[Hoot Gibson]

don't like the truth just spin it :blabbermo

That is quite an admission. You don't like the truth and just spin it. You may enjoy spinning, but you are not very good at it.

[SKINNYPIG]

It's quite obvious that there is one thing we can prove...our President and his admin is grotesquely incompetent when it comes to leadership. At the same time this crew is just as grotesquely competent spinning/playing politics.

I MUST be right...we're discussing WMD's with their supporters. EVERY SINGLE TIME Barry gets in a bind we end up going to Bush or WMD's. I believe it to be a way some of you justify (in your minds) his lack of Presidential leadership.

[Hoot Gibson]

How did I lie? The buck stops with Bush. When you have proof about the WMD's that is concrete, I'll gladly admit I'm wrong. I've saw that convoy picture you speak of, and it is zero proof that those are wmd's going to syria.

You have no proof that Bush lied, all you have is an opinion. As far as you gladly admitting that you are wrong about anything...:biglmao:

[Hoot Gibson]

It's quite obvious that there is one thing we can prove...our President and his admin is grotesquely incompetent when it comes to leadership. At the same time this crew is just as grotesquely competent spinning/playing politics.

I MUST be right...we're discussing WMD's with their supporters. EVERY SINGLE TIME Barry gets in a bind we end up going to Bush or WMD's. I believe it to be a way some of you justify (in your minds) his lack of Presidential leadership.

You are absolutely right, Skinny. Bush is the liberals' answer for every one of Obama's failures. When the facts are against them, they repeat the same lies about Bush. You can't blame them, the only opinions that they have are the ones that Obama has planted in their heads. When he leaves office, I guess Hillary will have to fill that void.

[WideMiddle03]

You are absolutely right, Skinny. Bush is the liberals' answer for every one of Obama's failures. When the facts are against them, they repeat the same lies about Bush. You can't blame them, the only opinions that they have are the ones that Obama has planted in their heads. When he leaves office, I guess Hillary will have to fill that void.

[Image: http://images.sodahead.com/polls/0023570...large.jpeg]

[TheRealVille]

^ Quoted wrong post.

[TheRealVille]

You have no proof that Bush lied, all you have is an opinion. As far as you gladly admitting that you are wrong about anything...:biglmao:

Bush said there were wmd's, none were found once we got there. The buck stops with Bush. He should have made sure wmd's were there before he said they were. It's pretty simple.

[WideMiddle03]

^ Quoted wrong post.

[Image: http://rlv.zcache.com/annoy_a_liberal_us...vr_216.jpg]

[TheRealVille]

FTR, if it comes out that Obama knew about this as it was happening, I'll be the first to call for his impeachment. It gets no worse than using the IRS for political purposes, IMO.

[nky]

what about the lie bush told the American people about WMDS in Iraq ?

Democrats voted for the war as well:biglmao:

Who held Bush and Cheney accountable? I don't remember one single republican on this board that held them accountable fort the Iraq war. All I've ever heard from the people here is, "the democrats voted for it also".

Give what was know at the time it was the right thing to do -Hindsight is 20-20

[TheRealThing]

^The news just keeps getting more Orwellian. Though we're still in the early stages of the investigative process, we see that any groups who were opposed to this administration's policies were targeted. That would include folks who were associated with Z Street, and organizations that had any words in their name like constitution or patriot. In short, according to the Wall Street Journal this morning, anything remotely suggestive of conservative origins. "thanks to an ever-changing set of criteria by which it would vet "social welfare" organizations applying for 501©(4) tax-exempt status under the Supreme Court's Citizens United ruling. As those criteria evolved over two years, they at one point in June 2011 included groups focusing on certain issues, including "Government spending, Government debt, or taxes; Education of the public via advocacy/lobbying to 'make America a better place to live,' " Reuters reports.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/201...roups.html

[TheRealVille]

Democrats voted for the war as well:biglmao:


Give what was know at the time it was the right thing to do -Hindsight is 20-20

What does that have to do with anything? That is your guys standard response. Democrats and republicans voted to go to war because Bush lied about intelligence. Both parties in congress were mislead by that war criminal.

