[pjdoug]

So we limit the classes and then further limit the amount of teams making the playoffs. So now just limiting the classes to 4 cuts out 64 teams from making the playoffs. Then you go from 4 teams per district to 2 making the playoffs. So, tats another 128 teams out of the playoffs. Now, that's supposed to make football here better? Brilliant!!! By having less teams get playoff experience and fewer games in general we will get better.

That s the equivalent of the politicians saying legalize all the illegal people in our country. That too makes sense. Allow them to start drawing food stamps, unemployment and social security. These two ideas are equally insane.

I don't get how having less kids and teams playing makes football either.sounds like a bunch of BS to me

[pjdoug]

I think we spend too much time each year with this discussion about where the big games are played. I'm so tired of hearing it that I wish we would do like Texas and the team with the higher seed picks where they want to play it. Then we wouldn't have all the games in one place and all this discussion year after year could just go away.

you don't want to hear it because you want everybody else to travel farther than you nicker:

[PHSForever]

Would someone please for the life of me explain how changing the location of a championship game or changing our class system helps to grow the game of football in our state? Beat the dead horse in another thread that's not what this thread is about. I believe the problem is 2 fold. On one hand the economy cannot be ignored for those who don't know I am from Belfry where when the coal business was good we annually dressed 75-80 kids during the 80's and 90's but those numbers have declined directly in conjunction with the decline in our economy in Pike Co. to where we now dress roughly 60 kids. Secondly it's generationally different now for kids those same numbers I previously mentioned may have dropped if kids had iPads and Facebook and every gadget underneath the sun. The mentality of some kids now may be "why go to football practice in 90 degree weather when I can stay home and play on the xbox or ps4 in air conditioning" for a kid in this area with not much of a social life to speak of around here your options were simply limited either go home and sit with your family all evening or play football with your friends, simply put it's just not that way anymore. Rant over lol

Irish, while I don't necessarily agree completely with the line of thought, I think their argument is that a greater exposure to a larger part of the population would generate more excitement overall, and therefore more support and incentive, which would theoretically lead to better play (due to focus). I think the easiest analogy is to equate it to college football here. When UK (for a few years there and hopefully more soon) and UL and EKU are all doing well, it seems to generate more excitement state wide. I'm not ignoring the other colleges, just using these as an example. Basically, "a rising tide lifts all boats" theory.

I've made no secret that I think the championships should be at EKU or Lexington due to the more centralized location (ergo, easier to reach a grater population for what I call "day trippers", those who will drive over just to watch certain teams even if they aren't really fans of those teams, like those who want to see Damien Harris or some other good player, etc). It is difficult for people to drive 5-6 hours depending on where they live, to watch a game sometimes. In Lexington or Richmond, you would generally be within 3 hours drive of probably 85% of the state population. That's a little more manageable and justifiable for a lot of people. More than that and you are likely looking at added expense such as overnight stay and so forth.

Anyway, I think that first paragraph of mine is the basic gist of why people think moving the championship game would make KY football better. While I'm not 100% sure that is THE answer, it should be considered.

[MountainSports]

to answer the OP, coaches that are worth a sh*t would change football dramatically in ky.

[I-RT-24 Iso]

The ability of both intelligent, informed individuals as well as narcissistic, over-opinionated persons to be able to gather and discuss anything football related in a quagmire of idealists versus realists, cloaked in a marginal veil of anonymity.

[killbilly usmc]

If we never have another ice storm on title weekend again.
If 64 didnt really have 64 teams.
If 55 didnt post every 2 minutes.
If 55 would destroy 64's u got served sign.
If granny bear cooked me supper.
If i had better grammer, and didnt post something this long.

[Objective]

I have watched Mountain Football decline since the early 90's for one reason ....when you do away with a tough hardworking Middle Class (Coal Mines in this area maybe manufacturing in others) you lose a group of young men that have both resources (money to train, camps etc.) and a rugged tough hard working farm strong bunch that make great football players.

