lineman rather at the post stating their times but from what I remember about that line my chuckling towards them wouldnt have garnered a hostile reaction based on their size. Ive encountered much much bigger people and ugly it may have got......probably for them. Thats my internet tough guy quote for the day.

What do you mean based on their size? If you are referring to them being small then lol you don't know much about football because the smaller the lineman the bigger the chip on his shoulder. So I must say facts can not be argued or downplayed only by those who refuse to accept reality

[hillbilly]

I saw the 86 Belfry team and coached against the Middlesboro team. The 87 Pikeville team that beat Henry Clay on their home field 28-7 while being ranked in the top of the 4A class is no doubt the best. The difference was up front where Pikeville could have played 10 linemen and not missed a beat.

[potlimit2002]

Were would you rank the 86 Belfry team? `I played against them they were Huge and deep and if I remember right there QB Wayne Fansisco went D-1 to WVU.

[More Cowbell]

My only problem with your assumptions is considering the fact that your saying I could make a better case for either the 95 or 96 teams when anyone who saw the teams could tell you that the 97 team was the best. I couldve gotten on here and argued for one of those teams but im being objective here. Both teams may have played on the same field but being prepared for such a mess is definitely in the favor of the team who got to practice in it all week since it did not rain a drop that week but somehow the field was under water. People say 02 was bad but I was at both no comparison. There were spots of 6 inches of standimg water in lawrence.

I might buy that the field was wet and muddy, and that there may have been some standing water in places.

But 6 inches?? Really? You're talking about water that would be over top of everyone's ankles. That's not standing water, that's a flood... :yikes: Not buying it, I believe someone exaggerated things a bit to you.

I still stand by the assertion that you can't be the best mountain team of all time if you didn't win state, especially if you were beat out of the playoffs by another MOUNTAIN team.

[PaytoPlay]

HUGE props for Panther Thunder for pulling out that old youtube video of the 87' Panthers.

IIRC they were rated top 25 in the COUNTRY! The size of those lineman were sick on that video. QB looked solid as a rock. I dunno, but looks like the winner to me.

[hulkamania]

I might buy that the field was wet and muddy, and that there may have been some standing water in places.

But 6 inches?? Really? You're talking about water that would be over top of everyone's ankles. That's not standing water, that's a flood... :yikes: Not buying it, I believe someone exaggerated things a bit to you.

I still stand by the assertion that you can't be the best mountain team of all time if you didn't win state, especially if you were beat out of the playoffs by another MOUNTAIN team.

Cant exaggerate facts. I was there and couldnt believe the game would be played but again here your saying I could make a better case for the teams that did win it all when this one was the best breathitt ever put on the field. I dont see how the greatest mountain team ever would be required to win it all because if this were the case you may not actually be talking about the greatest team but the gratest champion or dynasty. If this were the case I would have to agree vut I would have to put breathitt in a close second. Touche' on the mountain team beating them but i guess its one of those had to be there situations and I feel like im fighting a losing battle, not that I ever expected to change anyones opinion,but voice my own. With that said I personally feel that the 97 bobcats wouldve ended the game with their jv squad because it wouldve been a victory for the bobcats.

[More Cowbell]

Cant exaggerate facts. I was there and couldnt believe the game would be played but again here your saying I could make a better case for the teams that did win it all when this one was the best breathitt ever put on the field. I dont see how the greatest mountain team ever would be required to win it all because if this were the case you may not actually be talking about the greatest team but the gratest champion or dynasty. If this were the case I would have to agree vut I would have to put breathitt in a close second. Touche' on the mountain team beating them but i guess its one of those had to be there situations and I feel like im fighting a losing battle, not that I ever expected to change anyones opinion,but voice my own. With that said I personally feel that the 97 bobcats wouldve ended the game with their jv squad because it wouldve been a victory for the bobcats.

First off, unless someone was there with a ruler and measured out that there was actually 6 inches of water, I have a hard time believing it was that much. I believe you that it was A LOT of water, but 6 inches seems way too unrealistic. Was it just an estimation, because it may have seemed like more than it really was, especially if you were one of the ones that had to play in such terrible conditions.

But anyway, that's cool on the whole argument thing. You've got your opinion, I've got mine, everyone else on this thread has theirs, and it's all good. I personally doubt that anyone on this thread has been persuaded to believe anything other than what they originally felt was the best team to start with. It still makes for good discussion! :Thumbs:

[Tailback44]

2002 Breathitt Bobcats.

[potlimit2002]

I thought we would hear more from the Belfry People on this thread. I think the reason we have not heard much from the Belfry people is because they know how good the 1987 Pikeville team really was. When I first saw the Video of the 87 team I thought it was a college team at first. I still got 87 Pikeville at #1, #2 Back to back Champs of Breadhitt CO.

[KnightTime]

1993 Prestonsburg Blackcats!

[wooderson]

I thought we would hear more from the Belfry People on this thread. I think the reason we have not heard much from the Belfry people is because they know how good the 1987 Pikeville team really was. When I first saw the Video of the 87 team I thought it was a college team at first. I still got 87 Pikeville at #1, #2 Back to back Champs of Breadhitt CO.

