[thecavemaster]

"To be strong and to perceive oneself as weak is an enormous temptation. We have dozens of atomic bombs, tanks, and planes. We confront people possessing none of these arms, and, yet, in our minds, we remain victims. This inability to perceive ourselves as we are in relation to others is our principal weakness." -David Grossman, Jewish writer, commentator

I can't help but think of our own struggle to paint Iraq as a dangerous threat to America, our continued efforts in Afghanistan. Sadly enough, what Grossman observes has been true of colonial powers throughout history.

[vundy33]

You're drunk.

Afghanistan is a just and necessary.

[NEXT]

You're drunk.

Afghanistan is a just and necessary.

:thatsfunn:lmao:

[vundy33]

War. I meant to say war at the end of that sentence...

We went to Afghanistan because of 9/11. How can anyone doubt that?

[Hoot Gibson]

Barack Obama is Israel's greatest weakness. He is a walking, talking foreign policy disaster. There are no enemies to whom he will not bow and no friend that he will not scold.

[Beetle01]

Why are we involved in Israeli politics again? Give me a good reason. They are our allies, I know we give them money. Okay that is fine, that is the stance of our government. However, we should not be trying to micromanage their politics. If they are our allies, that is fine, but let them do their thing. Keep our noses out of it.

[TheRealVille]

Why are we involved in Israeli politics again? Give me a good reason. They are our allies, I know we give them money. Okay that is fine, that is the stance of our government. However, we should not be trying to micromanage their politics. If they are our allies, that is fine, but let them do their thing. Keep our noses out of it.

Wow!!...,you and I agree on something. :rockon:

[Wildcatk23]

Why are we involved in Israeli politics again? Give me a good reason. They are our allies, I know we give them money. Okay that is fine, that is the stance of our government. However, we should not be trying to micromanage their politics. If they are our allies, that is fine, but let them do their thing. Keep our noses out of it.

:Thumbs:

[thecavemaster]

You're drunk.

Afghanistan is a just and necessary.

On September 12, 2001, I thought you were correct. However, it is now April, 2010, and we are still there. Furthermore, if a person has followed the construction of the "barrier" that has been in progress since 2000 or so, it's pretty clear that the Israelis used "security needs" as the reason for a huge land grab from the Palestinians. Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians have been cut off from their families, their land, their businesses... Apparently, repaying injustice with injustice is consistent with religious thought. True enough, an eye for an eye ends up leaving everyone blind. The pilfering of justice for safety (and a land grab to make a "Greater Jerusalem," ... in a manner that must shame "god" himself.

[thecavemaster]

Why are we involved in Israeli politics again? Give me a good reason. They are our allies, I know we give them money. Okay that is fine, that is the stance of our government. However, we should not be trying to micromanage their politics. If they are our allies, that is fine, but let them do their thing. Keep our noses out of it.

Why are we involved in Iraq? Afghanistan? Vital US interests in play, I would think would be the justification. The "great wall" of Israel, currently built, being built, and being further planned, pretty much, in my opinion, blasts any chance for a peace process for the next fifty years. The Palestinians who deire peace and reconciliation have little ground to get footing on as long as the injustices perpetrated by the building of this "sepatation barrier" are going on.

[thecavemaster]

Barack Obama is Israel's greatest weakness. He is a walking, talking foreign policy disaster. There are no enemies to whom he will not bow and no friend that he will not scold.

Ronald Reagan looked for a day when all nuclear weapons were dismantled. He was commended for this stance. Barack Obama just accomplished more in this line than the Presidents before him put together. You've never been more "Hack" Gibson in my book than in this post. What credibility in the region can we have when Israel gets a free pass no matter what they do? In the OT, "god" criticized Israel for its double dealings. I get it, according to the pro-Israel lobby, "Yahweh" is anti-semitic. How convenient.

[Matman]

Why are we involved in Iraq? Afghanistan? Vital US interests in play, I would think would be the justification. The "great wall" of Israel, currently built, being built, and being further planned, pretty much, in my opinion, blasts any chance for a peace process for the next fifty years. The Palestinians who deire peace and reconciliation have little ground to get footing on as long as the injustices perpetrated by the building of this "sepatation barrier" are going on.

We are in Iraq and Afghanistan at this moment because they do not have a stable government. Their government is unstable due to us. Whether you agree with the war or not we must help fix what we break.

[thecavemaster]

We are in Iraq and Afghanistan at this moment because they do not have a stable government. Their government is unstable due to us. Whether you agree with the war or not we must help fix what we break.

Afghanistan had stability when they had relgious tyranny. Iraq had stability when it had a dictator. The one was friendly to terrorists; the other was gaged a major danger in the region. Round and round she goes where it stops who knows....

[Hoot Gibson]

Ronald Reagan looked for a day when all nuclear weapons were dismantled. He was commended for this stance. Barack Obama just accomplished more in this line than the Presidents before him put together. You've never been more "Hack" Gibson in my book than in this post. What credibility in the region can we have when Israel gets a free pass no matter what they do? In the OT, "god" criticized Israel for its double dealings. I get it, according to the pro-Israel lobby, "Yahweh" is anti-semitic. How convenient.

