[Aslan]

lol, tell him to argue the numbers :Thumbs: :biggrin:

Timmy does bore me to death, I have to admit.

You'll hear no argument from me.
I can't stand him but he is one of the most underrated players of all time. Maybe the greatest PF ever. Personally I hope the Spurs never win a game again though

But isn't that the whole problem here? We only appreciate guys if they won a title. John Elway was on his way to becoming the greatest disrespected player in the history of the NFL, until the very end of his career when he won 2 Super Bowls. Karl Malone, 2nd all-time NBA scorer in basketball, but people never respected him because he never won a title until it was sitting on the Lakers bench. We only associate success with titles, and that is completely unfair when judging how truly fantastic an athlete was. The only thing that detractors of Lebron can hang their argument on is he has not won a title. Does that not arguably not make him 1a or 1b in the argument of who is the best NBA player in the league? With title goes the respect. This thread is perfect for calling out the guys who deserve respect but never got it due to something like not winning a title. Scottie Pippin is considered one of the NBA's greatest 50 to ever play. C'mon, without Jordan and those 6 titles, Pippin would have been a nobody. People view Pippin as a greate NBA player than Drexler - only because Pippin got the rings!

The main goal in sports is to win. Would MJ be considered the greatest player of all time if he didn't win 6 championships and wasn't named MVP in all of them? I believe not.
Some say Bill Russel is the greatest center ever, would he be considered that without all of his rings? No.
Winning these past two championships has made Kobe the face of the league and he still has the #1 selling jersey worldwide.
For instance, in China Kobe is basically worshiped because in that country, for athletes, they hold winners in the highest regard. Can't find the article but I wouldn't lie to ya