[thecavemaster]

That is exactly what he and I both are saying.


I think that T. Boone Pickens is a prime example of someone reinvesting previously gained capital.

What about outlandish pay packages for corporate executives? Nowhere else in the world are CEO salaries so out ofline with the rest of society's. Thirty years ago the ratio of a top executive's pay to the average worker's was fifty or sixty to one. Today we have executives who are making a thousand times what the typical worker makes. You don't think that the love of money makes for excesses which negatively impact the whole society? Is that right?

[Mr.Kimball]

What about outlandish pay packages for corporate executives? Nowhere else in the world are CEO salaries so out ofline with the rest of society's. Thirty years ago the ratio of a top executive's pay to the average worker's was fifty or sixty to one. Today we have executives who are making a thousand times what the typical worker makes. You don't think that the love of money makes for excesses which negatively impact the whole society? Is that right?

Then dont use those corporations services or buy their products if you feel that strongly. That has more impact than anything on sending a message to a business. Again, nobody holds a gun to anybody's head in this country to do business with anybody. No corporation can exist without a customer.

[thecavemaster]

Then dont use those corporations services or buy their products if you feel that strongly. That has more impact than anything on sending a message to a business. Again, nobody holds a gun to anybody's head in this country to do business with anybody. No corporation can exist without a customer.

Conservatives tout the free market as the backbone of our economic system but hide the fact that they're stacking the deck to serve their interests. The option of leaving the market alone doesn't exist. Show me someone who's made uber money, and I'll show you how we wrote the rules so that he or she made money. Bill Gates is a super, super rich man because the government granted him a monopoly on his Window's software programs. If I sell you Windows without Bill Gates's permission, he'll sue me. That's not the free market; that's the way we wrote the rules. The government doesn't HAVE to give Gates copyright protection for WIndows; there are other, better ways to finance software development. Ditto this line for prescription drugs.

[Hoot Gibson]

Conservatives tout the free market as the backbone of our economic system but hide the fact that they're stacking the deck to serve their interests. The option of leaving the market alone doesn't exist. Show me someone who's made uber money, and I'll show you how we wrote the rules so that he or she made money. Bill Gates is a super, super rich man because the government granted him a monopoly on his Window's software programs. If I sell you Windows without Bill Gates's permission, he'll sue me. That's not the free market; that's the way we wrote the rules. The government doesn't HAVE to give Gates copyright protection for WIndows; there are other, better ways to finance software development. Ditto this line for prescription drugs.

Apparently you have no clue about the value of patents and copyright laws in a free society. You seriously need to do some research into what has made America successful in the world.

So you are complaining about not being able to steal Bill Gates' product? Seriously? So, should I be able to walk into Wal-Mart, load up a cart with electronics, walk out without paying for them, and then sell them on eBay? There is no difference. Theft of intellectual property is theft. If you are using a copy of Windows that has been illegally copied, then you are a thief, the same as if you had shoplifted a boxed copy.

Intellectual property protection provides the incentive for investing in the development of new products. Without such protection, innovation would slow to a crawl and wealth would soon be concentrated in the hands of far fewer people than it is now.

BTW, there is plenty of competition to Windows. I use various versions of Linux, as do millions of other people, and Apple has its own very successful operating system.

[Mr.Kimball]

Apparently you have no clue about the value of patents and copyright laws in a free society. You seriously need to do some research into what has made America successful in the world.

So you are complaining about not being able to steal Bill Gates' product? Seriously? So, should I be able to walk into Wal-Mart, load up a cart with electronics, walk out without paying for them, and then sell them on eBay? There is no difference. Theft of intellectual property is theft. If you are using a copy of Windows that has been illegally copied, then you are a thief, the same as if you had shoplifted a boxed copy.

Intellectual property protection provides the incentive for investing in the development of new products. Without such protection, innovation would slow to a crawl and wealth would soon be concentrated in the hands of far fewer people than it is now.

