[BigChew]

I'll give you that one... but that's it... :biggrin:

Seems like you are coming around Creeker! :Thumbs:

[Creeker]

Seems like you are coming around Creeker! :Thumbs:

It seems the folks from your area have the same "blinders" on when it comes to the boys games too. :biggrin:

[Basketball Wizzard]

I'll tell you what, if you have hard evidence or fraud please call the KHSAA (number found at khsaa dot org) and talk to Asst Commisioner Tackett. Here, I'll address it this way:

1) Going out of region for the tournament is the best situation for officials and teams. It is done in almost every sport, with good cause. It has nothing to do with who thinks they have the best officials and is not decided by the officials. It is decided at the Regions' AD meeting (each region elects and send an AD, Holmes' Mr Madrick in the 9th). They also decide which region to switch with.

2) Short any proven fraud, officials may decide one or two games a year. Don't be mislead to think that one call changed the outcome of a game that saw 10 missed free throws and 4 missed lay ups.

3) Please read the KHSAA Officials' Guidebook, p6 for what constitutes conflict of interest. Many officials seem to know a lot of coaches. But don't be deceived, most officials don't know that coach at all once they get outside the lines of the court. :ChairHit::HitWall:

Something needs to be done....I think I will start filming some of these games and forward the film along with a written complaint to KHSAA. Maybe, they will do something to help the kids!

[Creeker]

As bad as the officials may be or seem to us fans, it is definitely not a job I'd ever want to do. I may scream and yell and say stupid stuff to them from time to time, but some folks just get out of hand with the things they say and do... including the coaches.

[baseline Jumper]

Amen....I have never seen a ref miss a free throw or commit a turnover or make a bad pass, or take a bad shot. I am amazed when I hear people say the refs were terrible and you look at the stats and see there team had 35 turn overs. Fans will say the refs were one sided when one team has 10 fouls and the other team has 2. They dont see that the team with 10 fouls is pressing full court and playing belly up man to man defense all over the floor while the team with 2 fouls is sitting back in a zone and being more passive. Refs will miss calls they are human but 99.9% of the time the players decide the outcome of the game. To any one who wants to critize the officials I would suggest picking up a whistle and joining the fray.

[GRIFFIN]

Amen....I have never seen a ref miss a free throw or commit a turnover or make a bad pass, or take a bad shot. I am amazed when I hear people say the refs were terrible and you look at the stats and see there team had 35 turn overs. Fans will say the refs were one sided when one team has 10 fouls and the other team has 2. They dont see that the team with 10 fouls is pressing full court and playing belly up man to man defense all over the floor while the team with 2 fouls is sitting back in a zone and being more passive. Refs will miss calls they are human but 99.9% of the time the players decide the outcome of the game. To any one who wants to critize the officials I would suggest picking up a whistle and joining the fray.

:Thumbs:

[fedscreekviking]

Most officials try their best to be honest and fair. one trouble is there is little way of training them. Mostly it is on the job training. And just like a player moving fron JV to varsity sometimes takes a little time to adjust to the speed of the game that is also true for officials. Some good JV players never make good varsity players; officials are in the same boat. But most after a couple years JV get assigned varsity games and really can't handle them. Also since officials are human if you think they are never swayed by friendship, desire to get to call the state, prefering the local team to win then you have never actually be around the game. It happens.

[Captain Backdoor]

Just so you guys that think the 12th region officials are so bad, we currently have 3 officials going to the All "A" Classic. Once again I think the 12th region has some of the best officials in the state.

[Joe Friday]

Just a couple of points - referees have to take tests and attend clinics and attend 8 meetings before the first game of the season. They have to take an exam to qualify to referee in the post season. They are evaluated at least two times during the season and rated by the coaches for post-season assignments. (By the way, coaches can scratch 15% of the total number of referees in the associations.) Also, referees have to renew their licenses annually, join their association, and pay yearly dues - then let's not forget uniforms. Also, let's not forget travel - in some regions, a referee may have to travel a minimum of 50 miles and up to 138 miles round trip - WITHOUT MILEAGE.

