[4_real]

i agree with the fact that we cant deep mine all of the coal.but how greedy has the coal companies gotten? they have resorted to strip mining the coal putting animals out of their natural born habitat, polluting streams, flooding homes, haveing the lives of children in danger by placeing ponds of hazordous waste directly behind schools and to be quite honest it seems as if for 8 years they could literally get away with murder. and for what? more money in don blankenships pocket. do we really need ALL of the coal? i understand that its a buisness. but even drug dealers eventually get through in jail putting lives in danger.

[Hoot Gibson]

You work in the coal industry, yet you voted for and defend Barry after he said he would bankrupt the coal industry.

I hope no one looses their job, but if they do I hope the ones that voted and support Obama are let go first.

People who do not understand how our economy works do not deserve to reap its benefits.

[Hoot Gibson]

i agree with the fact that we cant deep mine all of the coal.but how greedy has the coal companies gotten? they have resorted to strip mining the coal putting animals out of their natural born habitat, polluting streams, flooding homes, haveing the lives of children in danger by placeing ponds of hazordous waste directly behind schools and to be quite honest it seems as if for 8 years they could literally get away with murder. and for what? more money in don blankenships pocket. do we really need ALL of the coal? i understand that its a buisness. but even drug dealers eventually get through in jail putting lives in danger.

Surface mining has nothing to do with greed - no more so than any other business enterprise. Coal operators will choose whichever mining method is available to maximize profits. Maximizing profits is good for shareholders, it is good for employees, and it is good for the communities in which they operate. Companies struggling to stay in business are far more likely to resort to illegal shortcuts that put their workers and the environment at risk. When struggling companies suffer a major accident or environmental disaster, they simply file bankruptcy and close up shop. Profits are a good thing and they should be celebrated not demonized.

What if Massey had been nearly broke when the slurry spill happened? If Massey had gone out of business and left the area, do you think that the federal government would have cleaned up the creeks as quickly or as well?

Look at the BP spill as an example. The Obama administration is only now, more than two months after the spill, giving some large oil skimmers permission to operate in the Gulf. Obama received offers from the Dutch to send large skimmers to the Gulf three days after the spill and declined the offer. Why? Because accepting the offer would have required waiving the Jones Act, which is designed to protect US union jobs in our ports.

Be thankful that a coal company employs you and pray that they remain profitable because companies that lose money do not have employees for long.

[4_real]

Surface mining has nothing to do with greed - no more so than any other business enterprise. Coal operators will choose whichever mining method is available to MAXIMIZE PROFITS. Maximizing profits is good for shareholders, it is good for employees, and it is good for the communities in which they operate. Companies struggling to stay in business are far more likely to resort to illegal shortcuts that put their workers and the environment at risk. When struggling companies suffer a major accident or environmental disaster, they simply file bankruptcy and close up shop. Profits are a good thing and they should be celebrated not demonized.

What if Massey had been nearly broke when the slurry spill happened? If Massey had gone out of business and left the area, do you think that the federal government would have cleaned up the creeks as quickly or as well?

Look at the BP spill as an example. The Obama administration is only now, more than two months after the spill, giving some large oil skimmers permission to operate in the Gulf. Obama received offers from the Dutch to send large skimmers to the Gulf three days after the spill and declined the offer. Why? Because accepting the offer would have required waiving the Jones Act, which is designed to protect US union jobs in our ports.

Be thankful that a coal company employs you and pray that they remain profitable because companies that lose money do not have employees for long.

maximize profits? sir that is called greed when your not looking out for the wellbeing of other citizens and thinking of how u can squeeze a nickel out of a hogs a*$.
and as for the response to the oil spill, dont be such a hypocrit because all i hear from you conservitives is "less government". so dont expect the government to bail out another huge company. and trust me if obama was bush then that would have been cleaned up in the first hour. although he would have lacked the intellect, their was money involved and not the well being of human life. sounds alot like big coal and conservitives go hand in hand. late response to dieng citizens in new orleans, just like strip mining. thank God its time for a change. can we fix this? "YES WE CAN"

[Hoot Gibson]

maximize profits? sir that is called greed when your not looking out for the wellbeing of other citizens and thinking of how u can squeeze a nickel out of a hogs a*$.
and as for the response to the oil spill, dont be such a hypocrit because all i hear from you conservitives is "less government". so dont expect the government to bail out another huge company. and trust me if obama was bush then that would have been cleaned up in the first hour. although he would have lacked the intellect, their was money involved and not the well being of human life. sounds alot like big coal and conservitives go hand in hand. late response to dieng citizens in new orleans, just like strip mining. thank God its time for a change. can we fix this? "YES WE CAN"

It is amazing that one who employs such atrocious grammar and spelling in his posts devotes so much time insulting other people's intellectual capacities.

The goal of every business is to maximize profits, whether the owner is operating a hot dog stand or a multi-national corporation. Companies who regularly and intentionally ignore laws and treat their employees poorly do not maximize profits. It costs money to attract, train, and retain good employees. Only when there is a high unemployment rate and there is no competition for employees can companies get away with mistreating their employees.

As for the "YES WE CAN" chant, I am beginning to think that I have been had. No intelligent person working in the eastern Kentucky coal industry could possible be that delusional after experiencing 18 months of Obama's failed policies.

[Wildcatk23]

It is amazing that one who employs such atrocious grammar and spelling in his posts devotes so much time insulting other people's intellectual capacities.

The goal of every business is to maximize profits, whether the owner is operating a hot dog stand or a multi-national corporation. Companies who regularly and intentionally ignore laws and treat their employees poorly do not maximize profits. It costs money to attract, train, and retain good employees. Only when there is a high unemployment rate and there is no competition for employees can companies get away with mistreating their employees.

As for the "YES WE CAN" chant, I am beginning to think that I have been had. No intelligent person working in the eastern Kentucky coal industry could possible be that delusional after experiencing 18 months of Obama's failed policies.

I guess we could just use spell check like everyone else?

And the coal industries(Massey Included) have maximized there profits at the cost of doing stuff the cheap and unsafe way and risking mens lives all for some money. If your fine with that then keep supporting them.

[Hoot Gibson]

I guess we could just use spell check like everyone else?

And the coal industries(Massey Included) have maximized there profits at the cost of doing stuff the cheap and unsafe way and risking mens lives all for some money. If your fine with that then keep supporting them.

You really have no idea what you are talking about. Massey has always paid among the highest salaries and provided some of the best benefits in the industry. Consequently, their employees have been above average in every way, from their top management down to their general laborers and clerks.

(Spell checking does not help with grammar, sentence structure, or capitalization. Nor does it help with logic.)

[4_real]

"It is amazing that one who employs such atrocious grammar and spelling in his posts devotes so much time insulting other people's intellectual capacities."
my spelling and grammar may not be up to par but i have enough sense to know what the difference between fact and fiction is.unlike you who more than likely copies their information from don blankenships myspace and glenn beck dot com.

ps: u didnt seem to have any input on the more government part of my post. so what is it? more government or less government?

[Wildcatk23]

You really have no idea what you are talking about. Massey has always paid among the highest salaries and provided some of the best benefits in the industry. Consequently, their employees have been above average in every way, from their top management down to their general laborers and clerks.

(Spell checking does not help with grammar, sentence structure, or capitalization. Nor does it help with logic.)

Who said they didn't pay well? I am saying that they cut corners and take shortcuts to make a few bucks while endangering there workers.

Massey has frequently been cited for safety violations, including about 50 citations at the Upper Big Branch mine before the explosion in april. Many of those 50 citations were for poor ventilation of dust and methane, failure to maintain proper escape ways, and the accumulation of combustible materials.

This is just 1 example of massey not giving a rats *** about their employers.

[Hoot Gibson]

"It is amazing that one who employs such atrocious grammar and spelling in his posts devotes so much time insulting other people's intellectual capacities."
my spelling and grammar may not be up to par but i have enough sense to know what the difference between fact and fiction is.unlike you who more than likely copies their information from don blankenships myspace and glenn beck dot com.

ps: u didnt seem to have any input on the more government part of my post. so what is it? more government or less government?

As for government, I favor a much, much smaller government and I oppose all government bailouts. I also oppose having the federal government taking over American companies like GM and Chrysler. Big government is destroying our economy and sooner or later, it will become much smaller.

Big governments do not create real jobs and they do not create any wealth. They suck the oxygen out of the private economy and propose more government to fix the problems that they cause.

[4_real]

As for government, I favor a much, much smaller government and I oppose all government bailouts. I also oppose having the federal government taking over American companies like GM and Chrysler. Big government is destroying our economy and sooner or later, it will become much smaller.

Big governments do not create real jobs and they do not create any wealth. They suck the oxygen out of the private economy and propose more government to fix the problems that they cause.

then please sir realize its not barack obamas fault that little tony blair/lil george bush was trying to go about his buisness like the coal companies and just spend enough to get by. another example of greed. its all about who has more a1 sauce on their steak and has nothing to do with the working man. your insane if you think don blankenship cares an ounce about any1 who works for him. whys the rich man busy danceing while the poor man pays the band?

[Hoot Gibson]

then please sir realize its not barack obamas fault that little tony blair/lil george bush was trying to go about his buisness like the coal companies and just spend enough to get by. another example of greed. its all about who has more a1 sauce on their steak and has nothing to do with the working man. your insane if you think don blankenship cares an ounce about any1 who works for him. whys the rich man busy danceing while the poor man pays the band?

