[Bob Seger]

Given the entire context of the cultural moment, both former President Bush and President Obama were doing more than speaking to five grief-stricken families. Both men, it seems to me, were speaking to a nation. Slavery, Jim Crow...these are the past, yes, but they also form the mosaic, the context of our nation's racial history and present.

In certain neighborhoods in Chicago, access to a gun, even for a kid, may be more relevant to daily existence than access to a book. That is a reality.

And who's fault is that??? Perhaps if the police were allowed to do their jobs, it might not be the case....Maybe Chicago should model their police force after the Dallas Police Dept. (which Obama has praised)......Maybe morons like Rahm Emmanuel should step aside and let competent people start running the show.

[Bob Seger]

Robert Kennedy spoke in a black area of Indianapolis, the ghetto, and after he learned MLK, Jr. had died, and his speech is revered as one of the greatest in modern era. Agreed. I am a white man. I did not hear President Obama call me a racist. I did hear him reference slavery. I did hear him reference Jim Crow. I did hear him suggest racial justice and relations are leaps and bounds ahead of where they were in the past. I did hear him say that there is still work to do in racial equality and justice. I did hear him refer to himself, as a means of referencing the struggle on a personal note. You really sound like you consider President Obama an "uppity" black man. I am not saying that is your opinion or spirit, but I am saying that's how it comes across.

Since you want to bring up the subject, do you ever stop to wonder why blacks that bring up things that happened centuries ago always fail to add that it was their fellow black man in Africa who rounded up their own fellow black men and sell them all for the sake of filthy lucre? Why is the white man the only who they find at fault? Personally I am sick and tired of the whole subject...Never once has a black man ever thanked me for some of my ancestors that fought and died so that they could become free men..

Since when does a person that has a blood line that is 50/50 make him possess a race that has dominance over the other? Please explain that one.

[Bob Seger]

Since you want to bring up the subject, do you ever stop to wonder why blacks that bring up things that happened centuries ago always fail to add that it was their fellow black man in Africa who rounded up their own fellow black men and sell them all for the sake of filthy lucre? Why is the white man the only who they find at fault? Personally I am sick and tired of the whole subject...Never once has a black man ever thanked me for some of my ancestors that fought and died so that they could become free men..

Since when does a person that has a blood line that is 50/50 make him possess a race that has dominance over the other? Please explain that one.

* sold

[Granny Bear]

I wish David Brown would run for President.

[Bob Seger]

I wish David Brown would run for President.

He is a very impressive individual.

[The Urban Sombrero]

He is a very impressive individual.

I personally did not see that President Obama's speech did much more than mention slavery and Jim Crow as historical reference that is part of this nation's racial mosaic.

In the same way poachers in Africa kill and kill and kill until extinction draws nigh for great beasts of the wild ("It's all about the money, boys"), so were human beings bought and sold to support a way of life in both Africa and America. The capture and sale of human beings is despicable. The enslavement, forced labor, and view of human beings as chattel is despicable.

I have never been thanked for lives lost in the Civil War. This fact does not bother me, nor appear as remotely relevant.

[Granny Bear]

Obama's talk was made in a memorial service for 5 police officers that were cowardly ambushed. It was not appropriate to make that opportunity a platform for gun control or black lives matter, etc. David Brown spoke about a variety of issues too, but he obviously has a much better understanding of what is important and what is really happening both on the street and administrative level.

I'm not sure what the killing of animals in Africa has to do with anything, but for the record, I agree with you about sport killing and human trafficking.

[The Urban Sombrero]

Obama's talk was made in a memorial service for 5 police officers that were cowardly ambushed. It was not appropriate to make that opportunity a platform for gun control or black lives matter, etc. David Brown spoke about a variety of issues too, but he obviously has a much better understanding of what is important and what is really happening both on the street and administrative level.

I'm not sure what the killing of animals in Africa has to do with anything, but for the record, I agree with you about sport killing and human trafficking.

