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01-30-2016, 11:42 PM
TheRealThing Wrote:I might have to get on board with Twitter, though I generally resist anything that smacks of social media. And I just want to say that I would never intentionally offend you or your wife so, if Dr Piper is someone admired in your household, or if his faith is similar to your own, just know that my post is meant dispassionately.I do not know that much about Dr. Piper. However, I am almost certain that he occupies higher moral ground than Donald Trump. Unless he has recently disposed of some assets, Trump still derives an impressive income from strip clubs. He supports and has attempted to use eminent domain to acquire private property for private gain. There are many very successful businessmen, including the Koch brothers, who have never contributed money to Pelosi, Reid, the Clintons, Schumer, and other extreme left wing politicians. Those donations were not necessary to do business in New York City, but that is Trump's lie and he is sticking with it.
I read the article you cited. Dr. Piper had quite a long laundry list of grievances against Donald Trump. Now, on a side note, I am certain that should Trump not win the Presidency, neither will he be launching a series of evangelical crusades ala Billy Graham, LOL. But, you can take my word on this one thing. Any man of God worth his salt, is pretty cautious about character assassination especially when the particulars cited, which in this case were intended to validate Piper's scathing rebuke of Trump, are in dispute.
Many have stood up to defend Trump with regard to his supposedly having callously offended the handicapped NY Times reporter. Did he do it, or if so was it done knowingly? You couldn't prove it by me nor could you I suspect, by Mr Piper. Without belaboring this thing too much in taking his points or charges one by one, an awful lot of the items on the good doctor's list are demonstrably arguable. I have heard the following verse misinterpreted and misapplied many times in the past, I am happy therefore to use it in it's correct context and application in this case. Matthew 7:1 (KJV)
V1 "Judge not, that ye be not judged." According to this verse we are "not to judge the inward motives of others in the sense of condemning them" ---J Vernon McGee We don't know their motives or the intent of their heart. Nor do we know that God has given up on them or that they will not come to a saving knowledge of Him.
If Mr Trump has yet to find salvation, and I suspect that could be possible, the child of God is to pray for him, email him, write him letters, call him, or help him find his way to the Lord in any way he can imagine. But Mr Trump is not applying for a job as Rector-in-Chief, he's running for President. And if we're not going to get all up on our high horses and spew all manner of indignation over the activities a couple of the Presidents of recent times, why all of a sudden are we castigating Trump who at least has pledged his loyalty to Christian tenets? In any case, it is possible to be a conservative without being a Christian. Now, I'll grant you. In my view it is impossible for a Christian to vote for candidates who openly support gay rights and abortion on demand, and think he will not suffer loss for having done so. None the less, Dr. Piper more or less wrote off "the Donald" as having a reprobate mind and I refuse to believe that he doesn't know better.
So here's the way I see this thing. If I had to face my Lord for either asking Mr Trump to speak in my University Chapel, or if I wrote an article which virtually puts Mr Trump in the company of the eternally damned to answer for, I'd have him in my Chapel. And I just could not help but wonder, would Dr. Piper feel as strongly about all of this if he had entertained Mr Trump for lunch and a visit to his campus? That is one invitation that very likely did not go out.
The one line of Dr. Piper's tongue lashing that got my attention goes as follows: "I refuse to let my desire to win âtrumpâ my moral compass. I will not sell my soul or my universityâs to a political process that values victory more than virtue."
If one Mr Trump had not come along we'd still be up to our eyes in that sticky morass known as political correctness because no Church leaders I know have had the courage to confront it. He (Piper) and everybody else who stands the moral high ground, (or just think they do), owes the awakening completely to Trump. And since we live in the last days I thought just one more Scripture reference as it would apply to political correctness, which denies the sovereignty of God and elevates men, would be apt. Revelation 3:16 (KJV)
V16 "So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth." Fence straddling political speech, what are we to do with it, right? At any rate, murdering the messenger seems to be an ongoing fault of the Orthodoxy, does it not?