[irishcard16]

Irish, while I don't necessarily agree completely with the line of thought, I think their argument is that a greater exposure to a larger part of the population would generate more excitement overall, and therefore more support and incentive, which would theoretically lead to better play (due to focus). I think the easiest analogy is to equate it to college football here. When UK (for a few years there and hopefully more soon) and UL and EKU are all doing well, it seems to generate more excitement state wide. I'm not ignoring the other colleges, just using these as an example. Basically, "a rising tide lifts all boats" theory.

I've made no secret that I think the championships should be at EKU or Lexington due to the more centralized location (ergo, easier to reach a grater population for what I call "day trippers", those who will drive over just to watch certain teams even if they aren't really fans of those teams, like those who want to see Damien Harris or some other good player, etc). It is difficult for people to drive 5-6 hours depending on where they live, to watch a game sometimes. In Lexington or Richmond, you would generally be within 3 hours drive of probably 85% of the state population. That's a little more manageable and justifiable for a lot of people. More than that and you are likely looking at added expense such as overnight stay and so forth.

Anyway, I think that first paragraph of mine is the basic gist of why people think moving the championship game would make KY football better. While I'm not 100% sure that is THE answer, it should be considered.

Well don't get me wrong I do believe they should be played at a centrally located place, it would make the experience better for everyone. But I respect your opinion just disagree that it in anyway would raise the talent level that you would see on the field.

[Iam4thecats]

If more refs applied and were hired so that some of the bad ones we have now could be fired KY football would be better. If qualified certified teacher/coaches were hired at every opportunity by schools KY football would be better.

[Pupaw]

I'm late getting into this discussion so I'm not sure if it's been said or not, but youth programs are the foundation of sports in each area. The goal obviously for athletic programs is getting the most out of what you have available, so to me better coaching in youth leagues and developing these feeder programs are a must. I understand that Dad's want to help out and coach their son's team, and in some instances these people know sports, but being able to teach it to an entire TEAM is the difficult part. I think the class structure is fine as it is, but the issue IMO is the lack of teaching and proper instruction through the ranks of youth sports all the way up to the high school ranks. If you want better talent, develop it better.

[mysonis55]

I don't see how Lexington centrally located. It is a 5 hour drive from here. Really Louisville was.

[mysonis55]

Killbilly, be careful. I may let everyone know just how much you are like 64. You know, adopted teams thing.

[killbilly usmc]

I only adopted 1 55, besides ill be changing residences soon when i get married to one of mayfields finest. Ill be living about 2 minutes from walmart, so ill be alot closer to the school than someone that can throw a rock, and it land in weakley county tn.

[BlueCrew34]

Too many HS teams in Kentucky are running "Spread" type systems! I know HSS has dominate running a "Spread" type of Offense but the kids at HHS were taught fundamental football first! It takes a good coach to teach the "Spread"! Back in the old days coaches ran the "wishbone" and "veer" and protected there team better from mistakes. How many games a week now do we see a bad shotgun snap?? It happens every weekend in the NFL now, heck it even happened in the Super Bowl!

How many teams in college still line up in wishbone and go three yards and a cloud of dust. part of being a successful football state is placing kids in college programs of all levels. putting a kid in a position to be seen playing a style of play that is translatable to college scheme i believe gives him the best chance at that type of success. granted many programs struggle to implement the systems but just as many struggle to run belly.

[E's Army]

Consolidation is clearly not the answer. Small independents play some of the better football in the state. Mayfield, Corbin, Hazard, Pikeville, Somerset, Danville, Beechwood, Williamsburg, Prestonsburg, Raceland and Middlesboro all play good football. Those communities are involved and supportive. Better coaching is the answer. To many hires are made for political reasons. Hire the kids coming out of the small colleges as assistants and groom them to be head coaches. You must pay these assistants enough to justify their time and effert. $500 does not get you much. That works out to about $2 an hour by the time they do spring practice, summer practice and the season. Many of the county schools have not bought in to making themselves competitive. They are just going through the motions. The Fayette County schools are one of the worst offenders. How many Fayette County teams have made the trip to Bowling Green the last 10 years.