Unilateral disarmament is not an accomplishment. Reagan was a tough negotiator who thoroughly understood the "peace through strength" concept. Reagan and the presidents that preceded him (Jimmy Carter being the one notable exception) pursued policies that won the Cold War and led to freedom for tens of millions of east Europeans.

Bowing to our enemies, dismantling our own weapons, and signing agreements that undermine our national security is not a foreign policy that any of Obama's predecessors, including Jimmy Carter chose to pursue. With friends like Obama, they need no enemies.

[Matman]

Afghanistan had stability when they had relgious tyranny. Iraq had stability when it had a dictator. The one was friendly to terrorists; the other was gaged a major danger in the region. Round and round she goes where it stops who knows....

I'm not debating whether stability is all they need but it is all we owe them. I don't know which one is better for them either, Philosopher Kings or majority rule. I do believe giving them a replacement occupation to take place of terroist and drug growers will help stablize their country. I think we should have invested in their country after the soviets lost hold.

[thecavemaster]

Unilateral disarmament is not an accomplishment. Reagan was a tough negotiator who thoroughly understood the "peace through strength" concept. Reagan and the presidents that preceded him (Jimmy Carter being the one notable exception) pursued policies that won the Cold War and led to freedom for tens of millions of east Europeans.

Bowing to our enemies, dismantling our own weapons, and signing agreements that undermine our national security is not a foreign policy that any of Obama's predecessors, including Jimmy Carter chose to pursue. With friends like Obama, they need no enemies.

How would President Reagan have achieved his goal (stated on several occasions as "no nuclear weapons") without dismantling our own weapons? Barack Obama has NOT undermined our national security, nor is he a socialist, nor is he the antichrist. How do you feel about the sons of Germany wanting a proclamation in VIrginia and Mississippi honoring the Nazi soldiers and way of life? They won't mention the Holocaust, of course.

[Hoot Gibson]

How would President Reagan have achieved his goal (stated on several occasions as "no nuclear weapons") without dismantling our own weapons? Barack Obama has NOT undermined our national security, nor is he a socialist, nor is he the antichrist. How do you feel about the sons of Germany wanting a proclamation in VIrginia and Mississippi honoring the Nazi soldiers and way of life? They won't mention the Holocaust, of course.

You are really showing a fundamental misunderstanding of Ronald Reagan. Obama is no Ronald Reagan. Obama is pursuing the policies of unilateral nuclear disarmament that left wingers like John Kerry advocated in the 1980s.

As for your Nazi reference, I have never heard of the "Sons of Germany," nor am I curious enough about the group to do any research into it.

[thecavemaster]

You are really showing a fundamental misunderstanding of Ronald Reagan. Obama is no Ronald Reagan. Obama is pursuing the policies of unilateral nuclear disarmament that left wingers like John Kerry advocated in the 1980s.

As for your Nazi reference, I have never heard of the "Sons of Germany," nor am I curious enough about the group to do any research into it.

Barack Obama lacks the ability, so far, to connect with the American public as did Ronald Reagan. I'll give you that. The "Sons of Germany" reference was meant as a jab at the Sons of Confederacy, the new Governor of Virginia, and the Governon of Mississippi. Did they not cover that on Fox News? SeanBeckBaugh?

[Beetle01]

Seriously mods, every topic gets off subject and turns into a ****in match between Cavemaster and Hoot. Will someone please buy these 2 guys a hotel room so they can get it over with already and we can get back to the normal discussion.

[Hoot Gibson]

Seriously mods, every topic gets off subject and turns into a ****in match between Cavemaster and Hoot. Will someone please buy these 2 guys a hotel room so they can get it over with already and we can get back to the normal discussion.

There is an "Ignore" feature, Beetle. If you read the threads closely, you might notice that my exchanges with CM are generally responsive rather than instigative. If you were his target, I doubt that you would settle for being a verbal punching bag either.

[thecavemaster]

Seriously mods, every topic gets off subject and turns into a ****in match between Cavemaster and Hoot. Will someone please buy these 2 guys a hotel room so they can get it over with already and we can get back to the normal discussion.

Come on, Beetle, What, are you all Rodney King now? "C'mon, everbody, let's just all get along?" Hoot and I are disagreeing about foreign policy matters, about Israel's role in escalating tensions via the land grab that is the "security fence" they are constructing. We may jibe each other a little, but so what? That's part of debate. It isn't like we wouldn't have a beer or soda together and throw some corn toss or something.

[Hoot Gibson]

Come on, Beetle, What, are you all Rodney King now? "C'mon, everbody, let's just all get along?" Hoot and I are disagreeing about foreign policy matters, about Israel's role in escalating tensions via the land grab that is the "security fence" they are constructing. We may jibe each other a little, but so what? That's part of debate. It isn't like we wouldn't have a beer or soda together and throw some corn toss or something.

:Thumbs: No darts, though. Beer, darts (especially the lawn variety), and politics can be a deadly combination.

[vundy33]

:Thumbs: No darts, though. Beer, darts (especially the lawn variety), and politics can be a deadly combination.

You mean the kind with the sharp as **** points?

I got one of them put in face once, went completely through my cheek bone :Thumbs: