[Old School]

Well im glad that your superior knowledge gives you pleasure when you debate with me.

I make a comment that in my opinion contour mines arent reclaimed, becuase simply putting back dirt and planting grass isnt reclamation, and you say that I dont know what contour mining is. To me thats making a stretch, I gave you an example of what a contour mine was, and how the method is used, so I think my understanding of it is complete. The point I was trying to make, and I failed to do so, is that in the 70's contour mining, and auger use was the typical surface mine, and the SMCRA wasnt signed until 1977, so thats why many highwalls are left and not filled in.

Again your taking my comments, and using your opinion on what I said as a basis for my knowledge and accuracy. The sewage problem still exist, but it's not as bad as it was in the past. Thats the only point I was trying to make.

You keep mentioning that good people work in the mines, which really has no meaning, I never said miners are bad people. So what if preachers work in the mining industry, that doesnt mean I have to agree with it, or that theyre right becuase they're "good people". Catholic preachers rape kids, does that make it right becuase they're preachers?

you keep mentioning that regulations are tight on slurry ponds. If that is so the cleanup of the spill in martin county should have been thorough, but instead most of the six toxic chemicals realeased in that spill remained. The Tug river still turned black when it rained, and sludge could still be seen on the banks. Many residents sued Massey energy for contaminating thier property, but it got nowhere. Most estimations say that they are over 500 "slurry ponds" are in appalachia, and some of those remain abandoned and unmonitored.

You also keep mentioning that coal mining does not affect water quality, whether it be well water, or run-off. The only info you provide for proof of this is first hand experience you have, and the few complaints your company recieves. Just becuase people dont complain doesnt mean there isnt a problem, and you cant speak for the industry as a whole based on only your experience.

here are a few stats, between 2000-2003 17,000 pollution violations in the kentucky river.

All kentucky waters have high levels of mercury, and women of childbearing age are warned not to eat fish, or drink from the water.

Silt or sediment from coal extraction accounts for 22% of impaired streams in Ky, and 34% in the cumberlands. I would call that damaging water quality.

Selinum levels exceed allowed amounts downstream in 13 of 15 mine sites studied by the EPA. Selenium is an essential element, and is healty in low amounts, but is toxic to wildlife and humans in large amounts exceeding 400 micrograms per day. So 13 of 15 sites studied have water issues, but you claim coal companies have a tight control over water quality. I just dont see how you get that.

I got these facts from http://windpub.com/kywatershed.htm check the bottom of that link to see thier refrences, they are all legit and trustworthy.

Coach, in all honesty, I do enjoy these discussions, but the main reason I respond to your comments is to try and correct as many misleading and false statements from you and the anti-coal groups as I can.

Let's start with your last post, now you've tried to use the "windpub" website several times and as I've mentioned they are anti-coal, and will only post infromation against coal. I did however find something interesting from your post and this site. You said and I quote "All Kentucky waters have high levels of mercury, and women of childbearing age are warned not to eat fish or drink from the water". which you took from the "windpub site or Kentucky River Watershed Site" which said and I quote "All Kentucky waters are under advisory for excessive quantities of mercury. Women of childbearing age and children 6 years of age and younger are warned not to eat more than one meal per week of freshwater fish." Remember these are Environmental sites that are against mining.

Below is the advisory information provided by the Kentucky Department of Water, and it said A statewide fish cosumption advisory was issued on April 11, 2000, because of low levels of Organic Mercury found in samples of fish from Kentucky waters. Women of childbearing age and childeren 6 years and younger are advised to eat no more than one meal per week of fresh fish from Kentucky Rivers, Streams, and Lakes because of the prersence of mercury.
http://www.water.ky.gov/sw/advisories/fish.htm
Coach, Did you notice any difference between the to two? Nowhere do you or "windpub" mention Organic Mercury. Exactly what is Organic Mercury....well Organic Mercury comes from Antiseptics, Bactericidals, Embalming Agents, The Farming Industry, Fungicides, Germicials Agents, Insecticidal Products, Laundry Products, Diaper Products, Paper Manifacturing, Pathology Products, Histology Products, Seed Preservation and Wood Preservatives. Sorry but coal or carbon is not found in Organic Mercury, Coal is however found in Inorganic Mercury which was not part of this advisory.
Mercury is a naturally occuring metal which has several forms, but manmade mercury emissions comes from Industral Boilers, Burning Hazardous Waste, and Chlorine Production and one-third comes from coal fired power plants, which is in the process of reducing those emissions. Were you aware that on March 15, 2005, the EPA issued the first-ever Federal Rule to permanently cap and reduce Mercury emissions from Coal Fired Power Plants by 70%.

You mentioned that 17,000 pollutions violations were issued, are you suggesting that these are all mining related? I checked out several sites and found information about violations, but none said what consitutes a violation? Were these violations made by industry, or were they made by private land owners or business?

I'm glad you brought up Selenium, Did you realize that Water Plants that supply drinking water are allowed to release 10 times the amount selenium into the drinking water (50ppb), than Mining Companies are allowed to discharge into the Streams (5ppb), now tell me, does that make sense.

I looked, but couldn't find where you found the information on the impaired streams, maybe you could give me the site, regardless Silt/Sediment which can come from stream bank collaspe and overland sediment loads that are usually associated with incompatible land use that remove riparian vegation for land development, logging, mining, farming, poor construction practices, stream dredging to name a few causes. One interesting fact is that Mining is the only one of the causes that uses any type of sediment contol, and this problem is not isolated to Appalachia it is also happening in non coal producing states.

Calling "Windpub and Kentucky watershed" and some of their refrences (such as water keepers which is opearted by Cindy Rank another coal critic who is also on many boards for anti-mining groups) a legit and trustworthy site...please the misleading and false information on the mercury alone is enough to discredit any information they give.