This is my last response to you tonight. You do not understand the coal business or economics in general to hold up your end of the debate. I do not know Don Blankenship but if he is rich, I am sure that he values every man and woman who helped him become wealthy. I believe that Blankenship began as an engineer with Massey and worked his way to the top. Your socialist song and dance explains your support of Obama. Blankenship has done far more to earn whatever money he has made than the Obamas ever will.

[Wildcatk23]

This is my last response to you tonight. You do not understand the coal business or economics in general to hold up your end of the debate. I do not know Don Blankenship but if he is rich, I am sure that he values every man and woman who helped him become wealthy. I believe that Blankenship began as an engineer with Massey and worked his way to the top. Your socialist song and dance explains your support of Obama. Blankenship has done far more to earn whatever money he has made than the Obamas ever will.

You claim to know so much of the coal industries in eastern ky but you dont know who don blankenship is?
Massey Energy CEO Don Blankenship is facing long-overdue scrutiny for his record of putting coal profits over fundamental safety and health concerns.

The same Don Blankenship who invented a scandal and funded it to the tune of $3 million to run one one state supreme court judge out of office for the crime of siding with workers. The same Blankenship who was photographed cavorting along the French Riveria with another justice while his company had a $77 million case before the court.


Don Blankenship "If any of you have been asked by your group presidents, your supervisors, engineers or anyone else to do anything other than run coal (i.e. build overcasts, do construction jobs, or whatever), you need to ignore them and run coal. This memo is necessary only because we seem not to understand that the coal pays the bills."

[BlackcatAlum]

You claim to know so much of the coal industries in eastern ky but you dont know who don blankenship is?
Massey Energy CEO Don Blankenship is facing long-overdue scrutiny for his record of putting coal profits over fundamental safety and health concerns.

The same Don Blankenship who invented a scandal and funded it to the tune of $3 million to run one one state supreme court judge out of office for the crime of siding with workers. The same Blankenship who was photographed cavorting along the French Riveria with another justice while his company had a $77 million case before the court.


Don Blankenship "If any of you have been asked by your group presidents, your supervisors, engineers or anyone else to do anything other than run coal (i.e. build overcasts, do construction jobs, or whatever), you need to ignore them and run coal. This memo is necessary only because we seem not to understand that the coal pays the bills."

I'm pretty sure HG means that he doesn't know him personally.

[Hoot Gibson]

I'm pretty sure HG means that he doesn't know him personally.

That is correct. I did briefly work with one of the two people (Dexter Short) who were copied on the ridiculous memo that Blankenship dictated when he was a young mine foreman working on Big Creek.

Blankenship claims that his memo was "poorly drafted," which is a huge understatement, and that he later sent out a revised memo. I believe him. I do not know the context in which the memo was sent but taken literally the marching orders that he gave were directing the superintendents to act contrary to the law.

If Massey and Blankenship were as crooked as the liberals here allege, the memo would not have been produced in response to a subpoena. Some managers fire off ill advised memos during an angry outburst that find their way into the company files. Massey's mines would have been shutdown in short order if Blankenship's superintendents had taken his memo literally.

I once worked for a company that lost a multi-million dollar civil suit because a manager wrote a memo while angry at a deadbeat customer. The strategy outlined in the memo to deal with said deadbeat was sound, but the wording of the memo left a bad impression on the jury that we could not overcome. The memo was circulated to only one person - me, and then it was filed. Our company produced the memo during discovery, which is what honest companies do, and shot itself in the foot as a result.

Blankenship and Massey did the same, which is why I do not place much stock in his memo. The tone of the memo suggests that Blankenship needs to spend some time with his own lawyers, listening more and talking less. Anybody in business should always write letters and memos under the assumption that someday they will be blown up to flip-chart size and read to a jury. It is bad business to write while you are angry, whether your anger is justified or not.

[Wildcatk23]

That is correct. I did briefly work with one of the two people (Dexter Short) who were copied on the ridiculous memo that Blankenship dictated when he was a young mine foreman working on Big Creek.

Blankenship claims that his memo was "poorly drafted," which is a huge understatement, and that he later sent out a revised memo. I believe him. I do not know the context in which the memo was sent but taken literally the marching orders that he gave were directing the superintendents to act contrary to the law.

If Massey and Blankenship were as crooked as the liberals here allege, the memo would not have been produced in response to a subpoena. Some managers fire off ill advised memos during an angry outburst that find their way into the company files. Massey's mines would have been shutdown in short order if Blankenship's superintendents had taken his memo literally.

I once worked for a company that lost a multi-million dollar civil suit because a manager wrote a memo while angry at a deadbeat customer. The strategy outlined in the memo to deal with said deadbeat was sound, but the wording of the memo left a bad impression on the jury that we could not overcome. The memo was circulated to only one person - me, and then it was filed. Our company produced the memo during discovery, which is what honest companies do, and shot itself in the foot as a result.