A previous poster mentioned that it was fellow Africans who would round up their kin and sell them to slave traders. Just as the almighty dollar dictates, where there is demand, brother will betray brother for cold, hard cash and provide supply, so for same cash will poachers hunt the great beasts of the wild to extinction. The most important color in the world is...green. "Oh that silver and gold would be so dear, and flesh and blood so cheap."

[The Urban Sombrero]

Obama's talk was made in a memorial service for 5 police officers that were cowardly ambushed. It was not appropriate to make that opportunity a platform for gun control or black lives matter, etc. David Brown spoke about a variety of issues too, but he obviously has a much better understanding of what is important and what is really happening both on the street and administrative level.

I'm not sure what the killing of animals in Africa has to do with anything, but for the record, I agree with you about sport killing and human trafficking.

David Brown is the police chief in Dallas. Barack Obama is the President of the United States. Their jobs are different. Their responsibilities are different. If the nation is at a moment of tension that goes beyond Dallas, but is powerfully manifested in Dallas, David Brown and Barack Obama are going to give different responses.

[Granny Bear]

David Brown is the police chief in Dallas. Barack Obama is the President of the United States. Their jobs are different. Their responsibilities are different. If the nation is at a moment of tension that goes beyond Dallas, but is powerfully manifested in Dallas, David Brown and Barack Obama are going to give different responses.

That statement is so convoluted, I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to say. No matter; however, the truth is the truth, right is right and wrong is wrong.

David Brown showed a tremendous understanding of the issues at hand while Obama did not. The citizens of Dallas appeared to be at the center of Brown's concern while Obama appeared to be the center of his concern.

[Bob Seger]

A previous poster mentioned that it was fellow Africans who would round up their kin and sell them to slave traders. Just as the almighty dollar dictates, where there is demand, brother will betray brother for cold, hard cash and provide supply, so for same cash will poachers hunt the great beasts of the wild to extinction. The most important color in the world is...green. "Oh that silver and gold would be so dear, and flesh and blood so cheap."

It doesn't take an Einstein to figure out what my point was, so way to go Loretta, on duckin, divin, twisting, spinnin, and saying nothin.


My point was that I am tired of a white man taking the blame on something that happened centuries ago on something that was aided and abetted by someone's own race....I am particularly sick of the First Lady making comments about having to live in the house that slaves built. Exactly what did something that happened centuries ago warrant even mentioning in what was supposed to be eulogizing 5 slain officers to begin with?

I can see right now that you are not going to directly respond to anything straight on....But then again, I guess you can't due to it conflicting with your narrative.

[Bob Seger]

That statement is so convoluted, I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to say. No matter; however, the truth is the truth, right is right and wrong is wrong.

David Brown showed a tremendous understanding of the issues at hand while Obama did not. The citizens of Dallas appeared to be at the center of Brown's concern while Obama appeared to be the center of his concern.

Ya see Granny, it is the utmost compliment when debating some of these liberal charators and see them have to resort to either not answering your questions or spin them around for 5 minutes not saying a single coherent thing...Well done!

[Bob Seger]

lol.....Considering you were doing your best Loretta Lynch duck and dive impressions, I found it to be pretty effective tactics to get some kind of response...You have to use whatever is effective depending on the level of the opponent you are debating. You can figure out from that why whatever it is that you deem sophomoric was required. Lets be honest, you were not going to address it.

He answers the bell before he ever has the first clue as to whatever has happened..Answer me this. In each case in that the proverbial ding a ling(rather symbolic, isn't it?) rings, in how many instances would have enhanced gun control measures over and above what already exists on the books have made a difference? Why is it never Islamic terrorism and referred to as some ridiculous jargon such as "workplace violence" ? Could it possibly be due to his family ties to Islam? Perhaps because his closest advisor, Valarie Jarret is a Muslim? Huh?.....Maybe it's because he came into this thing "damn the torpedos, full speed ahead" on his pre-election objective to end guns in this country...I would assume that it's got to be frustrating that a guy of self imagined rock star status cant get the thing done by conventional methods..He is a Nobel Peace Prize winner after all hahaha.....(yeah that's sophomoric, I know) ..Thankfully there are still enough people with a little more sense that can outweigh the idiot libs that don't know beans about which end of a gun that the bullet even comes out of to begin with.