[Jeepman]

I played football in California. I lived in Texas, Connecticut, Wisconsin, Ohio and several other states just to name a few. Residents in the state of Kentucky would rather sit at home and eat then go to a football game. It's just not a priority to most Kentucky people.

I lived in Poland, Ohio about 8 years ago. Poland is just outside of Youngstown, Ohio. The high school in Poland had approx. 650 students at the time. My wife and I love football and went to our first game in the state. Prior to the game the marching band marched onto the field. ALL 350 of them. YES 350 students in the band. Over half of the class involved in the football game. The stands were packed and the atmosphere was that of a college game. Football is not the same in Kentucky as it is in most other states. People get involved and want to be involved in other states.

We are right behind W.V. in obesity. We have one of the biggest drug problems of any state. It's no wonder football is not what it is in other states.

[AtlPirateFan]

Maybe I misunderstood this topic a bit. I assumed we were discussing how to increase the quality level of HS football in KY, by producing more college recruits and stronger teams that compete at a higher level not that we were trying to determine how to best increase attendance and money at the State Title games or how to get more individual "stars" on teams. More players starting on a Friday night does not mean a higher quality of football.

While I agree the economy is in the crapper (it's why I left Pike Co. almost 5 years ago), and that an improved economy would bring more families to Ky, thus increasing enrollment and roster sizes across the state it's not something that is going to realistically be fixed over night. The hit the coal industry has taken over the last few years is not going to get better, regardless of who is in office or who is in congress.

Coal is much like the Steelworkers of PA and the other manufacturing jobs that peaked through the middle of the 1900s only to dwindle near the end of the century. It may not ever be gone, but it will definitely never be what it was. Barring KY finding another way to draw employers to the state things won't improve on the front.

I do support consolidation for creating a better environment because it should achieve the same thing as an improved economy. That is putting more talent in schools and therefore more talent on a given team. Yes you will have some athletes choose other sports due to "congestion" or limited starting spots. However this should inherently create better teams all around. This only occurs with mass consolidation I think just a few here and there doesn't help at all because. If overall teams as a whole have more talent then it stands to reason that a better quality product on the field, elevating KY into that mythical top 15. Reducing the number of classes is a direct result of the reduced number of teams. Having a ton of teams does not increase the quality of the game on the field.

Now I will agree an open enrollment policy would also help some schools get better but at the same time I believe it opens up too many possibilities for schools to openly recruit and then it becomes all about money.

In closing I don't think the location matters, it won't create better football teams in the state.

[mysonis55]

I too spent a lot of time in Texas. You talk about football. Mayfield reminds me a lot of the place we lived there. It was a small 2a school, McGreggor. They were several time state champions. The stands at all of their games, home and away, were standing room only. All of us younger kids would be playing football near the stands and all.

[topnotch]

Better little coaches with pay, Get politics out, play often as possible, STOP HANDING OUT AL:L THOSE THROPHIES.. AWARD them but coaches put your big boy paints on and DO it right. don't find A reason to award every kid.

[pjdoug]

I don't see how Lexington centrally located. It is a 5 hour drive from here. Really Louisville was.

schools like Belfry are about 5 hours from Bowling Green.

[BlackcatAlum]

Most of the talent in this state for all sports are found in the same areas: Louisville, Lexington, NKY (Cincinnati), and Bowling Green. Those are your most populated areas in the state. Meaning they have most of the jobs and career opportunities.

Until the economy improves in this state, football talent won't be very much improved and will never be on the level of our bordering states.

[Fly Like a Duck]

All of these other things are nice, but it's demographics (socioeconomics in this) boys.

Population, economy and more of an African American population at that.

End of discussion.

The rest are just feel good answers (things that help no doubt, but those two things above are what matters before all).

[Fly Like a Duck]

Consolidation might be one of the things that has hurt KY football, especially in our rural areas.

Most places usually took the one football playing school in the county, and merged it with a few other smaller schools out in the far reaches of each county that didn't have football for a variety of reasons (mainly population, money and largely agricultural) and simply didn't care about football.

....turn the clock some 40-60 years later, and many of those same pockets within each county still couldn't give a rip about football.