I could flood you with examples of immoral and inappropriate behavior by Donald Trump but the evidence from reliable sources is readily available to you if you care to look. It is appropriate to judge people on their past behavior when selecting a president. Otherwise, we would always elect a president for making the most impressive campaign promises.
Actions matter much more than promises to me and I just do not see how Trump's past behavior makes it likely that he will hold himself to many campaign promises that deviate from his past positions. If I am wrong about him, then so be it, but Trump has done nothing to earn my trust. In fact, his bullying and boasting diminishes my trust and respect for Trump on an almost daily basis.
At this time, I believe that there are two great men running for president, Ted Cruz and Dr. Ben Carson. I would probably support Santorum if he became the nominee but neither he nor Carson have much of a chance of beating Trump, Cruz, or Rubio.
Donald Trump has fallen from second to last on my list of potential GOP nominees. There is nothing that he can do to change my assessment, because whatever he says or does before the general election will be said or done in pursuit of an enormous amount of power. If Trump's presidential actions match his words of the next few months, then I will reconsider in the 2020 campaign. Until then, I consider Trump the most dangerous candidate in the race, excluding Hillary Clinton.
I would ask everybody to think about Trump's claim that because he is at least partially self financing his campaign, he does not owe "special interests" anything, unlike his GOP rivals. Consider how many $billion of loans that George Soros and the largest U.S. banks made to Trump's companies. Think about how much of an issue Trump has made over the loans that Cruz took out against his stock holdings to help finance his Senate campaign compared to the leverage that the big financial institutions hold over Trump.
Trump boasts of how his political donations bought favors from Pelosi, Reid, McConnell, Boehner, and a long list of other politicians. There is no reason to believe that President Trump would not continue to buy influence with taxpayer money. He is not a small government Republican and will use our money to make his deals. Trump supported TARP, the bailouts, and the Bush/Obama stimulus spending.
I don't trust Trump and I am surprised that any conservatives do. I would never have believed that any politician could be more divisive than the Clintons and Obama, but the number of conservatives who despise Trump is growing every day. He is going to have a very difficult time rebuilding all of the bridges that he has already burnt.
The overwhelming majority of religious leaders who have endorsed a candidate for president have selected Ted Cruz. In fact, Trump personally and dishonestly attacked Bob Vander Plaats, leader of The Family Leader, because he endorsed Cruz over Trump. As a presidential candidate, Trump is being judged on his record and an unusually large number of fiscal and social conservative Republicans say that they will never vote for Trump.
I think Trump can win without much conservative support because of the weak competition that he would face from Democrats but this election should have been an easy win for Republicans. Trump is making it more difficult than it should have been with his extremely divisive campaign tactics.
As far as offending my wife or me with your comments, I am more worried about offending you and my other friends on BGR. That is why I choose not to post more about Trump's disgusting past. Dr. Piper stands with the majority of religious leaders in this country in believing Trump is not fit for office. Hosting Trump in a college chapel to speak to his university students would be as inappropriate as hosting Obama in a chapel. There are more appropriate venues on campuses for controversial characters to address students.
Messages In This Thread
National Review Slams Trump - by TheRealThing - 01-22-2016, 04:27 PM
National Review Slams Trump - by RunItUpTheGut - 01-23-2016, 12:58 AM
National Review Slams Trump - by Hoot Gibson - 01-23-2016, 01:48 PM
National Review Slams Trump - by Demarcus ware - 01-23-2016, 04:39 PM
National Review Slams Trump - by Hoot Gibson - 01-23-2016, 05:33 PM
National Review Slams Trump - by Demarcus ware - 01-23-2016, 06:41 PM
National Review Slams Trump - by Hoot Gibson - 01-23-2016, 07:46 PM
National Review Slams Trump - by Demarcus ware - 01-23-2016, 08:12 PM
National Review Slams Trump - by RunItUpTheGut - 01-24-2016, 01:14 AM
National Review Slams Trump - by Hoot Gibson - 01-24-2016, 02:06 AM
National Review Slams Trump - by TheRealThing - 01-24-2016, 02:45 AM
National Review Slams Trump - by Hoot Gibson - 01-24-2016, 05:54 PM
National Review Slams Trump - by TheRealThing - 01-24-2016, 06:50 PM
National Review Slams Trump - by Hoot Gibson - 01-24-2016, 07:09 PM
National Review Slams Trump - by TheRealThing - 01-24-2016, 07:51 PM
National Review Slams Trump - by Hoot Gibson - 01-24-2016, 08:40 PM
National Review Slams Trump - by RunItUpTheGut - 01-25-2016, 01:28 AM
National Review Slams Trump - by LWC - 01-25-2016, 08:47 AM
National Review Slams Trump - by TheRealThing - 01-25-2016, 03:34 PM
National Review Slams Trump - by 64SUR - 01-25-2016, 10:52 PM
National Review Slams Trump - by Demarcus ware - 01-26-2016, 08:13 PM
National Review Slams Trump - by Hoot Gibson - 01-26-2016, 08:22 PM
National Review Slams Trump - by Demarcus ware - 01-26-2016, 08:36 PM
National Review Slams Trump - by Hoot Gibson - 01-26-2016, 08:48 PM
National Review Slams Trump - by Demarcus ware - 01-26-2016, 09:02 PM
National Review Slams Trump - by RunItUpTheGut - 01-27-2016, 01:40 AM
National Review Slams Trump - by TheRealThing - 01-27-2016, 04:02 AM
National Review Slams Trump - by Hoot Gibson - 01-27-2016, 04:25 AM
National Review Slams Trump - by TheRealThing - 01-27-2016, 04:35 AM
National Review Slams Trump - by Hoot Gibson - 01-27-2016, 05:03 AM
National Review Slams Trump - by RunItUpTheGut - 01-27-2016, 10:28 PM
National Review Slams Trump - by RunItUpTheGut - 01-27-2016, 10:30 PM
National Review Slams Trump - by Hoot Gibson - 01-28-2016, 01:33 AM
National Review Slams Trump - by Demarcus ware - 01-28-2016, 02:00 AM
National Review Slams Trump - by RunItUpTheGut - 01-28-2016, 03:13 AM
National Review Slams Trump - by TheRealThing - 01-28-2016, 03:32 AM
National Review Slams Trump - by Hoot Gibson - 01-28-2016, 12:37 PM
National Review Slams Trump - by TheRealThing - 01-28-2016, 05:22 PM
National Review Slams Trump - by Hoot Gibson - 01-29-2016, 01:27 AM
National Review Slams Trump - by TheRealThing - 01-29-2016, 06:51 AM
National Review Slams Trump - by TheRealThing - 01-30-2016, 12:18 AM
National Review Slams Trump - by TheRealThing - 01-30-2016, 07:21 AM
National Review Slams Trump - by Hoot Gibson - 01-30-2016, 11:42 PM
National Review Slams Trump - by TheRealThing - 01-31-2016, 04:38 AM
National Review Slams Trump - by Hoot Gibson - 01-31-2016, 06:38 PM
National Review Slams Trump - by TheRealThing - 01-31-2016, 09:17 PM
National Review Slams Trump - by Hoot Gibson - 01-31-2016, 10:42 PM
National Review Slams Trump - by TheRealThing - 02-01-2016, 02:36 AM
National Review Slams Trump - by Hoot Gibson - 02-01-2016, 04:38 AM
National Review Slams Trump - by TheRealThing - 02-01-2016, 04:13 PM
National Review Slams Trump - by Demarcus ware - 02-01-2016, 04:26 PM
National Review Slams Trump - by TheRealThing - 02-01-2016, 07:22 PM
National Review Slams Trump - by Demarcus ware - 02-01-2016, 08:28 PM
National Review Slams Trump - by TheRealThing - 02-01-2016, 09:59 PM
National Review Slams Trump - by RunItUpTheGut - 02-01-2016, 10:00 PM
National Review Slams Trump - by RunItUpTheGut - 02-01-2016, 10:02 PM
National Review Slams Trump - by Demarcus ware - 02-01-2016, 11:11 PM
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