BTW, there is plenty of competition to Windows. I use various versions of Linux, as do millions of other people, and Apple has its own very successful operating system.

Exactly. You beat me to it Hoot.

[Old School]

What about outlandish pay packages for corporate executives? Nowhere else in the world are CEO salaries so out ofline with the rest of society's. Thirty years ago the ratio of a top executive's pay to the average worker's was fifty or sixty to one. Today we have executives who are making a thousand times what the typical worker makes. You don't think that the love of money makes for excesses which negatively impact the whole society? Is that right?

What about the salaries of professional athletes? Do they also have a negative impact on society?

[thecavemaster]

What about the salaries of professional athletes? Do they also have a negative impact on society?

In professional sports, the "employees" make as much or more money than the CEO...at least the best employees. By the way, the money we pay to those who entertain us, the amount of money that is, and what it says about our society is a matter of spiritual reflection, isn't it?

[Aslan]

It is good to see some younger people checking out the politics forum. Do you have any political views? Check out the Declaration video and let us know what you think about it. What is your opinion about Ronald Reagan?

I'm more of reader than a poster in the political thread because IDK what you guys are talking about most of the time. Both my parents are republicans and I share a lot of there views. I know your not going to agree with a candidate on everything, but I'll never vote for anyone that strongly supports abortion. It should ONLY be done to save the life of the mother. It's murder, and why it's legal to the extent that it is, is rediculas. I don't support gay marriage. I don't agree with a persons choice to be gay or not but its there right to choose. The govenment should not give them the right to get married though. Strongly believe we need to sure up our borders and perserve jobs for American citizens. I read somewhere that we was taking it easy on terrorists or POW. We they do the same for us? Noway. We need to take care of our environment but I don't like the way there pushing to get rid of coal mining. With the economy in the shape that it is, America and espcially KY needs coal mining. Most of the founding fathers was God fearing men and I'm sure they wouldn't support how there trying to take God out of school, the national anthem, ect. I mean, to an extent, is that not what our country was founded on? I believe in God and believe that teachers should be able to pray in school, but I can see how that would violate the constitution. God fearing students should be able to pray and express there views of God if an atheist student is allowed to express theres. It's just fair. They should be more disipline is school. Students these days, have a lack of respect for authority. I was there just a few years ago, we didn't fear the teachers, and if we got in trouble, we didn't care because what they did, didn't really bother us. IDK what were doing in Iraq but I hope it's for the right reasons. IMO something needs to be done about Iran and there desire to get nuclear weapons and "wipe Isreal off the face of the Earth." Iranians chat death to America and Isreal, what every Friday? Those guys are our enemies and need to be stopped before its to late. IMO we need to back Isreal until the end...
I watched the video, he's a GREAT speaker. He makes ya proud to be an American.
I know this was long, but thats a few of my views. If I'm wrong about anything feel free to criticize or correct my mistakes bc like I've said before, I'm not 100% sure what I'm talking about. I'm young and new at this

[Mr.Kimball]

