[Former Cheerleader]

After attending several games this year and reading many posts, I wonder what people think of refereeing in the region. I opinion is that it has bad on both teams. I really think more training or recruitment of new staff. Any way who is good and who is bad? Any thoughts

[tommy2]

I agree

[Ring'Em Up]

Blah blah blah blah. Another one of these threads.

Maybe you should read the newspapers more or if you're so concerned about it, maybe check websites, other media outlets, etc., as there is constant "recruitment of new staff." It's just the fact that a very small percentage actually have the guts to do this job to help the kids, where most would rather sit in the stands and behind computers and talk dumb **** because their team lost a close one, or they are just "one of those" that ***** and gripe about anything and everything in life in general, yet lack the drive to actually do anything about it.

As far as the "good" and "bad" officials, the only people that have ANY right to judge an official, are their peers. And they respect each other enough to not do that to each other. It's a shame that the general public, other adults especially, don't have it in them to respect what each and every official does for his/her child on every given night.

And please, before some fool starts the "they get paid for it" deal, I challenge you to ask ANY official you may know, why they do it. Believe me, you will overwhelmingly be denounced as aforementioned "fool" for thinking it's for the money.

But since folks can so easily say how bad things are and never any good things, at least support your theories by giving some reasons for your opinion, instead of just "they were terrible" or "the officials sucked last night," or "they cheated."
Case point: So many people cried around on here over the traveling/non-foul call at the end of last week's Valley-Perry Central game. Where ANY unbiased person with even BASIC knowledge of the rules knows the contact was initiated by the offensive player, thus resulting in the correct call being made. It is good to see an official stick to his guns and make the correct call in a situation such as this, not letting the team name, the player involved, or the heat of the moment steer him into making a wrong call. Granted, it does happen where a rule may be mistakenly misinterpreted or applied in some rare situations, but 99% of the time, it's just that your judgement is different from the official's judgement. And his/hers are the only that matters, as they are the individuals with the stones to do the job.

Ok, gots to go. Gonna watch me a ballgame and root for my favorite team......the 3 players in stripes. Actually, the game I am preparing to watch is last night's SF-Prestonsburg game that so many described the officiating with words such as "horrible", "cheat", and "ashamed." Sounds like I have an entertaining couple of hours coming up.

Next time, I may give you my true feelings on the subject. :biggrin:

[PaintsvilleTigerfan]

Blah blah blah blah. Another one of these threads.

Maybe you should read the newspapers more or if you're so concerned about it, maybe check websites, other media outlets, etc., as there is constant "recruitment of new staff." It's just the fact that a very small percentage actually have the guts to do this job to help the kids, where most would rather sit in the stands and behind computers and talk dumb **** because their team lost a close one, or they are just "one of those" that ***** and gripe about anything and everything in life in general, yet lack the drive to actually do anything about it.

As far as the "good" and "bad" officials, the only people that have ANY right to judge an official, are their peers. And they respect each other enough to not do that to each other. It's a shame that the general public, other adults especially, don't have it in them to respect what each and every official does for his/her child on every given night.

And please, before some fool starts the "they get paid for it" deal, I challenge you to ask ANY official you may know, why they do it. Believe me, you will overwhelmingly be denounced as aforementioned "fool" for thinking it's for the money.

But since folks can so easily say how bad things are and never any good things, at least support your theories by giving some reasons for your opinion, instead of just "they were terrible" or "the officials sucked last night," or "they cheated."
Case point: So many people cried around on here over the traveling/non-foul call at the end of last week's Valley-Perry Central game. Where ANY unbiased person with even BASIC knowledge of the rules knows the contact was initiated by the offensive player, thus resulting in the correct call being made. It is good to see an official stick to his guns and make the correct call in a situation such as this, not letting the team name, the player involved, or the heat of the moment steer him into making a wrong call. Granted, it does happen where a rule may be mistakenly misinterpreted or applied in some rare situations, but 99% of the time, it's just that your judgement is different from the official's judgement. And his/hers are the only that matters, as they are the individuals with the stones to do the job.

Ok, gots to go. Gonna watch me a ballgame and root for my favorite team......the 3 players in stripes.

Next time, I may give you my true feelings on the subject. :biggrin:

Amen. Refs definately do not get the respect they deserve.

[JobForACowboy]

15th refs can't call there mom let alone a foul

[Aslan]

15th refs can't call there mom let alone a foul

Lol!!!