For what? To get yelled at by people who are clueless to the rules because the people have never read the Rule Books / Case Books / Referee Positioning Books nor do the people subscribe to Referee Magazine to better their craft. The 'fans' or coaches don't have to better their craft in order to yell 'WALK, 3 SECONDS, FOUL...etc.' Plus, most fans are fairly biased. You can also see a team's playing go south when coaches try to coach the referees instead of their teams.

Most referees really try to do their best, know and understand the rules, and hustle during the whole game. They are decent people who try to call it as they see it. They are not in it just for the money - they actually love the sport and are trying to do their part for high school athletics. People need to understand two things: 1) Games will not be played without referees and a lot are getting out of refereeing because they are tired of the abuse, the cost, and time away from families and 2) No one has ever missed a call from the bleachers. Until you are licensed and don a striped shirt and whistle, you are not qualified to referee the game.

[UKisN1]

Good post!

[Creeker]

Just a couple of points - referees have to take tests and attend clinics and attend 8 meetings before the first game of the season. They have to take an exam to qualify to referee in the post season. They are evaluated at least two times during the season and rated by the coaches for post-season assignments. (By the way, coaches can scratch 15% of the total number of referees in the associations.) Also, referees have to renew their licenses annually, join their association, and pay yearly dues - then let's not forget uniforms. Also, let's not forget travel - in some regions, a referee may have to travel a minimum of 50 miles and up to 138 miles round trip - WITHOUT MILEAGE.

For what? To get yelled at by people who are clueless to the rules because the people have never read the Rule Books / Case Books / Referee Positioning Books nor do the people subscribe to Referee Magazine to better their craft. The 'fans' or coaches don't have to better their craft in order to yell 'WALK, 3 SECONDS, FOUL...etc.' Plus, most fans are fairly biased. You can also see a team's playing go south when coaches try to coach the referees instead of their teams.

Most referees really try to do their best, know and understand the rules, and hustle during the whole game. They are decent people who try to call it as they see it. They are not in it just for the money - they actually love the sport and are trying to do their part for high school athletics. People need to understand two things: 1) Games will not be played without referees and a lot are getting out of refereeing because they are tired of the abuse, the cost, and time away from families and 2) No one has ever missed a call from the bleachers. Until you are licensed and don a striped shirt and whistle, you are not qualified to referee the game.

I like that... :wink:

[nature boy]

the 3 refs who called the Belfry and Pike Central girls game last night were horrible, i am just a basketball fan don't care who wins, i have watched bb all over the 15th region it is to the point whoever the refs want to win will.

[Joe Friday]

the 3 refs who called the Belfry and Pike Central girls game last night were horrible, i am just a basketball fan don't care who wins, i have watched bb all over the 15th region it is to the point whoever the refs want to win will.

So, let me get this straight, you don't care who wins but you are prepared to accuse every referee in the 15th Region of cheating. I am trying to understand your logic, are you saying that the referees conspire at the beginning of the season to determine who the district champions and the region champions will be? Are you saying these referees, most of whom have families, intentionally cheat kids? For what purpose, for what reason, and what evidence do you have?

[LWC]

So, let me get this straight, you don't care who wins but you are prepared to accuse every referee in the 15th Region of cheating. I am trying to understand your logic, are you saying that the referees conspire at the beginning of the season to determine who the district champions and the region champions will be? Are you saying these referees, most of whom have families, intentionally cheat kids? For what purpose, for what reason, and what evidence do you have?

Let me say this. I appreciate you taking up for the referees. Usually on forums like this, they have nobody on their side. There are MANY GREAT referees across the state. Certain regions are better than others.

With that said, it would be blindingly inaccurate to say that there are not referees out there that try to help Kentucky teams beat out of state teams.