[TheRealThing]

Democrats voted for the war as well:biglmao:


Give what was know at the time it was the right thing to do -Hindsight is 20-20

Their dodging any responsibility for the War in Iraq has been one of absurdity since liberals first flip-flopped their position of support, to one of opposition in a move meant to gain them a political advantage.

I guess some people just can't remember back any further than the last set of talking points. nicker:

[TheRealThing]

No, I didn't say that. I said I've never heard the first one of you hold Bush and Cheney responsible for the Iraq war, and misleading the public. Bush absolutely did lie. There were 4488 killed in that lie. Until you have concrete proof there were WMD's in Iraq when we invaded, Bush lied, and 4488 died.

And what pray tell is your source to validate this dogmatic inflexible stand? You really think that when some uber left website spews their bias via the written word that makes it irrefutable?

If there were the first shred of evidence to support what you say it would have been plastered up everywhere man's eye might fall. The news, books, billboards, heck it would have been everywhere. It's just another baseless liberal allegation.

[TheRealVille]

Given the Republican obsession with Benghazi talking points, it’s time for a very specific flashback. In 2008, two non partisan groups released a study that determined that President Bush and his top aides made 935 false statements about the security risk posed by Iraq in the two years following September 11, 2001.

These statements were part of a deliberate campaign, according to the study conducted by the Center for Public Integrity and the Fund for Independence in Journalism. They concluded, “The false statements dramatically increased in August 2002, with congressional consideration of a war resolution, then escalated through the mid-term elections and spiked even higher from January 2003 to the eve of the invasion… In short, the Bush administration led the nation to war on the basis of erroneous information that it methodically propagated and that culminated in military action against Iraq on March 19, 2003.”



The study’s conclusions were further reinforced when former Bush White House press secretary Scott McClellan wrote, “top Bush aides had outlined a strategy for carefully orchestrating the coming campaign to aggressively sell the war… In the permanent campaign era, it was all about manipulating sources of public opinion to the president’s advantage.” (What Happened: Inside the Bush White House and Washington’s Culture of Deception)

According to the study, then President George W Bush made 232 false statements about Iraq and former leader Saddam Hussein’s possessing weapons of mass destruction, and 28 false statements about Iraq’s links to al Qaeda.

“President George W. Bush and seven of his administration’s top officials, including Vice President Dick Cheney, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, made at least 935 false statements in the two years following September 11, 2001, about the national security threat posed by Saddam Hussein’s Iraq…

On at least 532 separate occasions, Bush and these three key officials, along with Secretary of State Colin Powell, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, and White House press secretaries Ari Fleischer and Scott McClellan, stated unequivocally that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction (or was trying to produce or obtain them), links to Al Qaeda, or both.”

On July 2004, the Republican majority led Senate Select Committee released the Intelligence Senate Report on Iraqi WMD Intelligence, which identified numerous failures in intelligence gathering and “analysis” (i.e., interpretation). However, Republicans defended the Bush administration’s statements on Iraq.

An investigation into the administration’s use of the intelligence was delayed for three years due to Republicans claiming it wasn’t as important (Senator Roberts, R-KS) as other pending items. Phase two of the investigation was released in 2007, but not all of the report was released. It determined, “our Committee has concluded that the Administration made significant claims that were not supported by the intelligence.”

Read the examples of the egregious lies told in the lead up to the Iraq War.

Methodology: Over the past two and a half years, researchers at the Fund for Independence in Journalism have sought to document every public statement made by eight top Bush administration officials from September 11, 2001, to September 11, 2003, regarding (1) Iraq’s possession of weapons of mass destruction and (2) Iraq’s links to Al Qaeda. Although both had been frequently cited as rationales for the U.S. war in Iraq, by 2005 it was known that these assertions had not, in fact, been true.

http://www.politicususa.com/bush-aides-9...s-911.html

[TheRealVille]

And what pray tell is your source to validate this dogmatic inflexible stand? You really think that when some uber left website spews their bias via the written word that makes it irrefutable?

If there were the first shred of evidence to support what you say it would have been plastered up everywhere man's eye might fall. The news, books, billboards, heck it would have been everywhere. It's just another baseless liberal allegation.

^ Funny you should ask, just as I was posting. There just happened to be a report on that very thing.