I still anxiously await your "spun" response to his inability to get the mass killings under control down at the ranch in Chicago....More duckin and divin??
You would think those with superior intellects like Obama and Rahm Emmanuel would be able to "nip it n the bud"....What say you?

Lol....Ain't gonna answer any of the above , are you?

[The Urban Sombrero]

That statement is so convoluted, I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to say. No matter; however, the truth is the truth, right is right and wrong is wrong.

David Brown showed a tremendous understanding of the issues at hand while Obama did not. The citizens of Dallas appeared to be at the center of Brown's concern while Obama appeared to be the center of his concern.

David Brown is very impressive.

A team leader at the plant is different from the President of the company. They have different jobs. That's not convoluted.

[The Urban Sombrero]

Lol....Ain't gonna answer any of the above , are you?

If you can prove that Barack Obama wants to "end gun ownership" in America...eh, never mind, you can't.

If you can prove that jihadists represent the totality of a worldwide religion any more than Randall Terry, Terry Nichols and that ilk...eh, never mind, you can't.

Now, what was the rest of the tripe you were yammering about?

[Bob Seger]

:biggrin:

Thanks for proving my point, Loretta.

[The Urban Sombrero]

:biggrin:

Thanks for proving my point, Loretta.

Funny, I think you just proved mine. Let's get serious: are you suggesting that President Obama's agenda was to end gun ownership in America?

Are you suggesting that speaking in such a way as to not give ISIS any credit for representing Islam is wrong? I remind you that the KKK claims to be a Christian outfit, and cites Scripture to prove it.

I am not a big fan of President Obama. I just didn't see that his speech in Dallas was over the line, given the context of the moment.

[Bob Seger]

Sheesh, never mind Sombrero, I never imagined that this would be too complicated for anyone to understand...You're taking all the fun out of it......

Just carry on and forget I said anything....:HitWall:

Of course I guess it doesn't change anything. You won't respond to the questions anyway.

[TheRealThing]

If you can prove that Barack Obama wants to "end gun ownership" in America...eh, never mind, you can't.

If you can prove that jihadists represent the totality of a worldwide religion any more than Randall Terry, Terry Nichols and that ilk...eh, never mind, you can't.

Now, what was the rest of the tripe you were yammering about?

Prior to the time he actually did it, you, Seger, me, nobody could have proven the terrorist at the airport in Istanbul, really was about to pull the ripcord on that suicide vest he was wearing either. But put to the test, he did. What your asking by way of proof is absurd. Just as it is absurd to suggest Bill and Loretta spoke only of grandchildren and golf when the two were on board her private jet with federal agents providing a secure perimeter. No I can't prove it in the way you demand, but how big a moron do you really want to become in order to keep granting cover to those with goal posts on wheels?

[TheRealThing]

If you can prove that Barack Obama wants to "end gun ownership" in America...eh, never mind, you can't.

If you can prove that jihadists represent the totality of a worldwide religion any more than Randall Terry, Terry Nichols and that ilk...eh, never mind, you can't.

Now, what was the rest of the tripe you were yammering about?

It's not tripe to say we still had to go kick Germany's butt even though all Germans were not Nazi's either.

[Granny Bear]

David Brown is very impressive.

A team leader at the plant is different from the President of the company. They have different jobs. That's not convoluted.

We finally agree. David Brown is more genuine and has more integrity than I have seen Obama show in 8 years.

Just because someone has a higher position doesn't excuse them from being accountable for what they say.

[The Urban Sombrero]

We finally agree. David Brown is more genuine and has more integrity than I have seen Obama show in 8 years.

Just because someone has a higher position doesn't excuse them from being accountable for what they say.

I do not think President Obama was "out of the way" in his remarks, given the cultural moment. I realize you do not agree with his policies, or his views on race relations. Where I diagree with you is your belief that he was wrong to give a broader speech than simply a eulogy.

[Granny Bear]

I don't object to a "broader speech" but his choices in topics.

(see the news about the attack in Nice??)