I remember a Nationally ranked team a few years back came into an area VERY close to Somerset/Rockcastle/Laurel/Clay area, maybe even IN one of those areas, that caused this team from Florida (that lost less than 4 games TOTAL to NATIONALLY RANKED teams and their average margin of victory was over 30 points) to ALMOST lose to a team that WASN'T EVEN COMPETITIVE in the region. These officials called 3 walks in a row. Two of the walks they called were against players that DIDN'T HAVE THE BALL.

Also two personal fouls (NOT TECHNICALS) were called on players who were on the bench!

Eventually, this Florida team was losing by 3-4 points and their star player (I think he ended up going to Duke) shot two straight 3's from a step inside half court to win. (The previous 2-3 possessions were the times they called walks, so he had to shoot far away or they would have probably called a walk.)

It made me sick to watch it! I think a team that was NOT involved in the game but was taping it for scouting, turned it into the KHSAA and I have not seen two of the referees since. I don't think they were removed, but I have not seen them since.

That is a VERY rare case, but it was CERTAINLY an example of officials trying to help a KY team win this game and play a KY team for the championships of this tournament.

Let me wrap this up by saying, MOST officials are good and they DO care if they have done well or not. I know an official from the 13th region that watches his games on WAZOO sports and tries to find his mistakes. That is an honorable official.

Also, let me thank everyone for keeping this thread fairly respectable. I have seen threads like this on other forums CLOSED WAAAAAY before this. I believe this is a good thread and people are respecting each other AND officials. Just remember the referees are HUMANS, MOMS/DADS, HARD-WORKERS and LOVERS of the GAME. They would not go through the abuse if it was not for the love of the game.

[hoopfan1]

I agree the referees missed a few calls, but there was no cheating. The Belfry Lady Pirates determined who was going to win this game.

[Joe Friday]

Let me say this. I appreciate you taking up for the referees. Usually on forums like this, they have nobody on their side. There are MANY GREAT referees across the state. Certain regions are better than others.

With that said, it would be blindingly inaccurate to say that there are not referees out there that try to help Kentucky teams beat out of state teams.

I remember a Nationally ranked team a few years back came into an area VERY close to Somerset/Rockcastle/Laurel/Clay area, maybe even IN one of those areas, that caused this team from Florida (that lost less than 4 games TOTAL to NATIONALLY RANKED teams and their average margin of victory was over 30 points) to ALMOST lose to a team that WASN'T EVEN COMPETITIVE in the region. These officials called 3 walks in a row. Two of the walks they called were against players that DIDN'T HAVE THE BALL.

Also two personal fouls (NOT TECHNICALS) were called on players who were on the bench!

Eventually, this Florida team was losing by 3-4 points and their star player (I think he ended up going to Duke) shot two straight 3's from a step inside half court to win. (The previous 2-3 possessions were the times they called walks, so he had to shoot far away or they would have probably called a walk.)

It made me sick to watch it! I think a team that was NOT involved in the game but was taping it for scouting, turned it into the KHSAA and I have not seen two of the referees since. I don't think they were removed, but I have not seen them since.

That is a VERY rare case, but it was CERTAINLY an example of officials trying to help a KY team win this game and play a KY team for the championships of this tournament.

Let me wrap this up by saying, MOST officials are good and they DO care if they have done well or not. I know an official from the 13th region that watches his games on WAZOO sports and tries to find his mistakes. That is an honorable official.

Also, let me thank everyone for keeping this thread fairly respectable. I have seen threads like this on other forums CLOSED WAAAAAY before this. I believe this is a good thread and people are respecting each other AND officials. Just remember the referees are HUMANS, MOMS/DADS, HARD-WORKERS and LOVERS of the GAME. They would not go through the abuse if it was not for the love of the game.