[TheRealVille]

Press Release of Intelligence Committee
Senate Intelligence Committee Unveils Final Phase II Reports on Prewar Iraq Intelligence

-- Two Bipartisan Reports Detail Administration Misstatements on Prewar Iraq Intelligence, and Inappropriate Intelligence Activities by Pentagon Policy Office --

Contact: Wendy Morigi (202) 224-6101
Thursday, June 5, 2008

Washington, DC -- The Chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, John D. (Jay) Rockefeller IV, and a bipartisan majority of the Committee (10-5), today unveiled the final two sections of its Phase II report on prewar intelligence. The first report details Administration prewar statements that, on numerous occasions, misrepresented the intelligence and the threat from Iraq. The second report details inappropriate, sensitive intelligence activities conducted by the DoD’s Office of the Undersecretary of Defense for Policy, without the knowledge of the Intelligence Community or the State Department.

“Before taking the country to war, this Administration owed it to the American people to give them a 100 percent accurate picture of the threat we faced. Unfortunately, our Committee has concluded that the Administration made significant claims that were not supported by the intelligence,” Rockefeller said. “In making the case for war, the Administration repeatedly presented intelligence as fact when in reality it was unsubstantiated, contradicted, or even non-existent. As a result, the American people were led to believe that the threat from Iraq was much greater than actually existed.”

“It is my belief that the Bush Administration was fixated on Iraq, and used the 9/11 attacks by al Qa’ida as justification for overthrowing Saddam Hussein. To accomplish this, top Administration officials made repeated statements that falsely linked Iraq and al Qa’ida as a single threat and insinuated that Iraq played a role in 9/11. Sadly, the Bush Administration led the nation into war under false pretenses.

“There is no question we all relied on flawed intelligence. But, there is a fundamental difference between relying on incorrect intelligence and deliberately painting a picture to the American people that you know is not fully accurate.

“These reports represent the final chapter in our oversight of prewar intelligence. They complete the story of mistakes and failures – both by the Intelligence Community and the Administration – in the lead up to the war. Fundamentally, these reports are about transparency and holding our government accountable, and making sure these mistakes never happen again,” Rockefeller added.

The Committee’s report cites several conclusions in which the Administration’s public statements were NOT supported by the intelligence. They include:

Ø Statements and implications by the President and Secretary of State suggesting that Iraq and al-Qa’ida had a partnership, or that Iraq had provided al-Qa’ida with weapons training, were not substantiated by the intelligence.

Ø Statements by the President and the Vice President indicating that Saddam Hussein was prepared to give weapons of mass destruction to terrorist groups for attacks against the United States were contradicted by available intelligence information.

Ø Statements by President Bush and Vice President Cheney regarding the postwar situation in Iraq, in terms of the political, security, and economic, did not reflect the concerns and uncertainties expressed in the intelligence products.

Ø Statements by the President and Vice President prior to the October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate regarding Iraq’s chemical weapons production capability and activities did not reflect the intelligence community’s uncertainties as to whether such production was ongoing.

Ø The Secretary of Defense’s statement that the Iraqi government operated underground WMD facilities that were not vulnerable to conventional airstrikes because they were underground and deeply buried was not substantiated by available intelligence information.

Ø The Intelligence Community did not confirm that Muhammad Atta met an Iraqi intelligence officer in Prague in 2001 as the Vice President repeatedly claimed.


Additionally, the Committee issued a report on the Intelligence Activities Relating to Iraq conducted by the Policy Counterterrorism Evaluation Group and the Office of Special Plans within the Office of the Under Secretary of Defense for Policy. The report found that the clandestine meetings between Pentagon officials and Iranians in Rome and Paris were inappropriate and mishandled from beginning to end. Deputy National Security Advisor Steve Hadley and Deputy Secretary Paul Wolfowitz failed to keep the Intelligence Community and the State Department appropriately informed about the meetings. The involvement of Manucher Ghobanifer and Michael Ledeen in the meetings was inappropriate. Potentially important information collected during the meetings was withheld from intelligence agencies by Pentagon officials. Finally, senior Defense Department officials cut short internal investigations of the meetings and failed to implement the recommendations of their own counterintelligence experts.