I'm more of reader than a poster in the political thread because IDK what you guys are talking about most of the time. Both my parents are republicans and I share a lot of there views. I know your not going to agree with a candidate on everything, but I'll never vote for anyone that strongly supports abortion. It should ONLY be done to save the life of the mother. It's murder, and why it's legal to the extent that it is, is rediculas. I don't support gay marriage. I don't agree with a persons choice to be gay or not but its there right to choose. The govenment should not give them the right to get married though. Strongly believe we need to sure up our borders and perserve jobs for American citizens. I read somewhere that we was taking it easy on terrorists or POW. We they do the same for us? Noway. We need to take care of our environment but I don't like the way there pushing to get rid of coal mining. With the economy in the shape that it is, America and espcially KY needs coal mining. Most of the founding fathers was God fearing men and I'm sure they wouldn't support how there trying to take God out of school, the national anthem, ect. I mean, to an extent, is that not what our country was founded on? I believe in God and believe that teachers should be able to pray in school, but I can see how that would violate the constitution. God fearing students should be able to pray and express there views of God if an atheist student is allowed to express theres. It's just fair. They should be more disipline is school. Students these days, have a lack of respect for authority. I was there just a few years ago, we didn't fear the teachers, and if we got in trouble, we didn't care because what they did, didn't really bother us. IDK what were doing in Iraq but I hope it's for the right reasons. IMO something needs to be done about Iran and there desire to get nuclear weapons and "wipe Isreal off the face of the Earth." Iranians chat death to America and Isreal, what every Friday? Those guys are our enemies and need to be stopped before its to late. IMO we need to back Isreal until the end...
I watched the video, he's a GREAT speaker. He makes ya proud to be an American.
I know this was long, but thats a few of my views. If I'm wrong about anything feel free to criticize or correct my mistakes bc like I've said before, I'm not 100% sure what I'm talking about. I'm young and new at this

Very good post Aslan. You gained a great deal of respect from me.

[thecavemaster]

I would say that, given the Nazarene's instruction, a teacher or student can pray any day, all day, any time, anywhere in any school. The "private closet not to be seen of men" thing being applied, that means: put head down on desk, go to restroom stall, put hands over face... or, simply, reflect and meditate in one's own head, with one's thoughts open to the heavens for give and take. I'm pretty sure the "still, small voice" won't disturb anyone else around you.

[Old School]

What about outlandish pay packages for corporate executives? Nowhere else in the world are CEO salaries so out ofline with the rest of society's. Thirty years ago the ratio of a top executive's pay to the average worker's was fifty or sixty to one. Today we have executives who are making a thousand times what the typical worker makes. You don't think that the love of money makes for excesses which negatively impact the whole society? Is that right?

In professional sports, the "employees" make as much or more money than the CEO...at least the best employees. By the way, the money we pay to those who entertain us, the amount of money that is, and what it says about our society is a matter of spiritual reflection, isn't it?

I'm sure one could find a larger discrepancy somewhere.

Let's see now, by your diffinition these unscrupulous CEO's who are responsible for managing huge corporations which employee hundreds or thousands of typical workers are not worth their salaries.

Most athletes also make a thousand times more than the average "Joe", these young men depend on the typical worker to pay their salary. Are not these salaries also out of line with the typical worker?

Do you not have a problem with a grown man chasing a ball and making a thousand times more than you do?

IMO neither are worth the millions they make, but if it came down to one or the other, I would rather see a CEO make more than a professional athlete.

[Hoot Gibson]

I'm sure one could find a larger discrepancy somewhere.

Let's see now, by your diffinition these unscrupulous CEO's who are responsible for managing huge corporations which employee hundreds or thousands of typical workers are not worth their salaries.

Most athletes also make a thousand times more than the average "Joe", these young men depend on the typical worker to pay their salary. Are not these salaries also out of line with the typical worker?

Do you not have a problem with a grown man chasing a ball and making a thousand times more than you do?

IMO neither are worth the millions they make, but if it came down to one or the other, I would rather see a CEO make more than a professional athlete.

Well said. I would also add that the organizations that employ professional athletes typically have hundreds or thousands of "average Joes" employed and it is not unusual for the athletes to make a 1,000 times more than the lowest paid Joe in those organizations.

I suspect the difference is that the socialists have not invested the time, money, and political capital demonizing professional athletes the way that they have CEOs.

[Mr.Kimball]

I would say that, given the Nazarene's instruction, a teacher or student can pray any day, all day, any time, anywhere in any school. The "private closet not to be seen of men" thing being applied, that means: put head down on desk, go to restroom stall, put hands over face... or, simply, reflect and meditate in one's own head, with one's thoughts open to the heavens for give and take. I'm pretty sure the "still, small voice" won't disturb anyone else around you.

There's no doubt that it's you that hears all those little voices in the night. What a moron!!!

[thecavemaster]

There's no doubt that it's you that hears all those little voices in the night. What a moron!!!

I was referencing Elijah in the "still, small voice" (singular); I guess you don't know the "holy" Bible all that well? Shame really... bet you're a church deacon with your picture on the wall or name on a pew.

[thecavemaster]

Well said. I would also add that the organizations that employ professional athletes typically have hundreds or thousands of "average Joes" employed and it is not unusual for the athletes to make a 1,000 times more than the lowest paid Joe in those organizations.

I suspect the difference is that the socialists have not invested the time, money, and political capital demonizing professional athletes the way that they have CEOs.

Anyone care to address the base concept that the CEO to employee salary ratio differential in the last thirty years suggests the larger prinicple that the system is structured to redistribute money upward?

[Mr.Kimball]

I was referencing Elijah in the "still, small voice" (singular); I guess you don't know the "holy" Bible all that well? Shame really... bet you're a church deacon with your picture on the wall or name on a pew.

Oh I knew full well what you were getting at. It didn't make the first bit of sense in the thread application, however.

What I was talking about was those tiny little voices that Looney Tune's might hear in the still of the night. Or in the case of some(????), even in a crowded room.

[Joe Friday]

I'm more of reader than a poster in the political thread because IDK what you guys are talking about most of the time. Both my parents are republicans and I share a lot of there views. I know your not going to agree with a candidate on everything, but I'll never vote for anyone that strongly supports abortion. It should ONLY be done to save the life of the mother. It's murder, and why it's legal to the extent that it is, is rediculas. I don't support gay marriage. I don't agree with a persons choice to be gay or not but its there right to choose. The govenment should not give them the right to get married though. Strongly believe we need to sure up our borders and perserve jobs for American citizens. I read somewhere that we was taking it easy on terrorists or POW. We they do the same for us? Noway. We need to take care of our environment but I don't like the way there pushing to get rid of coal mining. With the economy in the shape that it is, America and espcially KY needs coal mining. Most of the founding fathers was God fearing men and I'm sure they wouldn't support how there trying to take God out of school, the national anthem, ect. I mean, to an extent, is that not what our country was founded on? I believe in God and believe that teachers should be able to pray in school, but I can see how that would violate the constitution. God fearing students should be able to pray and express there views of God if an atheist student is allowed to express theres. It's just fair. They should be more disipline is school. Students these days, have a lack of respect for authority. I was there just a few years ago, we didn't fear the teachers, and if we got in trouble, we didn't care because what they did, didn't really bother us. IDK what were doing in Iraq but I hope it's for the right reasons. IMO something needs to be done about Iran and there desire to get nuclear weapons and "wipe Isreal off the face of the Earth." Iranians chat death to America and Isreal, what every Friday? Those guys are our enemies and need to be stopped before its to late. IMO we need to back Isreal until the end...
I watched the video, he's a GREAT speaker. He makes ya proud to be an American.
I know this was long, but thats a few of my views. If I'm wrong about anything feel free to criticize or correct my mistakes bc like I've said before, I'm not 100% sure what I'm talking about. I'm young and new at this

It sounds like you already have developed deep convictions. :Thumbs:
Having Republican parents is a great start. :biggrin:
Young people such as Wildcat 23 and yourself are the future of our country. I hope more of your generation takes an interest and gets involved in the politics of our country and the individuals that will represent us.
I share a lot of your beliefs and over the years I have, at times, changed my view point about various topics. It is always good to keep an open mind.
My approach to politics has generally been:

1) Arm yourself with the facts - be informed, not only on your position, but also check out the other side's news sources. :yikes: Before checking out sites such as Huffington Post, Daily Kos, Keith Olberman, etc., BE SURE TO REMOVE ALL HEAVY / BLUNT OBJECTS FROM THE IMMEDIATE AREA. There will be a strong urge to hurl said objects at the TV / Computer when visiting the liberal bastian. Don't be alarmed, this is normal. :ChairHit:
2) When the going gets tough, dig in and stand your ground. Sometimes it gets kind of rough when discussing politics...irateShoirateSho...or in the case of Mr. Kimball :flame: lol, but don't let them see you sweat.