[TheRealThing]

I do not think President Obama was "out of the way" in his remarks, given the cultural moment. I realize you do not agree with his policies, or his views on race relations. Where I diagree with you is your belief that he was wrong to give a broader speech than simply a eulogy.

That's fair. It is also fair to point out that Mr Obama's speech was even broader than you may recognize. He went farther than eulogy, farther than policy, by passing in fact the rightful purview of God, he went so far as to make himself discerner of the intent of each man's heart as well as his judge as far I could tell.

In times like these the President of the United States should focus our attention on the fact that we are one people and as such, we should all be protectors of the common good. Bobby Kennedy took that tack, one would think a President in his 8th year would have at least that much down pat. But no, we got reminded that BLM is a some sort of righteous manifestation of which "the people" are so richly deserving. His power is to be used as protector of our Constitution and to faithfully execute himself to that end. Not transform same.

[The Urban Sombrero]

I don't object to a "broader speech" but his choices in topics.

(see the news about the attack in Nice??)

I saw. Why do you ask?

[The Urban Sombrero]

It's not tripe to say we still had to go kick Germany's butt even though all Germans were not Nazi's either.

We'll try again: are you suggesting that the United States go to war with Islam? Because I think that is what the jihadis objectivize. That CNN show where the guy's son was murdered, so now he objectifies hunting bad guys? I suspect that is the appropriate strategy for battling ISIS.

[The Urban Sombrero]

That's fair. It is also fair to point out that Mr Obama's speech was even broader than you may recognize. He went farther than eulogy, farther than policy, by passing in fact the rightful purview of God, he went so far as to make himself discerner of the intent of each man's heart as well as his judge as far I could tell.

In times like these the President of the United States should focus our attention on the fact that we are one people and as such, we should all be protectors of the common good. Bobby Kennedy took that tack, one would think a President in his 8th year would have at least that much down pat. But no, we got reminded that BLM is a some sort of righteous manifestation of which "the people" are so richly deserving. His power is to be used as protector of our Constitution and to faithfully execute himself to that end. Not transform same.

"Establish justice" is in the pre-amble. It would seem to me that if a President sees injustice in American society that it is within his realm to point it out. Here's a not so well kept secret: animosity toward black people is present in a lot of police departments. This doesn't mean that black folks are free of animosity toward white people. It might be a good idea to appoint David Brown as some sort of Commissioner or Task Force Captain on community/police relations in high crime areas.

[TheRealThing]

If you can prove that Barack Obama wants to "end gun ownership" in America...eh, never mind, you can't.

If you can prove that jihadists represent the totality of a worldwide religion any more than Randall Terry, Terry Nichols and that ilk...eh, never mind, you can't.
Now, what was the rest of the tripe you were yammering about?

Prior to the time he actually did it, you, Seger, me, nobody could have proven the terrorist at the airport in Istanbul, really was about to pull the ripcord on that suicide vest he was wearing either. But put to the test, he did. What your asking by way of proof is absurd. Just as it is absurd to suggest Bill and Loretta spoke only of grandchildren and golf when the two were on board her private jet with federal agents providing a secure perimeter. No I can't prove it in the way you demand, but how big a moron do you really want to become in order to keep granting cover to those with goal posts on wheels?

It's not tripe to say we still had to go kick Germany's butt even though all Germans were not Nazi's either.

We'll try again: are you suggesting that the United States go to war with Islam? Because I think that is what the jihadis objectivize. That CNN show where the guy's son was murdered, so now he objectifies hunting bad guys? I suspect that is the appropriate strategy for battling ISIS.

You're a moving target and you'd have to know that. You started out saying we can't make any judgments about the likely success of tighter gun control laws by comparing the already much tighter restrictions in Chi-town to the rest of the country, any more you said, than we can say jihadis represent all of Islam. Now, I'm not saying I follow that comparison logic but that's what you said.

So, I said okay if we're going there you can't make the argument stand on it's own in historical terms, just look at pre WW2 Germany and the rise of the Nazi's. Then you ducked into even more cover by slurving what I said into something about ISIS, which is at least connected.