And there you have it!!! I would love to sit here and type up all the ways that any certain team from Belfry was better than the '87 Panthers but I would be kidding myself to begin to entertain such thoughts. It pains me to admit it, along with the majority of Pirate fans, which is why you havent seen much input from the Belfry faithful. And yes potlimit, they did resemble a college team more than a high school team and im telling you the video doesnt do them justice. Just a scary scary team.

[EKUAlum05]

I thought we would hear more from the Belfry People on this thread. I think the reason we have not heard much from the Belfry people is because they know how good the 1987 Pikeville team really was. When I first saw the Video of the 87 team I thought it was a college team at first. I still got 87 Pikeville at #1, #2 Back to back Champs of Breadhitt CO.

The 2003/2004 Belfry teams and the 1986 Pirate team were easily among the Top 10 teams in the mountains all time. The 2003/2004 Belfry teams had the most dominant rushing offense in mountain history IMO, even moreso than those great Pikeville teams.




With that said, the 87 Panthers are in a class of their own and I have no problem admitting it. The ultimate test is this: Take all these great teams and ask yourself if they were THE best team in the entire state that year regardless of class. Not only do I feel Pikeville was in 1987, they earn bonus points for being at that level as a 1A team.

I said it before and will say it again, we can name GREAT teams..but that Panther team was TRANSCENDENT.

[Unregistered]

And there you have it!!! I would love to sit here and type up all the ways that any certain team from Belfry was better than the '87 Panthers but I would be kidding myself to begin to entertain such thoughts. It pains me to admit it, along with the majority of Pirate fans, which is why you havent seen much input from the Belfry faithful. And yes potlimit, they did resemble a college team more than a high school team and im telling you the video doesnt do them justice. Just a scary scary team.

Wooderson I would like to here a comparsion of the 85' 86' Belfry teams and the recent state Championship teams. I do know that the 85' 86' teams had over 100 Kids dressed and they had some huge Guys too. On a different note, here is a good example of how much talent JCHS has wasted over the years in 1986 they took there Freshmen team up to Pikeville for a JV game and Honaker and Deramus both played the whole game but JCHS won. That same Freshmen team smashed Breathitt Co and everyone they played. That Freshmen team went undefeated, well to make a long story short, 3 or 4 guys from that Freshmen team transferred and 5 or 6 others didn't even play football 2 year later. People think Matney is such a great coach for turning JCHS around but they have always been loaded with talent and huge numbers of kids. Politics and other problems have kept that school down. The classes he has had since he has been there have been average. He has 4 loaded classes coming up in the next 4 years.

[BoondockSaint]

I don't believe the 96 Belfry team was ever #1 in 3A at any point. The Pirates lost to Male 7-0 in the Pike County Bowl the week prior to the Honey Bowl game vs. Breathitt. That was the first year of Belfry using the spread offense with Soph QB Jonathan Wright at the reigns feeling out that position.

The 2004 Belfry team was one dimensional, but it was probably the single greatest one dimension the mountains has ever seen. I am not sure EKY will ever see a backfield that was as dominant as Jones, Howard, and Childress. Belfry faced basically an 11 man box every game and still noone came close to shutting them down.

Brad Hatfield was the QB in '96 from start to finish. Wright didn't begin playing until the next year.

[EKUAlum05]

Brad Hatfield was the QB in '96 from start to finish. Wright didn't begin playing until the next year.

Am I confusing this with 1997?

Was Campbell County Wright's debut?

[BoondockSaint]

Am I confusing this with 1997?

Was Campbell County Wright's debut?

It was the '97 football season but I can't remember the opponent. That was the senior season of Micah Caudill, Jack Queen, Josh Howard, Cliff Wallace, etc.

[wooderson]

Wooderson I would like to here a comparsion of the 85' 86' Belfry teams and the recent state Championship teams. I do know that the 85' 86' teams had over 100 Kids dressed and they had some huge Guys too. On a different note, here is a good example of how much talent JCHS has wasted over the years in 1986 they took there Freshmen team up to Pikeville for a JV game and Honaker and Deramus both played the whole game but JCHS won. That same Freshmen team smashed Breathitt Co and everyone they played. That Freshmen team went undefeated, well to make a long story short, 3 or 4 guys from that Freshmen team transferred and 5 or 6 others didn't even play football 2 year later. People think Matney is such a great coach for turning JCHS around but they have always been loaded with talent and huge numbers of kids. Politics and other problems have kept that school down. The classes he has had since he has been there have been average. He has 4 loaded classes coming up in the next 4 years.

Ok here's my take on some of Belfry's best teams including the '85 and '86 teams. The '85 team was loaded but probably surprised a lot of Belfry fans by getting as far as they did. Many thought '86 would be the year they would be mature and good enough to make a run at the title. '85 was probably anchored by an incredible defense including Cook, Johnson, Stepp, Castle, Keenan and many more great defense players. They started a junior QB who would go on to become arguably the best QB of all time at BHS. There playoff run was epic, a hard fought road win over Clay Co. who was lead by a Pennington kid who was all-state QB. Belfry had to win this game without their starting QB who was out with a knee injury and Todd Castle stepped in admirably to lead them to a narrow 7-6 win (I believe). They then traveled North to Newport to the second coldest Belfry game Ive ever witnessed. Brutally cold on the river and still having an ailing starting QB and their best linebacker playing sick pulled off another tough road win. The state championship game was there for the taking all game long but the Pirates couldnt get over the hump and a late interception by Francisco sealed their fate against Paducah 26-14. The '85 team was good but lacked athleticism it would have taken to beat the '87 Pikeville team.