Today’s reports are the culmination of efforts that began in March 2003, when, as Vice Chairman, Senator Rockefeller initially requested an investigation into the origin of the fraudulent Niger documents. In June 2003, he was joined by all Democrats on the Committee in pushing for a full investigation into prewar intelligence, which was eventually expanded by the Committee in February 2004 to include the five phase II tasks.

The Committee released its first report on July 9, 2004, which focused primarily on the Intelligence Community’s prewar assessments of Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction programs and links to terrorism. Those findings helped lay the foundation for some of the intelligence reforms enacted into law in late 2004.

In September 2006, the Committee completed and publicly released two sections of Phase II: The Use by the Intelligence Community of Information Provided by the Iraqi National Congress; and Postwar Findings About Iraq’s WMD Programs and Links to Terrorism and How They Compare with Prewar Assessments.

In May 2007, the Committee released the third section of Phase II: Prewar Intelligence Assessments About Postwar Iraq.

Separately, in early 2007, the Pentagon Inspector General released its own report on the intelligence activities conducted by the Office of the Undersecretary of Defense for Policy and also concluded that those activities were inappropriate.

http://www.intelligence.senate.gov/press...?id=298775

[nky]

What does that have to do with anything? That is your guys standard response. Democrats and republicans voted to go to war because Bush lied about intelligence. Both parties in congress were mislead by that war criminal.

both sides a culpable in the events of Iraq yet you only have blame for one side. Both sides of the isle saw the data, saw the intel, used the same UN sanctions.
Yet it's Bush's fault.

[TheRealThing]

Wendy Morigi is Obama's national security spokeswoman. I have a little trouble with believing much of what has been put out by these guys since the long and ever growing list of disgraced administration officials continues to pick up steam. From Eric Holder and Sec of State Clinton, to Susan Rice and Lisa Jackson, not to mention our own leader's propensity to embellish a story shall we say, as evidenced by his performance at the UN on Sept 25th.

They finally get a liberal pres in the White House and declare open season on conservatives. Give them 8 years to compile what were initially unsubstantiated assertions and falsely attribute them to the things that actually really did happen and release all that in a 'Press Release of intelligence committee' as if it bears the weight of a congressional finding or the like. Wendy works for Obama and they're out to destroy conservative credibility among the people. I see in your case at least, the tactic has proven infallible.

[TheRealVille]

both sides a culpable in the events of Iraq yet you only have blame for one side. Both sides of the isle saw the data, saw the intel, used the same UN sanctions.
Yet it's Bush's fault.

As you guys say, the "buck stopped" with Bush.

[TheRealVille]

Wendy Morigi is Obama's national security spokeswoman. I have a little trouble with believing much of what has been put out by these guys since the long and ever growing list of disgraced administration officials continues to pick up steam. From Eric Holder and Sec of State Clinton, to Susan Rice and Lisa Jackson, not to mention our own leader's propensity to embellish a story shall we say, as evidenced by his performance at the UN on Sept 25th.

They finally get a liberal pres in the White House and declare open season on conservatives. Give them 8 years to compile what were initially unsubstantiated assertions and falsely attribute them to the things that actually really did happen and release all that in a 'Press Release of intelligence committee' as if it bears the weight of a congressional finding or the like. Wendy works for Obama and they're out to destroy conservative credibility among the people. I see in your case at least, the tactic has proven infallible.

All the while you conveniently look over the report I posted from the Senate Intelligence Committee. The first report being in 2004, and the final one( that I posted), from 2007.

[nky]

As you guys say, the "buck stopped" with Bush.

yet it doesn't apply for President Obama?

[TheRealVille]

yet it doesn't apply for President Obama?

It's you that isn't playing fair. I never said Obama had no fault. I merely pointed out that when it comes to blaming Bush, you guys point to democrats, and not Bush, yet you are quick to blame Obama.

[nky]

Lwest we forget -It wasn't just President Bush Congress authorized the war in Iraq.

[TheRealVille]

Lwest we forget -It wasn't just President Bush Congress authorized the war in Iraq.

If you read the Senate report, you would know Congress acted on flawed intelligence, and based on false statements by Bush and Cheney.

[TheRealThing]

All the while you conveniently look over the report I posted from the Senate Intelligence Committee. The first report being in 2004, and the final one( that I posted), from 2007.