[Former Cheerleader]

Sounds like I may have touched a nerve. This is just a discussion. If you cannot handle the topic then do not read it.

[Ring'Em Up]

Lol, no nerve touched here. If you can't handle the topic or better yet, have no clue on the subject, don't start the thread. Or take your own advice and discuss it, instead of making one-sided opinions with no reasoning behind it.

[Former Cheerleader]

If you notice I was just wondering good or bad. Not allways bad. Just saying there are good and bad just this year in the 15th region seemed more bad than good. Just my observation and yes I do know what I am talking about. Watched several games in other regions and calls just seemed a little more fair. I know it is a hard job and I admire them all. I have been their position in other sports and yes it is not fun on the a t other side. Just a topic on who people think is good or bad. Not bashing. And by the way you could have fooled my. You would not have typed such a post if a nerve was not touched.

[Ring'Em Up]

You clearly state that your "opinion is that it has bad on both teams." Little late to try and say you didn't start the topic to bash officials. Then you go on to start to say something about training and recruitment, but then just stop mid sentence. I assume you were trying to get out that more of it was needed?

[Former Cheerleader]

it has been bad on both sides. But is that not what happens all the time. both teams end up with bad calls. Just wondering out there what refs people think are good or bad. that is all. and as far as training. you are never to old to learn. continueing ed is allways good. I have seen some one by bad calls and lost by bad calls. I do not know how many refs that the 15 region has just seemed like I always saw the same no matter where I went. From Pike to Lawerence co. Now again Just wondering who people is good or bad. No bashing as i have said I have been on the other side.

[phs1986]

Blah blah blah blah. Another one of these threads.

Maybe you should read the newspapers more or if you're so concerned about it, maybe check websites, other media outlets, etc., as there is constant "recruitment of new staff." It's just the fact that a very small percentage actually have the guts to do this job to help the kids, where most would rather sit in the stands and behind computers and talk dumb **** because their team lost a close one, or they are just "one of those" that ***** and gripe about anything and everything in life in general, yet lack the drive to actually do anything about it.

As far as the "good" and "bad" officials, the only people that have ANY right to judge an official, are their peers. And they respect each other enough to not do that to each other. It's a shame that the general public, other adults especially, don't have it in them to respect what each and every official does for his/her child on every given night.

And please, before some fool starts the "they get paid for it" deal, I challenge you to ask ANY official you may know, why they do it. Believe me, you will overwhelmingly be denounced as aforementioned "fool" for thinking it's for the money.

But since folks can so easily say how bad things are and never any good things, at least support your theories by giving some reasons for your opinion, instead of just "they were terrible" or "the officials sucked last night," or "they cheated."
Case point: So many people cried around on here over the traveling/non-foul call at the end of last week's Valley-Perry Central game. Where ANY unbiased person with even BASIC knowledge of the rules knows the contact was initiated by the offensive player, thus resulting in the correct call being made. It is good to see an official stick to his guns and make the correct call in a situation such as this, not letting the team name, the player involved, or the heat of the moment steer him into making a wrong call. Granted, it does happen where a rule may be mistakenly misinterpreted or applied in some rare situations, but 99% of the time, it's just that your judgement is different from the official's judgement. And his/hers are the only that matters, as they are the individuals with the stones to do the job.

Ok, gots to go. Gonna watch me a ballgame and root for my favorite team......the 3 players in stripes. Actually, the game I am preparing to watch is last night's SF-Prestonsburg game that so many described the officiating with words such as "horrible", "cheat", and "ashamed." Sounds like I have an entertaining couple of hours coming up.

Next time, I may give you my true feelings on the subject. :biggrin:

Now now sugar... your feathers are all up in a dander.... Notice the two highlighted parts of your post.... I will touch on those in a sec after I say this.... I DO think there are a "few" good ref's out there floatin around... (baseball, football, basketball) and (here is the part about the first highlighted section)... If all the ref's out there really and honestly cared about the kids, they would call the game as it should be called and want to show the kids (from pee wee to high school/college) what they are doing wrong... if it's a walk... call it! If it's a double dribble, call it..... If it's a foul (be it personal or whatever) call it on the right player and NOT who they think it's on.... Granted... not all the ref's pull this kind of stuff and are basically great people both on and off the court...... What I'm tryin to say is be fair to each and every child and do what is best for them and not yourself....