I can't answer to the game you are referring but no official should do that and the KHSAA should ban them from officiating, IF this was found to be true. All too often fans blame the referees and, granted there are some who need improvement but most give it their all and continuously try to improve their craft - your example of the 13th Region offical is an excellent one. As you said, referees are human too and will make mistakes but 99% of the mistakes are unintentional. There are times though that the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost could officiate a game and the fans would still find fault. :biggrin:

Excellent post lwc. :Thumbs:

[nature boy]

So, let me get this straight, you don't care who wins but you are prepared to accuse every referee in the 15th Region of cheating. I am trying to understand your logic, are you saying that the referees conspire at the beginning of the season to determine who the district champions and the region champions will be? Are you saying these referees, most of whom have families, intentionally cheat kids? For what purpose, for what reason, and what evidence do you have?

i have no ties to either schools, just went to watch a bb game and very dissapointed, i think the refs kept Belfry in it all night every trip down the floor #12 was shooting freethrows and i know #3 and #10 for pc was getting fouled also and no call so take it how u want to and i hope the #3 from Belfry is ok she hurt her shoulder.

[Joe Friday]

i have no ties to either schools, just went to watch a bb game and very dissapointed, i think the refs kept Belfry in it all night every trip down the floor #12 was shooting freethrows and i know #3 and #10 for pc was getting fouled also and no call so take it how u want to and i hope the #3 from Belfry is ok she hurt her shoulder.

In future, think before you speak and realize you can't demean or tar everyone with the same brush. If you are not a referee, don't assume you know better than the officials because you have a different view of what call 'should' have been made. That said, I certainly hope the kid from Belfry is okay also, I don't like seeing any kids get hurt playing sports. I hope you enjoy your next ball game. :Thumbs:

[nature boy]

i did not demean anyone and i have been a referee baseball,basketball,and football so i know what i am talking about, it is not a view it is was pretty d**n obouvis everyone in the gym booed them, pc and belfry fans but they cost PC the game pure and simple i am done with this, thanks for your comments and u r entilted to your opinon have a great day.

[LWC]

Everyone has done very well with their comments so far. Just keep up the cleanliness in this forum because I am watching.

Again, everyone is doing well, so don't worry.

[Captain Backdoor]

Let me say this. I appreciate you taking up for the referees. Usually on forums like this, they have nobody on their side. There are MANY GREAT referees across the state. Certain regions are better than others.

With that said, it would be blindingly inaccurate to say that there are not referees out there that try to help Kentucky teams beat out of state teams.

I remember a Nationally ranked team a few years back came into an area VERY close to Somerset/Rockcastle/Laurel/Clay area, maybe even IN one of those areas, that caused this team from Florida (that lost less than 4 games TOTAL to NATIONALLY RANKED teams and their average margin of victory was over 30 points) to ALMOST lose to a team that WASN'T EVEN COMPETITIVE in the region. These officials called 3 walks in a row. Two of the walks they called were against players that DIDN'T HAVE THE BALL.

Also two personal fouls (NOT TECHNICALS) were called on players who were on the bench!

Eventually, this Florida team was losing by 3-4 points and their star player (I think he ended up going to Duke) shot two straight 3's from a step inside half court to win. (The previous 2-3 possessions were the times they called walks, so he had to shoot far away or they would have probably called a walk.)

It made me sick to watch it! I think a team that was NOT involved in the game but was taping it for scouting, turned it into the KHSAA and I have not seen two of the referees since. I don't think they were removed, but I have not seen them since.

That is a VERY rare case, but it was CERTAINLY an example of officials trying to help a KY team win this game and play a KY team for the championships of this tournament.

Let me wrap this up by saying, MOST officials are good and they DO care if they have done well or not. I know an official from the 13th region that watches his games on WAZOO sports and tries to find his mistakes. That is an honorable official.

Also, let me thank everyone for keeping this thread fairly respectable. I have seen threads like this on other forums CLOSED WAAAAAY before this. I believe this is a good thread and people are respecting each other AND officials. Just remember the referees are HUMANS, MOMS/DADS, HARD-WORKERS and LOVERS of the GAME. They would not go through the abuse if it was not for the love of the game.

You wouldn't happen to be talking about the McCreary Central tournament would you?

[Creeker]

i have no ties to either schools, just went to watch a bb game and very dissapointed, i think the refs kept Belfry in it all night every trip down the floor #12 was shooting freethrows and i know #3 and #10 for pc was getting fouled also and no call so take it how u want to and i hope the #3 from Belfry is ok she hurt her shoulder.