But back to tacks. All Obama wants to talk about with regard to our defense of terrorism is more gun control through tighter regulation, which regardless of what the apologists are saying, would include some form of confiscation for the suspected or suggested newly redefined as to whom the illegal gun possessors would be. How do we know this? Because as was pointed out, the record clearly demonstrates tighter laws don't do a thing to reduce gun violence. And then there is this, reasonable folks know a dude sporting an explosive vest ain't makin no fashion statement. And I know Obama and the Dems in Congress want to limit guns, and just as sure as that vest will blow up, gun control will include some sort of gun roundup.

[The Urban Sombrero]

You're a moving target and you'd have to know that. You started out saying we can't make any judgments about the likely success of tighter gun control laws by comparing the already much tighter restrictions in Chi-town to the rest of the country, any more you said, than we can say jihadis represent all of Islam. Now, I'm not saying I follow that comparison logic but that's what you said.

So, I said okay if we're going there you can't make the argument stand on it's own in historical terms, just look at pre WW2 Germany and the rise of the Nazi's. Then you ducked into even more cover by slurving what I said into something about ISIS, which is at least connected.

But back to tacks. All Obama wants to talk about with regard to our defense of terrorism is more gun control through tighter regulation, which regardless of what the apologists are saying, would include some form of confiscation for the suspected or suggested newly redefined as to whom the illegal gun possessors would be. How do we know this? Because as was pointed out, the record clearly demonstrates tighter laws don't do a thing to reduce gun violence. And then there is this, reasonable folks know a dude sporting an explosive vest ain't makin no fashion statement. And I know Obama and the Dems in Congress want to limit guns, and just as sure as that vest will blow up, gun control will include some sort of gun roundup.

Basically, I have said that I do not believe, historically or within the history of the SCOTUS itself, that the 2nd Amendment is an "any gun, any person, any time" interpretation. I do not believe that banning military style, mass kill weapons is a panacea in stopping terrorist attacks. The two don't have to belong together. Again, my relatives have all kinds of guns...none of which I believe "the Dems" want to confiscate, except perhaps a great uncle who could bust a spring at any minute, if it isn't already sprung. (That's a joke).

As far as Chicago, if I were Donald Trump, I would attempt to tax credit deal make a plan for bringing some major industry back to Chicago. 1,000 jobs in Chicago's toughest neighborhoods, Jack Kemp style, decent wage jobs, would be a good start. I believe reducing poverty is the single biggest key to reducing crime...and that requires good jobs with good wages.

[TheRealThing]

Basically, I have said that I do not believe, historically or within the history of the SCOTUS itself, that the 2nd Amendment is an "any gun, any person, any time" interpretation. I do not believe that banning military style, mass kill weapons is a panacea in stopping terrorist attacks. The two don't have to belong together. Again, my relatives have all kinds of guns...none of which I believe "the Dems" want to confiscate, except perhaps a great uncle who could bust a spring at any minute, if it isn't already sprung. (That's a joke).

As far as Chicago, if I were Donald Trump, I would attempt to tax credit deal make a plan for bringing some major industry back to Chicago. 1,000 jobs in Chicago's toughest neighborhoods, Jack Kemp style, decent wage jobs, would be a good start. I believe reducing poverty is the single biggest key to reducing crime...and that requires good jobs with good wages.

Did you play for the Dodgers? LOL. The mass kill stuff is a red herring. Every idiot knows the only time a gun becomes to mass kill weapon, is when it's in the hands of a murderer. Mass kill also applies to buses, trucks, vans, jets, and volks wagons for that matter. And please tell us how tighter gun ownership regs will get the illegal guns off the streets? You can't. The illegal guns will stay in the shadows with the criminals who have them. Now, the guy who works and pays his bills and raises his family, he's the one whose home the gun confiscators are going to come to seize guns. The idea of the 2nd Amendment is such that law abiding citizens do not become victimized by criminals with guns.

Did you know one of the first questions an injured person is asked at the ER is if he is a gun owner, or if anybody in their household is a gun owner? What would that have to do with medical records? The information framework is in place, all that is lacking is the legislation.