The '86 team was supposed to be the ONE. Loaded everywhere with senior leadership and an abundance of youth with talent. Still led by their now senior QB and another great defense(led by Chan Marcum, two young stud LB and the Lunatic Fringe) but surprisingly a sophomore RB (Mikey Scott) became the home run hitter they needed to find. Pretty easy 1st playoff game I believe against Leslie Co. which preceded the game that any Belfry fan can talk about for hours. Also the one that Danville fans can complain about for hours due to unforeseen weather conditions. Danville was probably the favorite to win it all, full of speed but being on the road. Belfry was smashmouth and would grind it out on long possessions to keep the speedy Admirals off the field. In what turned out to be THE DRIVE, Belfry took it around 90 yards eating up almost all of the 4th quarter clock to pull out the win 21-14. Let me say as a bystander at that game that it seemed Doug "Devil" Webb may have carried the ball 15+ times on that last drive (all while supposedly being hungover). Belfry went on to the state championship where the offense decided to stay home in Pike Co. and again lost 14-0 to Owensboro. The '86, IMO, is the one closest to the '87 Panthers but again they would fall short in a matchup of the '87 Panthers. Too many weapons on that Pikeville team for any team to stop.

Sorry for the long story but it was some great memories as a teenager. Some other teams that may be ranked highly in Belfry lore is without a doubt the '79 team who beat Highlands at the Fort in the famous break away jersey game and went on to finish state runner up. The '89 team is top 3 in my opinion, started 1-3 and turned it around by stopping Pikeville's 33 game win streak and came a foot from beating Highlands in the semis and without a doubt going on to win Belfry's first championship. Obviously the '03 and '04 are up there with the '04 being a tad better due to the extra year of maturity for the backfield tandem of Jones and Howard.
I would rank them
1. '86
2. '04
3. '89
4. '03
5. '79
6. '85
And yet none of these teams were really even close to the athleticism, strength or size of that '87 Panther team.

[potlimit2002]

Thank you Wooderson sir that was a great post! I was a freshmen in HS at JCHS in 86' and I remember the game at Belfry that year very well. Here's the JCHS prospective, in 85' JCHS had played Belfry pretty tough and even beat Class A runner-up Paintsvile, so the expections for the 86 team were very high. JCHS had brought in Paul Rains to run the defense and he installed the "Wide Tackle SIX" which was all geared for stopping the Option of Belfry. The 86 JCHS team started the year 3-1 with wins over Ashland and Clay Co, it was Walter Brugh P-ville Coach who moved Joey Couch to tight end and ran the VEER and shredded that Wide Tackle six, so there was no need for JCHS to even go to Belfry. I remember "Devil Webb" he was Kind of a freak of Nature, no person shaped that way he is supposed to be able to move like that, kind of like a bowling ball! To give more of IDea of what was happening at JCHS in that time, Ronny Wells was Coach and in 1987 a very talented JCHS team was hit was a rash of Injuries lost a total of 9 starters for the year so there was no need for Beflry to Come to JCHS, when they DID it was not pretty. Anyway Wells had geared his whole program with the Goal of taking Down Belfry in 1988, he had the Talent to do it too guys like Chris Deaton (Marshall) Steve Estep (Navy) he also Had a True 4.4 QB and a 6 Foot 8 inch High Jumper and His Stepp son Greg Slone (western KY) Baseball. Anyway for some odd Reason Wells was fired as Coach an JCHS hired a guy I will call (ST). (ST) had never coached varsity football before, the 4.4 QB wouldn't play for (ST), Greg Slone who had returned a punt vs Belfry for TD the year before (VERY RARE THING), went to Paintsville with his brother JJ too, the high Jumper was moved to O-tackle. The 88 JC team was still a pretty good team finished 7-4 they lost in 2 overtimes to Paintsville in the Apple Bowl beat Breatitt CO, and came to Belfry unbeaton in the District. It started out a pretty good game but Belfry smashed them finally and JC would lose in the last Seconds to Clay CO and lose the tie breaker in the District. Very poor coaching from a rookie coach. Two guys from that 88 JCHS team got National Championship rings in College. Greg Slone was part of the 90' P-ville state Champ baseball team and the High Jumper got 2nd in the State and got a 1aa offer in Football and track from the Citdal. As far as (ST) goes he coached a few more years and totally destroyed JCHS football it was 7 or 8 years before JC would have winning record again. (ST) is still a big shot in JC but he will always be a loser in my book!!

[potlimit2002]

That 89' Highlands team was not a sister of the poor, they were led by Marty Moore a ALL-SEC linebacker that got a SUPERBOWL RING with New England.