Actually I'm not looking over anything. Liberals had to come up with plausible deniability with regard to their very public flip flop. All these conclusions and surmises were 'cooked' and deliberated over for years. One minute liberals are asserting that Bush is a moron, the next they're saying he went before the congress and totally flim flammed them into believing a masterfully elaborate tale of intrigue, and subterfuge involving the military capability of Iraq. So, again I ask the question. If Saddam didn't have WMD's. How did he manage to kill so many thousands of Kurds with them?

If at any other time, democratic members of congress were to admit they are too stupid to interpret intel and world affairs of and on their own resource, that would be an admission of their own failings and ineptitudes. Now, because their initial very public support of the military action in Iraq, they are somewhat limited as to how they can dodge any responsibility for that war, so they are forced to admit they don't know how to effectively govern? LOL, I'll have to go along with them on that.

At any rate, it is yet again the same old smoke and mirror job. Divert attention away from their own responsibility in the matter by calling George W a liar. Thus we see the entire life cycle of something born on elementary school playgrounds at recess. That being the practice of character assassination to get the edge. Point, name call and laugh one's foe to scorn. Fine tune the act through high school and college making it an art form at the levels of state and federal government. This has become the new sad reality of what was once referred to as statesmanship.

I would readily admit it if George W had lied. The obvious fact that I believe you are conveniently looking over is that this was a congressional joint resolution. The matter was debated by the full House and Senate and spoken to publically by Pelosi, Kerry and Hillary Clinton among other notable democrats. Everybody thought they had a handle on things and frankly, I think they did. The facts suggest the WMD's were moved out to Syria. It's called politicizing and dems are notorious for it.

[TheRealVille]

Actually I'm not looking over anything. Liberals had to come up with plausible deniability with regard to their very public flip flop. All these conclusions and surmises were 'cooked' and deliberated over for years. One minute liberals are asserting that Bush is a moron, the next they're saying he went before the congress and totally flim flammed them into believing a masterfully elaborate tale of intrigue, and subterfuge involving the military capability of Iraq. So, again I ask the question. If Saddam didn't have WMD's. How did he manage to kill so many thousands of Kurds with them?

If at any other time, democratic members of congress were to admit they are too stupid to interpret intel and world affairs of and on their own resource, that would be an admission of their own failings and ineptitudes. Now, because their initial very public support of the military action in Iraq, they are somewhat limited as to how they can dodge any responsibility for that war, so they are forced to admit they don't know how to effectively govern? LOL, I'll have to go along with them on that.

At any rate, it is yet again the same old smoke and mirror job. Divert attention away from their own responsibility in the matter by calling George W a liar. Thus we see the entire life cycle of something born on elementary school playgrounds at recess. That being the practice of character assassination to get the edge. Point, name call and laugh one's foe to scorn. Fine tune the act through high school and college making it an art form at the levels of state and federal government. This has become the new sad reality of what was once referred to as statesmanship.

I would readily admit it if George W had lied. The obvious fact that I believe you are conveniently looking over is that this was a congressional joint resolution. The matter was debated by the full House and Senate and spoken to publically by Pelosi, Kerry and Hillary Clinton among other notable democrats. Everybody thought they had a handle on things and frankly, I think they did. The facts suggest the WMD's were moved out to Syria. It's called politicizing and dems are notorious for it.

The Intelligence Committee report says he did. Go for it.

[WideMiddle03]

[Image: http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/im...770514.jpg]

[Wildcatk23]

"If in fact IRS personnel engaged in the kind of practices that have been reported on and were intentionally targeting conservative groups, then that's outrageous. And there's no place for it," Obama told reporters.

"And they have to be held fully accountable. Because the IRS as an independent agency requires absolute integrity, and people have to have confidence that they're ... applying the laws in a nonpartisan way."

[TheRealVille]

only one problem these groups were denied approval during the election cycle in 2012 so unlike acorn and others who were allowed to work under 501C3 they were not.The Obama adminstration knew that they had to get past the election on every issue they could and they did everything they could to do (legal and otherwise)

Can I let you in on a little secret? The IRS is not part of any administration, it is a private entity.