[TheRealThing]

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The error, of course, was on your part, as you vagabond through posts looking for the "gotcha." The clear reference of Bob's "game" was the turn the tables aspect.

William Penn, Quaker, set out to establish a state in accordance with Quaker values. Over and over again, I have stated our Founding Fathers were deeply influenced by Judaeo-Christian values, and that is clear in the Constitution. However, they were also influenced by Deism (which is a far cry from atheism) and the ideas of the Enlightenment. If Penn visualized his colony as a Quaker place, Jefferson did not envision America as a Christian state in like manner. This does not mean Jefferson thought it anything other than good that Judaeo-Christian values be embraced by the public.

Most of the time, TRT, I see where you are coming from and agree with you. I just feel in a few areas you inflate the tire beyond what it was meant to hold.

Well thank you for that kind concession, I appreciate it. The record stands, fairly a stone face of accurate facts carefully recorded by those who at one time risked their very lives in defiance against the leader of the world's mightiest empire, Mad King George. They had faced impossible odds and by the grace of God, come out on top. Owing to the miracle of our own heritage, there is no way anybody would be able to convince me that the clarity of said record should be mitigated by interlopers or compromised by scoffers.

Now, I do not accept the notion that deists had any meaningful impact on our founding. Three out of the 238 men who could reasonably be considered to have been a founder were deist. I named them for you. The most notable of the three was obviously Ben Franklin. And history proves that he recanted his youthful flirtation with deism and humbly returned to his Christian roots. By the time of the formation of our government, his call to unity through a moving prayer he offered on the floor of the convention, is said to have been the lone factor in breaking what had seemed to be an unbreachable impasse.

Freedom of conscience was a term relative to freedom of religion, which just meant government hands off the Church. And even the most casual perusal of Governor Penn's 'Act for Freedom of Conscience' removes all doubt as to Who these men attributed Godhood. The God of Israel. The contention has been made time and time again by the left, and the lie taught in our institutions of higher learning and now high schools, that God is whatever or whoever man might imagine. The founders were influenced by Christianity.

LOL, so you think I inflate my arguments huh? That is certainly up for you to decide, I must say. However, where you see me overinflating, I see you stretching that gnat's butt one boxcar too far. :biggrin: