[Hoot Gibson]

[quote=TheRealThing]Okay, let me try again. There was a time when the trades folks HAD to take tremendous risks to make what was at that time a very meager wage. Working hundreds of feet in the air on the side of some skyscraper for instance. No fall protection, no bathroom facility, no breaks, about a 15 min lunch etc. Also, if one wanted to keep the job he had he bowed his neck and worked like there was no tomorrow. If he didn't he ascended to the top of the lay off list as they say. Every worker routinely took life threatening risks to perform his daily grind. Mines with little or no thought to safety, working in dusts and chemicals that eventually killed them all. I can provide examples to substantiate the point Ad Nauseum if you like.

Men like these that I have mentioned, formed unions so that they could bargain as effectively as possible for wages and conditions. I mean they were on their own when they stood before the Man in those days. As a result, it was easy to be treated badly standing there on your own. The idea was a good one as it turns out, and decent folks got what is described by Union Men these days as a "FAIR DAYS' WORK FOR A FAIR DAYS' PAY"

Not to in anyway say that teachers, state highway workers, government clerks and secretaries, grounds keepers, janitors and on it could neccessrarily go, don't deserve to make it in this world too. But, if a state employee tried to get up and say he was being abused, my guess is that he'd be laughed to scorn. Union folks blazed the way for all Americans by their courage and insight.

Now to your point regarding why you can't have the same benefits.
1 Your work isn't dangeroius
2 Your work isn't long
3 Your work isn't hard
4 You're off more days than you work each year
5 You have tenure. After 10 years even the President himself can't touch you
6 You have a darn good retirement
7 You have darn good health insurance and life insurance
8 The harshest evironmental hazard you face is second hand smoke in the restroom
9 You get paid vacation and holidays, personal days, sick days
10 You get very good pay
You tell me did I miss anything?

The union folks I know get the following;
1 Health insurance that they pay a lot for
2 A check if they work, no check if they don't (good pay)
3 A pension that they pay an hourly $ amount for
4 A swift kick in the pants when they get too old to cut the mustard
5 Total paid days off each year, counting Christmas----ZERO

I suppose we are both confused at this point. Tell me again why you need to be a union member so you can get the benefits I get? Again I say a state job is to die for because in this country government backed jobs are the very best bar none.[/QUOTE]

Depends, I will get blamed for us not comparing with China from an educational standpoint by most in the US and certainly on some Fox Channel:biggrin: However, what most of the US and Fox either chooses to look the other way or they are simple ignorant is the fact, we educate every single person in the US. China does not. If I take our top ten percent and educate them, then as they say we compare apples to apples.

However, it will be spun to say teachers are the cause of this, it is their fault. They are over paid, they have so much time off, some of the points you made earlier, but now that you know the truth about them, I would bet you don't feel the same way, but then again maybe you do.

One of the main reasons I joined this site is so I could get a better understanding of the people in our region and open my eyes to what you see and hear. So, I thank you again for sharing them and I want you to know that I respect them.

This country is doing an extremely poor job of educating its population and the trend is not a good one. Increasingly, the high paying professions in this country are being filled by foreign nationals.

Almost half of the software developers with whom I work are from India. On my project team alone, there are two Indians, a South Korean, and two Americans. Considering that thousands of engineering, programming, and help desk jobs have already been outsourced to India and other countries around the globe, I think that this represents a great failure of our public education system in preparing Americans for the modern economy.

Too many Americans are operating under the misconception that these jobs are all being filled by less educated, less skilled foreigners who are willing to work for pennies a day. That is not the case. The skill of the Indian programmers with whom I am working is equal to any of the American developers with whom I have worked. In a few years, most of them will return to India and live like kings from their earnings here, performing jobs that Americans should be doing.

(Don't misinterpret my statements as being anti-Indian or anti-immigrant. If I was running a software business, I would hire my Indian friends without hesitation. However, there should be no shortage of Americans prepared to take these positions and perform at the same high level as people educated in Mumbai are performing.)

The abolition of the Department of Education is long overdue it has been nothing but a colossal waste of tax dollars. It is also time to throw out the current pay structure for teachers and allow districts to pay on the basis of merit and to follow the laws of supply and demand.

If competent math and science teachers are in short supply, offer good candidates for those positions more money. If there are gluts of PE and history teachers being produced by our universities, then drop the salaries of new hires in those fields. Finally, it is time for politicians to embrace vouchers and allow parents true choice in schools.

If these changes require outlawing the NEA in public schools, then so be it. Education is too important to be left in the hands of union bosses and the Democrats whom they have placed in their pockets.