Second section I highlighted, maybe if each of the peers would critique each other a little and get opinions from each other and talk about calls and plays they have seen they could learn a lot. Helping each other and learning from "mistakes" that have been made is something that could be beneficial to the ref's in the region..... Mistakes ARE made as not one of us on this big ole' earth is perfect... we ALL make mistakes....

Yes, there are several out here (parents, adults, etc), that try to make it their life's job to harass the ref's.... It seems as if they come to ballgames for that one purpose..... BUT, it takes a set of kahauna's to get out there and call ballgames knowing what type of treatment your going to get.... Kudo's to many out there who do that.... I wish there was a quick fix for the situtation at hand.... I hope your not upset at me for sayin this stuff but I thought you might would need a "outside" view from an impartial person!!

[BlueChip1]

I know there are like 30 of them in the region, and i have not seen them all but i can say of the ones i have seen Webb, Trent, and Wendall are the three best,, Keith Halls boy is doing a good job for his years of experience. With that said, there are about 12 that need alot of training,, i have seen them that have no clue where they are supposed to be on the floor durring a three man game, some that call calls that are not theirs to make, and others that are afraid to make calls against teams that are supposed to win and let coaches interfere with their judgment. However, I have seen some really good middle school officials that should be calling the highschool games, and JV that should be calling varsity, Jessie Bowling and Tyler Johnson to name a few.

As to the case of peer critiques, every game ive watched all the goods ones officiate together and all the bad ones reff together so maybe the case should be that when the coaches rank the officials as they do every year, let the goodones reff with the bad ones durring the early season,, maybe that would be a good question to ask the signing secretary??

[alleycat53]

Best ref is an unnoticed one, A few try to be too much a part of the game with their antics and exaggerated motions. Looks silly.

[runninrebs21]

I agree, some refs get all into it and think they look cool I guess, even though they look like idiots. I think that refs should have to be able to get up and down the floor, which most around here can't. There are a few good refs around here, but most of them are TERRIBLE. The Hall brothers are 2 of the worst. I know that refereeing isn't easy, and questionable calls can go either way, and refs can't get every call right. BUT, a lot of refs around here have their favorites, and they don't make OBVIOUS calls.

[TRUBLX3]

The thing about calling games should be consistency. Everybody is going to miss a call or be out of position to make the right call. But, if they can show some sort of consistency throughout the game it makes it easier on fans and players. Examples would be, Team 1 plays pressure d and gets away with hand checks and slaps with their d, while team b is called for each bump down the floor. It's hard for kids to get into a groove if they know each play is over scrutinized, but don't get me wrong, I honestly believe that most officials come into the game with a mindset of what they expect to see and who they expect to win and don't want to disappoint those folks. As with all things in life, there are also quite a few of them that are just trash that get something out of having the power to screw up somebodys day.

[Cardinalfootballguy]

I think im going to take the test this summer

[runninrebs21]

TRUBLX, I agree completely.. It is okay if they aren't the greatest refs in the world, but at least call it the same both ways. Don't call touch fouls on one end and let them play on the other end. It makes players and coaches confused on how they can play.

[Scotty doesn't know]

Best ref is an unnoticed one, A few try to be too much a part of the game with their antics and exaggerated motions. Looks silly.

I agree!!! I think it is the funniest thing in the world to see them do that. They really just look silly and bring more attention to the call.

[mrsportsfan]

MrPaintsvilletigerfan- I find your post amusing about the call made on Elisha when he was drawing the contact(so you say) against PCC. You said if people could remain unbaised about it, they would see that Elisha drew the contact, thus drawing the walking call. My question to you, is being a Paintsville fan, and hating SV, how can you be unbiased. What makes you think we are going to take your word at it? Who do you think you are, Mike Pieriero, assistant vp to football officials who does the run down on the first of the week on the NFL network? Except on a basketball level? He always goes over the calls to see if the refs got it right? Unless you are some great trained person who was able to make this call, then you have nothing but an OPINION!!!!!!!!!!

[Former Cheerleader]

Thanks for all the great posts. This is what I was wondering about. Everybody opinion.

[Old_Mecroch]

If you don't like them fill out the appropriate forms, pay your fees and become an official. Otherwise accept defeat and quit blaming others for the outcome of the game. Whether you know it or not turnovers, missed freethows, dropped passes ---- (the list can go on and on) are what looses games not the officials, they are only there to administer the rules of the game.

[phs1986]

If you don't like them fill out the appropriate forms, pay your fees and become an official. Otherwise accept defeat and quit blaming others for the outcome of the game. Whether you know it or not turnovers, missed freethows, dropped passes ---- (the list can go on and on) are what looses games not the officials, they are only there to administer the rules of the game.

Ahhhhh, but some need to learn the rules before they try to enforce them... wouldn't ya say???? OR , make the rules up as they go along.... Just sayin...... :popcorn::Thumbs:

[hypersport]

I have coached and have seen games from Pikeville to Paducah. i also paid part of my way through school by officiating in western Ky. We have a great group of officials in our region from top to bottom. I have attended the state tournaments since 1971 and the 15th regional officials are among the best there.
I will grant that in all regions there are officials that need to improve, but couldn't we all at our jobs.
The best thing that we can do for officials is to make the position more attractive. If the officials were paid what it is actualy worth to do the games then more people would get involved. More training and better forms of evaluation could be enforced. Games could be assigned based on merit. Young officials could be paired with veterans to learn how to handle tough situations instead of being thrown to the lions. And if they don't make the grade then you can say thanks but no thanks. As it is we have problems because there is too much pressure on the inexperienced.
Another problem is that the schools admin. already choke for having paying 65 dollars a game for officials. Let's break that down. Leave for the game at 4:30. Travel 80 miles round trip, buy the shoes, shirts, pants, whistles, dress professionally just to walk in the gym. study for test, pay the KHSAA a fee, pay for the test, pay the assigning secretary a fee, be called nasty names, hear chants that you should be hung at the nearest tree, stop and eat on your way home, get home at 10:30, lay awake wondering if you were wrong, get up at 4:30 and head for the mines to work all day, grab your clothes and go do it all again.

[Ring'Em Up]

MrPaintsvilletigerfan- I find your post amusing about the call made on Elisha when he was drawing the contact(so you say) against PCC. You said if people could remain unbaised about it, they would see that Elisha drew the contact, thus drawing the walking call. My question to you, is being a Paintsville fan, and hating SV, how can you be unbiased. What makes you think we are going to take your word at it? Who do you think you are, Mike Pieriero, assistant vp to football officials who does the run down on the first of the week on the NFL network? Except on a basketball level? He always goes over the calls to see if the refs got it right? Unless you are some great trained person who was able to make this call, then you have nothing but an OPINION!!!!!!!!!!

LMAO, prime, and I mean prime, example of the ill-informed, biased, sour grapes, sore loser fan. Getting tore all to ****, and so focused on *****ing and griping, that they don't even take the time to see who they should be replying too. TigerFan didn't make any of the comments you are referring to. I will more than likely make the correct call, (like that analogy, don't ya?) and assume you meant to reply to me. I am not a Paintsville person. I believe anyone on here that knows me can tell you that. So have some sort of clue before you start running your mouth and accusing one of being biased toward your team, all because your team got beat and you are "one of those" I spoke of in my first post. What makes you think I gave a flying **** who won the Valley-PCC game?

And you are correct, about something, finally. It is my opinion, as it was the official who made the call, and the officials who make every call of every game. They see it one way, you, as a fan, parent, BLATANT SV biased person, see it different. Kinda ironic, huh, after the first 2 sentences of your post, that you would disagree with a call that went against your team. As I said before, your opinion has NO BEARING, anytime, anyplace, any game, because you only have the nerve to complain around about it on a computer, instead of getting out there and doing that job.
Regarding that call, I'm not asking you to take my word for it. The call was made last week, your player traveled, and PCC won the game.

By the way.....it's Pereira, he never was the assistant, and I am pretty sure he retired last year. :Thumbs:

[Ring'Em Up]

I have coached and have seen games from Pikeville to Paducah. i also paid part of my way through school by officiating in western Ky. We have a great group of officials in our region from top to bottom. I have attended the state tournaments since 1971 and the 15th regional officials are among the best there.
I will grant that in all regions there are officials that need to improve, but couldn't we all at our jobs.
The best thing that we can do for officials is to make the position more attractive. If the officials were paid what it is actualy worth to do the games then more people would get involved. More training and better forms of evaluation could be enforced. Games could be assigned based on merit. Young officials could be paired with veterans to learn how to handle tough situations instead of being thrown to the lions. And if they don't make the grade then you can say thanks but no thanks. As it is we have problems because there is too much pressure on the inexperienced.
Another problem is that the schools admin. already choke for having paying 65 dollars a game for officials. Let's break that down. Leave for the game at 4:30. Travel 80 miles round trip, buy the shoes, shirts, pants, whistles, dress professionally just to walk in the gym. study for test, pay the KHSAA a fee, pay for the test, pay the assigning secretary a fee, be called nasty names, hear chants that you should be hung at the nearest tree, stop and eat on your way home, get home at 10:30, lay awake wondering if you were wrong, get up at 4:30 and head for the mines to work all day, grab your clothes and go do it all again.

The paragraph about making the position more attractive, is dead on, and I think that is what the thread was probably actually started for, even tho the first post came across as more of saying "our officials suck."

With the current format and situation, the secretaries have to play the hand they are dealt, as far as numbers and the amount of clinics, ratings, etc. go. I do believe in general, they are trying improve it in most areas as a whole, in all sports. Advertising, word of mouth, recent pay raises, etc. One example, correct me if I am wrong some of you older guys. But hasn't it just started in recent years that secretaries are using summer camps and games to get more looks at each official? Or have they been utilizing that tool for alot longer than I am aware?

It is just so weird that some people would think an individual would go to call a game, with the mindset that they want to be bad and don't care if they are or not. I will be honest. I despise basketball. Watching. Playing. Officiating. Don't matter. I hate it. It is nothing more than a bridge to baseball season to me. But since I have started working games, I have made myself learn the rules better and the game as a whole, than when I was just a casual observer. I do push myself to study and ask others about certain situations that may arise. And I admit, it has sparked my interest in the game more than it was. Just knowing that to be any good at all, you have to enjoy doing it to some extent. No one wants to fail at anything they do, especially at a job where they voluntarily subject themselves to absolute and certain public scrutiny.

Nice post.

[Shady Grady]

Ahhhhh, but some need to learn the rules before they try to enforce them... wouldn't ya say???? OR , make the rules up as they go along.... Just sayin...... :popcorn::Thumbs:

The problem is, 99.9% of the fans don't know the rules!! They think they do, but how many fans have actually looked at the rule books? It takes a lot of time to understand everything in those books, and I know the average fan hasn't even seen one, much less read one.

[Shady Grady]

I have coached and have seen games from Pikeville to Paducah. i also paid part of my way through school by officiating in western Ky. We have a great group of officials in our region from top to bottom. I have attended the state tournaments since 1971 and the 15th regional officials are among the best there.
I will grant that in all regions there are officials that need to improve, but couldn't we all at our jobs.
The best thing that we can do for officials is to make the position more attractive. If the officials were paid what it is actualy worth to do the games then more people would get involved. More training and better forms of evaluation could be enforced. Games could be assigned based on merit. Young officials could be paired with veterans to learn how to handle tough situations instead of being thrown to the lions. And if they don't make the grade then you can say thanks but no thanks. As it is we have problems because there is too much pressure on the inexperienced.
Another problem is that the schools admin. already choke for having paying 65 dollars a game for officials. Let's break that down. Leave for the game at 4:30. Travel 80 miles round trip, buy the shoes, shirts, pants, whistles, dress professionally just to walk in the gym. study for test, pay the KHSAA a fee, pay for the test, pay the assigning secretary a fee, be called nasty names, hear chants that you should be hung at the nearest tree, stop and eat on your way home, get home at 10:30, lay awake wondering if you were wrong, get up at 4:30 and head for the mines to work all day, grab your clothes and go do it all again.

This is the most accurate and informative post on this thread. You, my friend, are dead on.

[phs1986]

The problem is, 99.9% of the fans don't know the rules!! They think they do, but how many fans have actually looked at the rule books? It takes a lot of time to understand everything in those books, and I know the average fan hasn't even seen one, much less read one.

Your 100% correct..... I for one HAVE read several different rule books from little league all the way to KHSAA rules.... To critique a ref... I don't feel I have the authority as a parent.... BUT, I would however file a complaint on behalf on my OWN child if need be. As in my earlier post (the first one in here) I do feel that some parents make it an obsession to bad mouth/scream/yell @ referees. NOT the way to handle a situtation... BUT, it happens everywhere ya go... AND in every sport I've been a spectator to...

[zaga_fan]

Reffing is kind of an artform, and not really an exact science.
Different refs call plays different ways and it's really hard to critique.
I do know that based on the way they grade refs, the 15th region is pretty much the bottom of the pile. I know a ref that was at the bottom of their region, switched to the 15th, and now is ranked high enough to ref regional tournaments. However, the grading system is flawed.