I absolutely agree with you about Israel, thank goodness the Israeli people had the good sense to vote in Bibi Netanyahu - he is a strong leader and will do what is right for his country!

[Mr.Kimball]

[quote=Joe Friday]
or in the case of Mr. Kimball,:flame:


That seems to be the only language our resident crackpot lefty understands, Joe.:biggrin:

[Hoot Gibson]

Anyone care to address the base concept that the CEO to employee salary ratio differential in the last thirty years suggests the larger prinicple that the system is structured to redistribute money upward?

Let's just cut everybody's pay to minimum wage level so we can pay off the national debt. That would be fair, wouldn't it, CM?

If the owner(s) of a company wants to pay his CEO $1 billion a year but can still manage to pay me a competitive salary, then my only question is, "To whom should I send my resume?"

The class warfare of the socialists in this country turns my stomach. A healthy economy is not a zero-sum game. Obama can instruct his "pay czar" to cap CEOs' salaries in this country at 10 times the lowest paid employee's pay rate and nobody would be any better off as a result.

You could take all of the wealth in this country and distribute it among the poorest 50 percent of the population, and within a generation the wealth distribution would not be much different than it is today. Success is generally not a matter of luck.

I have read many tragic stories of lottery winners who squander their fortunes but I cannot recall a single story of a lottery winner joining the ranks of the "uber" rich. Easy come, easy go is the rule and not the exception among lottery winners.

[thecavemaster]

Let's just cut everybody's pay to minimum wage level so we can pay off the national debt. That would be fair, wouldn't it, CM?

If the owner(s) of a company wants to pay his CEO $1 billion a year but can still manage to pay me a competitive salary, then my only question is, "To whom should I send my resume?"

The class warfare of the socialists in this country turns my stomach. A healthy economy is not a zero-sum game. Obama can instruct his "pay czar" to cap CEOs' salaries in this country at 10 times the lowest paid employee's pay rate and nobody would be any better off as a result.

You could take all of the wealth in this country and distribute it among the poorest 50 percent of the population, and within a generation the wealth distribution would not be much different than it is today. Success is generally not a matter of luck.

I have read many tragic stories of lottery winners who squander their fortunes but I cannot recall a single story of a lottery winner joining the ranks of the "uber" rich. Easy come, easy go is the rule and not the exception among lottery winners.

oligarchy: government by the few Thus, from what you've said, yes... structure so that income flows upward... Now, wonder if the majority of Americans would actually favor your favoring of the uber rich? If the concept were put as plainly as you just put it?

[thecavemaster]

What kind of assurances do you mean? If you make operating a business in the US more attractive than operating elsewhere in the world, then there is no logical reason for businesses not to expand and new business ventures to be formed. Do you prefer having Exxon-Mobil expanding its operations in other countries, where it will employ fewer American workers?

To socialists, companies like Exxon-Mobil, whose profit margin is dwarfed by many companies in other industries, just represent a source of cash that rightfully belongs to "the people." They do not seem to grasp the notion of killing the goose that lays the golden eggs. The last time I checked, Exxon-Mobil pays about three times as much in various taxes in this country as it makes in profits.

Why should I care if those profits are more than the GDP of many small countries in this world? In fact, why should Americans not celebrate those profits? Profitable companies employ more people and afford employees better salaries and working conditions than less profitable companies. Of course, it is hard to top the working conditions and wages of the federal government, which pays employees with other people's money and never has to balance its books.