I'm not saying refs are "cheating", but this can be said for a good many places in the eastern kentucky area. I know of many games I've watched that the only way the home team stayed in the game was due to the refs... both girls and boys games alike. Again... not to say the refs are "cheating", but I do believe they can easily keep a team in the game.

[Joe Friday]

i did not demean anyone and i have been a referee baseball,basketball,and football so i know what i am talking about, it is not a view it is was pretty d**n obouvis everyone in the gym booed them, pc and belfry fans but they cost PC the game pure and simple i am done with this, thanks for your comments and u r entilted to your opinon have a great day.

Hey, since you are a referee, you know that if both sides are booing you, you are pretty much calling it equally. However, even the best referee has an off night.

[Lucky7]

Without officials who would you blame for losses?

[LWC]

Without officials who would you blame for losses?

The field goal kicker hh: :biggrin:

[Hitters_Count]

In response to the comment about "if you have evidence of cheating, send it to KHSAA" I have been involved with sports most all of my life and have seen excellent officials and have seen very poor officials. Seems we are seeing more and more of the poor ones. If an official wants to, he/she can cheat and there will be little to no evidence to prove it(concrete evidence that is). The lack of calls or being inconsistant at different ends of the court is a very easy way to change the balance of the game in one teams favor.

I hate to keep the focus on the 13th region, but I have watched a couple of dozen games in this region and have seen officials completely take a teams top 1-2 players out of the game due to foul calls and allow the other teams top 1-2 players to do the same thing without calling a foul. Concrete evidence of cheating? no, swaying the game in one teams favor? yes.

Lets look back at the NBA official that did this for a long time and would have continued to do so if friends hadn't turned him in. To say that officials cant change the game is ridiculous, it happens at all levels from 3/4 grade leagues to the pros! :devilflam

[Basketball Wizzard]

The 13th Region proved again tonight why they have the worst officials in the state. The 3 officials that called the Corbin/Whitley boys and girls games were clearly biased and never tried to hide who they were calling the games in favor of. You guessed it....Corbin. The films of these games should be forwarded to KHSAA for review and action against the officials. The radio announcers said it was one of the worst displays of biased officiating in favor of the home team they had ever witnessed. These officials caused the better team to lose (Girls game). Something has to be done to stop the blatent cheating that is occurring right in front of everyones faces. These officials are out of control and are determining who wins and who loses the games, it is no longer the players.......

[nature boy]

The 13th Region proved again tonight why they have the worst officials in the state. The 3 officials that called the Corbin/Whitley boys and girls games were clearly biased and never tried to hide who they were calling the games in favor of. You guessed it....Corbin. The films of these games should be forwarded to KHSAA for review and action against the officials. The radio announcers said it was one of the worst displays of biased officiating in favor of the home team they had ever witnessed. These officials caused the better team to lose (Girls game). Something has to be done to stop the blatent cheating that is occurring right in front of everyones faces. These officials are out of control and are determining who wins and who loses the games, it is no longer the players.......

the game between PC and Belfry was very bad also last night, i wish these coaches would send the game films in because these officals also determined who won this game.

[Ring'Em Up]

the game between PC and Belfry was very bad also last night, i wish these coaches would send the game films in because these officals also determined who won this game.

:thatsfunn

This is the same guy who claimed to have no ties to either school in an earlier post, yet 90% of his posts are about Pike Central, down to schedules, congratulations, and who was playing in what camps on what day and such. What else...the only games he whines about are Pike Central losses. If you're gonna cry and slobber around about something, at least don't blatantly lie about it 3 posts earlier. All that does is discredit your "all officials are cheats" crusade, when first you show bias then lie about it as well. According to him, Pike Central losses are pre-determined by the officials that they are not gonna let Pike Central win. Typical.

[wildcats fan]

Good point there. Bell County went to the Free Throw line alot but some of them times Bell shouldn't of went to the Free Throw line.