Blankenship and Massey did the same, which is why I do not place much stock in his memo. The tone of the memo suggests that Blankenship needs to spend some time with his own lawyers, listening more and talking less. Anybody in business should always write letters and memos under the assumption that someday they will be blown up to flip-chart size and read to a jury. It is bad business to write while you are angry, whether your anger is justified or not.

No matter in what way he wrote the memo, During The Bush Administration would massey have lost anything. Being a high class supporter of the republican party and being a financial Donor.

[Hoot Gibson]

No matter in what way he wrote the memo, During The Bush Administration would massey have lost anything. Being a high class supporter of the republican party and being a financial Donor.

What should have happened to Massey in your opinion? How many years of profits from the Martin County operation do you suspect might have been washed down the creek when the slurry spill occurred. Would you have been happier if the feds had fined Massey a couple hundred million, jailed Blankenship and seized control of the company and the clean-up effort? This is not Venezuela....at least not yet.

[Wildcatk23]

What should have happened to Massey in your opinion? How many years of profits from the Martin County operation do you suspect might have been washed down the creek when the slurry spill occurred. Would you have been happier if the feds had fined Massey a couple hundred million, jailed Blankenship and seized control of the company and the clean-up effort? This is not Venezuela....at least not yet.

Fined a couple hundred million sounds nice.

You do realize that a good portion of martin county citizens (folk) still farm there own crops for a living. When the water was ways contaminated so were there crops. There for leaving many citizens without food or water off the land. I wonder if they was repaid for the loss of their gardens?

[Hoot Gibson]

Fined a couple hundred million sounds nice.

You do realize that a good portion of martin county citizens (folk) still farm there own crops for a living. When the water was ways contaminated so were there crops. There for leaving many citizens without food or water off the land. I wonder if they was repaid for the loss of their gardens?

No a good portion of Martin County citizens do not make a living raising their own crops. Many people raise gardens and some supplement their incomes but there are few, if any, full time farmers in Martin County (excluding the marijuana operations, which were probably unaffected by the slurry spill). Link

[Old School]

Fined a couple hundred million sounds nice.

You do realize that a good portion of martin county citizens (folk) still farm there own crops for a living. When the water was ways contaminated so were there crops. There for leaving many citizens without food or water off the land. I wonder if they was repaid for the loss of their gardens?

Where are these farms?

The residents were reimbursed for any and all losses including crops and equipment.

[Wildcatk23]

Where are these farms?

The residents were reimbursed for any and all losses including crops and equipment.

Did i say full time farmers? Idk old school i may go out and take pictures for you tomorrow. I'm off work tomorrow. It isnt like i drive up every hollow in martin county to count them. But im sure there was plenty of people that use the streams to pump water to their crops when droughts happen.

You realize that though massey may have had a short term cleanup covering up the sludge and pupping it into other ponds. Its still here, affecting the people and wildlife of martin county citizens every day.

[Old School]

Did i say full time farmers? Idk old school i may go out and take pictures for you tomorrow. I'm off work tomorrow. It isnt like i drive up every hollow in martin county to count them. But im sure there was plenty of people that use the streams to pump water to their crops when droughts happen.

You realize that though massey may have had a short term cleanup covering up the sludge and pupping it into other ponds. Its still here, affecting the people and wildlife of martin county citizens every day.

Yes you did, ans I quote, You do realize that a good portion of martin county citizens (folk) still farm there own crops for a living. I'm not sure where your from, but here in Johnson County growing crops for a living means your a farmer.

[Wildcatk23]

Yes you did, ans I quote, You do realize that a good portion of martin county citizens (folk) still farm there own crops for a living. I'm not sure where your from, but here in Johnson County growing crops for a living means your a farmer.

Luckily Johnson county hasnt had 300 million gallons of sludge poured down there creeks. Not that im aware of. All im saying is that people do still farm, and the water affects there crops.

[Old School]

Luckily Johnson county hasnt had 300 million gallons of sludge poured down there creeks. Not that im aware of. All im saying is that people do still farm, and the water affects there crops.

Farming and gardening are two completely different animals. Many people still garden (to grow fresh vegetables for supper), however very few farm (to live off the land with no additional income) for a living, I remember going up in the 60's I knew of dozens of farmers, today I couldn't name two or three.

During and after the spill was cleaned up both water and soil samples were taken and both were in compliance.

[Wildcatk23]

Farming and gardening are two completely different animals. Many people still garden (to grow fresh vegetables for supper), however very few farm (to live off the land with no additional income) for a living, I remember going up in the 60's I knew of dozens of farmers, today I couldn't name two or three.

During and after the spill was cleaned up both water and soil samples were taken and both were in compliance.

By state and federal officials that don't have to drink this stuff.