I know for a fact that 3A and below, you have a lot of So and So High School (insert any town) Football @ So and So County High School.

3A schools, with 1A football programs in terms of where they actually draw their talent from (and/or overall participation in general).

Harsh reality, but fact.

[Spirit100]

A lot of good points have been made in this thread. Two that really stand out to me are better youth football programs and qualified teacher/coaches.

I see the benefit of both in NKY and will tell you first hand there is a huge advantage in hs football when a program has a well established youth program with buy in/consensus building on all levels.

Accompany this with teachers who coach as well with a daily school presence to better build rapport and assist their student/athletes. These factors are game changers.

I would add good alumni support, whether former players coming back to coach/mentor or donations to better fund equipment, 7-on-7 tournaments, address needs...

[pjdoug]

A lot of good points have been made in this thread. Two that really stand out to me are better youth football programs and qualified teacher/coaches.

I see the benefit of both in NKY and will tell you first hand there is a huge advantage in hs football when a program has a well established youth program with buy in/consensus building on all levels.

Accompany this with teachers who coach as well with a daily school presence to better build rapport and assist their student/athletes. These factors are game changers.

I would add good alumni support, whether former players coming back to coach/mentor or donations to better fund equipment, 7-on-7 tournaments, address needs...

if every school in the state used this common sense solution, imagine how fast Kentucky football would improve. teams like Highlands are always so good because they are well coached from a young age and fundamentally sound.not to mention the financial support.

[HAIL PIKEVILLE!]

I once asked a friend of mine who played in Ohio and then moved to Florida and started for 2 years on a state title team down there the same question. His answer made a ton of sense to me. In Kentucky when football season is over: all the football players go out for basketball. In Ohio all the football players wrestle and those that don't make the wrestling team play basketball. Wrestling teaches kids (especially lineman) about leverage and how to position your body in order to get it that transfers to the football field. Belfry wrestles and it shows in their line play. In Florida they have spring and fall Little League football. The High Schools are allowed to live scrimmage other teams during spring ball. So it's a safe bet that when a kid from Florida, Texas, Louisiana, ETC. reaches a Freshman in high school. They've had more reps, training, better understanding of the game and better quality coaching than most of our Seniors have had who've played since grade school. THAT is what's keeping us behind more than any other reason.

[mysonis55]

PJ, I never said BG was central. The statement was that Lexington or Richmond was. They are not. From Mayfield that is about a Five hour drive, add another half hour for Paducah ad 45 minutes for Ballard Co. Louisville, not Lexington, is central.

[mysonis55]

ll spors teah something that can be ued in football. Basketball is good for elevation, teaching posing up for receivers and such and endurance. Baseball teaches basically the same athletic stance for fielding that one uses to break down for a tackle. It also teaches the strategy and quick bursts of speed. Track has so many different uses that I can't list. I really don't think the year round approach is the way to go. It limits the other things kids go to school for. You must remember they are kids and they do not want their entire live to revolve around one sport, one subject in school, one boy or girl or one anything. Kids cannot grow without a variety of experiences and we should not expect them to sacrifice so we can feel better about setting on our couch and gloating.

[mysonis55]

Sorry my computer is giving me fits. The first line above is, All sports teach something that can be used in football.

[PHSForever]

PJ, I never said BG was central. The statement was that Lexington or Richmond was. They are not. From Mayfield that is about a Five hour drive, add another half hour for Paducah ad 45 minutes for Ballard Co. Louisville, not Lexington, is central.

I said central to about 85% of the state's population. Louisville is just 80 miles from Lexington, about the same from the Northern Kentucky area, and Pike County is 140 miles from Lexington, or about 2.5 hours. Bowling Green is about 2.5 hours or maybe a little more, from Lexington. So you've basically got the biggest population centers in KY (Louisville, NKY, and BG) all within 2.5-3 hours of Lexington. The way this state is laid out, almost no way to avoid a 5 hour drive for SOMEONE, I'm just saying the vast majority of the state is within a reasonable drive of the Lexington/Richmond area.