I'm using the "GDP" thing as a way of distinguishing what I'm talking about. I'm talking about huge, mulit-nationals, the uber rich. The goose that lays golden eggs also leaves a wake that is often destructive of the environment and human rights. You seem to think, Hoot, that if a man gives you a job, he has a right to rape your daughter, in a manner of speaking. That's foolishness. The clear cutting of rain forest land is not made more palatable because the clear cutter is generating income in the American economy. That's short sighted and, frankly, grossly immoral. Mr. Peadbody's coal train may create jobs, but cutting all the timber and raping the land? Tough tradeoff. (See history of resource use in eastern Kentucky).

[DevilsWin]

RR was an Effin Spokes Model and a B movie actor. Nothing more than a mouthpiece for giant corporations.

During his second term he was so out of his mind that Don Regan was running the country.

Don't believe the wing nuts when they try to portray him as some sort of cowboy savior of American Values.

[Mr.Kimball]

RR was an Effin Spokes Model and a B movie actor. Nothing more than a mouthpiece for giant corporations.

During his second term he was so out of his mind that Don Regan was running the country.

Don't believe the wing nuts when they try to portray him as some sort of cowboy savior of American Values.

LOL. Well, looky here.


:Hole::Hole::Hole:

[Mr.Kimball]

RR was an Effin Spokes Model and a B movie actor. Nothing more than a mouthpiece for giant corporations.

During his second term he was so out of his mind that Don Regan was running the country.

Don't believe the wing nuts when they try to portray him as some sort of cowboy savior of American Values.

He was also a former president of the Screen Actors Guild Union.

[Joe Friday]

RR was an Effin Spokes Model and a B movie actor. Nothing more than a mouthpiece for giant corporations.

During his second term he was so out of his mind that Don Regan was running the country.

Don't believe the wing nuts when they try to portray him as some sort of cowboy savior of American Values.

Them's fightin' words! :redboxer: I think I will let the Great Ronald Reagan speak for himself.

"Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn't so."

[DevilsWin]

He was also a former president of the Screen Actors Guild Union.

And was labeled a Communist by his opponents.

Hmmmmmm interesting.

[DevilsWin]

Them's fightin' words! :redboxer: I think I will let the Great Ronald Reagan speak for himself.

"Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn't so."

Not before Nancy reads his Horoscope and consults with her Fortune Teller. Then she, or Don Regan will tell him what to say.

[Hoot Gibson]

Them's fightin' words! :redboxer: I think I will let the Great Ronald Reagan speak for himself.

"Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn't so."

It's always been amazing to listen to liberals disparage the intelligence of the man most responsible for winning the Cold War. It is doubly amusing to hear supporters of our Clown-In-Chief to do so.

Reagan knew more about foreign affairs of economics than Barry Obama will ever know. He was also smart enough to know that he needed people in his cabinet who had business experience to help clean up the economic train wreck that Jimmy Carter created.

Another Reagan gem...

How do you tell a communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin.

[Mr.Kimball]

And was labeled a Communist by his opponents.

Hmmmmmm interesting.

Communist? Are we talking about the guy that ended the cold war, and basicly brought the communist Soviet Union to their political and economic knees? Boy, you're certainly a sharp one there, Rev. Jesse.:yawn:

Hey, the weather's gonna be breaking soon there Rev. Jesse. Crop plantin time is just around the corner, ya know. I know how ansy you must be getting. You're certainly no hypocrit though Rev. Jesse. That last statement just goes to show that your certainly one of those agricultural green freaks that prove they do indeed consume what they grow.:goofy:

[Hoot Gibson]

oligarchy: government by the few Thus, from what you've said, yes... structure so that income flows upward... Now, wonder if the majority of Americans would actually favor your favoring of the uber rich? If the concept were put as plainly as you just put it?

Either reading comprehension is a real area of weakness for you or you deliberately mischaracterize most of the posts on which you comment. Either way, it is really a sad thing to witness.